Is the NSX becoming too expensive?

[jaytip]

Now i know owners are going to start getting defensive here and say no they are not, but let me explain why i have posted this subject.

I like Honda's,my wife currently drives a Jazz which is the sixth Honda i have owned(three of them being NSX's) but the recent sale of James' car (my third NSX) has got me thinking,are the NA2 NSX's now too expensive?

I bought my first NSX back 10 years ago because there was nothing else out there that could match it in terms of build quality,looks,performance,rarity,but ALSO price. Both my NA1 cars were very good value and my facelift car was good value as well. Now the price just seems to have rocketed.

While many on here would not agree,there are thousands out there (including myself and a lot of journalists) that believe the R8 is the spiritual successor to the NSX.Everyday usability,performance,cheap maintenance cost's (compered to the Italians) etc,etc. The fact that you can now pick up a manual R8 THOUSANDS of £££ cheaper than an NSX, is, to me at least,astonishing.

I know the R8 isn't as nice to look at as the NSX is, but i have never read a bad review about one,and when it comes to performance it beats the NSX in every department,so it begs the question,Why are people paying what they are for the newer NSX's.If it's to be kept as a garage queen in the hope of values increasing even further,then it breaks my heart,because the first one i owned was my daily driver and it was used in ALL weather,as Honda intended it to be,and if it's going to be used regularly,then surely as milage climbs the value will drop? What is it going to be like sourcing parts,come 5-10 years time?

While i love the NSX,at the price they are going for now,if i had that sort of money,something else (R8,GTR??) would be sitting on my drive.

Regards,

Ivor.

[Sudesh]

I never really get into these types of things as there are alwys so many inconclusive replies.

For me the R8 doesn't feel overlay special, I think it looks good and it is quick, but getting into one is like sitting in other Audi models, there is also allot more R8s on the market and on the road, than NSXs, so the value will always drop on the R8.

The rare aspect is always there with the NSX. Then you have all it's legendary background.

Now this is a bit on the extreme side, but look at the MCLaren F1, over £500k when new, today over £2million! F40 was a similar situation.

[Papalazarou]

Cats and dogs Ivor. Why do people buy 308's, 328's, 964 RS, 355's and so on? Perhaps because it represents an era of car design they really appreciate. Because some of these cars are iconic. The above do not fit my criteria. But I watched Magnum as a kid and will always love the way the 80's middleweight F cars look and sound.
Sure much of the new stuff is fantastic, but it doesn't make it more desirable. Personally I think the R8's pretty ugly and I don't see it as something to aspire to. I also don't really care what journalist decide to love or hate. Especially with their usual sloppy, unresearched rehashes and u-turns.
I take your point that these cars need to be driven, and the driving habits of owners will be changed as the result of rising prices. But isn't that the fate of most iconic cars?
In Japan these cars have been treasured much longer and demand considerably higher values than in the UK. Look at how many UK cars have been exported to HK.
Personally, I think it was inevitable the prices would increase. The NSX deserves it's place equally as much as all the greats of the past 20 years. Arguably moreso than most.
And as for having an R8 or a GTR on your drive. Again, cats and dogs. I wouldn't chastise you for buying either, they just don't float my boat.

Cheers,

James.

[NoelWatson]

Purchase price is just a small part of total running costs, especially during the current times while the Government is bailing out the public (money "lost" in savings is negligible)

Firstly, you have the warranty costs (these are premium german cars so I wouldn't run one without - apparently 2k pa)

http://www.r8talk.com/forums/60-maintenance-service/8068-uk-audi-extended-warranty-cost.html


You may also have to put money aside to cover the inlet valve cleaning as I'm not sure it would be covered under warranty, and I would want to maintain the power the car is supposed to have.

[goldnsx]

You can't break it over the perfomance bar. Moreover this, I don't trust the review of magazines clustered with adds.

It needed over 20 years and a successor until people realized what effort Honda undertook to build this car. It's quite seldom that a manufacturer does this enormous effort while calculating no gain or even a big loss. People like this idea. With a few options (more power etc.) the NSX comes very close today's cars.

The NSX never had a big snob-price-effect like the F-cars until now. Prices are stable and good ones sell very fast since last year. Prices have been very low before.

R8, 911, M3 etc. are good cars but nothing to replace a modified NSX. Monthly, there's a story on prime of people coming back to the NSX after driving several other sportscars.

[Tokyo-Joe]

Rarity and history will keep the prices up up and away (hopefully)!

[Nick Graves]

I agree about the hacks - they are clearly on the take effectively. Also, most of the modern meeja studies bunch haven't a clue about car design and the likes of Pomeroy and Setright are no more. Combine the two, and the result is a sort of closet-gay german worship that seems a little creepy if one stands back & looks from afar.

The NSX is a very rare beast. Thus prices will more likely tend to double every decade from now on. But that's as much due to the dalliances of Helicopter Ben Bernanke and the rest of the lunatics in charge of the asylum.

As someone who finds modern Hondas about as depressing as most other moderns, I'll stick with the old ones, thanks.

[markc]

I think James summed it rather well :)

My 2'penneth...

If we haven't already, we should stop thinking of the NSX as a current car and comparing it to new ones. It's overall performance, not just straight line speed, was surpassed some time ago and to compare it with the latest 911, R8, GT-R etc is a bit pointless as well as unfair. Remember that there's very little overall performance difference between a 1990 and a 2005 car.

I've been saying for a while that the NSX has moved to "classic" status i.e. collect-able and intended for occasional use. While you certainly can use one as a daily driver fewer and fewer people will and most classic car buyers own several cars, often several classics.

As a classic ownership proposition it makes a lot of sense. Interesting, beautifully engineered, nice to drive, comfortable room for 2 plus luggage, reliable, relatively cheap to run, relatively exclusive but still available if you're prepared to wait, perfect for attending motoring events or holiday touring... wot's not too like :cool:

As a classic it will be competing with both with it's '90s peers such as the 964 and 993 Porsches, F348 and 355 Ferrari's, R33 and R34 Skylines etc but also established classics like the XK and E-Type Jags, Elans, Austin Healeys, early 911s etc. It's position in this pecking order and therefore the price they command is still being established but seems to be finding itself at the moment. I do think the differential between good examples of early and late cars will narrow as even late ones get "leggy" and beyond 10yrs old.

One thing needed to keep demand high and values up is a good owners club and parts/servicing support. For the moment we have this forum, HUK, mainly US based specialists (SOS, Dali) and the mighty Kaz. Let's hope this continues :)

Cheers

Mark

[scottg]

Provenance is part of the key to the NSX. Any car that has a great story and is produced in limited numbers has a good chance of evolving into a classic and prices climb accordingly.

I have watched prices increase on the likes of the 190SL mercedes that was the poor mans 300sl gullwing. I remember saying to my dad that they were cheap and I tough they would start to become more desirable, now you would be lucky to get one for 40k and yet they were never rated. Another interesting one is the Delorean, not a good car and it has parts issues but the film history and back story around the government funding have drawn interest and look at the values increasing. Aston Martin DB5. My dad had one when I was a kid and sold it for about 35k just before they started to rocket, that car today is worth 300k. The DB6 which was always thought of as the poor relation is now 150k plus.

We all know the NSX story and the Senna link.

I think our money is safe.

[AR]

The real issue is that it is not a classic yet and there are more generally desireable cars of the period. As Mark pointed out it is not fair to compare it to modern cars. So it is at best in between stages. It needs another 10 years to mature IMHO, that is if they let us drive petrol cars then!!!

[Papalazarou]

The real issue is that it is not a classic yet and there are more generally desireable cars of the period. As Mark pointed out it is not fair to compare it to modern cars. So it is at best in between stages. It needs another 10 years to mature IMHO, that is if they let us drive petrol cars then!!!

I think the early cars are just passing into classic status. Certainly they already qualify for classic insurance.
When you say there are more generally desirable cars of the period, surely that's down to personal choice again? Or do you mean what is in your opinion broadly accepted as being more desirable?
The mainstream products will always have a greater market, simply because there are more and because of the badge they wear. But on the face of it, most of the 'more desirable' cars are expensive and fragile and see less road time than the NSX.

Cheers,

James.

[AR]

I think the early cars are just passing into classic status. Certainly they already qualify for classic insurance.
When you say there are more generally desirable cars of the period, surely that's down to personal choice again? Or do you mean what is in your opinion broadly accepted as being more desirable?
The mainstream products will always have a greater market, simply because there are more and because of the badge they wear. But on the face of it, most of the 'more desirable' cars are expensive and fragile and see less road time than the NSX.

Cheers,

James.

James generally means generally, other cars were more desirable, otherwise the NSX would have sold in greater numbers.

[mjames75]

I Guess people can demand a high price for the NSX as there simply just aren't more than one or two for sale at any given time. People claim to put a 'market value' on cars but the fact is if all NSX owners put them up for sale for 75k and someone wanted one that much...they would have to find a way. I guess even if the car may not be 'classic status' yet, it certainly has an iconic one.

Some cars will go up in value, some cars will go down, depending on condition,milage etc,after purchasing James' lovely example if it goes up in value then thats a bonus, however the fact is, its great to own one and drive it whenever!

Mike

[gumball]

The real issue is that it is not a classic yet and there are more generally desireable cars of the period. As Mark pointed out it is not fair to compare it to modern cars. So it is at best in between stages. It needs another 10 years to mature IMHO, that is if they let us drive petrol cars then!!!

Can't think of a more desirable car without spending over £40K

Obsolete + desirable = classic in my book. :bigsmile:

[PeteM]

Have to also disagree with you on that point Ary, my 91 is a modern classic in mine and the insurance companys opinion and therefore insured as such. The later cars however I would agree are not classics yet but thats purely down to age in my opinion. I would say there is nothing more desireable of that period (early 90's) but late noughties may be a couple I suppose.

Now 80's and early 90's cars are starting to get classic status, take my other toy (Mk2 Golf Gti 16v) these are now near classic status and how many do you see on the road, same for the old Fords XR3i's RS Turbos etc. I am not saying these are good cars just mearly sometimes the lack of cars left make these more desierable and push up prices. Look how much original Mk2 golf Gti's sell for it's staggering! This is the same effect thats happening to the Nsx, the only difference is that it is a bloody good car.

In this current world of computer controlled cars and electric motors, I personally would take a non-assisted pure drivers car over a modern interferring example anyday. The overall package that the Nsx gives is pretty hard to beat and more people are now realising this in comparrison to other so called desierable cars.

Cheers Pete.

[AR]

Guys is not me saying it the fact remains that the NSX did not sell in the numbers Honda expected.

I am not saying the NSX is rubbish, but time takes it's toll on everything as well, most early NSX have not been well maintained or pampered for their entire life.

We only need to head over to the common faults thread for a quick reminder that the NSX is far from the perfect car a lot current owners profess it to be.

[PeteM]

We only need to head over to the common faults thread for a quick reminder that the NSX is far from the perfect car a lot current owners profess it to be.

True there is no such thing as a perfect car they all have their design flaws the only thing is the Nsx's are well known and mostly preventable with good maintenance. For a hand built car they are pretty good especially when stood next to anything hand built in italy !

There must be an attraction to them for what ever reason, you still post on this forum and you haven't owned one for a while, yet you still want to pass on your knowledge and experiance for the benefit of others.

It's an exclusive club !

Cheers

Pete.

[NSXGB]

Just wish the prices of the pop ups would rise at the same rate...

[Senninha]

There are currently 135 R8's for sale on PH from £43k ... is it any wonder this mass produced sports car is loosing value yr on yr ... and if you dont have the right options from day one you can expect to enter freefall far quicker!

And lets not forget that there will be ex NSX owners looking at prices today and thinking that it is now unlikely they will own another as prices have moved north ... but they acknowledge it looks a sensible purchase if they can

With James' sold (easy to know why) there are currently only 3 NSX on the same site and one of those is registered and the other 2 are autos

I cant think why NSX prices are going up ... anyone able to advise?

[nobby]

LIVE FOR THE HERE AND NOW and DRIVE THESE WONDERFUL MACHINES!!!

you may not be around to wax lyrical about how much your NSX is worth. Such is life I'm afraid ... I enjoy mine when I can so should all of you.

:)

[AR]

And lets not forget that there will be ex NSX owners looking at prices today and thinking that it is now unlikely they will own another as prices have moved north ... but they acknowledge it looks a sensible purchase if they can


There will be those Paul, no doubt! There will also be ex owners laughing at the current owners of their cars for their lack of due diligence.

A lack of supply does not automatically create a demand!

[bernev]

As always, a mix of feelings. I'm just glad I got mine (my third) in 2005 when I did a direct swap for my then three year old (2000 mile) ZM coupe. I thought that after my second (NA2) had been written off that would be it NSX wise. While i loved the breadvan for being wacky and unusual, when I saw the opportunity to buy a 7000 mile NSX (a then nine year old NA1 manual) I had no hesitation but to take it. It was over book but I figured that you rarely get a low mileage totally as new car very often and I thought a straight swap was pretty good. But why, given that the NSX was old, technically outclassed, and I had had two before it? Because it is such a fantastic car and i knew that one day it's time would come. and it is. It is extremely well built and feels special every time you look at it, get in it, and drive it. The bollocks about the interior being out of date is rubbish, but i agree a bit less hard plastics would be good! It is now becoming increasingly collectible and as others have said before me here, there comes a time when cars cease to be every day cars and move into the reserve. it evens happens with cortinas. That time has come for the NSX. It will become a staple in octane and Classic car not Autocar, and the buyers guides will trot out the same old guff but the prices will steadily increase. The price of the NSX will never be this low again, so buy now. and those that have not been through the "jaguar syndrome" will be even more desired, given tha cost of bringing these cars to optimum health. So, keep your cars, use them sparingly, have fun and be thankful you didn't buy a 911 or a Vantage. If it had done (a 911) it would be near valueless. On the other hand, i would not sell my now 10000 miles NSX for less than £40k and even then probably wouldn't. It's always better to buy the weird choice.

[SILVER BULLET]

I think most of us here did not buy our brilliant NSX's to make a profit ,did we ! I enjoy taking my car to various CLASSIC CAR shows here in the south west as people just don't see these rare and special cars in these parts, it always attracts great interest. There is virtually no snobbery with the ownership of an NSX and it turns heads wherever you are.

I have owned my car for over 5 years now and I still feel so privileged every time that I jump in, start that amazing engine and pootle out of the garage and on to the open road, every journey is accompanied by admiring glances, acknowledgements and even having photo's taken.

'Beauty is in the eye of the beholder' they say, so whether it is an American muscle car,well built German/French sports car or an Italian super car that 'Floats your Boat' so be it,however, I really don't understand ex owners posting negative comments here about alleged unwarranted rising values as it just sounds like sour grapes from where im sitting, just be happy:) for those here who are lucky enough to own these fantastic APPRECIATING cars,

Ian

[AR]

I have not seen any negative comments about the cars. Just never ceases to amaze me that a lot of owners think that they are seating on an investment when in reality they have a car that has more air miles than the retired space shuttle. As the cars become rarer more thorough inspections will be carried out an a few "why the long face" moments will be had.

[TheSebringOne]

As Mark stated, I could not agree more with his comments.

[m666 edd]

Supply & Demand.

There's easily enough demand vs supply. What this tells you is that they are desireable enough for this to happen even if the amount of people that like them are slim vs other marques. Lack of production sales in count for nothing on todays market.

[scottg]

Interesting debate but I think we all bought our cars as that's our passion. Having something interesting in the garage to take out on good days, polish and enjoy is what it is about for me and if it gains in value great, if it dosn't then so be it. I don't smoke, go to the football or chase other women (because I'm not allowed) so what else am I going to spend my hard earned on.:D

[jaytip]

I really don't understand ex owners posting negative comments here about alleged unwarranted rising values as it just sounds like sour grapes from where im sitting, Ian
I am guessing as the thread starter that this is aimed at me,so i will address the "sour grapes" issue first. I sold my last NSX,not because i had to,but because i chose to.It was getting very little use and an opportunity to accuire a building plot with planning permission for a 5 bedroom house came on the market for just 30K so i sold the NSX and bought that.In terms of investment,it will return me FAR more than my NSX ever would,so no,no sour grapes.

Regards my initial post,i think people are missing my point. I buy a car based on,amongst other things,value for money. When i bought my first NSX it represented a relatively cheap,worry free entry into the junior supercar market.I know there are members on here who live and breathe Honda-i don't. Do i like the brand? absolutley,Honda make a very reliable car,and that's why i chose an NSX over an Esprit when i wanted a car from that segment of the market.

The whole classic car status and Ayrton Senna conections mean nothing to me,again i don't buy vehicles based on who helped develop them, and the fact the may be considered classic.I buy a car i like based on,value for money (figuratively speaking) performance,looks and reliability.THAT is why i made the comparison to the R8,because at this moment in time it represents the same thing.There is no other car out there with the same platform layout to compere the NSX to.Ferrari are too expensive and fragile,and Lotus are not as refined and are too fragile.

The 3 NSX's i bought represented good value for money TO ME. Even the 04 was priced very competatively compered to others of the same year at the time of sale. TO ME, it no longer represents that,the game has moved on,and there are better bang for your bucks cars of the same layout out there.

I have owned 3 NSX's and loved every minute of ownership of all 3, but i would not return to the NSX if i was again in the market for such a car,because as i said,the game has moved on,and the NSX is now too expensive for what it is,TO ME. Please don't misunderstand me,i hope you all enjoy your cars as much as you can,they are fantastic cars, they are just not an ownership propostion for me any more due to their rapidly rising prices.

Regards,

Ivor.

[jaytip]

There are currently 135 R8's for sale on PH from £43k ... is it any wonder this mass produced sports car is loosing value yr on yr
Paul, i really don't think Honda wanted to limit the amount of NSX's they built,they simply didn't have the demand. I belive if the demand had been there (as it is with the R8) the NSX would still be in production now and the values would be lower than they currently are. Have a look on pistonheads at the amount of 997 911's for sale,and suddenly the R8 seems rare.

Regards,

Ivor

[scottg]

I am guessing as the thread starter that this is aimed at me,so i will address the "sour grapes" issue first. I sold my last NSX,not because i had to,but because i chose to.It was getting very little use and an opportunity to accuire a building plot with planning permission for a 5 bedroom house came on the market for just 30K so i sold the NSX and bought that.In terms of investment,it will return me FAR more than my NSX ever would,so no,no sour grapes.

Regards my initial post,i think people are missing my point. I buy a car based on,amongst other things,value for money. When i bought my first NSX it represented a relatively cheap,worry free entry into the junior supercar market.I know there are members on here who live and breathe Honda-i don't. Do i like the brand? absolutley,Honda make a very reliable car,and that's why i chose an NSX over an Esprit when i wanted a car from that segment of the market.

The whole classic car status and Ayrton Senna conections mean nothing to me,again i don't buy vehicles based on who helped develop them, and the fact the may be considered classic.I buy a car i like based on,value for money (figuratively speaking) performance,looks and reliability.THAT is why i made the comparison to the R8,because at this moment in time it represents the same thing.There is no other car out there with the same platform layout to compere the NSX to.Ferrari are too expensive and fragile,and Lotus are not as refined and are too fragile.

The 3 NSX's i bought represented good value for money TO ME. Even the 04 was priced very competatively compered to others of the same year at the time of sale. TO ME, it no longer represents that,the game has moved on,and there are better bang for your bucks cars of the same layout out there.

I have owned 3 NSX's and loved every minute of ownership of all 3, but i would not return to the NSX if i was again in the market for such a car,because as i said,the game has moved on,and the NSX is now too expensive for what it is,TO ME. Please don't misunderstand me,i hope you all enjoy your cars as much as you can,they are fantastic cars, they are just not an ownership propostion for me any more due to their rapidly rising prices.

Regards,

Ivor.

You clearly have an eye for a bargain Ivor. A building plot with planning for a 5 bed house for 30k sounds fantastic compaired to what that would cost in Dorset ( ad another 0)

[Nick Graves]

:D There's usually a reason something's cheap! Seriously though, good luck with the build. Got the T-shirt on that one an it ain't easy in the current market.

For some of us, the NSX was the ultimate step into the supercar market, having dismissed most of the others as poorly-engineerd POS. Even the R8; basically a decent car which is likely to depreciate massively and suffer from the usual Audi lousy reliability. Then there's the image...

Rather used to/spoiled by normal *** Crap running costs, the NSX's potential ones are something one has to enter into with one's eyes wide open.

[jaytip]

You clearly have an eye for a bargain Ivor. A building plot with planning for a 5 bed house for 30k sounds fantastic compaired to what that would cost in Dorset ( ad another 0)
When i eventually get into gear on it,this is going on there.

[WhyOne?]

What a potential minefield!

OK, my 2p's worth.........

Is the NSX a 'classic car'? I think it probably is, but how do you define 'classic car' - is it just an old car? Austin Allegro anyone?

I would say as car has to be out of production to be regarded as a classic, but this is clearly not enough on its own.

Does it have necessarily have to be a 'good' car? I would argue not - I think the original Beetle would be regarded as a classic, and whilst interesting, is certainly not a good car by most measures.

IMHO, for a car to be regarded as a 'classic' has to be out of production, engender respect, have an enduring appeal and be regarded with affection.

I think the NSX fits my definition quite well. The fact that the car appears regularly in features in classic car magazines, is welcome at classic car shows and that values are appreciating, further confirms the cars 'classic' status in my mind.

I think the argument that because the car did not sell in large numbers it is not a classic is a peculiar one.

I do not for a second question the notion that NSX sales figures (especially in Europe) would have been a disappointment to Honda. The reasons for this have been discussed at length here on more than one occasion, but I believe the consensus view is that the dominant reasons for this were less to do with the cars quality and far more to do with Honda not exactly being renowned for producing high performance, mid-engined sports cars. That, and the NSX being similarly priced to 'high status' products from Ferrari & Porsche. So when new, there was an argument for the NSX being too expensive (though I believe Honda lost money on each car sold, so they may argue to the contrary!)

I think that the fact the car sold in small numbers and with the passing of time has been increasingly recognised for what it is - a brilliantly engineered car built exceptionally well from (mainly!) high quality materials and components which is no where near as expensive an ownership prospect as its contemporaries.

I believe the appreciation of the car has grown over the years, leading to an increasing number of people considering buying one. I am sure that it is quite a small number of people who are seriously looking to buy an NSX, but cruciall, there are more people looking than there are good cars available. Hence the rising prices.

It's simple supply and demand. The market dictates the price, and as James's car illustrated, these cars are not 'too expensive'.

This situation may change for any number of reasons over time, but I would be surprised.

[jaytip]

:D There's usually a reason something's cheap! Seriously though, good luck with the build. Got the T-shirt on that one an it ain't easy in the current market.
It was a repossession,plus the plot is on a slope so a lot of money will be lost in the ground.Add in the fact that house prices are generally a lot less in the S Wales valleys and you start to see why it is the price it is. Still a lot of profit in it though when it is finished.

[m666 edd]

When i eventually get into gear on it,this is going on there.

Having worked at a timber a frame company for quite some time drawing up a crazy amount of custom houses, worked at an architects firm for a couple of years and currently working a bit more in the commercial side of construction I'd love to be in the position to build my own home.

I'd certainly not have much trouble in the design side of things! Good luck.

[scottg]

It was a repossession,plus the plot is on a slope so a lot of money will be lost in the ground.Add in the fact that house prices are generally a lot less in the S Wales valleys and you start to see why it is the price it is. Still a lot of profit in it though when it is finished.

Good luck with the build Ivor. The cost of disposing of the excavated material can be frightening. We remodeled our home and managed to grade the garden to lose alot of the earth, either that or find a friendly farmer who will let you dispose of your spoils.

[Nick Graves]

The busybody zombies don't like you re-levelling the landscape, but that's the best way of 'losing' it.

It's if you're into serious piling that the eyes begin to water.

(that doesn't read quite right, does it?)

[328]

Nice design!

If you need any advice please feel free to give me a shout. Though I dont have much experience in Wales I have been a Chartered Archtiect now for many years working in both commercial and residential. Now running my own business for residential private Clients.

Good luck with everything. The main criteria I would always put in is garage and more garage space :)

Cheers,

Andy

P.S. kind of moving this original discussion off topic....





It was a repossession,plus the plot is on a slope so a lot of money will be lost in the ground.Add in the fact that house prices are generally a lot less in the S Wales valleys and you start to see why it is the price it is. Still a lot of profit in it though when it is finished.

[AR]

So in sum, NSX prices are what they are and owners are happy, Ivor is happy with his money in bricks and mortar and I am still waiting for the next NSX or a nice place abroad.

All is happy in NSX land...

But what is Papa getting next, that is the question.

[Senninha]

.........But what is Papa getting next, that is the question.....

Now that's a whole new thread of its own!!! ;)

It will be a project in one shape or another for sure ....

[scottg]

The busybody zombies don't like you re-levelling the landscape, but that's the best way of 'losing' it.

It's if you're into serious piling that the eyes begin to water.

(that doesn't read quite right, does it?)

I know the costs associated with piling Nick as I had a small extention at the front of our house and had to have Ppiled foundations to avoid damaging tree roots. Even after negotiating it was 3 times the price of a normal strip foundation. I would understand it but the trees where so far away the canopy of the tree was not over the new part of the build so it was over kill but councils love to spend other peoples money.

[havoc]

I think I see what the OP is saying - compared to modern cars of similar performance / capability / looks / packaging, the NSX is very expensive. Boxster-S / Cayman-S, 350/370Z, Z4M, Evora, etc. All offer at least equivalent performance and practicality without significantly higher running costs, yet are substantially newer, £ for £ - why go for the older car, doesn't make sense, eh???

But by the same comparison a 993 or 348/355 is even more expensive, an E-Type is absurdly priced, and a DB5/6 even more so. And then things get really silly...

The NSX is properly entering classic car status now, and that is why prices are rising - they're no longer measured by mere utility, but by the nebulous nature of the classic car market and the rose-tints that a lot of owners/buyers wear (the rest are there "for the investment opportunity" (sic) ). For me, a good NA1 is still worth an easy £20k when you look at what else that money will get you - but that's me - I understand why someone would go for the newer car instead.

I CAN see why £50k for a late, mint NA2 could be seen as taking the mickey, viewed in the context of the UK market alone. But when you compare to Japanese / HK / Singapore prices, even that £50k is simply a market-driven value. I'd love to own a late-model E30 M3 or an original Lotus Elan, just for a while, just to see what the fuss is about. But I'd need a 2nd mortgage for either one now, and viewed like that it doesn't make sense to me.


It's a sliding scale and everyone's got their point on the scale where they go "ahm oot"...

[SILVER BULLET]

I'm sorry to hear that so many have suffered with piles, sounds expensive and painful:eek:.

Shall we start betting on how many days/weeks it will be before Papa is back amongst the flock, I'll give him 4 to 6 weeks, also best wishes to the new owners when they collect their car from James tomorrow,

Cheers,

Ian

[Papalazarou]

I'm sorry to hear that so many have suffered with piles, sounds expensive and painful:eek:.

Shall we start betting on how many days/weeks it will be before Papa is back amongst the flock, I'll give him 4 to 6 weeks, also best wishes to the new owners when they collect their car from James tomorrow,

Cheers,

Ian


Ian,

I think it may be a little longer this time. However I hope you and Pete will be still offering passenger rides to the favorite tea stop:). My first port of call is to get the 'past owners' support group off the ground. I just feel that after all this time I need to give something back to the club.

Cheers,

James.

[ConorNZ]

Here's a lurkers POV on the subject. I am a Honda fan, love the brand and engineering, had prelude, teg and S2000 before and always aspired to the NSX. Moved to the UK 4 years ago and joined a car club, where I borrowed some nice machinery. I rated the 91 NSX manual they had on par with a Fez 550 - it felt that good.

Then 2 years later I had the cash to buy and was keen as mustard. But after a few months of looking (I was impatient) I had found a ropy yellow one and an almost mint NA2 in LBB that was only 2k more than I wanted to pay. But by that stage I had driven some other stuff, like a 360, which was a stunning car. The sense of occasion is something the NSX couldn't match, to me. BUT I didn't buy one, as the Ferraris get too much negative attention from Joe public and the risk of big bills was too high. Somehow I ended up with a mint 13,000 miler DB9 (no negative responses to Astons!) volante with a manual box, for only 4k more than the LBB NSX that had almost three times the miles. And the DB9 is still under warranty!

But I still want an NSX. I've always wanted one of Honda's finest and until I get one I won't be satisfied. Not a facelift NA2 any more, as they have got to a level where the bang for buck equation doesn't work for me, but I would pay 20k for a mint NA1, or even 35k for a pop up NA2.

So I will keep lurking and keep my eyes open. The DB9 will be up for sale soon - it's a heavy and wide beast and not as rewarding to drive as an NSX. Expect a wanted ad to follow late May. And if nothing comes of that (did I mention I'm impatient?), then I may end up in an Exige or 360 and try again next year.

[NoelWatson]

And the DB9 is still under warranty!



Surely you could've got the extended Honda warranty on the NSX??

[ConorNZ]

Perhaps, but the point was I could get an "exotic" car and not have to worry about the repair/running costs. That is one if the draw cards of the NSX- an apparent lack of big bills.

[NoelWatson]

Perhaps, but the point was I could get an "exotic" car and not have to worry about the repair/running costs. That is one if the draw cards of the NSX- an apparent lack of big bills.

Where on the depreciation curve did you buy the DB9? I guess people are happy to shell out more on the NSX as they have the perception that in a few years time they can sell it for what they paid for it - guess it become a self fulfilling prophecy

[ConorNZ]

That's a good point - nobody likes depreciation. But it is tough to avoid! Still, I think I got on at the right point and could get off without getting burnt (hmmm... that could be misinterpreted).

[havoc]

Re: depreciation vs running costs - to me they're two sides of the same coin - you're losing money either way, the only downside with running costs is it's up-front cashflow not at disposal time. Spend money maintaining and refreshing an NSX and dep'n should be ~zero (negative for an NA2 right now) - ignore it and sell a "fixer-upper" and someone who knows what parts for these cars cost is going to pull your pants down on the price.

[Rob_Fenn]

Think it is pointless comparing NSXs with modern cars these days. The prices aren't anything to do with its ability against would-be modern competitors, you are now paying for the story behind it. It is not merely a car any more, people are clearly more appreciative of its history and are willing to pay for it. I hope this means that older cars are going to caring owners, rather than people who want an NSX because its the only car they can afford that looks a bit like a Ferrari if you squint a little.

[NSX 2000]

I am guessing as the thread starter that this is aimed at me,so i will address the "sour grapes" issue first. I sold my last NSX,not because i had to,but because i chose to.It was getting very little use and an opportunity to accuire a building plot with planning permission for a 5 bedroom house came on the market for just 30K so i sold the NSX and bought that.In terms of investment,it will return me FAR more than my NSX ever would,so no,no sour grapes.

Regards my initial post,i think people are missing my point. I buy a car based on,amongst other things,value for money. When i bought my first NSX it represented a relatively cheap,worry free entry into the junior supercar market.I know there are members on here who live and breathe Honda-i don't. Do i like the brand? absolutley,Honda make a very reliable car,and that's why i chose an NSX over an Esprit when i wanted a car from that segment of the market.

The whole classic car status and Ayrton Senna conections mean nothing to me,again i don't buy vehicles based on who helped develop them, and the fact the may be considered classic.I buy a car i like based on,value for money (figuratively speaking) performance,looks and reliability.THAT is why i made the comparison to the R8,because at this moment in time it represents the same thing.There is no other car out there with the same platform layout to compere the NSX to.Ferrari are too expensive and fragile,and Lotus are not as refined and are too fragile.

The 3 NSX's i bought represented good value for money TO ME. Even the 04 was priced very competatively compered to others of the same year at the time of sale. TO ME, it no longer represents that,the game has moved on,and there are better bang for your bucks cars of the same layout out there.

I have owned 3 NSX's and loved every minute of ownership of all 3, but i would not return to the NSX if i was again in the market for such a car,because as i said,the game has moved on,and the NSX is now too expensive for what it is,TO ME. Please don't misunderstand me,i hope you all enjoy your cars as much as you can,they are fantastic cars, they are just not an ownership propostion for me any more due to their rapidly rising prices.

Regards,

Ivor.

Hi Ivor

At a guess and I am guessing you are not into classic cars.

I agree there are better bang for your buck cars out there, I have one in the form of my TT RS, but is it better than my NSX, no.

I think most people have misted your point "they are just not an ownership propostion for me any more". With the important word in that sentance being "me". As many have said before me and many will say after me, it would be a dull place if we were all liked the same things.

Paul