should it stay or should it go?

[candyman]

I am also toying with selling my tangerine dream. The joys of running a small business in this difficult climate means that I don't get much time to drive it although I managed to fill it up with petrol in a rain- free half an hour this week. Today I am off work and Cholmondely is less than an hour away but it is pouring with rain. Presumably Pistonheads would be the place to advertise. My 04 Imola beauty is a 2 owner ,a valet away from showroom condition with full supplying dealer service history, recent main service, new cambelt and battery and less than 15000 on the clock. presumably I would put it on in the late forties and see what happens. I wouldn't know how to accept payment-electronic bank transfer or bankers draft presumably. My heart says not to sell as it is so much fun and gets so much positive attention when I do get a chance to drive it and it costs so little to run with cheap insurance and my pitiful mileage. If the sun comes out as I write this , I will take it as a sign from above, It really does look stunning in the sunshine. Obviously, if I sold it and prices rose I would feel daft and I certainly can't see prices plummeting as there is still nothing like it for rarity, running costs ,fun ,and value. My Scirocco is a brilliant everyday car but when I climb into my nsx, it is like comparing chablis to champagne. Hmmmmm...It even smells nice. I am in no hurry as it is taxed, insured and serviced so will not cost me anything for a while, where is this global warming when you need it?

[manisandher]

A 2-owner 04 with <15K and in near showroom condition? I wouldn't be surprised if you get offers in the early fifties... If I didn't have mine, I would be very interested myself.

Mani.

[Sudesh]

I also would be advertising this car in the £50's!

[nobby]

personally i think you are bonkers ... and if possible hold onto it if you can!!!

wish i had the cash and take the ferry over to liverpool asap

[mjames75]

Easily advertise for 55k plus

[Papalazarou]

Definitely mid 50's now. Don't sell it short. A real enthusiast will pay the right money for the right car and that's what later cars are worth, especially with those miles and condition.

Cheers,

James.

[scottg]

I am also toying with selling my tangerine dream. The joys of running a small business in this difficult climate means that I don't get much time to drive it although I managed to fill it up with petrol in a rain- free half an hour this week. Today I am off work and Cholmondely is less than an hour away but it is pouring with rain. Presumably Pistonheads would be the place to advertise. My 04 Imola beauty is a 2 owner ,a valet away from showroom condition with full supplying dealer service history, recent main service, new cambelt and battery and less than 15000 on the clock. presumably I would put it on in the late forties and see what happens. I wouldn't know how to accept payment-electronic bank transfer or bankers draft presumably. My heart says not to sell as it is so much fun and gets so much positive attention when I do get a chance to drive it and it costs so little to run with cheap insurance and my pitiful mileage. If the sun comes out as I write this , I will take it as a sign from above, It really does look stunning in the sunshine. Obviously, if I sold it and prices rose I would feel daft and I certainly can't see prices plummeting as there is still nothing like it for rarity, running costs ,fun ,and value. My Scirocco is a brilliant everyday car but when I climb into my nsx, it is like comparing chablis to champagne. Hmmmmm...It even smells nice. I am in no hurry as it is taxed, insured and serviced so will not cost me anything for a while, where is this global warming when you need it?

If you do decide to sell Candyman read the Fraud warnings on Pistonheads first, you will get people offering to send more than the asking price if you pay the shipping and keep the change, payment via Western union, offer to meet you in the services with the cash and all the other scams. When selling a high value car I am afraid you have to be so carefull now a days so best to read the warnings first and check any funds you are paid are cleared and cannot be re claimed. Good luck with the sale.

[candyman]

thanks for your advice-with your previous toys I'm sure you have had experience in these matters.

[scottg]

thanks for your advice-with your previous toys I'm sure you have had experience in these matters.

I have Candyman, three of them have gone to foreign buyers but they have sent electronic transfers using the Swift/IBAN code for my bank and as such the funds are cleared and cannot reclaimed. The over payment scam works by sending you a cheque for over the asking price to cover shipping and somethng extra for your trouble, they even suggest you wait a week or so for the cheque to clear before you take it to the docks in Southampton and pay the shipping company to send it on its way. The international bank clearing system is so slow that it can take a few weeks for your bank to write to you to say the funds did not actually clear although they are showing in your account. By this time your car is gone and to ad insult to injury you have also paid the shipping company yourself. It must be a nightmare for people that have been caught in this way.

[AR]

Definitely mid 50's now. Don't sell it short. A real enthusiast will pay the right money for the right car and that's what later cars are worth, especially with those miles and condition.

Cheers,

James.

or an investor perhaps.

[havoc]

Aye...but even with the NSX I suspect there'll be few 'investors' shopping...their money will go into 'proper' (read older, better-badged) classics.

Bigger risk with a mint facelift is HK/Singapore/etc...lost a good few abroad these last few years...

[AR]

Aye...but even with the NSX I suspect there'll be few 'investors' shopping...their money will go into 'proper' (read older, better-badged) classics.

Bigger risk with a mint facelift is HK/Singapore/etc...lost a good few abroad these last few years...

The thing is that bubble will burst when the next Asian ( oriental ) supercar come out. The lfa is a HyperCar so is out, but the next NSX is already teaching the F150 a few lessons. If the bastids will just take my deposit :(!

[havoc]

Not convinced it will. The bubble didn't burst on the original CSL, or the E-Type, or any number of fairly-rare, classic sports cars.

I suspect NA2 prices may well 'settle down' a little, but NA1 prices will remain where they are or creep up, as buyers realise there isn't enough dissimilarity to be worth the premium once age becomes less of a factor. It'll never be a big-money classic - wrong badge/heritage - but straight examples will stay at £20k+ because of what it is - after all, the inferior 348 is easily 2x the price, like-for-like!

[AR]

Not convinced it will. The bubble didn't burst on the original CSL, or the E-Type, or any number of fairly-rare, classic sports cars.

I suspect NA2 prices may well 'settle down' a little, but NA1 prices will remain where they are or creep up, as buyers realise there isn't enough dissimilarity to be worth the premium once age becomes less of a factor. It'll never be a big-money classic - wrong badge/heritage - but straight examples will stay at £20k+ because of what it is - after all, the inferior 348 is easily 2x the price, like-for-like!

The thing is that the CSL is akin to an NSX-R but yes they will settle down.

[Papalazarou]

To me, the NSX is now firmly in the 355, GT3, 328 bracket. Prices over the lat six months have proven that these cars in the right spec and history can make strong money.
The 'bubble' that has been discussed is problematic to me because it infers that it is dependent on two factors; 1. The strength of the yen and 2. The potential effect of an NSX successor.

First of all, the NSX and the future NSX might as well be made by different manufacturers. They represent completely different approaches and the purist would rather go down on a springer spaniel than drive a car with Electric front wheels and a Vauxhall vectra nose. Furthermore, and mentioned before, the price zones are miles apart. Many of us bought our cars partly to avoid depreciation and because we couldn't afford to throw £100K at a fast depreciating money pit.
Further, if we entertain that the there is an Asian bubble. Does this mean that all the other marques will plummet equally? They are also being bought up by the affluent Asian car enthusiast.

Finally, there are other factors that must be considered; certainly in the case of the NSX there is the rarity value; this is compounded by the limited number of RHD cars produced. The reluctance of the Japanese to part with them. In fact the reluctance of UK enthusiasts to sell them on the open market.
When we combine this with the healthy regard car enthusiasts and the motoring press have for this model and the great (but often frustrating ;) owners club. I cannot see any sudden depreciation.

Cheers,

James.

P.s, for what it's worth, I hoped the new NSX would be something special. I'm as disappointed as anyone.

[Senninha]

Interestingly I was just surfing the Japanese used car sites looking at NSX values. All prices exclude shipping, taxes etc.

A year ago, the NA2 NSX-R was for sale around the 12m Yen (£96k) for the latest cleanest examples. Today, that money buys you a very rare facelift Type S or for little difference an 05 NA2. The price today of almost identical NA2 NSX-R is 22m YEN (£176k). It certainly makes the UK example a shrewd buy IMO.

What is also interesting is that the early autos have crept up. Last year £18 - £21k, today they are from £21k and there are some really lovely examples.

As always the rarest models (exc S & R variants) are the NA2 pop-ups. The ones I found ranged from £51k to £64k.

Without question the NSX has finally achieved the wider recognition many of us always felt it deserved. With this has come the added interest and the hunt for good cars from potential new owners. Excluding 5 NSX's James :rolleyes:, once people find their NSX, few are tempted to release them so the hunt becomes harder. Importing is a non starter based on the above examples.

The 'keepers' are being exposed to some wonderful maintenance by the few specialists or main dealers that we trust and this is falling in line with how other similar age classics are maintained. Its clearly the quality of the workmanship that is appreciated by current, and when the time comes, the next owner rather than the stamps in the book.

So my summary, for what its worth, is that bubble or no bubble, values have increased for the UK cars and will likely remain that way. And as the insurance companies are also supporting this as we've seen from recent renewal posts, ths NSX is currently one of the more sensible places to invest your motoring capital.

Enjoy your cars Boys and Girls!

Back to the OP question ... should you decide to sell you have to ensure that the new owner agrees to posting multiple photos every time they take it out for a drive. I for one will miss the photo records of your stunning NSX in various locations. Whats it worth ... thats down to who's writing the cheque but I'd be surprised if you don't return early to mid 50's .... all you 02 owners owe Marky a beer!

regards, Paul

[AR]

To me, the NSX is now firmly in the 355, GT3, 328 bracket. Prices over the lat six months have proven that these cars in the right spec and history can make strong money.
The 'bubble' that has been discussed is problematic to me because it infers that it is dependent on two factors; 1. The strength of the yen and 2. The potential effect of an NSX successor.

First of all, the NSX and the future NSX might as well be made by different manufacturers. They represent completely different approaches and the purist would rather go down on a springer spaniel than drive a car with Electric front wheels and a Vauxhall vectra nose. Furthermore, and mentioned before, the price zones are miles apart. Many of us bought our cars partly to avoid depreciation and because we couldn't afford to throw £100K at a fast depreciating money pit.
Further, if we entertain that the there is an Asian bubble. Does this mean that all the other marques will plummet equally? They are also being bought up by the affluent Asian car enthusiast.

Finally, there are other factors that must be considered; certainly in the case of the NSX there is the rarity value; this is compounded by the limited number of RHD cars produced. The reluctance of the Japanese to part with them. In fact the reluctance of UK enthusiasts to sell them on the open market.
When we combine this with the healthy regard car enthusiasts and the motoring press have for this model and the great (but often frustrating ;) owners club. I cannot see any sudden depreciation.

Cheers,

James.

P.s, for what it's worth, I hoped the new NSX would be something special. I'm as disappointed as anyone.


James hybrid is the new FI Lemans proved that and is here to stay.

PS those buy a car thinking about depreciation are not enthusiasts IMHO. Enthusiasts buy a car to enjoy it regardless of the value of it. The whole enthusiasm thing is heart and emotionally based. Not rational certainly not when you get into modding lol!

[Papalazarou]

James hybrid is the new FI Lemans proved that and is here to stay.

PS those buy a car thinking about depreciation are not enthusiasts IMHO. Enthusiasts buy a car to enjoy it regardless of the value of it. The whole enthusiasm thing is heart and emotionally based. Not rational certainly not when you get into modding lol!

Ary,

I'm not saying avoiding depreciation is the primary reason for buying an NSX. Only that it's a consideration.
I'm passionate about my cars, but from my personal perspective have never squandered the advantages I have been given. So I would find it very difficult to sink house money into a car that doesn't hold it's money.
A good example is the Porsche forum on PH where the OP is trying to justify the cost of a new £90K 991. Hes trying to mitigate the 'reasonable' £45k depreciation over three years! Other posters are telling him it's reasonable and that you only live once. Like that much debt and loss is a perfectly reasonable proposition for a 'middle income' earner.
My take would be that it's precisely the reason we only live once that we shouldn't get into that kind of debt or loss.
Is he any more passionate than me, because he has less self control, is comfortable to piss away the equity in his property and throw away £15k a year for the latest big thing?
To me that loss represents a lot of life opportunities.
Passion is, I understand subjective, but It's not only about what you are willing to spend or lose on a car, it's princibly what you do with it when you have it.
Some would argue that the garage queen has no passion for his cars, but perhaps his passion is to clean and perfect. The modder may rarely drive his car but his passion may be in the building, improving and changing.
At the end of the day, there are many things that inspire us. But I think that for most of us money will always be a large consideration, regardless of the other motivations that drive us.

Cheers,

James.

[WhyOne?]

Even by your high standards James, that is a very well argued and reasoned post!

[m666 edd]

Well said James.

[AR]

Well said James, still depreciation is no something I pay much attention to. I have never done is take non disposable income to buy/mod a car. I can understand some people have different priorities but if I can't afford it what is the point. I do think that if the money is there why not?

I don't smoke cigars or drink as much anymore so at Montecristo No. 2 and fine red prices I am saving a fortune for other hobbies.

I can say that I still like the NSX a lot but it does not excite me in the same way it did in the early 90s. Nor Re there many other stock cars up to 80k that do. I am always thinking that I can make it faster and more to my liking.

The next NSX will be a game changer with hybrid tech etc, but after FI It would be hard to go back to stock. I had a good think about your current car but having to get an SC an other bits to make it my way put me off. We all do different driving so we all have different needs.

Cheers,

Ary

[scottg]

The guy that is justifying a 45k loss on a Porsche over 3 years may be able to ofset this against other investmenst or business interests that allow him to indulge himself in this way.
I have always worked on the basis that if I can make money in one area I can spend it in another, whilst leaving something in reserve just in case. With two daughters growing up fast those reserves will no doubt be needed in the years to coem for Unniversity, weddings etc so I will allow myself my guilty pleasure for now and just hope that when the time comes to part with my NSX there is still a hard core of like minded enthusiasts of similar mind set. If not it's straight out to work for them and the registery office followed by a marquee in the garden and a BBQ with me doing the cooking:D

[Marky]

a 2004 NSX with low miles should be advertised at £50k - £55k dependant on colour, condition and service history. Imola is not the easiest colour to shift but it certainly looks different.

[havoc]

£15k a year? I'd have a fantastic holiday each year and pay off a chunk of the mortgage, not get yet another Porker which does more of the driving for you while giving less involvement/challenge/reward.

But then I'm with James too...

[AR]

£15k a year? I'd have a fantastic holiday each year and pay off a chunk of the mortgage, not get yet another Porker which does more of the driving for you while giving less involvement/challenge/reward.

But then I'm with James too...


45k = nice noble with plenty of go fast and stop quick bits

[Lankstarr]

15k miles ... 55k is a sensible price based on recent sales of cars I know which didn't even need to be advertised. Down talk and depreciation is nonsense; we're trying to catch up with other foreign market prices but still lagging way behind.

What other cars or assets deviate that much in value between different countries?

Facelift cars present the biggest gap to foreign prices hence will continue to rise... As long as theyre RHD and don't have silly deflectors in the wings!

L*

L*

[AR]

Well a ctsc 02 plus Acura can be had for 40k any day of the week!!!

[Rob_Fenn]

If you do sell, please keep it in the UK! Would be a shame to lose yet another UK car to a foreign market.

[TheSebringOne]

James, I could not have said that any better myself. Excellantly written.

[Nick Graves]

The guy that is justifying a 45k loss on a Porsche over 3 years may be able to ofset this against other investmenst or business interests that allow him to indulge himself in this way.
I have always worked on the basis that if I can make money in one area I can spend it in another, whilst leaving something in reserve just in case. With two daughters growing up fast those reserves will no doubt be needed in the years to coem for Unniversity, weddings etc so I will allow myself my guilty pleasure for now and just hope that when the time comes to part with my NSX there is still a hard core of like minded enthusiasts of similar mind set. If not it's straight out to work for them and the registery office followed by a marquee in the garden and a BBQ with me doing the cooking:D

Sensible fellow!

Statistically, your NSX will depreciate slower than a lot of weddings do - and also the many uni courses that result in a perfectly useless degree anyway.