wheel upgrade

[Problem Child]

I have standard 16's on the front and 17's on the back of my beloved but like the wheels below and was thinking on 17's on the front and 18's on the back. Would these fit? Whats all this "offset" stuff all about?

http://www.cartuningshop.co.uk/products/BBS-CH--Satin-Black.html

[NSXGB]

Nice rims Geoff, that crack pipe has been lit....

[Problem Child]

So much for my grand plan to keep it original. You lot are a bad influence. I am even considering a new exhaust!

So whats the score with these wheels....how do I get the right size? What should I be looking out for?

[NSXGB]

A quick search suggests an offset of around +55 front and +63 rear.
This is required to locate the wheel correctly to avoid your rim touching the suspension or wheel arch.

[britlude]

oh dear.... it's a slippery slope....

[AR]

Offset will depend on the width of the wheels. I think Rays recommends 40 offsets on the te37 best bet ask for one of the print out diagrams to check clearance.

[Senninha]

.......... I am even considering a new exhaust!...........

Geoff, have a chat with Ary, his systems has been well received by many here ... and it "looks" OEM if that helps! As a reminder, mine is made by Haywood & Scott and offer a variety of tips to choose from and can tune the sound by varying the silencer size.

Nice looking wheels, maybe too 'heavy' looking on your car in the Satin Black finish IMO. Have you considered Enkeis in an OEM style?

Once you started on the aerial it was only a matter of time ....

regards, Paul

[NSXGB]

They look grey to me in the photos, think they'd look nice.

[Problem Child]

Boohooo! Those wheels (BBS Ch range) 17s and 18s dont come with enough of an offset for the NSX!

[gumball]

They'll ruin the handling anyway... :)

[Problem Child]

Any suggestions....

should I stay 16 and 17 or go 17 and 18?

[Nick Graves]

A quick search suggests an offset of around +55 front and +63 rear.
This is required to locate the wheel correctly to avoid your rim touching the suspension or wheel arch.

That's only partially true - it's a rumour put around by the appearance-obsessed who have no appreciation of the niceties of engineering and it's become an urban myth.

The relationship to the steering axis is crucial - especially to reduce braking instability, tramlining and jounce, as well as overall finesse. This is especially true on crappy roads, which is why it matters less on racing cars.

Full explanantion here:

http://www.miata.net/garage/offset.htm

The offset you've stated is quite correct, and one ought to try to stay within 5mm or so of it. Which reduces options considerably.

Thus Mugens, Rays or the new Enkei wheels on SOS (actually for the S2000!) are the best (only!) options.

Still, the best wheels for the best car, eh?

[kingsley]

Hi Geoff,

Have a word with Hondaboy I am sure he had a set of BBS wheels on his car. Not sure what colour they were.........


Kingsley

[Rob_Fenn]

If you fit aftermarket wheels, you need to lower the car. For me, it just looks odd otherwise, especially if you go bigger. I'm not saying you need to get air bags and start wearing a backwards baseball cap, just a -30mm drop.

Certainly no harm in going a bit bigger with more modern rubber though, Tschuiya put down the handling improvement purely down to the change to a 17 inch wheel.

Personally, if you want to avoid going down the slippery slope, search for some facelift wheels or some nice rare Type S BBS rims. A fortune to buy, but they will always be worth the same money (if not more). They will suit the car without further mods.

I wouldn't be too concerned about offset (to a limit). If people are going to start worrying about getting strictly on OEM settings, then surely owners with cars on 80k+ should really think about refreshing their whole suspension system including bushes to make sure the car is exactly how Honda intended... after all, if you believe the changed offset will make the car handle worse, then the news is (by your own rules) your car must already handle like a sack of crap ;)

[Nick Graves]

Yeah - doesn't matter what the alignment settings or anything are at all either ;)

There was an interesting technical paper by Ford (Germany) which investigated the importance of offset over minor variations in caster etc and concluded its significance. I'd struggle to find it now...

[britlude]

offsets are more of an issue (handling and safety) on FWD cars. rwd have a lot more flexibility before handling adversely affected.

offsets are quoted as it makes no difference the width of the wheel, the offset will be the same, as it's measured from the centreline of the wheel width, in our case 55mm and 60mm. so yes, try to aim for these offsets, and make sure the tyre/wheel combo misses the suspension as mentioned earlier.

however most aftermarket alloys most commonly the 35mm-45mm mark (the usual requirement for the FWD brigade, and the biggest market) it's a case of checking clearances and if you like them!!!!

there was a list on NSXprime of wheel width/offsets being used across the pond

[simonprelude]

I like them, and the price.

Don't worry though "This item fits all vehicles"

[Senninha]

Geoff, if you're interested, these would fit ... :)

113421134311344

17\18" Enkei combo. they are a larger verison of the OEM early NSX-R wheels.

I use these for general use and keep my OEM rims for summer.

regards, Paul

[Hondaboy]

No idea what the offset is on my bbs wheels could check it if you like
As I didn't fit the wheels I can't even compare change in handling or ride from original can only say it's the best handling car I've driven
And mines not lowered either and really don't think it needs it
Mine are 17 and 18 with 235 width up front and 265 at the rear

[Nick Graves]

offsets are more of an issue (handling and safety) on FWD cars. rwd have a lot more flexibility before handling adversely affected.

offsets are quoted as it makes no difference the width of the wheel, the offset will be the same, as it's measured from the centreline of the wheel width, in our case 55mm and 60mm. so yes, try to aim for these offsets, and make sure the tyre/wheel combo misses the suspension as mentioned earlier.

however most aftermarket alloys most commonly the 35mm-45mm mark (the usual requirement for the FWD brigade, and the biggest market) it's a case of checking clearances and if you like them!!!!

there was a list on NSXprime of wheel width/offsets being used across the pond

It's most critical under braking and all cars stop mostly on their fronts, so it's critical to all irrespective of drive. Many also have passive RWS these days, so it's actually important on both ends too.

The trend towards zero-offset steering geometry means that more manufacturers are moving toward the +55 offset (RX-8, Toyobaru etc) which is why it why it's odd that the aftermarket mfrs. are only just starting to catch up. In fact, with its angled struts, it's probably more critical on the Toyobaru than with the NSX's very 'pure' set-up.

[Nick Graves]

I like them, and the price.

Don't worry though "This item fits all vehicles"

Hi Simon,

How did you find your GPs on the NSX?

[Problem Child]

Choice of wheels with et55 and 60 is limited so might take a bit of research.

In the meantime whats the advice on mixing tyres as the choice of manufacturers/ models on 16's and 17"'s on the sdame models is limited. Eg I fancy the Falken 452's which are getting good write ups. Can get them in 245x40x17 but not 215x45x16. Same with many other makes. Do you think its OK to have different makes on front to whats on the back?

[Senninha]

Hi Geoff,

Please do NOT mix tyre's on your beloved NSX. I've heard too many 'close encounters' stories from other owners. Mine had yoko front and bridgestone rears when I bought it, not a good mix.

Goodyears, Yokohama, bridgestone and I think Hankook should have something or you ...

Good luck

Rgds Paul

[Problem Child]

Might be in luck TWS say that their Mugello in 17x8 and 18x8 would be a fit and then put some Yokohama tyres on too.......I am awaiting details

http://www.tsw.com/alloy_wheels_mugello.php

[Senninha]

Hyper Silver look good ...

[Problem Child]

I think I agree Silver is better than black (with my red)

Is our bolt pattern 5x114.3?

They are suggesting 17x8 with 40mm offset and 18x8 with 40mm. Does this osund right. I am not sure about tyre sizes

[Problem Child]

Tyres to fit above are 215x40x17 and 245x35x18 and can get Falken 452's all round to fit (£92 fronts and £165 on the back)...just waiting on a price

[Senninha]

rears should be at least 9" with 265x35 rubber otherwise you'll risk throwing out the balance and have TCS lights flashing at you and slowing you down even more than normal ....;)

[L696ULO]

Geoff

To confuse you even more in the Nsx technical forum read the Tyres sticky (3rd one down) for tyre sizes and you can also use this link to avoid TCS lights coming on

http://www.alloywheels.com/tyrecalc.asp

Good luck

[britlude]

you have to try to match the tyre ratio to that the standard wheels, for example if the rears are originally 8% ( a random number plucked from the air) taller than the fronts, aim to maintain this ratio. this is what the abs/tcs looks at, the rears turning x amount slower at a given speed than the fronts.

you can do it by radius, circumference, height, revs per mile, whatever ratio! just as long as the rears are the same percentage taller than the fronts

[TheSebringOne]

I know silver wheels are the way to go, but I quite like black wheels with some red cars!

[Nick Graves]

Hi Geoff,

Please do NOT mix tyre's on your beloved NSX. I've heard too many 'close encounters' stories from other owners. Mine had yoko front and bridgestone rears when I bought it, not a good mix.

Goodyears, Yokohama, bridgestone and I think Hankook should have something or you ...

Good luck

Rgds Paul

Indeed - at least dangerous offsets only come into play under braking of bumpy roads.

Different coefficients of friction come into play under all sorts of conditions.

I don't really like mixing old & new versions of the same tyre - the sticky top coat has worn off the rear 'stones of my S2000 and the handling is now great fun - in the dry!

[Nick Graves]

I know silver wheels are the way to go, but I quite like black wheels with some red cars!

Solaris silver squares the circle quite nicely! I think it's a great colour. It's all shades of grey, really.

[Problem Child]

rears should be at least 9" with 265x35 rubber otherwise you'll risk throwing out the balance and have TCS lights flashing at you and slowing you down even more than normal ....;)

will the following work:

current........................................... ..new . Diameter diff (mm).....................Speed diff
215x45x16 on 16x7 et55.....................215x40x17 on 17x8 et40..........600/604.......................................70mph/70.48mph
245x40x17 on 17x8.5 et 60 ................285x30x18 on 18x9.5 et40........628/628......................................70mph/70mph
Std Honda nsx...................................TSW Mugello's

[Senninha]

Hi Geoff,

You will need to consult with one of our more technical owners, ie Markc, Nick G or Duncan spring to mind when it comes to diffinitive wheel/tyre calculations.

My observation on your proposal is that going to 285/30 you will have a very narrow sidewall to the tyre that on UK roads could leave your wheels exposed to pothole damage as well as IMO a negative impact on overall ride. I assume this to be important to you as I suspect the change is for cosmetic rather than performance benefit.

regards, Paul

[Nick Graves]

:D

I'm not that technical - I don't build these things!

I don't like the offsets and unless you're going FI, I cannot see the point of increasing the stagger with such fat rears. The damned thing understeers enough into a turn & getting the rear out is quite difficult with good tyres on OEM settings/OEM geometry. I think you'll bu gger up the wonderful dynamics and the NVH will suffer on our crap roads. Might make it a nightmare in the wet too; increases the risk of aquaplaning.

Of course it you want to Hellagash it with loads of unhelpful camber, that's entirely your perogative...but it sort of misses the point a bit.

[Senninha]

Hi Geoff,

What about these ?

http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php?t=161593

regards, Paul

[Sudesh]

If I was going to change my OEM 7 spokes, it would have to be for something with a wider concave type rear wheel. I'd actually love the 7 spokes to have that type of look at the rear.