Sheer lunacy? hardtop to targa conversion? [Archive]

View Full Version : Sheer lunacy? hardtop to targa conversion?

mutley

06-02-2006, 07:52 PM

Has anyone heard of a hardop being converted to a targa?
I always fancied an NSX with a roof that comes off, but as you probably all know the one I ended up with was such a bargain i had to go for it.

I guess there would be stengthening issues, but just wondered if anyone knows of or heard of this being done..........................or should I drag myself off to the loony bin now for such a mad idea and save all the suffering?

06-02-2006, 08:09 PM

Mate, it took me ages to find the right NSX only because I was after a manual, coupe.

I for one prefer the coupes.

Will we be able to feel the difference on a daily basis, who knows???

But the coupe gets my vote.

There is even a bloke on Prime who had a brand new targa converted to a coupe as they did not have the option of coupes after 1998 if I remember correctly.

If you want a targa, sell the coupe and get a targa, it will be cheaper and easier.

Cheers

AR

Rob_Fenn

06-02-2006, 08:36 PM

For me, it would be lunacy, because i am interested in the NSX purely for the performance aspects of the car.

If you want to feel the rush in your hair, but not compromise, why didn't you go for an Elise or VX220/Speedster?

AR is referring (i think) to the guy who turned his Targa to an almost Type R coupe, an awesome job which must of cost loads. He also took it up a level to make it a Type R which makes it seem more worthwile.

I'd agree with AR and sell it. If you like your drop tops then you don't want that nagging feeling every time you get in it, especially come spring time!

-Rob

sportyking

06-02-2006, 09:05 PM

Bear in mind you will also be stuck with the car unless you accepted a pittance. Once you chop the roof it will be irreversible as welding an Ali roof back on will be a specialist (v.expensive) job and the car will immediately be tainted along the lines Cat C and D cars. Ok if you only want 5-7k for it afterwards, but of course it wont even have any appeal as a track car to anyone, with no roof.

Take AR's advice and get a Targa if you want one, as I understand it they are less desireable in the Uk so should be easier to find a bargain.

06-02-2006, 09:26 PM

sportyking did you get my PM?

Clive

06-02-2006, 09:31 PM

Bear in mind also that the factory NSX-T was extensively strengthened (underside/ windscreen rails, etc) to stop it bending in the middle (it was 50kg heavier). And even then you could tell it was worse. Ask yourself what sort of state your car would be in. Your car would be valueless.

:cry:

Papalazarou

07-02-2006, 08:56 AM

TheQuietOne

07-02-2006, 09:27 AM

I think in the states there are only about 2 post 98 coupes, and there was a mad frenzy recently when a Red/Black 2000 coupe came up for grabs on Prime!

I have never been in a Targa, but from the way I drive mine I would think I'm in Jame's camp on the 'F1 driver' line he takes. I seldom push mine really hard as I drive it so much, and also get so much enjoyment from driving it sensibly too. On the roads I drive a lot it is only really safe to accelerate hard in a straight line anyway (slip roads etc) and I can't see there being any 'real' difference in that feeling in a slightly more flexible car.

I would put some TLC into yours, make some £'s on it and get a Targa if that is your ideal combination!

mutley

07-02-2006, 12:30 PM

Thanks guys, I have had my lobotomy reversed and thinking straight again, I'll stick to what I have, I had a think about seling this one and going for a targa, but I'd rather have the one I've got. I weighed up the pro's and con's between looks and performance, and I prefer the latter, and as I have been wanting an NSX for years, so I'll stay with this one.
My mind is at rest.

07-02-2006, 01:21 PM

I saw a picture on Prime of a 'complete' NSX convertible (will try to find it). It looked pretty weird but quite interesting.
I agree with everyone here that you're 110% better off with the variant you want, but pleeeese no debates about which car is best or has the least flex, because in the real world "not the fictional one where everyone's an F1 driver" it really makes no difference.

Cheers,

James.

The one thing that does make a difference is weight, the chance that it could leak, the fact that one has to have a place to store the roof panel and the lovely British weather, that is enough to swing my vote for the coupe.

But if one likes open air motoring, all those points are moot.

Cheers

AR

Rob_Fenn

07-02-2006, 04:20 PM

Your average B road would be able to show you the difference in torsional difference and on a track day it would be easy. It's not about thinking you are Schumacher, if you like enthusiastic driving then you'd be able to tell.

Papalazarou

07-02-2006, 05:27 PM

And so it continues..... :cry:

Anyway I finally found the convertible NSX pictures. It's kind of funny looking :shock: But it's mother loves it!

http://www.chooseyouritem.com/exotics/files/85500/85925.html

Cheers,

James.

07-02-2006, 05:49 PM

Here we are:

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62693&highlight=convertible

IMO it looks strange.

TheQuietOne

07-02-2006, 06:06 PM

[quote="Papalazarou"]And so it continues..... :cry: quote]

Can of worms = opened....

Think I might delete my subscription to this thread before any more 'trackies' get going :shock:

Surely it is just a matter of how you use your car, fortunate to have one for track days only, coupe, for a mix of everyday driving without endangering other road users, and breaking the speed limit left right and centre the choice is yours, messed up hair from the wind, or messed up hair from your head rubbing against the roof :wink:

Matt.

Nick Graves

07-02-2006, 06:40 PM

I quite like that convertible. It really looks quite tidy for a non-factory.

I do have my reservations about sliced tin-tops, but I have driven roadsters for too many years.

I think the only way to decide is to take a coupe & T down the same road, which I shall if the right T comes along!

jaytip

08-02-2006, 12:39 PM

I think the only way to decide is to take a coupe & T down the same road
Agreed.In fact i will take it one step further.I don't own a t-top(so i am not sticking up for t-top owners) i owned a coupe for 2.5 years but i think the only way you will see(and know for sure) is if a PROFESSIONAL RACING DRIVER takes both cars around a winding circuit and there is a big difference in the lap times.If you were to drive your car like that on the road you should be banned.If it's an out-and-out track car you want,get a radical.

Nick Graves

08-02-2006, 04:52 PM

Papalazarou

08-02-2006, 05:19 PM

I swore to myself that I wouldn't get drawn into this one but I've got no self control so here's a long quote from a guy on Prime who's opinions I share.

"This point really isn't specific to the NSX community. Car enthusiasts from every forum I've ever visited have different segments of owners with varying interests. Different owners with different applications, budgets, knowledge level, driving skills, interests, psychologies, and justifications for owning their vehicles. People are dynamic and often time their minds, and hence requirements will change rather often.

No approach is better than the other, as it is the owner's money and what really matters is that they are happy with their car and mods and it meets their needs. I find that enthusiasts whom look down on any one flavor of enthusiast are themselves the real behavior issue. Every platform has its uses, advantages, and disadvantages- and I find it elementary behavior to characterize owners based on vehicle ownership or how they choose to mod their cars. What does it matter, we don't have to drive it. Ideally, we would all have something very similar to Jay Leno's garage anyway... is not variety the spice of life?

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulviriyapan
The 3.2/6 spd. COUPE represents the ultimate performance incarnation (barring FI) of the NSX. It's the quickest, its chasis is the most rigid and it handles the best.

The 3.0/5 spd. TARGA is the slowest of the breed, has a less rigid chassis but you can take the top off and have the wind in your hair (provided you have hair left--I'll refrain from further comment out of respect for any male pattern baldness members out there .)

This reminds me of my class today on data structures and complexity. Lots of theory and little real-world application. IMHO Stock to stock- the coupe vs. targa chassis rigidity issue is a really over-hyped sales point for the average self-proclaimed performance enthusiast; whereas driving skill (e.g. getting lapped by experienced drivers with stock convertible Miatas, S2000's, and Elises on open track days) is quite likely far more of an impending "performance issue" than an abstract analysis on torsional chassis rigidity of coupe vs. targa.

No matter which way you go, both are very good, and the chances are in your favor that on the average track day your chassis is more rigid then the far majority of the cars in the parking lot, and you'll probably be just fine. While a select few can make a compelling argument on the neccessity given competitive requirements, in numbers it's few and far between.

If you were to further bring modifications into the equation bench racing, then either platform can be made to out perform the other or whatever else you want. It's just time, knowledge, and money. Then you can have both and won't have to compromise. I could chime in on that point.

As a reference point, on my last corner balance my late model T weighed in at 2774 (under NSX-R) with a full tank of gas, complete interior, and about 95lbs of additional stuff that can fairly easily be removed or swapped. With the roof in place and near every useful chassis bar available, I can assure that this argument is a real non-issue to me.

I'm in the camp that thinks if a potential owner is really that perplexed by the compromising performance issues of NSX coupe vs. targa on paper, then any NSX isn't the best choice for them.

While a great vehicle and we all love them, from a strict performance analysis on paper the reality is that by electing it you've already made a huge performance compromise from the get go anyway- by selecting a mid-size mid-powered sports car with a fairly healthy array of ammenities.

The reality is that there are plenty of other platforms and designs (from dedicated off road race cars to spec racers to formula cars to etc... to blingy high end luxury sports cars and exotic supercars) at all sorts of price points that pack far more performance potential on the benchmark test.

There is of course a flip side to this argument; being that just as important as raw performance is to anyone... is the ability to assess how much performance you as a driver personally NEED versus the compromise of practical functionality. For many an open air targa is a great driving experience, and if you don't want it the hard top goes back on at anytime so you are getting the best of both. Hell even an F50 or koenigsegg comes in open top, and given their dry carbon chassis I doubt their owners lose sleep over it, or you would be saying "I'm sorry I really have to have it in a coupe".

What did you really lose? ~80lbs more? Putting it back into perspective, IMHO even a moderately modified S2000 with tires, pads, etc... is more performance then the average driver will likely ever be able to practically, safely, let alone legally use in 99% of all driving situations without being on a race track. For the street, as-is it is about equivalent to hitting a fly with a brick. You have awesome handling/braking, a 9K RPM redline, ~150mph top speed.. and being practical it is several times faster out of the box then the last 75 cars parked next to you at the traffic light... and all the while you have two SUV's and a trash truck in front of you doing 31 in a 45... likely what is really giving some the added time to ponder NSX chassis rigidity. Well, it's a thought..

..like those poll results. over 87% turning their nose up at the Targa because they want the "fastest and best handling NSX"... this of course then leading me to wonder how many have replaced their 1991 bushings or shocks? Hmm.. so where's the poll for that?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by John@Microsoft : 01-21-2006 at 11:28.

You may also want to consider that on real UK roads where over firm suspension is often a drawback because of the bumpy badly surfaced sections, the targa may be superior because it has slightly softer suspension settings from the factory.

Cheers, James.

TheQuietOne

08-02-2006, 05:29 PM

James,

Didn't I sort of say that in two lines :shock: ? Seriously though, great if a little long-winded quote!

Matt.

Papalazarou

08-02-2006, 05:37 PM

Hi Matt,

Yes I think you did! I wanted everyone to feel my pain though!
Only kidding, it was from a thread I'd been following on prime and thought people might find it interesting.
The Americans got a bit emotional about the whole thing.

Cheers,

James.

jaytip

08-02-2006, 06:07 PM

Flinty

09-02-2006, 02:48 PM

Glad to see you've recovered from the lunacy. Chop the roof off - crazy thought.

However, to counter some 'interesting' comments:

I have a Targa. It does NOT leak. It has a very clever place to put the Ali Roof panel. I like it, its fun, especially in the sun.

No convertible is as rigid as a coupe and they dont handle quite as well. Yes i can keep up with any standard 3.0 Coupe in a straight line, the engine is the same and the impact of the extra weight negligible when you consider some of us are fat b'stards and petrol tanks get empty. Yes i can still out corner virtually anything else on the Road in the real world. Yes, i've driven on track in a Targa and it was a lot of fun and not scary. Yes it was quicker round the circuit than almost anything there (apart from some nut in a CTR - who happened to be 1 of the current Honda Touring Car drivers) and Yes a Coupe would be a bit faster in varying degrees in the same hands in ANY given bit of road. And yes, I still have hair and am happy with the size of my tadger.

It's all relative. Neither Targa nor Coupe is 'better' - they suit subtly different buyers.

I dont NEED to be faster than anyone - i just enjoy driving the NSX - and the targa panel gives me another option. With the panel fitted, body wobble is negligible. Removed, it flexes a little, but nothing to get excited about.

Yes, i'd love a Coupe, but i wouldnt swap one for the Targa. They dont have as many choices.

Flinty

09-02-2006, 06:50 PM

However, to counter some 'interesting' comments:

I have a Targa. It does NOT leak. It has a very clever place to put the Ali Roof panel. I like it, its fun, especially in the sun.

Flinty

Flinty with a T you can't take the engine lid off, unless you want to put the T in the boot. As to the leaks, I guess only time will tell.

If you want a T only a T will do, same if you want a coupe. We are all lucky that we have a choice of models in the UK.

Many will say that the Auto/Paddle is not as good as the manual. I used to be one of those. I was in traffic today with the NSX on 200 meters of incline stop and go, I was thinking of how easy it is to endure this traffic in the Auto Amazon. So for a city driver a manual might be the better NSX.

Cheers

AR

Greybloke

09-02-2006, 08:52 PM

I was in traffic today with the NSX on 200 meters of incline stop and go, I was thinking of how easy it is to endure this traffic in the Auto Amazon. So for a city driver a manual might be the better NSX.

err sorry not following you here, :roll:

Unless you are looking for a track only car, I can see the attraction of a T top ( having come from a S2000 I do on occasion miss the fresh air :cry: ) But I just did not see a T top that matched my price / condition expectations. Oh apart from flinty's :wink: As for auto's, again each to their own, but I just dont get it. Not for me :twisted:

sportyking

09-02-2006, 09:18 PM

If I want an open top car, I buy one that was designed that way and likewise a tintop.

That is me though, and who else cares :D.

All rare supercars are nice to see and I count myself lucky to be able to recall owning one when I find myself dumped in old folks home by the kids, whatever it was.
I don't include any common as muck 911 variants in that by the way :D

09-02-2006, 09:55 PM

Greybloke wrote:

err sorry not following you here,

Unless you are looking for a track only car, I can see the attraction of a T top ( having come from a S2000 I do on occasion miss the fresh air ) But I just did not see a T top that matched my price / condition expectations. Oh apart from flinty's As for auto's, again each to their own, but I just dont get it. Not for me

So what you are saying is that you'll rather have a T than a coupe, good thing we have choices. So I chose a coupe with 6 speed.

Cheers

AR

PS Anyone with a coupe wanting a Targa, have you seen what Billy Idol did to the Gallardo in Viva La Bam on MTV, I'll pass, thank you.

simonprelude

10-02-2006, 10:12 AM

Keep thinking about a targa to replace the S2000, then will have the best of both worlds. But will probably end up with something with a yellow and black badge :(

Greybloke

10-02-2006, 08:52 PM

will probably end up with something with a yellow and black badge :(

What you want a JCB :shock:

simonprelude

10-02-2006, 09:08 PM

That's the one :)

If S2000 money then an old Ferrari project, however still looking at Murcielago's :)

will probably end up with something with a yellow and black badge :(

What you want a JCB :shock:

Clive

15-02-2006, 07:24 PM

To reply to the message sometime back on "let's not talk about flex.. and the difference between coupes and NSX-Ts". All I can say is that I've owned 3 NSX, one of which was a targa. I'm afraid (NSX-T owners) that it was manifestly less competent on the road at anything over 70% trying. And you could feel the difference at all speeds over 60 mph. Sorry.

Clive
:)

Papalazarou

16-02-2006, 05:20 PM

Well obviously you're the expert?

TheQuietOne

16-02-2006, 05:29 PM

...and here we go again! :roll:

Papalazarou

16-02-2006, 05:40 PM

I know it's so annoying! Maybe we should have a two clubs:
NSXCB Coupe and NSXCB Targa?

James :cry:

TheQuietOne

16-02-2006, 05:47 PM

What about those of us that don't care!

Papalazarou

16-02-2006, 05:49 PM

You're posting on this thread so you must care!

TheQuietOne

16-02-2006, 06:05 PM

Oi, don't drag me into this! I just think people miss the point when they harp on about flex etc with these cars, and I can't be bothered to unsubscribe to the thread!

Plus I'm hoping for a ride in your with the top off in the summer if I keep sticking up for your car on here :wink:

Papalazarou

17-02-2006, 11:31 AM

Thanks Matt,

I really appreciate it and I totally agree with you, it just winds me up a bit when people keep bringing up this flex thing which has never been an issue for me despite regularly driving on some of the most challenging roads in the UK.
The purist attitude sucks especially when the people who have the issue own coupe's anyway!

Anyway thanks again.

James. :)

TheQuietOne

17-02-2006, 11:48 AM

No ride then...:cry:

Papalazarou

17-02-2006, 11:51 AM

No problem. :)

Cheers,

James.

Nick Graves

23-02-2006, 07:41 PM

Dunno about that.

I've driven a 3.2 coupe hard enough down a favourite road for any deficiencies to reveal themselves.

That's how I know the car is more capable and has better near limit feel than the S2000!
Thats like compering apples to oranges.They are completly different cars.The S2K is known for being twitchy at the limit,where-as the NSX is renowned worldwide as being a safe and user friendly supercar

????

Any fule no that.

Point was, one can drive the car hard on the public highway, & testing both versions on the same stretch is the only way to make a personal choice.

????

jaytip

24-02-2006, 12:26 PM

Nick Graves

25-02-2006, 03:26 PM

This is getting worse!

By driving both versions, I meant both versions the the NSX.

The point regarding the S2000 was that one has to drive BOTH on the limits, in order discover the difference.

Although the S2000 is lively & nervous and the NSX brisk yet relaxed at 80%, the difference in actual ability is less marked. However, drive both cars at 80% over 300 miles, in one you'll be knackered, the other not phased.

That I have not carried out my scientific test notwithstanding, apart from the odd windscreen flutter, coupe & T are probably indistinguishable driven at 8/10. Probably.

It is therefore only us maniacs who will be concerned with the 100% test.

mutley

25-02-2006, 09:06 PM

I'm starting to wish I never brought this up now, seems to have opened up a right can or worms!!!

Play nice chaps.

Papalazarou

26-02-2006, 05:48 PM

Yes and we all blame you! :D

James.

mutley

26-02-2006, 06:48 PM

Great.... makes me feel a whole lot better!!!!

I'll have to think of another stupid suggestion now!

Senninha

08-03-2006, 09:03 PM

And you thought your idea was stupid . . . just have a look at this conversion to convertible I found on the web :shock:

mutley

08-03-2006, 11:58 PM

Yup, that has to be the most hideous thing I have ever seen in my life!!!

AnArtist

09-03-2006, 12:14 AM

How about Hard top? :shock:

Papalazarou

09-03-2006, 09:18 AM

That's the car that coupe owners should be made to drive if they bitch about targa's :lol:

James.

Senninha

09-03-2006, 01:51 PM

Looks like someone sat an elephant on an XJ220!

Sagacitas

09-03-2006, 06:01 PM

I quite like it. Nice to see a kit for the NSX that isn't simply a wide body.

Richard

jaytip

09-03-2006, 06:11 PM

I quite like it. Nice to see a kit for the NSX that isn't simply a wide body.

Richard
Please tell me you are joking :shock:

Martin

09-03-2006, 09:12 PM

That is the most stupid looking car I have seen for a long time!
Can you give me the link for it, so that if I ever need a laugh I know where to go :lol:

bazza

09-03-2006, 09:33 PM

That is the most stupid looking car I have seen for a long time!

Rubs chin.. I think you might be right there.. :wink: