My automatic gearbox.... the story! lots of pics too....

[britlude]

As you may have seen with my ‘Houston we have a problem’ thread, my gearbox gave up the ghost a couple of days after the Goodwood festival of speed. An internet search of UK breakers/suppliers, and contacting the various NSX specialists gave me options ranging from £2000 to £3500 for a second hand ‘low mileage’ unit.

Obviously ALL second hand gearboxes are low mileage, been driven by little old ladies with feather cushions on the accelerator pedal, never exceeding 4000rpm! Anyway the plan was to fit an ‘unknown’ gearbox, and then rebuild mine at my leisure!

So it was off to Ideal Engines in Barking, (more on them later) a quick 23 mile drive away, for a box with torque converter, £795 plus vat! …… I know it all seemed too good to be true, but sometimes it’s got to work in your favour!

So with a replacement gearbox in the back of my dad’s car we set off back home! Hurrah

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn41/thisYup/nsx%20stuff/gearbox%20july%202012/2012-07-04-1100.jpg

and torque converter
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn41/thisYup/nsx%20stuff/gearbox%20july%202012/2012-07-04-1099.jpg

the car jacked up and on axle stands the strip down was started with me underneath,
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn41/thisYup/nsx%20stuff/gearbox%20july%202012/2012-07-05-1107.jpg

and my dad up top!
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn41/thisYup/nsx%20stuff/gearbox%20july%202012/2012-07-06-1116.jpg

[britlude]

starting removing the suspension bits
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn41/thisYup/nsx%20stuff/gearbox%20july%202012/2012-07-05-1108.jpg
(Dad’s feet, told you he was up top!)

all bolts loosened, (bolts in place just to keep everything together) removed the selector cable cover…
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn41/thisYup/nsx%20stuff/gearbox%20july%202012/2012-07-05-1110.jpg

suspension bottom arms were dropped so the drive shafts can be removed. (the abs cable guides were unbolted from the bottom arms to allow the hubs to move without breaking anything)
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn41/thisYup/nsx%20stuff/gearbox%20july%202012/2012-07-05-1113-1.jpg

the driveshafts pulled (2 sets of hands helped here) the ends were covered, and the passenger side suspension tied up out of the way
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn41/thisYup/nsx%20stuff/gearbox%20july%202012/2012-07-05-1114.jpg

[britlude]

Must have gadget for this job was the transmission scissor jack, £100 and would have been a nightmare without it as the gearbox is over 100kgs!
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn41/thisYup/nsx%20stuff/gearbox%20july%202012/2012-07-06-1120.jpg

a case of following the service manual undoing everything and making sure everything that should be undone was undone!
The point of no return….. (ok that might have been earlier when I drained the oil and pulled the driveshafts!)
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn41/thisYup/nsx%20stuff/gearbox%20july%202012/2012-07-06-1122.jpg

then it was a case of moving the gearbox away from the engine about ¾ inch (19mm for the metric amongst you) and lowering it down, just making sure nothing hooked up on anything else!
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn41/thisYup/nsx%20stuff/gearbox%20july%202012/2012-07-06-1123.jpg

the torque converter stays in the box, hence not having to pull the gearbox off too far.
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn41/thisYup/nsx%20stuff/gearbox%20july%202012/2012-07-06-1125.jpg
the jack was there just in case, acting as a support on the corner of the engine, as I wasn’t sure how the engine would react with the rear and transmission mounts disconnected…. I needn’t have worried, it didn’t move!

[britlude]

the view through the wheel arch….
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn41/thisYup/nsx%20stuff/gearbox%20july%202012/2012-07-06-1126-1.jpg

Then I had a slightly sorry gearbox on the floor…
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn41/thisYup/nsx%20stuff/gearbox%20july%202012/2012-07-06-1128-1.jpg

the old and replacement….
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn41/thisYup/nsx%20stuff/gearbox%20july%202012/2012-07-06-1133.jpg

the gap left….
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn41/thisYup/nsx%20stuff/gearbox%20july%202012/2012-07-06-1129.jpg

[britlude]

looking up, the transmission cooler still floating in the breeze…
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn41/thisYup/nsx%20stuff/gearbox%20july%202012/2012-07-06-1124.jpg

on the new box the speed sensor had been damaged while the box had been sitting on a shelf
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn41/thisYup/nsx%20stuff/gearbox%20july%202012/2012-07-06-1130.jpg

also a chance to show the small mod to the heat shield, from when I changed it in the car… a couple of slotted holes makes life sooo much easier!
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn41/thisYup/nsx%20stuff/gearbox%20july%202012/2012-07-06-1131.jpg

new box on the jack, and in it goes!
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn41/thisYup/nsx%20stuff/gearbox%20july%202012/2012-07-06-1135.jpg

[britlude]

while bits were out they got a clean…

grubby….
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn41/thisYup/nsx%20stuff/gearbox%20july%202012/2012-07-06-1118.jpg

better…
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn41/thisYup/nsx%20stuff/gearbox%20july%202012/2012-07-07-1136.jpg

all back together the car was back on it’s wheels 6 hours after we started!

Refilled with oil, transmission cycled through the gears, and levels rechecked, it was done.

Gear take up was instant, far better than the slushy ‘will it eventually select D’ I had become use to. On the initial gentle drive around the block the shifts were firm, but acceptable, and 2nd and 4th work! Hurrah

Then on a drive out, still being gentle, it died. Lost all drive. Stop, restart and it worked fine. Everything pointed to some sort of electrical problem so a replacement transmission ecu was sourced (well 2 as I found a second cheap!)… and their arrival waited (1 coming from USA the second from Australia!) unfortunately before their arrival and on a short ‘has resetting and checking everything cured it?’ drive the box suffered catastrophic failure.. about 6 miles after fitting!



Arse!



.

[Mark N]

Great pictures and write up looking forward to reading the next chapter.

"Arse !" :laugh:Thats putting it mildley after all that work I think i would have been using much stronger words and spitting feathers:angry:


Mark.

[goldnsx]

...the box suffered catastrophic failure.. about 6 miles after fitting!
Ough, that's real bad luck!

How did you lift the car in the rear so high without doing the same with the front?

[Problem Child]

Ough, that's real bad luck!

How did you lift the car in the rear so high without doing the same with the front?

This saga has all the tension of the Star Wars series....can I have the film rights?

I appreciate your humour throughout all of this, I doubt I would be so understandinig! Great write up and pics

[UnhuZ]

Contact Prime user Hugabuga, he is here in Portugal and i think he still has a automatic gearbox with 21000kms, that is stopped for more than 10 years...

I will ask him for it... i think i remember him saying he would sell it for cheap.

Nuno

[soddy]

if i may ask, do you prefer the auto to the manual? how much work is it to convert to a manual?
understand the buying of a manual gearbox, pedal, clutch cylinders etc, etc.

maybe cheaper to purchase a manual gearbox and convert and be more reliable?

[britlude]

Contact Prime user Hugabuga, he is here in Portugal and i think he still has a automatic gearbox with 21000kms, that is stopped for more than 10 years...

I will ask him for it... i think i remember him saying he would sell it for cheap.

Nuno


thanks, I did see his gearbox listed on NSXPrime. however it's sorted now...

i'll do the rest of the saga soon!

hurrah for the auto to manual conversion suggestion! every auto thread gets there at some point! (SMILIE FACE) you're looking at £6k plus in parts to do it properly!

...gearbox, clutch, pedal assembly, clutch master/slave/plumbing. gearbox engine loom, manual gearbox traction control unit. gear selector and linkage, instrument panel and bit of loom! rig up a reverse lockout circuit, and for the complete swap engine ECU and a couple of cam shafts! i think thats most of it!

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Hi, Jonathan.

Can’t wait to read the rest of the story after what I read in your post on Prime.

Unbelievable…….


Glad that your NSX is back on the road.

I now know where to go if I need some parts for AT box.


Kaz

[britlude]

Back to the saga…. It’s quite long, so grab a drink… And a pen, I may ask questions later…


Now when I say catastrophic failure, I mean properly grenaded itself. With the car back home, luckily I was only half a mile away, it was obviously not happy. Engine labouring in park, wanting to drive forward in neutral, so it was up on axle stands again. So, if the wheels are turning forward when reverse is selected, and with the engine stopped in neutral, and no handbrake applied, you can undo the wheel nuts then there is a problem! oddly the wheels turned forward in every gear except '1'! Oh well, the box came with a warranty, we’ll see how good it is! And then started the saga!

Weds July 4th got the box
Fri July 6th fitted the box
Sat July 7th destroyed the box after 6 miles!

So I rang Ideal Engines, told them the situation, and they said they will source another replacement box! Now, I know how many boxes were available at the time and the prices (2, one at *** parts ltd £2200 plus vat and one at Xcess Access ltd £2200 plus vat exchange!) but they said they could, so I gave them a chance! The following Friday they think they have found one.

The Saturday (15th July) we swap my sick box back in, as there is no point keeping the replacement in the car, as you couldn’t even push it in neutral! Semi mobile is better then not at all! Second time round, it was 3 ½ hours floor to floor!

On the Monday I’m told they have found a box and it’s being shipped to them! Ring Weds… not there yet, en route! The same Thursday and Friday! And the same Monday! Argh! Wondering where it’s coming from now!

Tuesday 24th July… when we ring, we’re told they don’t know where it is, and it’s been lost! GREAT!
But they do offer to repair either of the boxes I have, so they get their one back, complete with a crunchy torque converter, which won’t even turn with no engine connected to it!

Wednesday 25th July…we return it, and told to give them a ring Monday! We did mention other places have been concerned about spare parts but are reassured it’s not a problem for them!

Monday30th July... told the box has been stripped there…and under way
Tuesday 31st July... told it’ll be ready tomorrow! Hurrah
Weds August 1st... told to ring Friday……

Friday August 3rd... told to ring Monday, the gearbox had suffered water damage… I had wondered this, and had mentioned it when the gearbox was returned to them. Before it went in there was a little water in the sump, and I put it down to them cleaning the box before I collected it…. Did you spot the missing breather cover between the 3 mounting bolts on the top?

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn41/thisYup/nsx%20stuff/gearbox%20july%202012/2012-07-06-1133.jpg

no, me neither until the 2 were side by side!

When Ideal Engines had got the box it was with an engine they had got in for a customer. The customer didn’t want the box (wonder if they knew it was an auto spec engine they bought), so they had it on the shelf. Now, there’s no telling where it had been before this, but I suspect it was in a yard somewhere uncovered, every rainfall letting a bit more dampness inside. Not seeing inside the box, I’ll never know, but suspect surface rust on precision tolerance components!

Monday 6th August... rang them again, to be told they are now waiting for parts from Honda…. Told they are waiting for an ‘internal solenoid’…. Hmmm none of them inside there!

Thurs 9th August… told the bits have arrived and the box is going back together…
(I had ordered a couple of hoses from HUK, and they arrived, so I knew at least Honda still worked!)
Fri 10th August… still putting it back together!... still

Monday 13th the saga continued, but cracks are showing through now, as I’m told the box is assembled, but got to wait for it to come back from the specialist in Walthamstow… hmmm, I thought they said it was being done in house…

Tuesday to Friday I was told it’ll be ready tomorrow. Friday it was going to be there Saturday, 100% or I could have my money back!

Saturday… no surprises, it’s not there

Rang them Monday to find out what’s going on… the Box has been sent away for testing as my car isn’t there to test it and they want it to be right! Ok, I’ll have my money back then!

Follow this with daily phone calls for 2 ½ weeks, asking for the refund, with various excuses ranging from ‘It’ll be there tomorrow’, ‘we have a refund queue system and can only do 5 a day’, to the refund guy never being in the office! 2 days of carpet bombing their email and phone system (went contract on my mobile and had lots of free mins to use) eventually did the trick!

[britlude]

So if you need a box, and an internet search pops Ideal Engines of Barking into the frame, I’d suggest avoiding them! Oh, the box that grenaded itself was MR9A 1001007, may or may not have been dropped near the speed sensor ….

anyway, Just for reference
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn41/thisYup/nsx%20stuff/gearbox%20july%202012/2012-07-04-1098.jpg


I’m not sure if it was cash flow, incompetence, or a desperate hope that the box (any box) would come back to them and thus to me, that caused the delay, but at least the money is back in my account!

The other ‘lost’ box was never mentioned again (never existed probably) and the repaired box wasn’t mentioned either, even 3 weeks after the ‘it’ll be here tomorrow 100%’ promise… guess that never went anywhere either! And People wonder why I do things myself!

Once they decided to give me a refund, I’m left back at square one, dead box, and 6 weeks down the pan… along with Silverstone and mini meets!

so the plan now was to get my box rebuilt as it's the only one i have, and *** parts are the only dismantlers with one now (which might be just as bad as the one that just destroyed itself!) (edit. sentence added for Silver surfer who may have had a valid point!)

Local gearbox ‘specialists’ seemed to think Honda boxes work on some kind of Magic, a strange mystical force connecting the engine to the wheels! One place had done one before (hurrah) but when I went there for a quote, look-see, the first question was ‘is it 4wd?’ and ‘is it the 2ltr?’, followed by ‘how’s the box going to come out’… not promising! Turns out they had never seen one before…And £2200 plus vat, 10 to 14 days, if they have to get hard parts (metal bits as opposed to the 'soft' friction parts) it could be months as Honda bits are hard to get! Strange that £2200 seems such a popular number!

Another local place quoted £2200 plus the dreaded (AGAIN! is this a standard number???), a number plucked out of thin air as they had no idea of the repair parts cost as they weren’t in their catalogue! Again promotes confidence!

It would appear that there has never been an NSX automatic gearbox repaired in this country by anyone ever!!! So I’m pioneering again!

The only gearbox place that seemed to have any level of competence, and at least a better, transparent pricing system was JT Transmissions, of Erith, Kent. The option being £1220 fit myself with one year guarantee, or £1488 inc with them fitting it, and a 2 year/24000 mile guarantee! 2 year option it was then. Oh, and any hard parts? Usually 3 days from Belgium, Honda are really good I’m told!!!!

The car was transported up there on the 23rd August, (lots of blocks of wood to get it on the transporter!) and was up on the 2 post hoist before I left! Bank Holiday Monday played with the schedule so it was pencilled in to be ready Thurs/Friday! Hurrah!

Friday at 5pm I got a call…. Where is the diagnostic socket so they can check/clear the error codes, and reflash the ecu??? As I’ve fitted a stereo I must have moved it! Hmmm, told them there isn’t one, just the 2 wire blue socket, and told them where it was and the procedure! ‘oh, it’s an old setup’ was the reply… well, it is a 20 year old car! And left them with it! (I even offered to do it for them!!!!)

Monday lunchtime I rang them, and the receptionist told me they were still trying to get the error codes… So that afternoon my girlfriend and I sneaked off work early and go up there, service manual in hand! We get there, to be told they’ve sorted the codes, pretty sure the gearbox is not related to them, and tell me it’s crank sensor, EPS, and various other things that make the dash look like a disco! Sounds convincing… not

… but as I’m there I can take the car! While I’m there I give it all a reset and take a gentle drive home, Sarah chasing me in her Nissan Cube! A JDM cruise!

Sure enough it’s driving nicely, changing as it should, but about half way the ‘d’ starts flashing and EPS warning light pops up. Everything still working, nothing in limp mode, so take it gentle! Once home I start the diagnostics… When the garage was looking for the diagnostics port, they removed the cover under the glove box. Unfortunately when they put it back, they tucked the all important blue connector up behind everything, so it couldn’t be found! I always leave it under the floor mat, just for easy access!

Anyway blue socket shorted across the wires, the ignition was turned on, and flashes counted… D- code 9, EPS- code 33… something to do with the speed sensor.

At the back of the box there’s 2 connectors, one is the gearbox (NC) speed sensor for the AT ecu, and the second is the speed sensor for the speedo... so the plan was to unplug both, cycle the connectors to wipe the contacts, then put it back together… I would have unplugged both but one hadn’t been connected! Plug it in, remove the clock fuse, reset everything and go for a drive! All sorted, Perfect! Quick take-up, nice changes, torque converter locking up as it should, no fault codes anywhere, happy face!

In JT’s defence, the unplugged socket was well hidden, but had they actually found the blue socket it would have come back sorted. However I can report that JT Transmissions are one of the few gearbox places in the country that HAVE rebuilt an NSX autobox!

This does mean my original plan of having a box in the car, and a box to repair at my leisure bit the dust, especially as RockAuto.com now list AT rebuild kits and filters for £155 delivered….


…. however, there’s a gearbox on a boat, sailing from Brisbane, Australia with my name on it, due to land at the end of September!... (smiley!!!!)

[Silver Surfer]

So Jonathan...finally a result!!! Well done for getting the car working again.
Did JT fixed your box or put a refurbished one in?....weren't sure from your tale.

SS

[britlude]

JT Transmissions stripped, cleaned and rebuilt my box. they also sent the torque converter off to be cut open, refurbished, and welded back together....

they had a split torque converter on the reception desk, i'll post the pics when i upload them!

[sorepaws]

Jonathan,
Let me know when you want to rebuild my gearbox - I think I would trust you more than anyone. Well done and congrats on getting the car back on the road.
Regards
M

[nigel]

Bloody He!!, I sure am glad I have a manual gearbox.
Top marks for sticking with it to the end.

Cheers
nigel

[britlude]

just to bring this to a conclusion, the gearbox from Australia arrived this afternoon, so i've a spare! hurrah!

also while i was at JT Transmissions for the 500mile check, i took a couple of pics of a torque converter on their reception desk...

how we normally see them
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn41/thisYup/nsx%20stuff/gearbox%20july%202012/2012-09-03-1637.jpg

with the top lifted off...
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn41/thisYup/nsx%20stuff/gearbox%20july%202012/2012-09-03-1638.jpg

and the inside of the 'lid'
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn41/thisYup/nsx%20stuff/gearbox%20july%202012/2012-09-03-1639.jpg

just a little bit more complicated than you'd imagine!

[Nick Graves]

...then there's the lock-up plate & springs behind the TC itself.