Silver '91 manual - just appeared and disappeared

[goldtop]

At the risk of informing other competitive buyers (!), my daily searches have turned up a silver '91 manual coupe with 54000m for sale as an Approved Used car at a Honda dealer in Grantham. It's on PH and was on AT (which then disappeared). At £19495/£18995 depending on which ad you believe.

(edit) just had a call back - taken off sale while they decide what work it needs to be sold as Approved Used. Sales guy says it's likely to be repriced :)

If possible I will go and see it tomorrow or this weekend (it's about 1.5hrs away).

Research has revealed only a snap ring failure as an early-model-specific potential fault, so I will check the transmission number and range (anyone have a photo showing where I need to look?)

On such sketchy info, I don't suppose anyone knows the car? Number plate was hidden in the photos I saw, but the serial was T0000000033.

[Sudesh]

lol we'll worded by the dealer! Suspect it will re-appear at much increased value as it was cheap for a manual and by a Honda dealer. Maybe they did a bit of research and relised it was too cheap lo

I have a photo but its on my other computer, but check here, might help


http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/DIY/engine_transmission_vin.htm



At the risk of informing other competitive buyers (!), my daily searches have turned up a silver '91 manual coupe with 54000m for sale as an Approved Used car at a Honda dealer in Grantham. It's on PH and was on AT (which then disappeared). At £19495/£18995 depending on which ad you believe.

(edit) just had a call back - taken off sale while they decide what work it needs to be sold as Approved Used. Sales guy says it's likely to be repriced :)

If possible I will go and see it tomorrow or this weekend (it's about 1.5hrs away).

Research has revealed only a snap ring failure as an early-model-specific potential fault, so I will check the transmission number and range (anyone have a photo showing where I need to look?)

On such sketchy info, I don't suppose anyone knows the car? Number plate was hidden in the photos I saw, but the serial was T0000000033.

[Senninha]

http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.php?688-Want-to-buy-an-NSX-Start-here-please

Goldtop,

There are a couple of buying guide checklists here that you could print and take with you to help you fully check the car over. Your eyes should see the obvious but as its a Honda dealer it could help you when putting together the deal. Dont forget to consider age related service items that the dealer wouldn't factor into the deal such as hoses, caliper overhaul, battery age and tyre age (low mileage could mean they've been on there many years).

Good luck

[goldtop]

Thanks - have printed out the checklists and been through a lot of the tech articles here (long time lurker!)

So many cars are known to the club (for good and for bad reasons it seems) that I will also keep in touch here for advice.

[Senninha]

I cant recall (too tired) if mentioned before, but Andy at VtecDirect has an interesing 1 owner car for sale ... early 20's I believe ..

[Sudesh]

I cant recall (too tired) if mentioned before, but Andy at VtecDirect has an interesing 1 owner car for sale ... early 20's I believe ..

He has 2 cars!

[scottg]

At the risk of informing other competitive buyers (!), my daily searches have turned up a silver '91 manual coupe with 54000m for sale as an Approved Used car at a Honda dealer in Grantham. It's on PH and was on AT (which then disappeared). At £19495/£18995 depending on which ad you believe.




(edit) just had a call back - taken off sale while they decide what work it needs to be sold as Approved Used. Sales guy says it's likely to be repriced :)

If possible I will go and see it tomorrow or this weekend (it's about 1.5hrs away).

Research has revealed only a snap ring failure as an early-model-specific potential fault, so I will check the transmission number and range (anyone have a photo showing where I need to look?)

On such sketchy info, I don't suppose anyone knows the car? Number plate was hidden in the photos I saw, but the serial was T0000000033.

Interesting to see Pistonheads pull through the stats on cars and they must know something about this car based upon the 0-62 time. I always understood the 0 -60 was under 6 seconds so the next 2 mph must be painfull, also not impressed with the claimed top speed based upon their data!!
Specification PistonHeads essentials

Engine layout: Mid Engined
Aspiration: Normally Aspirated
Engine size (Litres): 3.0
Engine configuration: V6
Cylinder layout: V
Cylinders: 6
Engine power (BHP): 270
Torque (lbs/ft): 100
Top speed (MPH): 111
Acceleration: 0 to 62 in 11.1 seconds
Gears: 5
Driven wheels: Rear Wheel Drive

The detail

Mileage: 54,558
Year: 1991
Doors: 2
Body type: Coupe
Transmission type: Manual
Fuel type: Petrol
Colour: Silver
Vehicle height (mm): 1810
Vehicle width (mm): 1175
First registered: 01/01/1991

[Sudesh]

lol

Top speed must be for a JDM car that still has the limiter. I know a few members here have well exceeded that, on track of course.



Interesting to see Pistonheads pull through the stats on cars and they must know something about this car based upon the 0-62 time. I always understood the 0 -60 was under 6 seconds so the next 2 mph must be painfull, also not impressed with the claimed top speed based upon their data!!
Specification PistonHeads essentials

Engine layout: Mid Engined
Aspiration: Normally Aspirated
Engine size (Litres): 3.0
Engine configuration: V6
Cylinder layout: V
Cylinders: 6
Engine power (BHP): 270
Torque (lbs/ft): 100
Top speed (MPH): 111
Acceleration: 0 to 62 in 11.1 seconds
Gears: 5
Driven wheels: Rear Wheel Drive

The detail

Mileage: 54,558
Year: 1991
Doors: 2
Body type: Coupe
Transmission type: Manual
Fuel type: Petrol
Colour: Silver
Vehicle height (mm): 1810
Vehicle width (mm): 1175
First registered: 01/01/1991

[/LIST]

[WhyOne?]

lol

Top speed must be for a JDM car that still has the limiter. I know a few members here have well exceeded that, on track of course.

And the 0-60?

Presumably because its Silver?

[goldtop]

He has 2 cars!

Yes, I've been in touch with Andy. Both are potentially interesting, the green one moreso.

[NSXGB]

At the risk of informing other competitive buyers (!), my daily searches have turned up a silver '91 manual coupe with 54000m for sale as an Approved Used car at a Honda dealer in Grantham. It's on PH and was on AT (which then disappeared). At £19495/£18995 depending on which ad you believe.

(edit) just had a call back - taken off sale while they decide what work it needs to be sold as Approved Used. Sales guy says it's likely to be repriced :)

If possible I will go and see it tomorrow or this weekend (it's about 1.5hrs away).

Research has revealed only a snap ring failure as an early-model-specific potential fault, so I will check the transmission number and range (anyone have a photo showing where I need to look?)

On such sketchy info, I don't suppose anyone knows the car? Number plate was hidden in the photos I saw, but the serial was T0000000033.

Only a couple of small things to add but the top windscreen moulding if not replaced, and has shrunk, could be worth a few quid off in your favour....also the crank pulley - check the service records if possible.

[Unregistered]

Hello,

I thought I should reply to this post as I am the Sales Manager at Grantham Honda, where the orginal car in this post was advertised.

The car has been pulled from sale at the moment. It was originally advertised before the car had come in to stock. Part of being a large group is unfortunately as soon as we have the information all of our cars are advertised. (Including Pistonheads, who supply all of their own data and won't let us amend it!) The car has now been removed from the internet following a Honda Approval check, which has highlighted some work that the car needs. At the moment the NSX is going in for diagnostics, as the ABS light comes on after about 5 minutes of driving. until we know what is causing this the car can not be advertised. Obviously if it is a sensor or something minor we will re-advertise the car straight away, worst case is it needs a new modulator. If this is the case we will have to either trade out of the car, or increase the retail price to cover our costs. The car was genuinely valued and appraised, but due to this I can not currently honour the original advertised price, which is why we had to remove the car from sale.

The history for this car is huge, with every MOT ever carried out, newspaper clippings and photos from the original owner, including one of the NSX parked next to Senna's F1 car! The car really is in excellent condition. The previous owner had it for 10 years, and covered just 20,000 miles in this time. A large amount of the history has been carried out by ourselves. We are one of the few NSX approved Honda dealers in the country, as we are lucky enough to have a Honda Master technician working here who looks after all the NSXs and S2000s that come in to the dealership.

The car is currently on Pirelli tyres, so I would be replacing these with 4 new Honda approved tyres. The previous owner bought his parts from America, and we just charged the labour to service the car. I am still waiting on some of the service history so we can confirm what service was carried out last, as all I have on our system is the labour charged. We should be in a position by the end of the day to know what we will be doing with the car.

I hope this helps, and disspells any thoughts that I am just trying to raise the price of the car with no valid reason! It was originally advertised at a price I was happy with, and believed was certainly very competitive. Hopefully we will be able to sell the car at a very similar price, all depending on what our diagnostics returns. Obviously I will be happy to provide a full list and explanation of any work that we do carry out on the NSX before we sell it, which will back-up any price increase that is necessary from the original advertised price.

Thanks for reading, any questions please don't hesitate to contact me directly, on 01476 575777. Ask for Michael.

[goldtop]

Sounds reasonable, Michael. I had a call from someone on your sales team (I don't have my notes in front of me at the moment, so can't recall the name - might have been 'Harry') on Friday and was promised a follow-up call when the decision is made.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Barry

[Unregistered]

So far diagnosed as an ABS pump, not a modulator, so good news so far. Just awaiting final quote for all the work the car needs and a check on availablilty on the parts. Once I have that information I will post the details on here for you, with a list of what will be completed on the car.

Thanks,

Michael.

[Unregistered]

Hello,

I thought I should reply to this post as I am the Sales Manager at Grantham Honda, where the orginal car in this post was advertised.

The car has been pulled from sale at the moment. It was originally advertised before the car had come in to stock. Part of being a large group is unfortunately as soon as we have the information all of our cars are advertised. (Including Pistonheads, who supply all of their own data and won't let us amend it!) The car has now been removed from the internet following a Honda Approval check, which has highlighted some work that the car needs. At the moment the NSX is going in for diagnostics, as the ABS light comes on after about 5 minutes of driving. until we know what is causing this the car can not be advertised. Obviously if it is a sensor or something minor we will re-advertise the car straight away, worst case is it needs a new modulator. If this is the case we will have to either trade out of the car, or increase the retail price to cover our costs. The car was genuinely valued and appraised, but due to this I can not currently honour the original advertised price, which is why we had to remove the car from sale.

The history for this car is huge, with every MOT ever carried out, newspaper clippings and photos from the original owner, including one of the NSX parked next to Senna's F1 car! The car really is in excellent condition. The previous owner had it for 10 years, and covered just 20,000 miles in this time. A large amount of the history has been carried out by ourselves. We are one of the few NSX approved Honda dealers in the country, as we are lucky enough to have a Honda Master technician working here who looks after all the NSXs and S2000s that come in to the dealership.

The car is currently on Pirelli tyres, so I would be replacing these with 4 new Honda approved tyres. The previous owner bought his parts from America, and we just charged the labour to service the car. I am still waiting on some of the service history so we can confirm what service was carried out last, as all I have on our system is the labour charged. We should be in a position by the end of the day to know what we will be doing with the car.

I hope this helps, and disspells any thoughts that I am just trying to raise the price of the car with no valid reason! It was originally advertised at a price I was happy with, and believed was certainly very competitive. Hopefully we will be able to sell the car at a very similar price, all depending on what our diagnostics returns. Obviously I will be happy to provide a full list and explanation of any work that we do carry out on the NSX before we sell it, which will back-up any price increase that is necessary from the original advertised price.

Thanks for reading, any questions please don't hesitate to contact me directly, on 01476 575777. Ask for Michael.


Very strange...

Considering I spoke to you regarding this car this morning & you advised me it was going to require a replacement clutch, timing 'chain' (which I then advised you being a belt), & ABS modulator. You then told me that the car was going to be re-advertised at 25,995 and you had a list of potential buyers ready at that price, even after I offered you the full asking price for the car in it's current condition as a trade sale to save you carrying out the above work.

How about the truth?


Regards

John.

[Unregistered]

Hello again,

The car has finally been approved and does need some work. To get started:

ABS Pump
75,000 miles service, inc;
Oil Filter
Spark plugs
Timing Belt
Brake Fluid
all filters
4 new Bridgestone tyres
new battery including earth strap Trunk stays and openers
new steering rack end
12 months MOT
A/C Decontamination

Total bill to me of £3260.98

The car is going back on the internet now. Due to extensive work needed to get it to Honda Approval standards the car will be advertised at £23995.00

any questions please don't hesitate to contact me.

Regards,

Michael.

[Unregistered]

Very strange...

Considering I spoke to you regarding this car this morning & you advised me it was going to require a replacement clutch, timing 'chain' (which I then advised you being a belt), & ABS modulator. You then told me that the car was going to be re-advertised at 25,995 and you had a list of potential buyers ready at that price, even after I offered you the full asking price for the car in it's current condition as a trade sale to save you carrying out the above work.

How about the truth?


Regards

John.

I mentioned possible clutch to you John. The clutch has been tested and is absolutely fine. I'm not a technician, so I did get chain and belt mixed up, as most modern Honda engines have chains not belts. We were expecting the cost to make the retail price £24995.00 as I quoted you, not £25995.00. As discussed I'm not intertested in trading the car. Would love it to go to a good home as it is a superb example.

[Unregistered]

I mentioned possible clutch to you John. The clutch has been tested and is absolutely fine. I'm not a technician, so I did get chain and belt mixed up, as most modern Honda engines have chains not belts. We were expecting the cost to make the retail price £24995.00 as I quoted you, not £25995.00. As discussed I'm not intertested in trading the car. Would love it to go to a good home as it is a superb example.


Considering it's being sold through a Honda main dealer, the whole scenario appears rather strange & unprofessional to me, however I wish you good luck with the sale.

Regards

John.

[Unregistered]

Now sold, thanks for all your comments.

Regards,

Michael.

[scottg]

Now sold, thanks for all your comments.

Regards,

Michael.

Are you the buyer Goldtop?

[goldtop]

Are you the buyer Goldtop?

Nope. I was called mid-afternoon and the first news was the price hike - as predicted (although not quite 18995+3260!). I said I'd rearrange tomorrow morning's appointments so I could come over straight away to see it. Then I got a call back and was told that, actually, if I wanted first option I would have to pay a £500 deposit RIGHT NOW.

I'm not open to being played quite so brazenly as this, so in the words of Duncan Bannatyne, "I'm oot".

So I'm still looking.

[scottg]

Nope. I was called mid-afternoon and the first news was the price hike - as predicted (although not quite 18995+3260!). I said I'd rearrange tomorrow morning's appointments so I could come over straight away to see it. Then I got a call back and was told that, actually, if I wanted first option I would have to pay a £500 deposit RIGHT NOW.

I'm not open to being played quite to brazenly as this, so in the words of Duncan Bannatyne, "I'm oot".

So I'm still looking.

Shame. The yellow targa looks interesting at 22k

[Sudesh]

Well nothing too shocking to read lol as predicted it would raise in value,

Personally I would have the yellow car long before this one.

[nobby]

Agreed (but biased)

I can't believe the yellow car is still available based on the no of people wanting a good clean manual variant

Mad!


hopefully the new owner of silver car makes themselves known to forum


Well nothing too shocking to read lol as predicted it would raise in value,

Personally I would have the yellow car long before this one.

[dmdefurey]

Hi everybody,

I am the person who has just bought this NSX.

Does anybody know a good independent specialist who knows these cars well in the Grantham area, or willing to travel to the Grantham area?

Also, does anyone know anything of the history of this car? It is still on its original registration plate: H870 ARR

Here is a picture I found on the internet of this car at the Silverstone Classic on the 25th July 2010:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/45676495@N05/5214431233/

Thanks in advance for any useful information.

[Sudesh]

Hi everybody,

I am the person who has just bought this NSX.

Does anybody know a good independent specialist who knows these cars well in the Grantham area, or willing to travel to the Grantham area?

Also, does anyone know anything of the history of this car? It is still on its original registration plate: H870 ARR

Here is a picture I found on the internet of this car at the Silverstone Classic on the 25th July 2010:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/45676495@N05/5214431233/

Thanks in advance for any useful information.

Hi And welcome to the club!

Bit curious as to why you need an independent specialist already, seeing as the dealer mentioned it was going to have allot of work completed before its sold?



Hello again,

The car has finally been approved and does need some work. To get started:

ABS Pump
75,000 miles service, inc;
Oil Filter
Spark plugs
Timing Belt
Brake Fluid
all filters
4 new Bridgestone tyres
new battery including earth strap Trunk stays and openers
new steering rack end
12 months MOT
A/C Decontamination

Total bill to me of £3260.98

The car is going back on the internet now. Due to extensive work needed to get it to Honda Approval standards the car will be advertised at £23995.00

any questions please don't hesitate to contact me.

Regards,

Michael.

[NSXGB]

Being a total cynic, I would check all that has been mentioned above has been done before you pay up in full!

BTW. Welcome and congratulations on securing the fastest colour NSX.

[duncan]

I know nothing of the car or its condition, equally I know nothing about the dealer.
The Dealer said. . ."Total bill to me of £3260.98. . . including 4 new Brigestone tyres". . . .
A check on the Lings website will show that as a HUK parts, for H870ARR, a set of 4 specified tyres would set you back a total of £5,446.96. At £1,221-90 each for the fronts and £1,501.58 for each of the rears those tyres must be very special and/or the dealer discount very, very significant.
Notwithstanding an introduction to HUK parts pricing, welcome and enjoy the car.

[Dragonlady]

Congrats on your purchase. We went and had a look at this car on Saturday as it is where we have ours serviced. They are a very good garage and look after a few NSX's, they have a rare breed of technician there, a qualified NSX guy called Dave. when we spoke with them on Saturday the car was booked in for a full check over by Dave today to find and rectify any issues.
We had a good look around the car and through all the paper work it had, what a good buy this car is! Body is really straight with hardly any stone chipping on the front, no sign of any oxidisation on the body anywhere we could see, full tool kit and original spare. Their is a bit of wear on the bollster on the driver seat but the leather is not torn and the bollsters are still solid.
And as a bonus you should get a full year warrenty with the car.
Happy motoring and hope to see you at a few meets.

Regards Ian

[goldtop]

Congrats to the new owner of this silver one. :)


I can't believe the yellow car is still available based on the no of people wanting a good clean manual variant



Owner has already sold the yellow targa one.

[nobby]

Very well done on the purchase, sounds a good genuine example.

as for the yellow car ... Glad it sold ... Looked really nice indeed


Congrats to the new owner of this silver one. :)



Owner has already sold the yellow targa one.

[Sudesh]

No surprise the yellow one is sold already, it was too cheap lol

[scottg]

Hi everybody,

I am the person who has just bought this NSX.

Does anybody know a good independent specialist who knows these cars well in the Grantham area, or willing to travel to the Grantham area?

Also, does anyone know anything of the history of this car? It is still on its original registration plate: H870 ARR

Here is a picture I found on the internet of this car at the Silverstone Classic on the 25th July 2010:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/45676495@N05/5214431233/

Thanks in advance for any useful information.
Well done. The dealer has a standard they must work to and a warranty as. Main dealer so the car will be prepped well. I hope to see you next year at some.of he events whee are you based

cheers
scott

[Dmdefurey]

Many thanks to all of you that have replied to my post.

Sudesh - The main reason for getting an independent inspection is not so much to check the mechanicals as the body itself for signs of previous accident damage. It has since been revealed by the dealer that this car might have had a new wing as a result of "minor" accident damage. I will discover more details tomorrow about this.

Dragonlady - I hope the car is as good as you say it is!

Scottg - I live in West Yorkshire. Where is the nearest meet?

The dealer has only listed the timing belt to be changed. The last time the timing belt and water pump were changed appears to have been 9 years ago. Do you think that the water pump, crankshaft pulley, tensioner & spring, alternator belt and A/C belts should be changed as well as most of these have to be removed anyway to get to the timing belt don't they? I have read that these parts are a lot cheaper in USA?

I think this car is on its original clutch. It has covered 55,000 miles over a 21 year period. Is there likely to be life left in this clutch?

I originally said that this car was on its original number plate: H870 ARR. This is incorrect. The original plate was changed immediately by the first owner to "HRD 7". Later, it became "SHO 55".

What type of Bridgestone tyres would you recommend for this car?

It looks like it will not require a countershaft bearing snap ring as the gearbox serial number falls outside of the range affected (J4A4-1001202).

I have learnt quite a bit about NSXs in a very short space of time as I feel it is in my interests given the price of this car.

Does everyone out there still think it is good value at £23,995?

[PeterW]

A manual car with that mileage and the Honda approval behind it, I think it's good value. Relax and enjoy it!
Peter

[WhyOne?]

Agree with Peter. In the current market you would be very fortunate indeed to get a car like this significantly cheaper. Enjoy owning an example of this wonderful car.

[NSXGB]

The dealer has only listed the timing belt to be changed. The last time the timing belt and water pump were changed appears to have been 9 years ago. Do you think that the water pump, crankshaft pulley, tensioner & spring, alternator belt and A/C belts should be changed as well as most of these have to be removed anyway to get to the timing belt don't they? I have read that these parts are a lot cheaper in USA?

For peace of mind get all that changed. Timing belt interval is 5 years for that age of car. WP should always be changed at the same time.
Much cheaper in the USA, search the forum for Nic Terrey or Tim Poliniak for contact details on here of two respected OEM Acura parts suppliers.

Congrats and welcome.

[scottg]

Many thanks to all of you that have replied to my post.

Sudesh - The main reason for getting an independent inspection is not so much to check the mechanicals as the body itself for signs of previous accident damage. It has since been revealed by the dealer that this car might have had a new wing as a result of "minor" accident damage. I will discover more details tomorrow about this.

Dragonlady - I hope the car is as good as you say it is!

Scottg - I live in West Yorkshire. Where is the nearest meet?

The dealer has only listed the timing belt to be changed. The last time the timing belt and water pump were changed appears to have been 9 years ago. Do you think that the water pump, crankshaft pulley, tensioner & spring, alternator belt and A/C belts should be changed as well as most of these have to be removed anyway to get to the timing belt don't they? I have read that these parts are a lot cheaper in USA?

I think this car is on its original clutch. It has covered 55,000 miles over a 21 year period. Is there likely to be life left in this clutch?

I originally said that this car was on its original number plate: H870 ARR. This is incorrect. The original plate was changed immediately by the first owner to "HRD 7". Later, it became "SHO 55".

What type of Bridgestone tyres would you recommend for this car?

It looks like it will not require a countershaft bearing snap ring as the gearbox serial number falls outside of the range affected (J4A4-1001202).

I have learnt quite a bit about NSXs in a very short space of time as I feel it is in my interests given the price of this car.

Does everyone out there still think it is good value at £23,995?



well done on your new purchase I think for a car coming out of a Honda main dealer the price is fair and you will have the reassurance of excellent after sales support.
As for events in West Yorkshire I am a softy southerner I am afraid living in Poole so I am not the best to ask. Japfest at castle Combe was a great nsx gathering last year but you do have to dodge the thousands of Subaru drivers etc wearing caps and hoodies. Silverstone classic was also a good turn out although as a motor racing event it can,t touch the Goodwood revival.
when do you expect to collect your new toy?

[vtecdirect]

Have been chatting with David the new owner and helped him out with some tech questions, parts prices and availability.
Best of luck with your new purchase fella, am sure its a great car.

And for those wondering, my green car has had a full bare metal respray and will be ready next week, just have to do the ccu refresh and thats it done.

[Dragonlady]

So Dmdefurey have you joined the rest of the "super fast, sebring silver nsx owners"?

Sharon

[dmdefurey]

A quick update for everybody.

Nothing is straightforward is it? Upon speaking to Michael at Grantham Honda today he has provided me with a more in-depth report on the minor accident.

Whilst at Lincoln Honda in October 2009 for some service/maintenance work it appears that whoever took it out for a road test afterwards lost control of the car and subsequently damaged it.

Michael told me that a dent had to be removed from the near side rear quarter panel and that the rear bumper had to be painted (I presume that the rear quarter panel had to be painted as well). In addition, the near side front wing had to be re-aligned and painted. All the wheels were refurbished as well. He said that the car was put on a jig but it revealed no chassis damage. All the work was done at Central Motors, a Honda Approved bodyshop.

I asked Michael to send me a detailed list of all the parts which Lincoln Honda used for the repair, which he did. I was somewhat surprised at the number of parts used and the total cost, over £6,500! I was also surprised to find that the parts list comprised of things for the front and side of the car, but not for the rear.

The parts fall into 7 categories: Front bumper, side moulding, air conditioning, front bulkhead, radiator, lights & speakers.

Lots of separate components which make up the entire front bumper/spoiler section which come to about £2000. The LH side sill moulding approx. £500. A/C parts including L & R condensers, cooling fan motor and shroud which add up to approx. £1000. L & R stays and a NSF frame in the front bulkhead section which total approx. £700. A radiator at £500, 2 front fog lights for £450 and L & R Bose speaker enclosure assemblies totalling some £700.

I guess £6,500 doesn't get you a lot when they happen to be NSX parts and this of course excludes labour because the Honda garage footed the bill.

This has come as a bit of a dampener and I am having second thoughts whether to go ahead with the purchase. On the upside, the car has benefitted from some new parts and I am not 100% sure which parts were used for the accident repair and which parts were used for servicing work as it was in for a service at the time. The association of the parts suggests to me that most of them were used for the accident repair work. On the downside, well it's been in an accident hasn't it? I have been told that it is not recorded as Cat C or D on the HPI report.

What should I expect for a 21 year old NSX? Is this typical of what is out there for £24K? Are there likely to be better examples for similar money, now or in the future? Does the accident damage appear to be light and therefore of no consequence? Is its value likely to be affected by what's happened?

A lot of questions I know but I would welcome any advice right now before I make a final decision.

Regards,

David

[Sudesh]

That appears to be quite a bit of damage from what I read! Was the quarter panel pulled and filled? Was the rear bumper filled too? Surprised if this was part of the damage while in a Honda dealers hands, that it wasn't just replaced, assuming the person test driving was an employee of that dealer. If my car was at a dealers and this happened, I wouldn't be accepting any form of panels being pulled and filled etc, in fact Im not even sure I would want the car back.

Also if the repair work wasn't claimed against insurance, then it wouldn't be categorized, just means someone fitted the bill from their own pocket. Value of the car at the time against the repair cost is what the insurers would look at.

[Sudesh]

So basically all of this:

dent had to be removed from the near side rear quarter panel
rear bumper had to be painted
Wheels repaired/painted [presume some got damaged?]
near side front wing had to be re-aligned and painted

The parts fall into 7 categories: Front bumper, side moulding, air conditioning, front bulkhead, radiator, lights & speakers.

The LH side sill moulding approx. £500. A/C parts including L & R condensers, cooling fan motor and shroud which add up to approx. £1000. L & R stays and a NSF frame in the front bulkhead section which total approx. £700. A radiator at £500, 2 front fog lights for £450.

I guess I would need to have a long hard think about it, see how good the repair/paint is and weight all up against the value of the car, may still be worth buying.

[goldtop]

Nothing is straightforward is it? Upon speaking to Michael at Grantham Honda today he has provided me with a more in-depth report on the minor accident.

Whilst at Lincoln Honda in October 2009 for some service/maintenance work it appears that whoever took it out for a road test afterwards lost control of the car and subsequently damaged it.


Well, Lincoln Honda and Grantham Honda are part of the same company (Vertu Honda), so I'm sure Michael could put you in direct touch with the relevant bods. They can't have crashed that many NSXs to forget the details. (Presume the one who thought he'd explore the car's limits got relegated to valet work...)

[dmdefurey]

Well, Lincoln Honda and Grantham Honda are part of the same company (Vertu Honda), so I'm sure Michael could put you in direct touch with the relevant bods. They can't have crashed that many NSXs to forget the details. (Presume the one who thought he'd explore the car's limits got relegated to valet work...)



I think the person who explored the car's limits got relegated to the Job Centre!

[Unregistered]

As mentioned in a previous post, the manner this car was sold by the dealer appeared suspicious & now this has come to light... be cautious.

[Dragonlady]

I am very disappointed that Grantham Honda failed to mention the damage to the car, sorry if we misled you that was not our intention.


We had heard a rumour about a mechanic at Lincoln showing off to an apprentice in a NSX sometime ago. Apparently he lost control and put the car through a hedge into a field. The person no longer works at the garage, however that said we would never take our cars to Lincoln Honda as we have had problems in the past with them with our Accord Coupe.

Even though Grantham are part of the same group I have never had any problems with them, and I know that there are other NSX owners who take their cars to Grantham and have nothing but praise for them. That said I am still upset that they failed to give the full picture on this car to us.


Tough decision, not sure what I would do.


Sharon

[vtecdirect]

Best pop down and take a look at mine then David ;-). Just had full baremetal restorative respray, no filler anywhere on the car, one owner from new, 5 years newer than the silver one, Is the later spec with the wheels you like, and just had all the work required done.
Sorry blatant plug lol

[dmdefurey]

After careful consideration last night (and through the night!) I have decided not to go ahead with the purchase of this car. I know I wouldn't be fully happy with it knowing what's happened.

I informed the garage about 10 minutes ago. No doubt you will see the car re-advertised shortly, so if anyone's interested...

[Nick Graves]

I am very disappointed that Grantham Honda failed to mention the damage to the car, sorry if we misled you that was not our intention.


We had heard a rumour about a mechanic at Lincoln showing off to an apprentice in a NSX sometime ago. Apparently he lost control and put the car through a hedge into a field. The person no longer works at the garage, however that said we would never take our cars to Lincoln Honda as we have had problems in the past with them with our Accord Coupe.

Even though Grantham are part of the same group I have never had any problems with them, and I know that there are other NSX owners who take their cars to Grantham and have nothing but praise for them. That said I am still upset that they failed to give the full picture on this car to us.


Tough decision, not sure what I would do.


Sharon

That sounds about consistent with the alleged damage.

I wouldn't mind, but the car is a pussycat - unless you're driving like a complete bell-end.

OP, I'd check the panel gaps (and paint match - silver can be a right bugger) extremely carefully. They are a sod to align correctly ant I've rejected many NSXs on that basis. Or get an independent check (DEKRA?) or somesuch. If you are desperate.

In fact, given the level of BS already, I'd be inclined to walk away. It's got smelly.

[nobby]

I think its fair to say and has been many times brought up and discussed on these boards about what accident damage is on a lot of NSX's about the country. And knowing the price of parts for this car when involved in any bodywork is a truly depressing thought. On the positive of this, the car has been fixed and professionaly repaired by this dealer. There appears to be NO insurance claims made against it so in theory it is a 'clean' car.

I would make them pay for a comprehensive inspection by an independent company who may be able to provide you more piece of mind

I have seen damamged reapired NSX's and they can be reapired really well and cause no issues

Yes surprised they did not come clean to you at the start about their group staff effectively going for a jolly and damaging a vehicle. I guess it comes down to this:

Have you set your heart truly on this car?
Can you live with knowing that the car has bee previously damaged but sounds like a good extensive repair has been done?
What assurances can the dealer give you that nothing is impacted on the car after this accident?

I guess if the above 2 issues are annoying you it may be wise to walk away.

But at the same time you obviously like the car and other owners here have seen the car and thought it was in good nick

It will boil down to how much you want an NSX I guess.

At least you have the option of either Andy's car above, or you could seek out that lovely yellow targa that was recently snapped up

Bit of a bummer the whole process you have come this far to be dealt a blow like that

[goldtop]

Can it be that bad? Surely the NSX specialist at Grantham would have been involved in checking that the car was done to Honda's own quality standards? This was a 'halo car' so panel gaps, paint match, etc must have been perfect. Or do I assume too much?

Presume you didn't lose your deposit on this (it being a significant and undisclosed issue). I thought it was a bit rich when the dealer was pressuring me for the £500 deposit without even seeing the car.

[dmdefurey]

Can it be that bad? Surely the NSX specialist at Grantham would have been involved in checking that the car was done to Honda's own quality standards? This was a 'halo car' so panel gaps, paint match, etc must have been perfect. Or do I assume too much?

Presume you didn't lose your deposit on this (it being a significant and undisclosed issue). I thought it was a bit rich when the dealer was pressuring me for the £500 deposit without even seeing the car.


Yes, Michael at Honda Grantham has agreed to give me my deposit back. It was agreed from the beginning that my deposit would be refunded if I was not happy with the car in any way.

[Rash]

IMHO the fact that it was repaired by Honda should give you piece of mind. The fact it could have filled etc its a shame but without seeing the car I cant really make that judgement. What I would say is for the age of the car IMO it was overpriced for the selling price of £23995 considering the previous damage etc. The original price of £18k-£19k would still be a good fair price for the car if the dealer would sell if to you at that price.

Rash

[Senninha]

David,

Walk away and then walk over to the Charlotte one Andy at Vtec has ... with the service and cosmetic refresh thats been through, coupled with Andy's knowledge and reputation I suspect that one will be like picking a 'new' NSX ... I know where my money would go and then the only reason you will be awake at night is to think about the next drive out!

The NSX looks best in a dark colour anyway ;o)

regards, Paul

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Hi, dmdefurey.

Welcome to the club and sorry to hear that the things didn’t turn out in the way you wished for.

When buying the used car, you will need to make some compromise but the most important thing is, you need to be happy with your purchase.
From what I saw in the past, it will make big difference on how the owners look after their cars in the longer term.


I will focus on the technical side and there are lots of good information on our NSXCB site as well as on the NSX Prime.
Please use your own judgement on any info on the web as there are lots of good info but also the wrong ones as well.

You may find some useful info through my Blog as well as through the ‘NSX Technical and Service Information Index’ thread in the ‘Sticky’ section of the ‘Technical Forum’.


On NSX, there are lots of things that may not be highlighted by the seller or the garage.
For example, the main relay, coolant hoses, crank pulley, A/C climate control unit, Bose speaker AMP, drive shaft, window regulator, radiator, cooling fan control unit, compliance pivot, ball joints, etc, etc, etc.


Hope you will spend some time on here and go though the info to get further knowledge.
Even after more than 20years, I still learn something new on NSX.

Kaz

[dmdefurey]

Hi Kaz,

Thanks for the advice. Do you do pre-purchase inspections? If so, how much and which areas of the country do you/don't you cover?

David

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Hi, David.
I’m afraid I don’t offer so called ‘pre-purchase inspection’.

I was asked from many people to carry it out and even being offered substantial packages from abroad to travel and carry out the inspection as well as the mechanical services but I always declined the generous offer.

Please refer to my post on this as well.
http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/entry.php?689-My-Service


I have my own policy of treating all existing owners with same level of services and this will be the same for the potential new owner and the seller.

Even on the last production 2005 year model NSX, with my back ground, I’m almost 100% sure to find something wrong with the car that may disturb the seller.
On the other hand, with the limited available time for the inspection, I may not be able to spot something that could be one of the highest priorities for the buyer.
Also, some of the issues are not possible to spot without the removal of the parts.
So, these are the reason why I'm not offering the pre-purcahse inspection to be fair for both the seller as well as the buyer.


Having said this, I’m more than happy to answer any technical questions.
Every day, I’m answering many emails that were sent through this site as well as my safe email address that you can find in the Blog section as well as on NSX Prime.

If you have already completed the registration process on NSXCB site, you can just click on my user ID after you have logged into the site and select ‘contact via email’ option through the drop down menu.

If you haven’t completed the registration process or just visiting as a guest, you can still contact me at kaznsxcb-001@yahoo.co.jp or kaznsxprime-001@btinternet.com .

These are NOT my main address and they are just ‘safe’ one that I use to protect me from spam.
So, once these addresses start getting lots of spam, I’ll just throw them away and use different one.


Good luck with the hunt for your NSX and in the meantime, hope you will enjoy reading my posts and Blog on here.
That will take weeks, I guess, but it will provide you with what to look for when visiting the NSX that you may want to buy.

Kaz

[Dragonlady]

This car is now sold, anybody lurking in the shadows?

Ian

[Alpinestars]

Every cloud has a silver (or red in my case) lining.

I called Grantham the day it was put on autotrader and asked for details of the service history. I was called back later with the details, and I said I was very interested in it. I was called a hour or so later and told that they had had a huge amount of interest in the car, and coincidentally, it's been pulled because it needs work, cue we are going to put the price up.

I was called a couple of days later and the salesman left a message to say the new price would be 25,999, which was later "reduced" to 23,995. I called back to put a deposit down, but was told I had missed it by 2 minutes, having earlier been told by the salesman that I would be given first refusal on the basis that mine was the first enquiry and that I had stated I would buy the car if it was as described. I then got another voicemail (note to self that I must not leave my phone on silent) last Thursday saying that the buyer had pulled out because he could not fund the car (I now know that is not true), and that I could have it if I could get a deposit down immediately. I called back within 5 mins, to be told that I had missed it, by guess what, 2 mins! DOH. I left my card details with the salesman to say if the sale fell through again, just debit my card with the deposit so we could get on with it.

All very disingenuous by Grantham Honda. I was never told about the accident damage, when clearly the guy who put the first deposit down pulled out for that very reason. A bit naughty.

The rest is, history as they say. I bought the nice shiny red one being discussed on the other thread.

[scottg]

Every cloud has a silver (or red in my case) lining.

I called Grantham the day it was put on autotrader and asked for details of the service history. I was called back later with the details, and I said I was very interested in it. I was called a hour or so later and told that they had had a huge amount of interest in the car, and coincidentally, it's been pulled because it needs work, cue we are going to put the price up.

I was called a couple of days later and the salesman left a message to say the new price would be 25,999, which was later "reduced" to 23,995. I called back to put a deposit down, but was told I had missed it by 2 minutes, having earlier been told by the salesman that I would be given first refusal on the basis that mine was the first enquiry and that I had stated I would buy the car if it was as described. I then got another voicemail (note to self that I must not leave my phone on silent) last Thursday saying that the buyer had pulled out because he could not fund the car (I now know that is not true), and that I could have it if I could get a deposit down immediately. I called back within 5 mins, to be told that I had missed it, by guess what, 2 mins! DOH. I left my card details with the salesman to say if the sale fell through again, just debit my card with the deposit so we could get on with it.

All very disingenuous by Grantham Honda. I was never told about the accident damage, when clearly the guy who put the first deposit down pulled out for that very reason. A bit naughty.

The rest is, history as they say. I bought the nice shiny red one being discussed on the other thread.

That's more than a little naughty by a Honda main dealer, it would be interesting to see how the Dealer Principal viewed that line of approach and indeed what the new buyer has been told.

[Alpinestars]

It sounds like 2 of the salesmen were falling over each other to sell this, presumably to bag the commission, so glossed over the "details and truth" a bit.

[Alpinestars]

The plot thickens. I was offered the car again this afternoon!

[Nick Graves]

Congrats on getting the right one!

I guess you'll be offered the silver ghost on a regular basis from now on, as each prospective realises they're being punted up the garden path.

Honestly, no wonder stealers give the trade such a schitty reputation...

[Unregistered]

Love how people jump to conclusions and write so much sh!te on forums!

So if you were selling your car, would you say "yeah its been in an accident", if it hadn't been recorded / written off and the buyer didn't ask the question?

NO you wouldn't - Unless someone specifically asks.

Its a 21 year old car?!

[scottg]

Love how people jump to conclusions and write so much sh!te on forums!

So if you were selling your car, would you say "yeah its been in an accident", if it hadn't been recorded / written off and the buyer didn't ask the question?

NO you wouldn't - Unless someone specifically asks.

Its a 21 year old car?!
Spoken like a true car salesman!

[Senninha]

.......Love how people jump to conclusions and write so much sh!te on forums!......



About as much as people who hide behind anonymous posts ....

So much for the dealerships integrity ... I wonder if the dealer principal is aware of your antics ... or the damage this conduct does to the Honda brand.

Forums exist to provide support for members new and old and to offer guidance when buying products or services. Had they\you been selling a Civic that had received this damage some might be less concerned. However the car in question is Honda's halo car and as such the experience of ownership is as much about the driving as the history of each car.

As you point out, the car in question is 21yrs old so will like most cars of this age received some cosmetic or more major bodywork in its lifetime. This is not the issue. The issue is that the dealerships representatives attempted to hide the information and judging by the above post you\they are now less then happy that this information is in the public domain.

These actions further support the widely accepted view that there are very few salepeople in the motor trade anymore, simply order takers.

Sleep well when Grantham Honda when attempting to tuck up the next un-suspecting buyer who visits your dealership.

[Unregistered]

Have you actually read the thread?

The accident damage has been detailed fully by the SALES MANAGER.

It has never been "hidden".

[Senninha]

Have you actually read the thread?

The accident damage has been detailed fully by the SALES MANAGER.

It has never been "hidden".

it would appear that it is not I that has not actually read the thread ....

Firstly, your sales manager did NOT disclose the 'minor' accident in any of his 6 posts upto the point he announced the car sold.
Secondly, it was the first buyer that disclosed it had come to light after the sale that the car had been in a minor accident.

How about you spend your time actually doing the job your dealer principal enploys you to do. How about you consider doing some prospecting, you know, that activity that sales people do and actually contact people to generate business rather than sitting bored on a Sunday in the showroom hoping someone might pop in and place an order because the previous dealer couldn't close a deal either. This way instead of sitting in the showroom bored and surfing the net you might actually have some customers to talk too and surprise your DP with some new business.

If you want to get started, try looking at the file full of paper under your desk from the training course you went on ... you might learn something!

[Nick Graves]

Honestly, no wonder stealers give the trade such a schitty reputation...

...........

[goldtop]

Well, the accident was revealed late and rather begrudgingly, and only fully detailed after a sale had been agreed. Read the thread and you will hear that the dealer insisted on a £500 deposit simply to get to see the car first. I'd have wasted 4hrs of work time just to get there and back.

Go and read his current advert for it (yes, it's reappeared on AT at £23995) look past the glowing write-up; find any mention of any accident and I'll send you a cuddly toy. We all know it's buyer beware, but for a Honda Approved sale, you'd expect some peace of mind. Remember that this is not Arthur Daley Deluxe Conveyances of Peckham, this is a Honda main dealer.

[nobby]

Very sad state of affairs; yes the ad does say to contact the dealer re any questions but it allows for people to not ask the obvious question as its an official 'reputable' dealer. Sad this is written by a Honda dealer and you have to read the posts made on this thread from the employees to actually see what you are dealing with.

alot of good people work in dealerships across the country ... But I find sales people horrific to deal with ... Only one thing with them they want to squeeze you for everything and not disclose anything to you. It would be nice for the mgmt of this dealership to sort this mess out

[Alpinestars]

Have you actually read the thread?

The accident damage has been detailed fully by the SALES MANAGER.

It has never been "hidden".

Sorry but that is disingenuous at best. The first guy who pulled out did so because of the accident damage. I was told he pulled out because he could not afford it. I was never told about the accident repair. Bear in mind I have been offered the car on 3 separate occasions.

[Sudesh]

it would appear that it is not I that has not actually read the thread ....

Firstly, your sales manager did NOT disclose the 'minor' accident in any of his 6 posts upto the point he announced the car sold.
Secondly, it was the first buyer that disclosed it had come to light after the sale that the car had been in a minor accident.

How about you spend your time actually doing the job your dealer principal enploys you to do. How about you consider doing some prospecting, you know, that activity that sales people do and actually contact people to generate business rather than sitting bored on a Sunday in the showroom hoping someone might pop in and place an order because the previous dealer couldn't close a deal either. This way instead of sitting in the showroom bored and surfing the net you might actually have some customers to talk too and surprise your DP with some new business.

If you want to get started, try looking at the file full of paper under your desk from the training course you went on ... you might learn something!


Sorry but that is disingenuous at best. The first guy who pulled out did so because of the accident damage. I was told he pulled out because he could not afford it. I was never told about the accident repair. Bear in mind I have been offered the car on 3 separate occasions.

Well said Paul!

Also not great practice from a dealer discussing the means why someone pulled out of the deal.

Hopefully these guys won't be selling the NEW NSX lol

[simonprelude]

I would and did, I wouldn't even let anyone view the car without providing details of the damage etc.
Partly because I didn't want to waste anyones time but also because I didn't want to waste my time.


Love how people jump to conclusions and write so much sh!te on forums!

So if you were selling your car, would you say "yeah its been in an accident", if it hadn't been recorded / written off and the buyer didn't ask the question?

NO you wouldn't - Unless someone specifically asks.

Its a 21 year old car?!

[Alpinestars]

It's back on PH with no description other than it's silver!

[nobby]

I did have a chuckle at that ... He can write plenty on auto trader and spout crap on here, so what's the issue with ph?


It's back on PH with no description other than it's silver!