NSX-R Clutch

[bbvnsx]

I Need some help regarding NSX-R clutch:

- Is the NA1 NSX-R clutch a direct "bolt on" on a NA1 NSX?

- Is NA1 NSX-R clutch the same as NA2 NSX-R (as I know Honda changed the 2002+ NSX-R clutch for the 6 spd gb)

- Anyone know the weight diference between OEM NA1 and NSX-R NA1 clutch, is it only the flywheel, or are there any other changes?

I've seen people upgrading to a lightweight flywheel, but if the car needed a new clutch (which is not my case for now) changing to NSX-R clutch could be a much more cost effective upgrade than OEM clutch + LW flywheel.

Anyone here done this upgrade and could share impressions on the NSX-R clutch?

Many Thanks
Bruno

[Sudesh]

On the JDM parts system, the complete clutch part number for the pre-facelift NSX-R, is the exact same as a pre-facelift standard car.

22000-PR7-305

I have a NSX in for work at the moment, it's completely standard UK car. The clutch on this particular car has the nicest feeling of any other I've ever driven, it's so light you could almost tap it in with your finger.

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Hi, Bruno.

I don’t know from where you got the info but there is no such thing as NA1 Type-R/NSX-R clutch (CL).

As Sudesh mentioned, it is exactly the same as the one used on other 5MT models and thus, it will ‘bolt on’ on any 5MT models including NA1 Type-R.


For NA2 NSX-R, you can’t buy just the CL.

It is DYNAMICALLY balanced as a set of crank pulley, TB drive pulley, crank shaft, flywheel and CL components.
Therefore, even if you want to just replace the CL, you will be asked to replace all of the above parts at the same time (yes, crank shaft as well) if you follow the Honda text book.




https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-X5djCVrOR-w/T0kEqxOwHHI/AAAAAAAAA18/EH_XbfzXDrg/s640/02Rcrank.jpg
For NA2 NSX-R, if you forgot to double check the price on the display and just typed in the parts no. that showed the CL in the diagram, then after some long waiting time, a package containing these beautiful pieces will arrive at your place (photo, courtesy of Mr Toyoizumi at KSP Engineering in Japan). From left to right, the crank pulley, TB drive pulley with metal plates, crank shaft, flywheel and the CL.

If you ignore the dynamic balancing process, as far as I know, the CL component design itself is the same as the NA1 Type-R CL.


When you talk about the lightweight parts, you need to look at the inertia as well.
Even if two CL are at the same weight, depending on the weight distribution around the centre line (inertia), the throttle response could be quite different between the two.

Also, you need to consider the material of CL and usage of your NSX.
If you go too light on the flywheel and if you mainly use your NSX on the street, then you may end up getting tired of paying attention to super fast rpm drop in order to prevent jerky CL engagement.

In order to prevent the juddery feeling or to prevent the judder for the life of CL, unless otherwise stated, it is better to engage the CL without slipping it if you have the metal or carbon material CL.
Hence, you may struggle in the stop and go traffic if you mainly use your NSX on the street. It may make some sound/noise depending on the design while in neutral with CL engaged.
On the other hand, you will love it when using it with on/off like engagement at high rpm.

OEM CL material doesn’t like the engagement at high rpm and it is better to use small amount of slip on engagement. If you do too many on/off like engagement at high rpm, it will cause juddery feeling.

Because of this characteristic, OEM CL is the all-arounder for most of the owners especially if you are using your NSX mainly on street.

You can just replace the flywheel with aftermarket lightweight one (but don’t go too light) to get better throttle response.


Kaz

[Sudesh]

That clutch looks simply beautifully!!

Never knew that about the NA2 NSX-R clutch, I'd like to buy that and just put it on my shelf just to look at.

[bbvnsx]

Thank you for the information!

If you look in here:

http://www.vtecdirect.com/online/cgi-bin/cp-app.cgi?seo=cat--Clutches-Covers-and-kits--hondaoem_Transmission_clutch

you will see the TYPE-R CL+flywheel for sale: £ 1.426 vs £ 1.297 (OEM), so i assumed that there was a diference (I thought it was mainly the flywheel)...


i guess diference was only: 22810-PR8-003 - NA1 NSX-R clutch release bearing

[Sudesh]

Release bearing is also the same on both types.

[Sudesh]

Thank you for the information!

If you look in here:

http://www.vtecdirect.com/online/cgi-bin/cp-app.cgi?seo=cat--Clutches-Covers-and-kits--hondaoem_Transmission_clutch

you will see the TYPE-R CL+flywheel for sale: £ 1.426 vs £ 1.297 (OEM), so i assumed that there was a diference (I thought it was mainly the flywheel)

I could be wrong, but on Andy's listing for the OEM clutch, it doesn't say the flywheel is included, so you may be getting confused on that point?

[bbvnsx]

It is DYNAMICALLY balanced as a set of crank pulley, TB drive pulley, crank shaft, flywheel and CL components.
Therefore, even if you want to just replace the CL, you will be asked to replace all of the above parts at the same time (yes, crank shaft as well) if you follow the Honda text book.

Speaking about balance and crank pulley, do you have any thoughts on the ATI Super Damper? I've seen almost only good reviews on this part... my balancer is almost 20 years and as next year I'm planing to do some extended maintenance to my 93MTNSX (~25.000 miles);like Timing Belt + Water Pump + Lost Motion Assembly + KSP Headers, I was considering also the ATI balancer...




You can just replace the flywheel with aftermarket lightweight one (but don’t go too light) to get better throttle response.

Would Toda (4.9 kg) or Jun (4.5 or 4.3Kg) be good choices?

Thank you

Bruno

[bbvnsx]

I could be wrong, but on Andy's listing for the OEM clutch, it doesn't say the flywheel is included, so you may be getting confused on that point?

Yes...and price difference could be due to this...

But one thing is good to know... we already have the NA1 TYPE-R Clutch on our cars :laugh::laugh:, so thats why my car feels so fast ...:laugh::laugh:

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

ATI Super Damper is well known, good quality and widely used for many applications.
The race team that I use for NSX alignment service has been running drag racing spec Supra for many years and they use ATI damper as well.

I wrote the following info many years ago and you can also find this in my NSX Technical and Service Information Index thread in the Technical Forum.

While it is true that the crank pulley rubber bonded weight is acting as the damper for sudden change in force from the AUX unit such as A/C compressor and so on, on our NSX, it is more to do with the protection for the TB itself.

This info was already posted on one of the Japanese website many years ago and in order to protect myself from any Intellectual Property issues due to my background, I’m just translating it and not supporting nor denying the contents.


When NSX engine was tested on the dyno, there was a resonance frequency on the TB at certain rpm.
If the engine was continuously kept at this rpm, there was a possibility of shortening the life of TB or cause other issues.
Under normal condition, it is almost impossible to keep the same rpm for long period while driving the NSX so one may be able to ignore this fact but as a production car company, it can not be ignored and thus, the design of OEM crank pulley was decided to shift the resonance point out of the usable rpm range.

Therefore, while ATI damper is a great product, I don’t know whether it has been designed and tested for long time with above point in mind.

Again, it is almost impossible to keep your engine at a certain rpm while on street or on track for long period so you may have no problem using the ATI damper and as for any aftermarket products, it’s up to the owners to make their decision.



I have never driven the Toda flywheel but I do have lots of driving experiences on JUN flywheel for both 4.3Kg and 4.5Kg with all sorts of different packages.

Depending on your other modifications, driving conditions and sensitivity, you may find it better to use 4.5Kg one especially if you are using your NSX mainly on the street.
TH response will change depending on your intake/exhaust/engine setup as well so you need to consider them as a single package.

One important thing with aftermarket flywheel.
You must check that the teeth angle where the starter gear engages has been properly treated for NSX usage.
Many years ago, one of the well known company sold the aftermarket flywheel and almost all of them caused annoying noise when starting the engine. Later, they modified the gear teeth angle and fixed the issue.


In Japan, there are many owners running OEM CL with JUN 4.5Kg fly and they seemed to be very happy.
You can't buy twin discs OEM CL without the flywheel so you are going to somewhat waste it if you are going for the aftermarket fly.

I have never driven or installed one but there seems to be good feedback on SoS CL (clutch + flywheel) as an option but it is best if you can try driving it before committing to it.

Kaz