Very Bad Service - Geo Collins Honda Herstmonceaux. Review of Poor Workmanship.

[NSXGB]

Advice appreciated…long story, make yourself comfortable.


I recently needed a cambelt service and my LMA’s changed at the same time. Got two quotes from Honda dealerships that professed to have experienced NSX trained mechanics. Both came back with identical prices for the work required so I chose the closest to my home which was around 50 miles away. Car was required for 3 days, courtesy car provided. Dropped car off & showed the service guy a crate full of all the new parts I supplied – water pump, cambelt, air filter, oil filter, plugs, tensioner & spring, gaskets galore, etc.

Middle of second day get a call from the service guy saying he could not stand by the quote as the engine needed to come out to remove the rocker shafts to get to the LMA’s and that the LMA’s I had supplied were the wrong part. I managed to get him the info required to persuade him he could do the job just as he’d priced and that the LMA’s were the correct part with useful photos from this site (thanks to all) – they had never seen the new LMA’s before. Deep breaths, calm down, all sorted…

Picked the car up at the end of the week on my way to work & drove 60 miles to my destination. Lunch time went for a mooch round the engine bay and found a coolant leak, level was still above MIN but coolant splashed around engine bay. Then I noticed an obscene amount of sealant around all of the cam plugs (has to be seen to be believed) – one in particular looked like someone had applied it after assembly very very generously & there were lumps on the surrounding wires and spool valve.
I then opened the boot to have a look to check the old parts and was greeted by the sight of….a load of new parts in my crate! New air filter, plugs but most disappointingly the new cambelt tensioner and spring.
I called the garage to air my concerns. Due to the distance to the garage I agreed with the service guy that I would check out the coolant leak and fix if it was easy to save me driving all the way there again with a leak. Regarding the cam plugs his answer was “I was waiting for a call about that”…great! He said bring it down & we will clean off the residue as it was only what had oozed out on fitting – BS. Regarding the parts not fitted - I only asked for the cambelt & LMA's to be changed apparently....glad they didn't apply the same logic for the water pump!


Went home that night, removed the coolant bottle to get to the hose that had not been seated correctly and re-seated the pipe clamp that was rubbing against the shielded electrical wire harness that goes through the firewall! Leak fixed. Decided to fit the air filter & plugs myself. Then I found that they had fitted the factory rear strut brace upside (it's stamped to shown how it should be fitted!) down & the engine earth strap had twisted when tightened & was now rubbing against the PCV hose…

Anyway, trying to keep this as concisce as possible, I have told them that I don’t feel that paying upwards of £1000 (labour only) for the service I have received is good value for money & after finding so many faults am worried about the parts that I can’t see. All they have offered me is to replace the coolant I used and to bring the car back for the sealant to be cleaned plus give me the petrol for the return visit.

Anyone who has not fallen asleep by now, where would you go from here?

Realistically I don’t see why I should pay a bean for the lousy service but I was suggesting some sort of reduction in price which they seem averse to. I suppose them giving me a goodwill discount would be throwing money away as they feel I’d be unlikely to return to them anyway.

My last email of Friday has not been answered so guessing that they are hoping I go away. I have photo’s of the errors – should I just name & shame?
Can I reverse a debit card payment?

I have filled in an online Honda survey giving brief details but not had a call yet – can I escalate anywhere higher?


Thanks in advance….

[Problem Child]

Advice appreciated…long story, make yourself comfortable.


I recently needed a cambelt service and my LMA’s changed at the same time. Got two quotes from Honda dealerships that professed to have experienced NSX trained mechanics. Both came back with identical prices for the work required so I chose the closest to my home which was around 50 miles away. Car was required for 3 days, courtesy car provided. Dropped car off & showed the service guy a crate full of all the new parts I supplied – water pump, cambelt, air filter, oil filter, plugs, tensioner & spring, gaskets galore, etc.

Middle of second day get a call from the service guy saying he could not stand by the quote as the engine needed to come out to remove the rocker shafts to get to the LMA’s and that the LMA’s I had supplied were the wrong part. I managed to get him the info required to persuade him he could do the job just as he’d priced and that the LMA’s were the correct part with useful photos from this site (thanks to all) – they had never seen the new LMA’s before. Deep breaths, calm down, all sorted…

Picked the car up at the end of the week on my way to work & drove 60 miles to my destination. Lunch time went for a mooch round the engine bay and found a coolant leak, level was still above MIN but coolant splashed around engine bay. Then I noticed an obscene amount of sealant around all of the cam plugs (has to be seen to be believed) – one in particular looked like someone had applied it after assembly very very generously & there were lumps on the surrounding wires and spool valve.
I then opened the boot to have a look to check the old parts and was greeted by the sight of….a load of new parts in my crate! New air filter, plugs but most disappointingly the new cambelt tensioner and spring.
I called the garage to air my concerns. Due to the distance to the garage I agreed with the service guy that I would check out the coolant leak and fix if it was easy to save me driving all the way there again with a leak. Regarding the cam plugs his answer was “I was waiting for a call about that”…great! He said bring it down & we will clean off the residue as it was only what had oozed out on fitting – BS. Regarding the parts not fitted - I only asked for the cambelt & LMA's to be changed apparently....glad they didn't apply the same logic for the water pump!


Went home that night, removed the coolant bottle to get to the hose that had not been seated correctly and re-seated the pipe clamp that was rubbing against the shielded electrical wire harness that goes through the firewall! Leak fixed. Decided to fit the air filter & plugs myself. Then I found that they had fitted the factory rear strut brace upside (it's stamped to shown how it should be fitted!) down & the engine earth strap had twisted when tightened & was now rubbing against the PCV hose…

Anyway, trying to keep this as concisce as possible, I have told them that I don’t feel that paying upwards of £1000 (labour only) for the service I have received is good value for money & after finding so many faults am worried about the parts that I can’t see. All they have offered me is to replace the coolant I used and to bring the car back for the sealant to be cleaned plus give me the petrol for the return visit.

Anyone who has not fallen asleep by now, where would you go from here?

Realistically I don’t see why I should pay a bean for the lousy service but I was suggesting some sort of reduction in price which they seem averse to. I suppose them giving me a goodwill discount would be throwing money away as they feel I’d be unlikely to return to them anyway.

My last email of Friday has not been answered so guessing that they are hoping I go away. I have photo’s of the errors – should I just name & shame?
Can I reverse a debit card payment?

I have filled in an online Honda survey giving brief details but not had a call yet – can I escalate anywhere higher?


Thanks in advance….

Here are the contact details for the MD of Honda UK.....

E-mail
philip.crossman@honda.co.uk


Telephone
01753 590500

[Problem Child]

Another good tactic is to post your complaint on their Facebook page. I recently did this with Renault UK and my complaint was dealt with satisfactorily and virtually immediately

[NSXGB]

Thanks Geoff.

Will give them a chance first before hassling the big fella.

Good call on the social media front too, it has its advantages.

I've just this second had a reply from Honda customer services asking for more info so I'll see what that amounts to....

[Papalazarou]

If you paid by credit card, you could contact the CC company and see what rights you have.
If you don't get the recourse you're after I would post the name of the garage on the forum. Or as Geoff suggested, on Facebook. I still think we need a buyers experience section on the site! But the way the site is run I know that will never happen.

Cheers and good luck Simon.

[NSXGB]

Paid with debit card James, credit card may have had some sort of cover as you say.
Will avoid posting their name and the photo's just yet as it's only right they have the chance to put it right. Thing is though, they are telling people that they have NSX trained Techs and that appears not to be the case.

Replied to the HUK email now....

[gcon45]

That is shocking.

I decided to take my car to a local specialist for my major service and when I read things like this it just vindicates that decision.

I got to stay for the entire process whilst he showed me every exact procedure right down to the torque setting for every nut and bolt on the C32B engine as stipulated in the Autodata system.

[Papalazarou]

Sounds like the HUK route's worth the effort.
My local dealer in Taunton's really good. Like Connor's Indy, they actually let you see your car and talk you through the work done.
Sucks when you get a bad dealer. I've used a couple and it's pretty soul destroying.

Cheers.

[nigel]

There's a reason Kaz is so busy.
It may be an inconvenience for one as an NSX owner but well worth the wait for a truly qualified and caring fellow to do your major NSX maintenance.
He actually cares to see his customers get above and beyone quality for their money and believes in preserving these special cars in the best manner possible.

If there's a next time, KAZ.

Cheers
nigel

[Problem Child]

Thanks Geoff.

Will give them a chance first before hassling the big fella.

Good call on the social media front too, it has its advantages.

I've just this second had a reply from Honda customer services asking for more info so I'll see what that amounts to....

Don't think of it as "hassling the big fella" think of it as huge multinational taking your money under false pretences. He will want to know that his dealership network (which is subject to a huge quality control effort) is failing his customers. Its easier to retain a customer than recruit a new one, so he'll be interested in your experience. I did this recently with Renault UK and the UK MD got back to me personally within 24 hours, the customer services director within the next 24 hours, and the dealership couldn't have been more attentive. I ended up with 3 different repairs refunded and repaired again free of charge, and a free service for my car!

[nobby]

Out of curiosity, who is the 'local specialist' you refer to mate?




That is shocking.

I decided to take my car to a local specialist for my major service and when I read things like this it just vindicates that decision.

I got to stay for the entire process whilst he showed me every exact procedure right down to the torque setting for every nut and bolt on the C32B engine as stipulated in the Autodata system.

[gcon45]

Yhpm!!!!!!!

[PeterW]

Anyone who has not fallen asleep by now, where would you go from here?


Fallen asleep? Hardly. My blood pressure was rising the farther I read. This is the stuff of nightmares.

I agree with the comments about escalation. Perhaps it would also be good to ask them some open questions about their "NSX trained mechanic", e.g. what do they mean by NSX trained mechanic? When was the last time he did this job? How many NSXs does he service a year? If there was some kind of misrepresentation, it could help you get the redress you're looking for. I think I'll ask these questions next time my NSX goes to a dealer for service.

I'm sorry you had this experience, but thanks for sharing it.

Peter

[Trident]

I took my car to Honda Chiswick once for a new clutch and a paint job. The clutch has never been right, the paint job was appalling and they dropped the bonnet to close it while I was watching. Never again!!!

[unclebob]

This is why i never let a 'mechanic' near my motor, the only time anyone ever gets to touch it the annual MOT or for a tyre change and thats with me standing shoulder to shoulder with the tester/fitter.

[markc]

And yet people put great emphasis on FSH and even more in FMDSH or FHUKSH! Almost every NSX buyers guide trots out the same old "must have FSH" or "walk away if the service history is incomplete" nonsense. NSXGB's unfortunate experience demonstrates that this absolutely no guarantee of a properly maintained or healthy car. IMHO, as our cars (actually any car) get older and the specific NSX knowledge and experience is lost at the franchised dealer, "FSH" is increasingly meaningless.

I'd rather do the work myself, and do, than hand my car over to a workshop, official HUK or otherwise, without intimate knowledge of the mechanic/technicians ability and experience. As Jonathan (Britlude) in particular has proved, the NSX is for the most part maintainable by a competent home enthusiast with normal tools and equipment, and more importantly plenty of time and space. The latter is unfortunately the problem for many of us :(

Of course the solution is very simple, clone Kaz several times over :)

[Senninha]

Simon,

Whilst you may not want to trouble the Honda MD just yet, it wont harm to let the dealer know you have his direct line and email address and your finger is poised over the send button if they dont seriously discount the labour charges by the weekend ... always worth putting a time limit on these things as they then know how long to they have to do the right thing by you. If they dont, then press send without hesitation.

Sure you'll get resolution, sorry its happened. Finding out I had old parts still on the car after paying for new and the service is why I dont use main dealers fo rthe NSX anymore.

regards, Paul

[Nick Graves]

I think I'd have probably burned the place to the ground by now!

Basically, if the DP doesn't come back to you BY RETURN, I'd go public.

Exactly at what point does the monkey think that an NSX owner isn't gonna go nuclear if he makes a pig's abortion of the engine bay like that?

[NSXGB]

Just had a call from HUK Customer service. They told me to go back to the dealer who will put right the sealant and talk me through the stuff that they have done that I can't see to give me peace of mind.

Not sure that is good enough!

Pictures to follow over the weekend...

[NSXGB]

Looks like Honda vet Facebook posts before letting them appear on their site, I dont think they will let mine through...will have to find another way...

[havoc]

Following with interest - my cambelt service is due this year (plus water pump, valve clearances, some oil seals*), have a quote from local dealer (who've provided very good service, to be fair, but don't tout themselves as NSX specialists...maybe that's better, I get the impression Trevor takes his time because he's not an expert...), but I am wondering whether to take a trek further away to an independent for this big job...

* how many to do, and do I ask them to do engine-out to make it easier?


Simon - how much were the LMAs, out of interest? Hadn't even thought of them, but at 100k, while the rocker covers are off...

[NSXGB]

Following with interest - my cambelt service is due this year (plus water pump, valve clearances, some oil seals*), have a quote from local dealer (who've provided very good service, to be fair, but don't tout themselves as NSX specialists...maybe that's better, I get the impression Trevor takes his time because he's not an expert...), but I am wondering whether to take a trek further away to an independent for this big job...

* how many to do, and do I ask them to do engine-out to make it easier?


Simon - how much were the LMAs, out of interest? Hadn't even thought of them, but at 100k, while the rocker covers are off...

Martin, I paid about £140 for the LMA set, non discounted price (unusual for me!) from my local dealer. Mine is approaching 100k & has quietened it down a bit. The removed LMA's were a little sticky.

I would get them to price the job both ways and get a quote from a couple of dealers to compare. Definitely easier to do with the engine out so swings & roundabouts.

[NSXGB]

So, I've tried to post on the FB page, probably will be vetted & never see the light of day.

I've tweeted on Honda's Twitter page with a very concise 120 character tweet #ifeelmugged :)

Finally I've emailed the big fella.

[NSXGB]

https://rnpi2w.bay.livefilestore.com/y2pVvbp6CZFVuqM9inrbConwVX608l606MOvMoYsQV18_aqSg6 DeVVP8HbCRHjzkTQoO-ybbmpRdz15Amnu7oTcl-hAveUg6oGuLQ-kV2QOheQ/Picture%20001.jpg?psid=1

[Senninha]

Mmmm, not one of the mods you had in mind ... definately not pretty ... it never ceases to amaze me how low some peoples level of pride and satisfaction are, I mean who would honestly be happy that they had done a good job with this. I'd argue anyone of us would have made abetter job of this as an emergy roadside repair to get ourselves home!

[NSXGB]

This is what it should look like (picture courtesy of Kaz's blog).
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-4zpsS94JCVo/UcOSpUIXGjI/AAAAAAAAKSo/DAcJkFPq8cc/s640/IMG_0064.JPG

[Rdevelopments]

I have a couple of cam plugs lying aroung (brand new). After seeing this i feel so sorry for you i'll sent the to you for free. Just pm me your adress!
This is a disgrace!

[Senninha]

I have a couple of cam plugs lying aroung (brand new). After seeing this i feel so sorry for you i'll sent the to you for free. Just pm me your adress!
This is a disgrace!

Another great example of why I love the NSX community ... and they're not even for me! Top Man!!

[NSXGB]

I have a couple of cam plugs lying aroung (brand new). After seeing this i feel so sorry for you i'll sent the to you for free. Just pm me your adress!
This is a disgrace!

LOL thanks.
The joke is though that the ones covered in gunk in my photo are the original Science of Speed billet ones that were fitted at the last CB change. I supplied new OEM cam plugs for them to use that are still in the packets...

[mjames75]

Not looking good at all....Last year I took mine to Honda Chiswick, another member from here kindly got me the cambelt, water pump, Crank pulley and all seals and gaskets from the US, I asked to see the Engineer who would be doing the work, talked to him and found he had done quite a few NSX's, told him how fussy i was, they did a full service, cambelt change, waterpump, crank pulley and all gaskets and seals on engine head for £1100!, I asked them to keep the old parts and inspected it before I left.

[gumball]

Of the three places I have used, I have had faults with all three.
Too many short cuts in the garage trade, I used to work in the trade, but got disillusioned and moved up to the building trade instead.

[NSXGB]

So...after a few emails to Honda UK Customer Service vial Philip Crossman....

In a nutshell. Although Honda customer services (reading between the lines) seem to admit the service I received was not up to scratch, because Geo Collins Honda (Herstmonceaux) offered to put right the sealant issue (I'd done the rest) & pay my petrol expenses, that's as far as they have to go and have washed their hands of me. I do not want them to touch the car again because they have proved to me they are not capable and it means a 100 mile round trip plus the best part of a day waiting around the garage.

I have raised a case now with the Motor Industry Code of Practice, they are very helpful and felt I had a strong case. If anyone ever needs their number - 0800 6920825 - Hope you never do though!

Bad service Geo collins Herstmonceaux.​Bad service Geo collins Herstmonceaux.​Bad service Geo collins Herstmonceaux.​Bad service Geo collins Herstmonceaux.​Bad service Geo collins Herstmonceaux.​Bad service Geo collins Herstmonceaux.​Bad service Geo collins Herstmonceaux.​Bad service Geo collins Herstmonceaux.​Bad service Geo collins Herstmonceaux.​Bad service Geo collins Herstmonceaux.​Bad service Geo collins Herstmonceaux.​Bad service Geo collins Herstmonceaux.​Bad service Geo collins Herstmonceaux.​Bad service Geo collins Herstmonceaux.​Bad service Geo collins Herstmonceaux.​Bad service Geo collins Herstmonceaux.​Bad service Geo collins Herstmonceaux.​Bad service Geo collins Herstmonceaux.​Bad service Geo collins Herstmonceaux.​Bad service Geo collins Herstmonceaux.​Bad service Geo collins Herstmonceaux.​Bad service Geo collins Herstmonceaux.​Bad service Geo collins Herstmonceaux.​Bad service Geo collins Herstmonceaux.​Bad service Geo collins Herstmonceaux.​Bad service Geo collins Herstmonceaux.​Bad service Geo collins Herstmonceaux.​Bad service Geo collins Herstmonceaux.

[Rdevelopments]

Simply unbelievable that they just leave it at that. Shows that it's all about the benjamins these days. The time where service seemed to be important seems to be a long time ago. I'm lucky one of my best mates worked at Honda. And has their original diagnose computer for issues. Thats why i always go there.

I've found in the past that sometimes your better off leaving it a smaller "passionate" garage, That handle the care with great care and take their time to sort out issues on hand. A great Example of that is www.R-motion.co.uk in the UK. In my opinion at least. He sourced my NSX, inspected it and even delivered it. Very dedicated passionate mechanic and maintains his own and a few customer NA1 / NA2 NSX cars.

[kingsley]

Looks like a totally different experience with BMW..... I have a BMW Z4 Sport 2007 with only 6,500 miles on the other day the ABS and TCS lights came on ...Thought wheel speed sensor problem. No it was the ABS Hdro Pump ...cost of the part alone was £1,800 plus fitting ...then the dreadful VAT £2,230.00 . . BMW at Shrewsbury .....Fantastic I explained that if the car had done 50,000 miles we would not be having this conversation ...the car is like new hardly been used etc. Service department agreed and said they would send an e-mail to BMW warranty and see what they could do. Within 2 hours BMW agreed to foot most of the cost leaving me to pay £600.00 The work was done with free MOT. Happy customer. Just wish they were Honda Dealership.

Kingsley

Kingsley

[havoc]

Thanks for the info on the previous page Simon, and sorry to hear HUK have dropped the ball on this one...but not entirely surprised...have heard a fair few stories like this over the last few years about them.

If it wasn't for having a good local dealership I'd probably not have bothered with the FD2, to be honest - there aren't any Honda specialists in the Midlands worth talking to.

Hope the MICP can do something...photos make for great evidence...

[WhyOne?]

Very disappointed and sorry to hear that Honda UK have not supported you on this Simon....especially as I endorsed Geo Collins so strongly.

[NZNick]

So they charged you for fitting parts, but didn't fit them, leaving them in the packets? That is plain fraud - not doing a job that you paid for.
Did they give you an itemised bill, saying what amount of labour relates to each activity / part fitting?
Did they actually fit the water pump & cambelt? or just keep the parts that you supplied?
I would be pursuing this with some higher up the food chain, writing a very strong letter to MCIP, and booking Kaz ASAP!!

[goldtop]

Reliable NSX, unreliable Honda*


Much as I hate social media, I'd be exploiting Honda's Facebook presence - http://www.facebook.com/hondauk?fref=ts - with details on this. The one-to-many approach will get their attention more than one-to-one calls and emails.

In the next two years Honda has to build positivity for the new NSX and stories like this on Honda's wall will undermine the NSX brand.


* (So far, my only beef with Honda is that the Spares dept is closed on a Saturday - grrrr.)

[NSXGB]

Tried the Facebook route & they vet any posts on their page. I think I will repeat this thread on as many Honda related forums & maybe Pisonheads etc. I'll just post the facts and photos and the masses can decide whether to use this or any other Honda dealership to service their car in the future.


Reliable NSX, unreliable Honda*


Much as I hate social media, I'd be exploiting Honda's Facebook presence - http://www.facebook.com/hondauk?fref=ts - with details on this. The one-to-many approach will get their attention more than one-to-one calls and emails.

In the next two years Honda has to build positivity for the new NSX and stories like this on Honda's wall will undermine the NSX brand.


* (So far, my only beef with Honda is that the Spares dept is closed on a Saturday - grrrr.)

[sorepaws]

I'm not sure I totally understand the business agreements that Honda have with its dealerships and servicing organisations but one of the challenges for all motor manufacturers is that for the most part all dealerships are private businesses not owned by Honda UK Ltd. There is of course influence that Honda can place on their dealers but at the end of the day it will be up to the car owner to decide who best should service their car. In this case the issue has to be between the Customer and the Honda dealership as covered by various legal requirements terms and conditions.

I am sure that Honda will look carefully at those dealers that provide a quality service and only allow those dealers to sell the "new" NSX.

The best course of action would be to get an independent Automotive Engineer to provide a report and then approach the dealership, if they saw no need for further action then take it through the courts (small claims etc ).

I would not consider posting possibly defamatory or unsubstantiated comments on the internet, this may prejudice any case you have.

With respect to the BMW case mentioned above if this vehicle was less than 6 years old then it will be covered by the Sale Of Good act amended by European law which in effect states that any part not deemed to be a serviceable part that fails within a period of 6 years due to manufacturing defect is still covered by manufacturers warrantee (even if the manufacture only claims to provide a 2/3 year warrantee period).

[NSXGB]

Thanks for the advice Mike.
I'll be careful to keep it factual, the photographs never lie...

On a side note, I have also noticed that the accessory belts are in my opinion way too tight - it takes a lot of force to flex the belt even 5mm... Getting even more worried about the things I can't see that they have messed with!

[Nick Graves]

Well, another vote for Norton Way for fixing the Leg End's interior door handle cable FOC when I brought it in for what I thought was a warranty claim but wasn't.

They're not all bad.

[Senninha]

I was using Norton Way as they had completed all bar one of the services to my NSX since new, so seemed like a good idea. All was going well right upto the point where they lost my OEM rear anti roll bar, didnt install the Type S bar correctly, and had clearly NOT changed the oil filter at a previous service (or two) because the one I took off had been out of production for two years! A real shame as the team always appeared helpful upto these issues .... the clear message is from all of this thread is to allow yourself time to check what has been completed, where are the old parts and in your own mind to feel you have received value for money.

[NSXGB]

Finally resolved with a partial refund from the dealership. Shame it took the intervention of the MICP to get them to see sense but glad to draw a line under it.

[WhyOne?]

Pleased to hear that you have some sort of resolution to this sorry mess Simon.

[TheSebringOne]

Glad you got some redemption in the end & so can move on.

[havoc]

Agreed - some sort of result at least (was worth pursuing), and you can now move on...