Like an NSX, but different ... very different.

[goldtop]

Have just bought a car for classic days out and track days (having decided that the risk of bending an NSX is just too high).

Things that are the same as the NSX:
* mid-engined
* revvy 3.0 litre V6
* pop-ups (naturally)
* lightweight body
* rare (actually more rare)

Things that are different to the NSX:
* almost everything else

Obscure clues: it shares an unusual characteristic with the Kia Cee'd; Top Gear scandal!

[AR]

Fiero? Alpine ( rear engine ) Clio v6?

[NSXGB]

Fiero? Alpine ( rear engine ) Clio v6?

Clio V6 with pop ups?

I thought Renault Alpine too...

[goldtop]

Alpine - to be honest, I've never seen one in the flesh and it wasn't even on my radar...

Fiero - was it ever rated dynamically? I think the American reviews always had it coming second to the MR2 Mk1.

Clio V6 - capable, but not (yet!) classic.

This one turns more heads than an NSX (one driver gave way on a roundabout just to let it go in front of him). It feels at least five times as raw (no TCS/ABS/EPS/AC/FM/heater). Has less power, but a slightly better power-to-weight ratio than an NSX Type R.

Clue #2: SWB. Very SWB.

[andystevo]

Lancia Stratos? Can't be - the engine's the wrong size. AC 3000ME? Ticks most of the boxes, except that the Essex V6 isn't exactly high-revving (to say the least...)

[NSX 2000]

Lotus? Which one not sure?

Or a TVR as some people argue that as the engine sits behind the front wheels it is mid-engine

[goldtop]

Lancia Stratos? Can't be - the engine's the wrong size.

We have a winner! :) Although - as I've failed to make the necessary squillions for the genuine article - this one is a Hawk replica, with the Alfa 3.0 24V engine. Pick it up next week.

http://www.firstmail.com/misc/elevy08.jpg

http://www.firstmail.com/misc/elevy32.jpg

http://www.firstmail.com/misc/elevy29.jpg

It needs some fettling over the winter, but the Alfa specialist in London who's been looking after it for years, knows all of its foibles, so we're putting together a programme of improvements.

[andystevo]

Brilliant! I presume that the link with Kia and Top Gear was their reasonably priced Cee'd & the feature on a Stratos replica a few years ago?

[goldtop]

Oh, I forgot - the obscure connection with the Kia is that they both have an apostrophe in their model names: Strato's. (I know, it's daft and makes no sense!)

And yes, the TG feature wound pretty much everybody up, and is viewed as a 'hatchet job'. Here's another Clarkson-Stratos clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_id0MME4kUA

[Senninha]

Bonkers and I'd love one!

Have to say the 'new' one ain't half bad either ....

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQRcZiKswCHsAQwCh8-bEVHIZFfBzsrC0FWDK3FWhxqKPBMoIws4uduL_A:www.autotr ibute.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/New-Old-Lancia-Stratos.jpg (http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.autotribute.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/New-Old-Lancia-Stratos.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.autotribute.com/7027/new-lancia-stratos-photos/&usg=__po0jnvoN6_ciUUTHI7wGqPeaMfg=&h=1067&w=1600&sz=279&hl=en&start=1&zoom=1&tbnid=ECBXCcMBTw_KJM:&tbnh=100&tbnw=150&ei=HRkqUpGzHKqN7QbXnoHwCg&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dnew%2Bstratos%26um%3D1%26sa%3DN%26hl% 3Den-GB%26gbv%3D2%26tbm%3Disch&um=1&itbs=1&sa=X&ved=0CCwQrQMwAA)

[havoc]

Cool, you've bought Elliott's old car! Wondered who'd got it...

He did love that TR7... ;)

[goldtop]

Yes, Elliott's let it go after 7 years. Tail end of Summer though, so I won't get to drive it much till next year. :( Quite a few jobs to do in the meantime.



Bonkers and I'd love one!

Have to say the 'new' one ain't half bad either ....

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQRcZiKswCHsAQwCh8-bEVHIZFfBzsrC0FWDK3FWhxqKPBMoIws4uduL_A:www.autotr ibute.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/New-Old-Lancia-Stratos.jpg (http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.autotribute.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/New-Old-Lancia-Stratos.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.autotribute.com/7027/new-lancia-stratos-photos/&usg=__po0jnvoN6_ciUUTHI7wGqPeaMfg=&h=1067&w=1600&sz=279&hl=en&start=1&zoom=1&tbnid=ECBXCcMBTw_KJM:&tbnh=100&tbnw=150&ei=HRkqUpGzHKqN7QbXnoHwCg&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dnew%2Bstratos%26um%3D1%26sa%3DN%26hl% 3Den-GB%26gbv%3D2%26tbm%3Disch&um=1&itbs=1&sa=X&ved=0CCwQrQMwAA)

Agreed. Now that Mr F has killed off the new-Stratos, perhaps one of the kit makers will create a new-Stratos body to pop on to the old chassis.

[TheSebringOne]

Nice purchase! I have thought about getting one of these in the past! The TG piece didn't do the car any justice!

I love the idea it shares a lot of parts with my old X1/9, which include the pop up lights, door handles &
other bits!

[goldtop]

Yes, there are lots of X1/9 bits - including those pesky $#*! festoon-ish fuses, and all manner of other Italianesque electronic ideas, plus the earthing issues. On this one the headlamp motors are from an MX5, so that's one less worry. I've got a brave idea of completely redoing the loom with modern standards and practices, and using proper connectors and PTFE wire to get save weight and gain reliability.

It's also a bit er... 'basic' inside. It's a Stradale style but has been fitted out for racing and needs some improvements.

[Senninha]

There's a set of leather pole positions on fleabay could start the interior upgrade ... £800 the pair.

the re-wire sounds like a big job but sound investment x

[britlude]

plenty of universal wiring loom kits out there... .

[TheSebringOne]

Good luck with the rewire! My old X1/9 was pretty reliable, it was helped by upgrading to an electronic ignition in the dizzy!
Plus I had to upgrade the main earth connector in the fuse box above the passenger footwell after it burnt out!

[goldtop]

Yes, this car's Alfa V6 has some necessarily altered electrics which I don't really understand (at the moment), but I think the ignition/control bits are all sorted. But I know the X1/9 had some stupid ideas such as running the headlight current through the ignition switch, and I don't know if Transformer/Hawk's designers followed those Italian ideas? It's exactly that sort of nightmare I'd like to properly do from modern principles. The other challenge is to save some weight (not much but PTFE is so much lighter, so there should be some saving).

My day job is electronics (albeit high voltage audio), so I'm not too intimidated by the work. Although very high current will be a new area, and I need to research that. Universal looms is an interesting idea...

Should be collecting the car this week.

[Nick Graves]

Good luck with the rewire! My old X1/9 was pretty reliable, it was helped by upgrading to an electronic ignition in the dizzy!
Plus I had to upgrade the main earth connector in the fuse box above the passenger footwell after it burnt out!

I did that. Then the Lumenition module failed!

[TheSebringOne]

The Lumenition that was fitted was reliable during my ownership!

[paulc]

It amazes me how many of us that now have the NSX used to have an X19. In my case a 1979 1.3 in a very nice shade of bronze

[andystevo]

Mine was a 1985 C reg. VS, two-tone blue with tan leather seats & brown interior. Owned from 1989 until 1992, sold to help finance a house move. I've still got a notion for owning another and have come close on a couple of occasions in recent times.

[goldtop]

I did the nostalgia thing with the X1/9 (had one in '87 and then another in 2010). I didn't choose a good one, which I think is now very important.

Anyhoo, I picked up the Stratos today, and drove it back from North London to Cambridge. I drove about 300 miles in the NSX at the weekend, so that's still fresh in my mind. Some initial thoughts:

Steering: first thing I noticed - it's much faster in the Stratos, and I had to untrain myself from the amount of steering input needed for the NSX (EPS model). In the Stratos, a little goes a long way. I will need to get the Stratos checked out, because there's a little (of what I think is) bump steer. I can imagine that on a wet bumpy B-road it would be as easy as wrangling a slippery eel.

Acceleration: don't properly know, I didn't boot it at all. Engine seems very willing - it's dynoed at 240bhp - and there's a very obvious lack of weight (about 950kg, I think). So it feels subjectively quick for moderate throttle input.

Ride: far less composed than the NSX. And at low speed on potholed roads it's the exact opposite of the NSX.

Comfort: !!!!! there is none. Seats are thin racing types, and there's a 5-point harness which has a strap so wide that the one that runs between your legs is constantly annoying. Offset and quite narrowly spaced pedals mean a bit of precision footwork is needed. Plus on this car there's a jerry-rigged accelerator connection that adds a lever very close to the clutch, which without a good aim gives you gas with each clutch press.

The windows are unique in that when lowered there's some weird aerodynamic effect where you just get increased wind noise without any actual air entering the cabin. The coolant pipes run through the middle spine of the car and even in today's moderate heat, the in-cabin temp increased and got warm. Not unpleasantly hot, but on a really hot Summer's day...

Rear visibility is an issue. The louvres for the rear window are quite thick, and it's easy to lose sight of a distant-but-closing car completely. Need to add better door mirrors, too. It's a world apart from the NSX.

It's a total cacophony inside. The combination of kit construction, complete lack of sound deadening and driver's proximity to the engine and rear tyres creates a non-stop racket. Add the noise of a slightly warped brake disk, and noise egress from the open windows and when I eventually stopped at the car storage space and switched off, I thought I'd gone deaf. The chances of my OH wanting a trip in this car really are zilch (she tolerates the NSX).

Driving: it definitely felt like an event to drive the Stratos. At no point did I feel relaxed - although it is still very new to me. I suppose it is the opposite of the NSX where the reviews all said that this was a car your Mum get in and drive.

I will be doing a driver instruction day in the Stratos. ASAP! :)

[TheSebringOne]

Congrats Goldtop! There is certainly no chance of falling asleep in the Stratos! :D

My X (Fiat) was a late 1988, but not a Grand Finale. Spent a fortune restoring her with a bloke
over 6 months as she eaten away by oxidation! Think she needed about 6 small plates & brazing!
I had her from 1992 until 2010. My MOT guy brought her! I check to see if I have any pics of the
two Xs together!?

[Nick Graves]

You mean one of these:

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u286/BlackS2K/Scan10003.jpg

My first one was the gold one below:

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u286/BlackS2K/Scan10004.jpg

[flyingsniffer]

I had an early 4 speed one, in fact it was the one that was taken apart for the Haynes Manual.

[TheSebringOne]

Nick, thats a nice Grand Finale in Mica Blue?
I didn't know Land Rover used to sell X1/9s!
I assume the gold one is an early 5 speeder?

Flyingsniffer, I still got the same Haynes manual!

[goldtop]

The 4-speed 1300 (my first) was the prettiest (despite a repaint in bright BL green!), but my later 1500 was marginally better to drive.

There are some very interesting engine conversions out there, including some with the Honda K24. That would be fun. There are stories that the X1/9 was deliberately given a low-power engine because a test mule with the Fiat TC 2000 had proven to be too close to the Stratos' performance with the Dino engine.

The ultimate in gorgeousness was the Lido edition: http://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelwardphotos/3318806367/in/photostream/ (lovely photo set for a feature in Auto Italia).

One day, when I luck into a HUGE storage barn...

[TheSebringOne]

That Lido is gorgeous & I always prefer the chrome bumpers before the later horrible
bumpers to keep the US regulators happy!

A friend of my had a Uno turbo in his Grand Finale, chipped to 150-160 bhp! Another popular
conversion is the Lancia twin cam 2.0 litre.

[Nick Graves]

Nick, thats a nice Grand Finale in Mica Blue?
I didn't know Land Rover used to sell X1/9s!
I assume the gold one is an early 5 speeder?

Flyingsniffer, I still got the same Haynes manual!

Me three!

It's not a Gran Finale - they were completely different. In that they had a rear spoiler and Gran Finale badges...

Give it time; Jagwah is looking at a CUV so the Land Rover sports car cannot be far away. All this 'me-tooing' and brand dilution is getting stupid.

The '81 car was indeed an early 1500.

I know a few people did Lancia or Turbo engine conversions.

But really, the FIAT X-1/20 (Tipo 137) was supposed to be the 2.0 class car. It was sold as the Lancia Montecarlo. Or Scorpion in US.