2002+ Front brake calipers - just checking

[nobby]

folks

just to clarify will these brake calipers be OK fit wise using the 16" front OEM 7 spoke alloy wheel?

even the calipers painted gold 04 onwards etc?

No spacers or anything required?

only downside is that my original spare wheel (94 car) will no longer fit and i need the bigger diameter one?

BTW anyone have a set they want to sell (as a complete kit minus discs and pads)?! :)

[duncan]

The later cars run larger discs, this was achieved by the use of deeper mounting brackets at both the front and back. The piston sizes within the front calipers vary between the early and later cars. With the later front calipers putting less load into the front axle, i.e more rear biased.
The calipers and the mounting brackets are interchangeable.
If you use the early calipers with the later brackets the combination is the same the later type Rs.
The early spare wheel will not fit over the deeper mounting brackets, irrespective of whichever caliper is used.
If you are going for the later deeper brackets you will need longer brake hoses.

[nobby]

Thanks Duncan

so I would need to factor in new braided hoses for both front and rear?

i would be keen to just opt for the complete caliper set and opt for the latter mounting brackets etc too excluding the discs and pads as I will look at alternatives on these bits.

[duncan]

Longer/new hoses - yes.
A. S. Motorsport list out just the front caliper brackets, should you wish to re-use your existing front caliper.
It may be worth a try to see whether they can get the rears as well. For the UK, Lings [HUK] only show the caliper and bracket as a complete assembly.

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Hi, nobby.
For your reference.....

The larger caliper/disc design was introduced from 1997+.
Because it was at the same time as the introduction of 3.2L model, some people or even the aftermarket parts manufactures called it as ‘NA2 caliper’ but all of the 97+ AT models was also equipped with this larger design and as you know, all AT models stayed with the 3.0L NA1 engine.
Probably it was easier to use the wording ‘NA2’ than the ‘larger’ or ‘later’ spec caliper.
People with some NSX knowledge will understand what they were trying to say.

From 02+ models, the caliper was plated in gold colour on all models except for the 02+ NSX-R that stayed with the black colour.
It’s just the colour difference and I use this 02+ NSX-R caliper on my NSX with 16/17 OEM wheel without any spacers or modifications so no problem in fitting it.
In fact, 97 – 01 models were using the 16/17 OEM wheel with the larger caliper from the factory any way.


As duncan mentioned, you will need longer brake line depending on the chassis setup especially at the rear.
As you have UK address, you can order the custom made one from Goodridge that will have two line holder/locator at the front.
It is designed so that it can be used on both the original and larger caliper/disc spec unless you have significantly changed the chassis setup from OEM such as the rideheight, etc.
http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/entry.php?340-Goodridge-Custom-Made-Brake-Line


The larger disc size increased the capacity at both the front and rear brakes but the biggest change was the massive increase (about 40%) in the rear caliper piston diameter.
This was to shift the brake balance more towards the rear as it was so easy to lock up the front under heavy braking with the original brake setup.
OEM front pad material was tuned to reduce this situation compared to the rear one but still, it was easy to lock up the front.

This was more distinctive if aftermarket brake pads were used on the original caliper design because it tends to use similar pad characteristic between the front and the rear ones.

There are two pistons with different diameter (40+36mm or 40+34mm) inside each front caliper.
Just one big piston inside the rear caliper.
The master cyl diameter and the brake booster spec stayed the same (except for 02+ NSX-R) so one will need to compensate for the brake pedal feeling and other factors when making such huge increase on the rear caliper piston diameter.
Hence, the diameter of one of the two pistons at each front caliper was reduced from 36 to 34mm when larger caliper was introduced.
The other piston at the front caliper stayed the same at 40mm for both the original and larger caliper spec.

The ABS setup was also changed at the same time when the larger caliper was introduced followed by the complete design change in 1999 when the one body new ABS was introduced.

There are other things to be considered especially the tyre, chassis setup, etc but based on the above points, if you use ABS on purposely on many occasions, ideally you want to consider the ABS upgrade at the same time or in the near future when changing to the larger caliper. Probably you have already upgraded to the latest ABS???


If you use ABS mainly for the panic braking situation, then it’s a different story.


Strictly speaking, there is a few mm difference in the pad dimension between the original and larger caliper design but almost all of the aftermarket pads are sold as one parts no. to cover both type.
So, you could re-use your existing pads when installing the new caliper/disc but whenever replacing the disc/pad, ideally you should replace them as a set especially when replacing the disc.

NSXGB posted useful info for your post in the ‘Want’ section so you may want to consider it.

Although your post title was asking just for the front caliper, I didn’t see the point especially when the brake balance was already too much towards the front and also wanted to look at the car as a package and hence, my notes on other areas as above.

For the same reason, personally, I don’t recommend just using the later spec bracket/carrier with your original smaller caliper.


Kaz

[ozon02]

Hi,
Kaz wrote
"The larger disc size increased the capacity at both the front and rear brakes but the biggest change was the massive increase (about 40%) in the rear caliper piston diameter."
I ask:
What ist the diameter rear piston last spec (if NA1 -42mm)?

[bbvnsx]

Last spec rear piston is 48 mm

[ozon02]

Hi,
after reading Prime WIKI
"
Do I Need Bigger Brakes? Many NSX owners ask if they need to upgrade their tiny factory brakes to a "Big Brake Kit" or "BBK" for short. Performance wise, the stock rotors and calipers are adequate for 99.9% of NSX owners, even those who track their cars often. This is possible when using a proper pad, stainless steel brake lines (optional), and a quality performance brake fluid. The OEM Honda pad and fluid are designed to operate at much lower temperatures and do not have the "Mu" (Coefficient of friction) at higher temps like a more aggressive pad designed to work at higher temps.


There are many pad and fluid options out there and details below but for example: Carbotech XP8, XP10, Panther Plus are good options that are up to the task and ATE SuperBlue or Castrol SRF are good fluid options.


For naturally aspirated cars on street tires, the stock brakes with proper pads and fluid are adequate for even the most advanced drivers. For R-compound equipped NA cars and even most Forced-Induction cars, the stock brakes are still adequate for 99% of drivers.

For that last 1% who are veteran track day drivers who use R-compound tires as well as those handful with FI, a larger rotor wouldn't be a bad idea to dissipate heat better and to have more clamping force. There are a few tracked NSXs out there with a front-only brake upgrade (Brembo "Lotus" or StopTech) that when combined with an aggressive rear pad on the stock rear caliper, have a fade-free and consistent brake performance despite losing a slight bit of peak performance due to the slight imbalance.




Only the Performance Friction and StopTech brake systems are designed with the stock NSX brake bias in mind. For those with Brembo Front and Rear kits or a BBK from another manufacturer, the brake bias will need to be adjusted because most manufacturers use the same piston sizes for both front and rear which results in a far WORSE brake bias than upgrading the front alone.


Try not to be a track day hero. Assess your car's modifications, and try to objectively assess your experience and talent level. For most people, upgrading the pads and fluid is the least expensive option and will often be more than adequate. If you want to improve the looks if your car to fill out the wheel well, that is a different story. "

I will not change my factory NA1 Brake Set (96')
but i have questions:
as after 96' changed Brakes (for me Brakes= rotor,caliper,bracket,ABS,brakes line,valve,electronic etc.) to eliminate understeer.
I know change 97':Rotor ,Pistons diameter.Change ABS Software -as Kaz mentioned

especially I'm interested in the application Proportional Valve with later spec ABS Modulator (his appearance is related to the new ABSmodulator or eliminate understeer)