Clutch replacement

[Mark N]

Just when I thought it was good to come out and play more often another problem arises.:(

Has anyone replaced their clutch recently ? I am looking for any advice on the best place to purchase a new clutch complete with bearing etc and any recommendations to find someone to carry out the work . I am looking to get the best VFM (Value for Money) another acronym.;)

I have already contacted Kaz who has given me some good advice , thank you again Kaz, but he is unable to carry out the work due to current commitments.

Many thanks
Mark

[goldtop]

Haven't got any concrete advice, except to say that even well-known companies with a record of servicing many NSXs don't always get the clutch right. (I only know this from the records kept by the previous owner of K2NSX.)


VFM (Value for Money) another acronym.;)



(whispers) It's not an acronym.

[NSXGB]

Guessing you have the dual plate clutch at the moment?

NW ( Norton Way :) ) charge about £400 labour inc VAT to change the clutch.

You will need the pilot bearing as well as the release bearing.

Some members have installed the SOS (Science of Speed) sport clutch which is a little kinder to the pocket, maybe they could chime in with their experiences. A search on Prime would give some more feedback on the different clutches available.

[NSXGB]

.....or have a look in the For Sale section here...you never know what might pop up!

[Mark N]

Guessing you have the dual plate clutch at the moment?

NW ( Norton Way :) ) charge about £400 labour inc VAT to change the clutch.

You will need the pilot bearing as well as the release bearing.

Some members have installed the SOS (Science of Speed) sport clutch which is a little kinder to the pocket, maybe they could chime in with their experiences. A search on Prime would give some more feedback on the different clutches available.

Just spoke to a nice gut at Honda Norton way they are quoting just over £600 for installation £2100 supply and fit all in.

[NSXGB]

Just spoke to a nice gut at Honda Norton way they are quoting just over £600 for installation £2100 supply and fit all in.

Crikey, might be worth haggling, like I say I paid £400 labour for mine only two years ago (that's some price jump in two years).

[Hagasan]

Crikey, might be worth haggling, like I say I paid £400 labour for mine only two years ago (that's some price jump in two years).

That ^ plus buying the one for sale on the forum would save you about £500 straight away....

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Hi, Mark.
As some of the info may be useful for other owners, I'll be sharing part of my email below.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
With OEM CL, while the CL bite point won't change, the pedal effort gets much heavier on the worn out friction disc than the fresh new one.

Because it's a gradual change, lots of owners won't be able to tell this but when you have fresh CL and old used one like over 100K miles on two NSX side by side, you will feel the night and day difference on the CL pedal weight.
The heavier the CL pedal, the more the disc worn out.

I think you already carried out the test by yourself.
I normally put the car in 3rd or 4th gear on a gentle long up slope at low speed like you have on the motorway junction and then just apply moderate - hard acceleration.
You will notice the slip if the CL is on the go.
You will also notice some minor slip when you do high rpm upshift while driving aggressively.

You can't judge the condition of your CL by the mileage because it depends on all sorts of driving conditions.
For example, in Japan, we have to use parking brake and let the CL to slip gently on launch as we have so many steep up slope everywhere. Also, lots of traffic jam so stop and go traffic is normal.
While I was in Japan, I used to replace the CL every 30K- 40K miles. After I moved to UK, I'm still using the same driving style but I already covered more than 100K miles on the CL and just about feeling the slip so it's at the end of it's life.
If you covered **K miles and started to feel the slip, then probably it's best to start looking for the new CL.


The best all-rounder is the OEM one. No doubt about this because it is targeted for all sorts of driving conditions and for all drivers. It is probably the most durable one as well.
Being as all-rounder, there are several compromise. In order to make the CL engage easier for any drivers, the flywheel and rotational mass of entire CL unit is heavy to keep high inertia.
This will slow down the engine response but the driver doesn't need to worry about the sharp rpm drop on gear shifting resulting in quick reaction required for finding the bite point.

Lots of owners replaced their CL with OEM one but purchased aftermarket lightweight flywheel to install it at the same time. Unfortunately, for OEM twin disc CL, you can't buy the CL assy without the flywheel unless you are replacing just the two friction discs so you must buy the complete set which means you will have brand new OEM flywheel that won't be used when installing the aftermarket one.

I have never driven or installed the SoS one.
There are lots of good feedback but also some negative comments as well.
Not sure about the durability as I don't think enough mileage was covered by many owners yet.

I'm already fully booked until next February so not good idea to wait for me.

I think several owners already had their CL replaced at Norton Way Honda so if you ask on the NSXCB site, you may get the idea on the labour charge.
I would assume they will charge you around 6 - 10Hrs.


Please make sure to replace the release bearing, bearing guide (if rusty) and release fork.


Regards,
Kaz
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

If going for the aftermarket flywheel, plesae pay attention not just to the weight but also the design especially the inertia.
Lots of people tends to discuss about the weight of the flywheel but it's actually the rotational inertia that makes the difference.
For the same reason, if you are doing mainly street driving, you want to avoid too light, too small inertia flywheel.
You may get used to it but for quite a while, you will be forced to pay extra attention trying to 'catch' the bite point before the rpm drops too far resulting in jerky driving style.

If it has just started slipping, you should have some time before it really slips unless you broke the torsion spring. In this case, you won't be able to disengage the CL.

Hope you can find good replacement.

Kaz

[manisandher]

Hi Mark, NW recently replaced my CL disc, release bearing, bearing guide, release fork (plus a few other bits) for around £1,600 all in. Although I was majorly annoyed with them, this had nothing to do with the work itself, rather just bad communication on their part. The work itself seems to have been carried out well. Certainly, the clutch now feels amazing (Kaz has driven my car since and can confirm this).

HTH.

Mani.

[Mark N]

Hi Mani
Thanks for the information .That is a big difference because they quoted me £2100 all in. Did you have to haggle to get that price ? Did you supply any of the parts ? .

Mani.[/QUOTE]

[NSXGB]

Hi Mani
Thanks for the information .That is a big difference because they quoted me £2100 all in. Did you have to haggle to get that price ? Did you supply any of the parts ? .

Mani.

Mani has a different clutch to yours Mark....unless he has upgraded his gearbox to accept the dual plate clutch...

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

[Edit: NSXGB was faster than me in replying so some duplicated info below.....]


Please note that there is significant parts price difference between OEM single and twin disc CL assy.

For OEM twin disc type, there is no option but to buy everything as a set if you need to replace any of the flywheel, mid plate or the CL cover/basket/pressure plate. This is because you are meant to be replacing these as a set unless you acted early enough and able to just replace the two friction discs and re-use the rest.

For the OEM single disc type, you can buy individual parts separately but you don't want to know the price of the OEM flywheel..... For the same price, you can buy not only the complete twin disc CL set but also even pay for the majority of the labour charge....
It's that expensive so you really don't want to cause uneven wear on the single disc type flywheel.

However, if you didn't act early enough but still decided to re-use the flywheel, you will never get the straight out of the factory fresh feel on the CL.

So, when comparing the price, please keep above points in mind and also the type of CL that the owners are referring to.


By the way, release bearing price is much cheaper from Honda UK than from Japan or US so if thinking of replacing the CL, get it before the price changes.
Only about GBP39 inc.VAT from HUK whereas if you try to source it from Japan or US, you will be looking at about GBP90 even before the delivery/import tax.


Based on what Mani wrote in his post above and also his signature, his NSX is NA2 MT model and unless he owns NA2 Type-S, NSX-R or replaced the original main shaft, it's using the single disc type.
Based on these, it looks like the flywheel was re-used but the friction disc (and the pressure plate as well??) was replaced so you can't really compare the price without knowing the parts and labour charge separately.

Kaz

[manisandher]

Yes of course, mine is a single-disc CL and my flywheel was reused. £2,100 all in for the whole double-disc CL set now seems better value for money. Kaz did explain to me why Honda went from a double to a single-disc CL for the NA2 MT, something about bite-point and drive-ability IIRC... but it does seem like a bit of a backward step to me.

Mani.

[NSXGB]

For OEM twin disc type, there is no option but to buy everything as a set if you need to replace any of the flywheel, mid plate or the CL cover/basket/pressure plate. This is because you are meant to be replacing these as a set unless you acted early enough and able to just replace the two friction discs and re-use the rest.

Kaz

Kaz, I changed my complete clutch assembly when I upgraded to the 6 speed box. There was nothing wrong with the clutch I removed and I kept it in the hope it may be used in an emergency or refurbished. Would it be safe to assume that I could buy new friction discs and reuse the old clutch assembly without any further work?

[Mark N]

Once again thank you all the information its now starting to make more sense the differences in price. Now all I Need to do is tell the wife how much the car is going to cost to fix.

[paulc]

Once again thank you all the information its now starting to make more sense the differences in price. Now all I Need to do is tell the wife how much the car is going to cost to fix.

I think I will be joining you, just picking up the courage to tell my wife as well!!

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Kaz, I changed my complete clutch assembly when I upgraded to the 6 speed box. There was nothing wrong with the clutch I removed and I kept it in the hope it may be used in an emergency or refurbished. Would it be safe to assume that I could buy new friction discs and reuse the old clutch assembly without any further work?
Due to so many fresh posts recently (that is good for the NSX community), I only just found your post in this thread.

Obviously, you need to inspect pressure plate, mid plate, plate guide and flywheel before deciding to reuse them and just replace the two friction discs.
On a very rare occasion, I saw plate guide fallen off in the past.

There were several cases of torsion spring on the friction disc broke off and prevented the CL from disengaging but since you are replacing both discs, not concerned.


You need to look for the uneven wear especially on the flywheel.
I don't know about the European cars but it's not that common to replace the flywheel during the CL service on other JDM production cars so our NSX is quite unique from that point together with the use of twin disc structure.
It is possible that our NSX is using very high friction coefficient materials on the friction discs forcing the owners to replace the flywheel on many occasions when doing the CL service.


If you see very strong blue colour on the flywheel surface, you need to be bit careful on inspection.
You may not see the true metal characteristic of the flywheel at room temperature if it was burnt to that level.


For example, it is widely known that most of the time when one experiences the brake judder, it is caused by the uneven coat of the pad material left on the disc surface and not the so called 'disc warp' due to excessive heat generated.
Some aftermarket brake manufactures even claim that you can't warp the brake disc by the heat.


The truth is, you can warp the disc if enough temperature was applied in a certain way and it will change the molecule level metal characteristic.
Whether one can achieve this phenomenon using the affordable pad material on the market under certain driving condition is a different story.
You can learn a lot going through the R&D and patent papers regarding the brake system on the bullet train, etc.


I won't say the same thing is happening at the flywheel but the difficult thing is, depending on how the temperature was applied previously, the disc won't show its true characteristic (for example, warp) until it reaches the certain high temperature level and this temperature threshold always changes depending on how the temperature was raised each time.


So, you may have perfectly fine flywheel at room temperature but not so at the raised temperature.


If the surface doesn't look too blue or burnt, you should be fine.
If you have access to the specific dyno, you could try it before the installation.

Kaz

[NSXGB]

Thanks Kaz.