NSXCB - to be a Club or not to be - Poll

[sorepaws]

In many of my discussions with the organisers of the Silverstone Classic and Honda, it is becoming apparent that they at least find it harder to interface to a loosely connected group who are on the forum rather than a "Club".

This was very apparent in my dealings with SSC over the HONDA logo on the marquee and their future demand that unless there is a formal link between a "club" and the manufacturer in that we are able to use the HONDA logo and NSX logo we would need to cover up any such logos. This for us is not perhaps a problem, however Honda would then be unwilling to loan us the marquee and cover the relevant expenses or transportation, erection etc.

I have approached HONDA, who have stated that in rare exceptions they would allow the use of their IP and I quote:

"If we were to grant you permission to use the Honda name, would you be willing to sign an undertaking letter to confirm the following, amongst other things :

(a) that you will not use any of the Honda registered marks;
(b) not hold yourself as being endorsed by Honda in any way ( we will only grant approval to use the Honda name, which does not mean that Honda is aware of or endorsing your activities);
(c) that the Club will not engage into any commercial activities in the future which might be detrimental to official Honda dealers"

I rather enjoy the informality that we have as a loose collective, would this need to change if we were a club ? There are some occasions where being a "Club" would make it easier, in that we could decide how to spend any revenue from membership (assuming there was any). At this point in time we depend on the generosity of a few individuals, who maintain the forum server, administer the forum and maintain contact with external organisations.

So a question to be asked should we be a "Club" with a constitution and nominated individuals who are the focal point for key activities or do we continue to hope that we get the support we need from Honda and other generous individuals to maintain what we have ?

NSXCB should still be the focal point for all communications, but my suggestion would be that if there were to be a "HONDA NSX Owners Club GB" that would serve as the mechanism to organise events and manage the interface to other organisations.

Please Vote - it will help gauge opinion

[Nick Graves]

We had this over at S2Ki some years back and S2KUK was set up as a result.

The big problem is as I see it (and they agreed with my POV) is that an informal group isn't a proper body and thus when the marquee falls & kills someone, it's the poor sod who organised it takes the blame. You, probably...

So if you set it up as a Ltd Co., it's a separate entity which can sign contracts, get PL insurance etc, etc. and there is far more protection.

As a libertarian who dislikes anything organised (especially what is meant to be fun) it pains me to say it, but it's the modern world I'm afraid...

[exiges1]

From the forum title I thought this was already a 'Club', although I don't know what defines an official Club?

Although I don't post much I do browse and I don't think the ethos and behaviour of the forum would change as it seems well moderated by current posters ( members?). I belong to two other Clubs ( both Lotus), SELOC is very much an Internet forum based club and Club Lotus is definitely not ( quarterly magazine based communications and a basic website). Subscriptions are required for both however which I take it helps to maintain the administration costs of running the Club. Interestingly on some forums to access special discount deals etc you need to be a paid up club member. Another carrot is that for sale items are not made visible on the public forum for 7 days only the members can see the item for sale. There are many ways of providing members with benefits, perhaps some of the official vendors advertising would be prepared to offer such deals?

I take it his is the largest (only?) UK NSX forum and if so, what with the new NSX model coming next year, it would be a good time to become a formal Club especially if it eases tension with both Honda and events such as the SC. My vote would be yes.

Tony.

[britlude]

As we are already all active on the nsx CLUB Britain web site, our meeting place as we are a national (and international!) posse, what do they think a 'club' is or what is required?

As this is basically driven by Silverstone being a pain... So do we just need a SSC club and organising Committee'? Just to keep them happy? I can post up my lil car club constitution later if it helps...

[sorepaws]

Please use the poll to vote - you will see it at the top of the posting.

[lotusolly]

Sorry if I am being a bit slow but I'm not quite sure what we are voting for. What are the differences between the current arrangement and what we would need to be, to become a recognised club?

Do all members of a club have to make a contribution?
Would we have to have an elected or nominated committee?

These two questions spring to mind but I am sure there are other elements.

As an official club this could possibly help with producing agreed valuations for insurance purposes as the club may then be recognised in the eyes of the fleecing gits (sorry, meant insurance companies!)

Olly

[britlude]

having a think on it, becoming a club will be inevitable if we are to continue attending SSC and the like.

although there will be no change as far as we are concerned, as Mike has been and, hopefully, will continue to be the SSC/NSXCB liason officer :), the problem is with SSC and their attitude to honda lending kit to us.

as far as SSC is concerned, if we're not a 'club' with honda in the title we can't use the honda branded marquee, and if we can't use them then we effectively need to have some sort of club structure for buying/maintaining/storing/transporting/etc an NSXCB marquee(s)

as Brad Pitt says in the advert .......iiiinevitable!!!! unless of course Honda decide to get behind what could be the biggest UK NSX gathering...

[nobby]

imho how much of a toss does HUK give us as a group of passionate owners?
not being funny just an observation. sure they cant even look after their own houses :(
i would be concerned about representation of those members offshore - how would this be handled?

[Pride]

I too am confused (although it doesn't take too much to do that anyways)
This sounds like an important decision on the way we go forward.
It would be good to hear opinions and suggestions from our moderators as I'm sure there are many pros and cons to forming a club, so come Kaz and associates please give us some pointers as to which way to vote as an informed decision has to be far better than than just guessing.
Cheers.

[sorepaws]

imho how much of a toss does HUK give us as a group of passionate owners?
not being funny just an observation. sure they cant even look after their own houses :(
i would be concerned about representation of those members offshore - how would this be handled?

The forum would continue in the same way.
To give an idea how much HUK contribute, if a dealer wanted the facilities we get at Silverstone they would be expected to pay about £3,500.
Offshore membership of the forum doesn't need to change in my opinion.

[britlude]

Just a thought... Can't we ask permission to use 'honda' and 'nsx' with the club in its present form? We already effectively have area reps and local and national meets.... Or will Honda need a committee?

[sorepaws]

as per the email from Honda someone would need to sign that they agree to their terms for the use of HONDA and NSX - I am not sure if they would just accept that a person with no agreed authority could do that and they would be satisfied that this would be adhered to by all person who are part of the NSXCB - at this point in time no one person or persons are responsible for the actions of any "member" of the NSXCB as I understand it.

[lotusolly]

So basically it all comes down to liability?
I could understand that the chairperson of a club could be held responsible for moderating the activities within a club but not sure that they could be held accountable for the actions taken by any member!
If it gets around the problem, would Honda possibly accept, each member attending the event that they are assisting with, digitally signing there disclaimer?
Could simply be worded on the list of people wishing to attend an event, that buy putting there name on the list they are agreeing to the terms listed by Honda

[mutley]

If we became an "official" club, would HUK recognise us better and give discounts ( Honda Revolutions used to get discounts!)

If so, then I am all for that. Like others on here, I was already under the impression that we were an Owners Club, and when I get asked if I am a member of an owners club, I say yes and state NSX Club Britain.

Hope that helps (or makes a bit sense)

Jim

[duncan]

STATEMENT
The S2KUK is a ‘formal’ car club, it has an internal structure with an elected representation with an agreed abidance of RAC MSA protocols, NSXCB as forum group are not and do not.
At this years SSC we, or in particular Mike, suffered grief from the SCC organisers over the facilities supplied by HUK. They did not as far as I know object to our money.

QUESTION
Did S2KUK also suffer the same grief as ourselves – Mike, anyone?

ANSWER
If YES to the above question with S2KUK also getting grief; then being a formal club isn’t going help. So why go there?

If NO to the above question with S2KUK being untroubled; then ‘club’ status may be a way forward. Could we not for this one event [say] ‘piggy-back’ as the guests of a formal car club. Perhaps, and with their obvious agreement S2KUK would be an obvious choice.

My own view is that SCC is one event in the calendar, until a couple of years ago it didn’t exist and we didn’t gather there. NSXCB runs all year round 24/7. We are being asked to change our existing set-up for one event. Half price entry and a decent parking slot are nice but NSXCB is nicer.

Irrespective of the above, thanks need to go to Mike for having to date organised SCC on our collective behalves and to HUK for their support.

[sorepaws]

I think there are 3 issues that we need to consider
1. NSXCB as a forum has no need to change. It can continue to be the place where people exchange ideas - views sell and buy etc
2. Liability - as a forum we do not have any insurance to cover accidents "Public Liability Insurance" so for example whoever is the person who organises the event should something go wrong ie tent falls and damages another car they would be deemed liable. If however they were acting on behalf of a formal Club (ie Ltd Company" then they would be covered and the Club would be deemed liable.
3. The Use of HONDA and NSX - if we were to attend the 2015 SSC and use the same marquee from HONDA we would be required to cover up all Manufacturer trademarks and "advertising" - this would have no value to Honda in lending us the equipment etc. If however we form a Club "HONDA NSX Owners Club GB Ltd and have agreement from HONDA to use their fonts and registered trademarks we only need to add a suitable "cover" onto the Marquee to be compliant with the needs of SSC.

In answer to the specific questions above, YES S2KUK had the same issue but they have agreement from HONDA to use the "S2000" logo. About the SSC we have been attending as NSXCB now for 6 years (2008 1st) and the event is in its 25th year, the largest by public attendance in Europe. We could still go as the NSXCB, get half price tickets and an infield parking space, but we might well lose the marquee etc, which would then mean we have to find some resource to cover that AND we would need public liability insurance - for the past 6 years this has been covered by the company that manages the marquee.

[NSXGB]

I reckon we have more than enough in funds to buy a modest Gazebo, not sure how much PLI for that one event would cost but doubt it's that much.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/221267920752?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=108&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=108

[sorepaws]

We can buy our own. But it might need to be more substantial and would need to be shipped to site as I doubt it will go in an NSX with all the stuff to weigh it down.
Note from the EBay site

Warning:
We will not take responsibility for the frame or covers when they have been snapped due to wrong assembling or assembled in the wind and rain as the rain will just buckle the frame. It takes at least 4 people to assemble a 3m x 3m gazebo and 6 people to assemble a 3m x 6m gazebo. You must use sand bags or sand buckets and tie them down properly. The only way the bars snapped is down to user error and we will not accept any returns or refunds. You must not leave them up overnight again we will not be liable for any damage caused overnight.

I think we underestimate the logistics for a 3 day event.

We did in the past buy a Gazebo like the one above it was put up at the 2010 SSC and destroyed within 1 hour by the wind, fortunately the Aston Martins hadn't arrived - it could have been very expensive.

[NSXGB]

Agreed, the one I gave the link for was just to demonstrate that they aren't that expensive to buy (although obviously more research required).

Another option would be to hire a marquee for the weekend - that may come with some sort of PLI?


Just throwing a few ideas into the pot....

[flyingsniffer]

Why do we need a marquee? Just asking, as they say.

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

I think it will help with extra background information on why this discussion started.
Also, as I'm quite new to this forum (only joined in Sep/08) and always wanted to know 'who we are' such as how this forum started, it could be a good time writing something to understand the background of this forum as it may relate to part of the aspect of this discussion.


It is important to recognise that for any forum, there is a forumadmin (could be single person or group of people) and this person/group would drive the forum on where it wants to go and each users will make their own decision.
If the forumadmin doesn't necessarily lead the forum to a specific direction or don't post regularly, that could be seen as a kind of gesture to show his/her/their view as a relaxed/informal nature of the forum.
There is already a brief description that our forumadmin wrote so he could post it somewhere on this site or we could use substruct of it with his/her/their authorisation.


I think we need to respect the opinion of the long term active members.
As stated, I only joined the club in 2008 so no-where near to most of the members on here.


At this stage, no one owns the forum, in charge or represents the NSXCB as the original member's preference was the relaxed and informal nature.


From what I heard from Mike, he has been in discussion with SSC for several years on this topic...


I guess there are many members who have no idea on what we are talking about so hope followings will help you a bit.


https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-5Izfcd1JZ88/U9V8jv-K3kI/AAAAAAAASOI/bLtdCCmf9C0/s640/img_045.jpg https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-pX0q1TwynM8/U9V8P9xLgOI/AAAAAAAASLY/POccnLDvOns/s640/img_023.jpg
For example, this was what we had at SSC this year and the same/similar for the last few years.
We don't pay extra fee to SSC organiser for having this marquee during the event as we were not using it for marketing or commercial purpose.



https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-0iOqTVts2nM/U9V8bJpvzpI/AAAAAAAASM4/1S8OP-Od8rU/s640/img_035.jpg
On the other hand, there were big presence of other car manufactures during the event. Couldn't find better photos but please imagine rigid structual mobile office with desk and chair for several people.
They do pay extra fee to SSC organiser as they are using the event for the marketing purpose as well.
Some of the car clubs are ran by the car manufactures themselves so that makes difference as well.




https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Zd5n0zDfMSM/U9V8mr3U8tI/AAAAAAAASOg/T43yXHzy2Sc/s640/img_048.jpg
If you look at majority of other car clubs attending SSC without such backup from the manufactures, they only have camping tent, gazebo, etc or even nothing as their meeting place/point.
As far as I know, that's how we attend Japfest and while having the marquee is nice, it doesn't seem to be the big decision factor for attending the SSC event.


This is where SSC organiser has the point.
We are not linked with Honda UK, we don't pay this extra fee and although there is no Honda personnels at the marquee doing marketing operation, there is a big 'HONDA' logo and 'The Power of Dreams' on the marquee which could be seen as part of the advertisement.
If we hide them, it would be fine for the organiser but then if we look at from Honda point of view,one would question the purpose of the event support without commercial benefit.


It is true this subject is only related to SSC at this stage and while it would be really nice to have Honda support, one can hire catering furniture (not like the current Honda marquee but still decent one like some people uses for their open air wedding reception) if we want some sort of community space. They can set it up for us and there is insurance cover on the structure damages but also we can go further for PLI.
As NSXGB mentioned, just googled and found lots of hire marquee companies as well.
Or, we could attend without such equipment at all (like Japfest) as there are other venues available on site. If you want the luxuary, you can opt for the VIP pass as well.

Hope this info will support some of the members who never attended the SSC event.

Kaz

[Problem Child]

I reckon we have more than enough in funds to buy a modest Gazebo, not sure how much PLI for that one event would cost but doubt it's that much.http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/221267920752?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=108&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=108What? We have funds....I vote for flotation on the stock exchange

[havoc]

As a 'regular' at the SSC, the marquee is nice, but I don't see it as the be-all and end-all of this discussion.

What's more pertinent is how we're viewed by Honda (as well as stroppy event organisers), particularly with the new car coming out next year. And how much Honda may / may not want to involve us in their events or get behind us at ours. Being a 'club' will make this a lot easier for them...which may bring fringe benefits for us / opportunities for us if we want them.

The other issue - liability - is a key one for people like Mike who take the lead in organising events. I think we'd all be appalled if someone did get sued for a very silly reason, but as Nick has said, in the modern world...

[NSX 2000]

This thread is more important than ever due to the demands of the Silverstone Classic organisers.

I would recommend that we have a seprate club to the Forum (NSXCB), this would meet once a year and it's main objective would be to hold funds to pay for any PI that the club attends, such as SSC, Japfeast, Gaydon etc....

[havoc]

Having just read Mike's post I'm inclined to agree...whilst SSC is the only one insisting on this, the PL insurance may be of benefit at the other events we attend. It is a faf, but I don't see it taking anything away from the informal-club that is the forum - it'll just be an umbrella there to protect...