The NSX, road and track.

[Papalazarou]

I did a session at Castle at Castle Coombe on Saturday.
It was an action day and I went with some of the guys from the UJCC. Anyway, I was really interested to see what my NSX; a very good roads car in terms of handling and ride was like on a proper track.
first of all, I'd never done a track day so it was a major assault on my senses; so much going on and not knowing exactly what the other cars are going to do is a bit disconcerting.
However, the following things struck me about my car:
1. the handling was very predicatable
2. It's great on the road but a little soft for the track
3. the brakes weren't bad
4. the tyres overheated in the first 10 minutes (S03's)
5. the five speed box allowed me to hang onto gears longer on this particular track which was advantageous.
6. It's humbling to be passed by track prepped old shape minis.

Whilst I'm at it, does anyone think it would be possible to track an NSX on a budget or do you think it would turn into a financial world of pain?

Additionally, Is it possible to achieve a suspension set-up that would be acceptable for road and track?

Just interested to hear anyone elses observations.

James.

[graham h]

speak to Plans Motorsport

www.plansmotorsport.com

[Mr_Spanners]

Without sounding too harsh the last people I would be speaking to about 'tracking an NSX' is a business regardless of how impartial or helpful they may have been in the past. Bottom line is they will be trying to sell you a solution that a) suits them (financially or otherwise) and b) is purely based on their own experiences which may be limited.

Given that there are a good few people on here (and many more on Prime) who use their NSXs on track I would try and ask as many owners as possible as to the "real" costs of track\driving days, what changes should be considered for the car and then make your own judgement on whether you want to pour 'X amount' of pounds into such a hobby. Once you're aware of what you're dealing with then perhaps you'll have a better idea of where your priorities lie with regards to setting up the car for both road and track use. At this point it would be wise to go and talk to the companies who can sell you the kit and deal with the setup you require!

~Phil.

[Kevin]

I agree with the above.

First time on a track? or first time on a track in NSX? What makes you think your tyres overheated, especially in 10 mins?

If this is your first time on a track, and you are planning on doing more, then get some instruction. Don't worry about doing anything to the car for performance. Instruction will get you going faster, with less wear and tear on the car. People always complain about the brakes, tyres this that and the other.

Sure there are a couple of things that could help in the car department. Cooling the brakes, get some air into there. Expect to replace pads often. Tyres, well get cheap ones. While you're learning you may as well do it on cheap tyres. Get good oil, and change it more often than normal.

To be honest money would be better spent on a car more suited to the track. The NSX is heavy, and wearable parts will wear out quickly. It depends on what your definition of pain actually amounts to, financially.

I like using the NSX on the track. It's different. If I'm having a good day, people say how impressed they are with the NSX. If I'm not, it doesn't matter. It also takes some skill to drive the NSX. It's not self-driving like some of the new cars around, and I do track days to learn to drive.

Coming to Silverstone? Perhaps I'll get a chance to show you how a track suspension, is not that nice on the road!

[Senninha]

James,

I enjoy track days for much the same reasons as Kevin refers - it improves your everyday driving, sharpens your reflexes and allows you to enjoy your car safely.

For all the money you may spend to 'improve' the NSX for track use, the best money you will spend will be on yourself IMO.

If you fancy doing regular track days, then I would look for a car that is already biased to the track rather than the road and one where parts costs will be less financially painful.

Whatever you decide, enjoy yourself!

regards

[blue5]

I love track days but i would not dream of using my baby on one.

I couldnt bear to scratch the paintwork and it would probably cost a bomb in tyre wear so i bought a Caterham for £7k and prepped it for the track (£1500) and i have done possibly 10 so far with no further cost.

When i first got interested 6 years ago i found that old fluid boils and introduced me to brake failure. I then discovered that road pads "melt", brake failure again.

Road tyre pressures caused understeer and oversteer (different cars of course).

Lifting off in a corner caused me to spin

Bits that had been firmly attached to the car vanished!

Bits that looked inert and indestructable, destructed (how about a crankshaft pulley splitting!)

So once i put new fluid with decent pads, let the tyres down a bit and most importantly took lessons (i reccomend the lotus drivers course at Hethel and view it as the best £450 i have ever spent) oh yes and replaced all the bits that fell off or broke, i have never looked back.

I hope to do the "Drome" at the end of may and maybe one or more in the meantime.

Every time i open my garage door my caterham looks at me like a dog waiting for his walkies.

I can say no more.

[Rob_Fenn]

As we have found, the brakes are the weak point of the NSX. You may as well upgrade them to some degree (better pads, lines and discs) now as ultimately it will cost you an absolute fortune if stick to OEM.

I actually found the suspension fine on trackdays. Sure, it wallows a bit but a car that reacts slower will probably be much more entertaining for you and will make you a better driver. I believe this because stiffer suspension means you will have more grip, so less input is needed by you, but then when you get to the limit, you're facing the other way before you can say "NSX." The standard suspension is forgiving and allows you to play, which i loved!

You could get through a year of track driving without getting bored of the standard set up IMO. Lets face it, most people only upgrade their cars to disguise their ineptness behind the wheel. I would only recommend spending serious money when you are confident that you are as good as the car.

[Papalazarou]

I agree with the above.

First time on a track? or first time on a track in NSX? What makes you think your tyres overheated, especially in 10 mins?

!

Thanks for the input guys,

first of all, I think the tyres going off were a result of two factors
1. as I did more laps I got quicker which meant the car drifted more as I found the limits of adhesion.
2. because they actually were overheating. when I got back to the pits they were pretty shredded and very hot. I used to ride bikes a lot and you could always tell when the tyres were getting too warm.

I've just booked myself in for an Elise course at Coombe for the end of May so hopefully I'll improve and it will help me decide whether I want to track regularly.

With reference to Blue5's comment about not tracking his pride and joy, I actually agree, it's a pretty unsympathetic environment which I wouldn't want to put my car through again.
However, it was fantastic fun and if i get on well then I'll consider selling the NSX and getting a track orientated car. The problem is that I want to have my cake and eat it.
Is there are car out there which is both competent on track and road?


James.

[UltraViolet]

Is there are car out there which is both competent on track and road?

That will always be a compromise and TBH one that only you can judge.

I have never used the NSX on track as it is so far above my own driving talent and so I couldn't play near the limits which is part of the fun of track days. Plus I'd be so nervous of bending it that I'd not enjoy it.

I have a CRX which I use on track. That is a compromise car which IMO is fantastic fun on the road and still good on track. It will never be a track monster as I don't want it to be. If you get something that is a perfect track tool, it will be very compromised as a road car.

So you need really to be the judge of what compromise you want and then use a car you find fun. That is the key - fun first, fast second.

[Rob_Fenn]

You're always looking at the Elise of VX really, excellent ride (although unrefined wind noise at high speed) but still fun on the track. Being light weight it is fairly easy going on the tyres brakes etc. but you'd still end up spending money!

Maybe an MX5? Bullet proof, available from £3k...

[DamianW]

Echo the comments above really. I did a few laps of rockingham in my NSX. They were very gentle laps, but even so:
* the car is too soft for track work
* the brakes are made of swiss cheese, and mine are post 98 so a bit bigger.
* the steering is too slow

I occasionally hire a Caterham now for track days, which is a barrel of laughs and far more suited to the race track.

[Senninha]

James,

Once you've completed your Elise track training I think you will have identified your ideal track/road car.

I ran an Elise 135 as my only car for 12 months, 20k of mainly raod use but did manage a couple of track days and the Elise took everything I could throw at it and never complained once.

If you fancy the CRX route (they are great fun to drive and can be upgraded relatively cheaply), a mate of mine has one that may be for sale if you're interested?

regards

[Papalazarou]

Thanks again,
I'm tempted towards a S2 Elise/Exige but think I'd miss the NSX too much. I've also met some really cool people from the Japanese car clubs since I've own it and I fear that i'd lose contact with them if I strayed to another marque.
The CRX/MX5 route is certainly an option , so perhaps I'll wait and save up.
It's been an expensive month for the NSX; new tyres all-round, cambelt and water-pump, MOT and tax! Gotta stop driving it all the time!


James.

[sportyking]

I wouldn't put my NSX on a track, but the Nurburgring is nowhere near as brutal on a car as a pukka modern racetrack so I consider that fair game.

I read up on brakes and took advice from people in the know. With a few simple mods completed I have had no problem with the basic OEM setup, just using better fluid and pads. It is a big brake model though!

I did have a problem with the rear tyres overheating and am now trying to find a way ahead on that one.

Tyre problem aside, the standard suspension setup is a revelation compared against anything else I have owned, and if in good order can easily cope with stuff like the ring. I wasted a fortune changing the wallowy?? suspension on my S2000 and though I improved it for fast stuff, the car lost its all round ability. There is no need with the NSX unless you are converting it into a track only car like Darrens.

All the NSX really needs to do is to go on a diet and lose some weight from its fat arse... I reckon that would improve every aspect of the car, including my tyre problem