Best place for NA2 rear pads

[Mistercorn]

When I had my service done by a well known NSX servicing expert, one of the items which came up was that the rear pads were about due a change. I've tried looking on the usual places which I would use for my other cars but not many seem to stock them. I'm not after anything fancy, just normal decent road pads. Since the car is three feet up in the air with no wheels on it now seem like an ideal time to do the job. Any suggestions?

MC

[Pride]

Hi Mistercorn.
I would suggest the EBC Redstuff. Aprox £75, available from many stockists, just google it.
A tad more expensive than stock but a better bite, less dust and tend to last longer.
Guarantee you won't be disappointed.

[Mistercorn]

Thank you very much, I'll take a look. I had a bad experience with EBC yellowstuff in my 911 which were worse than the standard pads even with larger disks and 6 piston calipers. But then I don't tend to torture the brakes on my Honda.

MC

[Taikyu]

The DIXCEL ES pads. Better than many many competitors and only £55. Check out our trader section!

[Pride]

Yellow stuff is designed more for track use than road and sheds considerably more dust than the red and if like me, you just do occasional spirited road driving then just avoid the yellow and go red.
Dixcel sounds interesting though, could be worth a try.

[Mistercorn]

The issue I had with yellow stuff was that after 13 repeated stops from 70mph on 350mm disks with 6 piston GT3 calipers they were starting to fade. No bad performance, but at the same point on standard 996 turbo disks and pads there was no fade. I can confirm that it was the pads based on brake line pressure, pedal force, pedal distance, front and rear wheel speeds. I sold the pads after the test session on eBay for £35, I wouldn't use them on any car of mine based on that.

MC

[Taikyu]

Yellow stuff is designed more for track use than road and sheds considerably more dust than the red and if like me, you just do occasional spirited road driving then just avoid the yellow and go red. Dixcel sounds interesting though, could be worth a try.

You wouldn't be disappointed with the DIXCEL ES pads.. Very civilised in comparison with the other brands mentioned in the thread and pretty decent performance for the money. 0-600 degree operating temperature and less dust than OEM

[nobby]

How much is a set of fronts of the Dixel ES's for NSX?

just found your info! Sweet

would definitely like to try these over EBC Redstuff

how much is P&p to Northern Ireland for a full set?

[Taikyu]

How much is a set of fronts of the Dixel ES's for NSX?

just found your info! Sweet

would definitely like to try these over EBC Redstuff

how much is P&p to Northern Ireland for a full set?

The pads front and rear are £120

Carriage by UPS to NI will be about £20. However I could send up to 20kg for that if you need discs ;)

So £140 all in. I have the fronts in and I am expecting the rears on the order thats somewhere in the air over russia at the moment!

Let me know if you would like to place and order.
Anthony.

[nobby]

Hi AnthonyLet me know when all pads are in stock, not in major rush for em as car will be going into hibernation for winter soon. but handy to have these sorted for next year.No I do not need discs ... you just came along too late ... i upgrade earlier in the year as i could not get Dixcel as previous supplier was 'useless' to say the least. so glad your on boardthanks againandrew

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

When I had my service done by a well known NSX servicing expert, one of the items which came up was that the rear pads were about due a change. I've tried looking on the usual places which I would use for my other cars but not many seem to stock them. I'm not after anything fancy, just normal decent road pads. Since the car is three feet up in the air with no wheels on it now seem like an ideal time to do the job. Any suggestions?

MC
Hi, Mistercorn.
Not much mentioned about the brake balance but if you are replacing the pad especially just at the rear side on later spec caliper, please pay extra attention to the brake balance.

On your NSX, you have the later spec larger caliper and disc with latest ABS setup.
Honda shifted the brake balance massively towards the rear compared to the original design caliper/disc setup.

So, if you are mainly street driving with gentle/moderate braking, the rear pad tends to wear faster than the front one. Obviously, if you are using more aggressive braking or shifting the weight towards the front on purposely, the wear at the front will increase compared to the above driving style.


By the way, with the original caliper design, the balance was too much towards the front and Honda seemed to compensate it by using different pad material between the F & R but still, it was so easy to lock the front on approach to the 1st corner on track and with the famous slow response of the classic ABS, it made the handling even worse.
If you simply select the aftermarket pads and install exactly the same spec between F & R on early caliper spec, you are shifting the brake balance even further towards the front making it even worse.


Back to the original topic.
So, unless you are replacing both the F & R pads at the same time, you want to keep similar characteristic on the rear pad as the OEM one until next time you replace all pads at the F & R.
Some people uses different pad spec between F & R for specific reason but as you are not looking for something special, I'll leave it for now.


When I was in Japan, I used to use Dixcel discs a lot as they were cheap and good quality. In fact, I was using them even before they changed the company name to Dixcel.
After moving to UK, I kept using them and imported the disc from Japan as the exchange rate was so good at that time.
However, with the current exchange rate, the actual discounted price in Japan (super cheap) and knowing that some of the Dixcel discs were made in UK, it is no longer cost effective for me to keep using them these days.

Dixcel brand is fairly new in the pad industry compared to other Japanese brands. In fact, most of the Japanese ones are manufactured by the same limited number of factories.

I test driven the Dixcel Z pad on several NSX and they have very rigid pedal feeling and works from very cold temperature up to high temperature like when you go through twisty mountain down hill conditions so quite good all rounder.
The brake dust was quite high though.


I normally recommend EBC Redstuff for street driving condition especially if you are only replacing just one side (F or R) of the pad and also if re-using the disc.
It would be best to replace both the disc and pad at the same time but EBC pad has the abrasive coating on the top surface that it will help skimming the old pad material and re-condition the used disc surface.
The Dixcel ES pad has similar top coating to speed up the bedding in process as well.


No need to do any special procedure for the bedding in process.
Just drive normally without using harsh braking except under emergency case. I normally allow 300 - 500miles for the process after replacing both the pad and disc but if you are re-using the disc, it should be ready in much earlier stage.

I'll only buy the latest batch of EBC pads and for this reason, I only use ebcbrakeshop.co.uk.

I heard lots of scary pad failure reports on EBC Redstuff before they changed the pad material and the manufacturing process so I stayed away from them for a long time but after several NSX owners started using the new spec one and test driven it by myself, I gave them a try and happy with them so I now switched to EBC for both the disc and the pad on my NSX.
I have the same caliper and ABS setup as yours on my NSX.


Dixcel disc has advantage on appearance as they come with corrosion protection coating on the hat and outer edge of the disc. EBC one will show rust within short period after the installation.

It would be nice if the vendors can get the Dixcel PD or SD disc at very competitive price for the front set of original smaller diameter setup (although it's not correct, widely known as NA1 setup) and also for both the F & R set for the later larger diameter setup (again, wrong but known as NA2 setup).
For the Rear set on original smaller diameter setup, Honda OEM one is GBP46 each inc.VAT from your local Honda garage and you may be able to get it even cheaper with NSXCB discount, if they offer such thing.

Unlike Dixcel, EBC, Brembo, etc (they sell two discs as a single pair/set), you need to order single disc per corner separately if going for the OEM one.
In other words, if you want to replace RR and RL discs, you need to order two discs using the same OEM parts no..


It would be nice if the vendors can ask Dixcel to supply some sort of sample ES pads for UK based NSX owners for comparison testing purpose. I'm interested in back to back testing.
Obviously, one needs to have disc skimming facility or spare racing pads to remove old pad materials from the disc before trying out the different pad so it will be for the limited owners.


Probably I'm asking too much......


Kaz

[Mistercorn]

Thanks Kaz, I'll check the rear disk thickness before ordering to make sure there is plenty left. I don't suppose you could post the original thickness and minimum thickness could you? I was going to ask if you knew them but then realised how daft that was....

MC

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

I could be missing the point of your above post so apology in advance.....:)

For the rear, it's 23.0mm with the limit at 21.0mm thickness.
Normally, these numbers are engraved at the outer edge of the disc itself but obviously, you need to have access to your car and remove the wheel.....

Kaz

[Mistercorn]

Thanks Kaz, car is already up in the air with no wheels on, but the disk edges are rusty so the text might not be easy to read. I'll check them a week on Monday when I am back from China.

Martin

[Taikyu]

Hi AnthonyLet me know when all pads are in stock, not in major rush for em as car will be going into hibernation for winter soon. but handy to have these sorted for next year.No I do not need discs ... you just came along too late ... i upgrade earlier in the year as i could not get Dixcel as previous supplier was 'useless' to say the least. so glad your on boardthanks againandrew

Discs and pads will be in stock a week Monday. Let me know if you want to place an order.

Thanks for the warm welcome
Anthony

[Taikyu]

Kaz, there is some great info there. Thanks.

As the Eu distributor for DIXCEL I am happy to help out with some testing. I have the facility to get discs skimmed here in Somerset, if that helps.

As a comparison to the red stuff pads the ES exceed it in every way and are more comparable to the EBC yellow stuff. However after chatting to EBC this week I was surprised to find out that the active heat range is 0-500 where as the ES is 0-600! The ES is much more civilised.

With regard to prices, we do the best we can. The ES is extremely affordable and the Z type is an outstanding pad and worth the extra dosh. With regard to the discs the exchange rate is still against us but I hope the package deals make them more attractive.

Look forward to hearing your thoughts.

[darock]

I have a not fully topic related question which has come up while reading Kaz's post.

My car is a 92 with stock brakes all around. It starts to vibrate when getting hot so at least one of the discs has excessive pad material on it or lets say its "warped" as its the wrong but common term for it.

I managed to clean up a "warped" disc on my civic with the aggressive break in coating of yellowstuff pads so I thought I might try that with the nsx as well BUT ...

Now I am a little concerned ...

I don't want to mess up the brake balance by putting yellows all around. So what is the best solution? What pads should be combined to optimize the braking?

Upgrading to the later brake system is a big cost factor so I try to avoid it for now until I find a cheap set to upgrade. The only thing beside the vibration that really annoys me about the brakes is the ABS because it needs an overhaul. I think it has partially stuck valves as the car tends to lock up wheels but not all the time. I have the rebuild kit from warren (prime) already but need to find the time to do it.

Long story short ... The more I read the more I am confused :D

Bernhard

[Problem Child]

When I had my service done by a well known NSX servicing expert, one of the items which came up was that the rear pads were about due a change. I've tried looking on the usual places which I would use for my other cars but not many seem to stock them. I'm not after anything fancy, just normal decent road pads. Since the car is three feet up in the air with no wheels on it now seem like an ideal time to do the job. Any suggestions?

MC

Best place for rear NA2 pads is......in the rear!!!! LOL!!!!.....Sorry it was too good an opportunity to miss!!!

Seriously though EBC Redstuff are good but do generate a lot of brake dust

Merry Christmas and a Prosperous New Year to one and all in the NSXCB. I look forward to meeting you all again in the New year at various events

[Senninha]

Hi MC,

EBC have recently changed the compound mix. My last set of redstuff's gave off quite a lot of dust as you have experienced yourself, however, my current set, bought direct so was assured of the latest compound have deposited very litttle dust in 2k miles of use.

Hope this helps, Seasons Greetings,

regards, Paul

[Mistercorn]

I fitted the red stuff ones, bought directly from EBC. I have only done about 50 miles since, the car is safely tucked up in the garage until the bad weather passes.

MC

[NSXGB]

You get a bit of extra dust till the surface coating has worn off but the red stuff don't seem much different to OE dust wise after that, in my opinion.

[Pride]

I think what tends to make the real big difference with excessive brake dust is drilled and slotted discs.

I've been using redstuff front and back now for at least ten years but always with drilled or slotted discs, I intend changing the front discs in the new year with Dixcel PD basic flat discs just as soon as they get them in stock (I've been waiting now since November) and I will let you all know the dust difference once fitted.

[NSXGB]

Be careful Clive, you will have people sniggering at your plain brake discs...



I think what tends to make the real big difference with excessive brake dust is drilled and slotted discs.

I've been using redstuff front and back now for at least ten years but always with drilled or slotted discs, I intend changing the front discs in the new year with Dixcel PD basic flat discs just as soon as they get them in stock (I've been waiting now since November) and I will let you all know the dust difference once fitted.

[Pride]

Be careful Clive, you will have people sniggering at your plain brake discs...
Oh my god, that's true, cheers Simon.
I forgot to mention, that I'm also installing a unique water cooling system on them, that should really keep the dust levels down don't you think???

[Taikyu]

Just in case its of interest to anyone we have had a stock shipment arrive and DIXCEL discs and pads can be ordered through our website now. I updated the thread in the trader section here : http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.php?12439-DIXCEL-Advanced-Brake-Technologies-Deals-and-Packages&p=113233#post113233