Replacement dampers...recommendations for mainly fast-road use

[havoc]

Considering getting some replacement dampers in the new year, as with 110k on the clock I figure the originals are probably a little tired.

Done some digging on here and Prime, and the Bilsteins seem to get a good review when used with OE springs - has anyone got / used this combination?

Other thoughts:-
- stick with OE, depending on price - I like the compliance of the standard car
- Go to full Type-S suspension - gets very good reviews but c.£2k landed cost before fitting.
- Go to the BC coilovers or similar - how does this compare?

Final question - where to source any/all of the above from?


Pertinent comments:-
- Car is a 96 coupe
- I'd rather not drop the ride-height that much - visually it looks like it could lose 10-15mm quite happily, but I'm more interested in the right performance (compliance vs control) than the visuals
- I've owned a few 'lesser' Type-R's so I'm not averse to a stiffer ride, but I'd like to keep it sensible so it's still comfortable on long journeys - think DC2 ride not DC5 ride (and certainly not FD2).
- Currently got a Type-R front chassis bar (think chassis bar not ARB...Kaz noticed it at health check, I've not looked for a few years) fitted, but have been toying with removing that for a little while now as the default state does seem to be clear understeer.


Thanks,

Martin.

[drmikey]

Martin,

I highly recommend the H&R/Bilstein setup or OEM/Bilstein if you are concerned about ride height. Myself and Bas run the same setup (mine is on the lower perch for lower ride height). Very compliant quality ride. Bas went from KWs to Bilstein so chat to him about the difference.

Avoid cheap quality coilovers.





Considering getting some replacement dampers in the new year, as with 110k on the clock I figure the originals are probably a little tired.

Done some digging on here and Prime, and the Bilsteins seem to get a good review when used with OE springs - has anyone got / used this combination?

Other thoughts:-
- stick with OE, depending on price - I like the compliance of the standard car
- Go to full Type-S suspension - gets very good reviews but c.£2k landed cost before fitting.
- Go to the BC coilovers or similar - how does this compare?

Final question - where to source any/all of the above from?


Pertinent comments:-
- Car is a 96 coupe
- I'd rather not drop the ride-height that much - visually it looks like it could lose 10-15mm quite happily, but I'm more interested in the right performance (compliance vs control) than the visuals
- I've owned a few 'lesser' Type-R's so I'm not averse to a stiffer ride, but I'd like to keep it sensible so it's still comfortable on long journeys - think DC2 ride not DC5 ride (and certainly not FD2).
- Currently got a Type-R front chassis bar (think chassis bar not ARB...Kaz noticed it at health check, I've not looked for a few years) fitted, but have been toying with removing that for a little while now as the default state does seem to be clear understeer.


Thanks,

Martin.

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Hi, Martin.
Recently, I commented on the similar topic for the new owner in this thread - http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.php?12586-just-bought-my-NSX – so I'll cut and paste some of the points with extra info for you.


The key point is;
For the suspension area, if it's from the well known manufactures, in general, you will get what you paid for.


R&D takes lots of time, simulation and facility in this area and that will be reflected in the price.
For example, I think KW V3 was developed with multi post rig and test driving using real NSX. It's expensive but probably one of the best balance between the cost and performance for the driver who cares about the 0.1sec difference in the lap time.
However, if you don't know how to setup the chassis, I'm afraid you are going to rely on someone's setup which may not suit your style. I test driven it several times and while I could feel the benefit, the setup used for another owner was not for me especially the rebound side.



It all depends on what you are after, driving condition, how you drive, etc.


You can check the age of existing damper by the date stamped on the damper body if it's the OEM one.
You may want to check all four because sometimes, I noticed that part of the dampers were replaced with later ones on some of the NSX.


If you are very unlikely to drive into the area with serious speed hump or steep slope that you can find at the entrance/exit of some of the parking tower/bay like in other countries, BC Racing coilover kit will offer you good balance between the cost and the ability at very reasonable price.
Haven't checked recently but there were several vendors offering a certain discount from time to time for the NSX kit.
Please double check the spring rate as BC changed the standard combination a while ago.

The front rideheight will be massively low even at the highest parch (about 30 – 35mm drop) and without adding 10mm disc sandwiched between the front coilover top mount and mounting point at the frame, you will have hard time driving through even the mild slope.
If you want to keep the OEM F&R rake, you will need to drop the rear massively as well. Rear side has plenty of rideheight adjustment left unlike the front side so not a problem but if you drop too far, you are going to struggle when going over the speed hump.
There are several owners with this kit and happily driving regularly without any issues even with the massive drop in rideheight so it's probably just around my area.
I speciafically ask the owner with lowered rideheight not to enter my area from one route as the speed hump is so high.

Still, it has simple one adjustment for compression/rebound so it will be the limiting factor (compromise, hence, kind to your wallet) but probably good enough for most of the drivers for street usage.
Some examples here; http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/blog.php?1811-Today-at-Atelier-Kaz-NSX-Enthusiast&tag=bc+racing

When the time comes and the damper is at the end of its life, you will replace the damper body with a new one for this class of BC kit instead of re-building like you normally do for the mid/high end system.





If you want to keep the OEM rideheight or just about 20-25mm drop, then Bilstein damper + your existing OEM spring would be a good combination. This damper allows the owner to set the rideheight at two different position (OEM or 20-25mm lowered) on damper installation.
If you have rideheight requirement or travelling to other country, this is a good option.
Every time when I install this on NSX, I quite like the feedback and drive quality. It feels like the tyre is biting into the road surface even under rough surface and it doesn't upset the car when loading and releasing the weight from one corner repeatedly like going in and out of the roundabout.

At the entrance/exit of some of the underground car park or parking tower in France, Spain, Italy, Monaco, etc, you are really going to have big time if the car was lowered massively.
If I don't live in the area with so many speed humps, I would like to use BC Racing damper with Swift spring but as I drive my NSX every day, I'll probably scrape off my front nose spoiler fairly quickly even with the 10mm disc added at the front so I'll probably use Bilstein at lower parch instead.
Some examples here; http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/blog.php?1811-Today-at-Atelier-Kaz-NSX-Enthusiast&tag=bilstein
I think several owners bought it from DC Performance.

I never claimed this but I think Bilstein will cover the damper body with lifetime warranty as long as you are the buyer of the damper and owner of the car at the time of failure so this could be another facotr for making decision.




If you know how to setup the car and have access to race team flat patch, you can't go wrong with the KW V3. It's probably one of the most thought after kit with real NSX in mind and developed/tested under race team setup as well.
However, as mentioned at the beginning, it will require the driver's knowledge and feedback in order to set it up for one's demands. Personally, for mainly street driving, you won't be using the full potential for what you paid for.
There are several UK owners who installed this kit so you may be able to get further feedback but again, something worked for other owners doesn't mean the same for you like I experienced with this kit using different setup from my taste.

Please check how often it needs overhaul. On some of the kit with aluminium body, you will need frequent service. I don't have enough experience to comment on KW V3 from the point of maintenance so best to ask KW or other owners with setup facility.



Regarding the OEM Type-S kit....
I have it on my NSX and also tested it on many NSX while in Japan and I think it was the biggest mistake I made on my NSX.
There is significant difference in road surface/material used between Japan and UK.
While it performs really well on the smooth road surface and tiny particle material used on the road construction (the one you will find on the self-drainage road surface commonly used on Japanese road), I loose traction from time to time with rough surface or on concrete like road material.

Also, if you put Type-S kit on standard NSX model, the weight distribution is different so your rear rideheight will drop more than the front and you will be just at the edge of the window or no longer be able to keep the OEM F&R rake.
I had to add 5mm disc on top of the OEM Rear mount. You can't go any thicker as there is not enough thread left on the OEM top mount.
For street driving, it's fine even without this 5mm disc at the rear but you will notice the effect on the handling when driven hard especially on track.

[As a side note, I would love to take the suspension out if I can find some time but I may need to use that time for the CL service as I think it's getting close to the end of its life. No slip yet but pedal feels bit heavier than it used to be and already covered well over 110K miles.]

Depending on your option, you may want to replace some of the OEM parts that will be involved in assemblying the new coilover kit.


Kaz

[havoc]

Thanks Mikey - will drop Bas a line.

Kaz - great, detailed reply as always...appreciate you taking the time.

Sounds like the simple answer is to get the Bilsteins and play with ride height, see what I like. I know I'm not a good enough driver to get the best out of KW's, so no point spending the money, and I like the flexibility of the car so BC's might be out too...

[NSXR Spain]

Hi Kaz,
only one question, I have in my car ( NSX 1993 ) the NSX-R 2002 OEM coilovers, with front type-R swaybar and original sway bar on rear , the type S suspension last generation is similar or softer and to drive the car more daily?

I heard that type S suspension mount in front original swaybar and behind something thicker , is true?

I'm happy with the suspension type R 2002 suspension, but would like to have one more comfortable, plug and play and if OEM better


thanks
Remi

[greenberet]

... I have in my car ( NSX 1993 ) the NSX-R 2002 OEM coilovers, with front type-R swaybar and original sway bar on rear , the type S suspension last generation is similar or softer and to drive the car more daily?

I heard that type S suspension mount in front original swaybar and behind something thicker , is true?

I'm happy with the suspension type R 2002 suspension, but would like to have one more comfortable, plug and play and if OEM better

If you haven't seen it, there is some good information regarding OEM spring and damper rates here (http://nsxprime.com/wiki/Suspension) and about OEM sway bar thicknesses here (http://nsxprime.com/wiki/Sway_and_Strut_Bars). Hope that helps!

[NSXR Spain]

If you haven't seen it, there is some good information regarding OEM spring and damper rates here (http://nsxprime.com/wiki/Suspension) and about OEM sway bar thicknesses here (http://nsxprime.com/wiki/Sway_and_Strut_Bars). Hope that helps!

Thanks!!
was mainly know if anyone had tried both suspensions and if there was a difference between them, Type R 2002 and Type S

[havoc]

Decided on OE + Bilsteins. I'd like to keep the car moderately stock and these seem like a good combination, esp. as the Bilsteins have been developed to work with OE springs.

Cheapest Bilsteins would seem to be imported from SoS or Dali, even after freight, tax and duty. So that's straightforward.

Cheapest OE...I can get a good deal through local main dealer (a little over £400 for the set), but I noticed there are several different part #s for springs...which is where I got a little lost!
...so I did some digging, and an Acura parts website gave me the following details (butchered about a bit...)


pos
parts no
parts name
Fitment
PRICE/1 QTY(USD)


1
51401-SL0-J02 (http://jp-carparts.com/honda/part_detail.php?maker=honda&type=NSX&cartype=26928&fig=B&fig1=2800&fig2=1) Add inquiry (http://jp-carparts.com/honda/part_detail.php?maker=honda&type=NSX&cartype=26928&fig=B&fig1=2800&fig2=1#)
SPRING, FRONT (SHOWA)
Zanardi edition
USD 94.25


1
51401-SL0-013 (http://jp-carparts.com/honda/part_detail.php?maker=honda&type=NSX&cartype=26928&fig=B&fig1=2800&fig2=1) Add inquiry (http://jp-carparts.com/honda/part_detail.php?maker=honda&type=NSX&cartype=26928&fig=B&fig1=2800&fig2=1#)
SPRING, FRONT (MITSUBISHI)
Discontinued?
USD 97.50


1
51401-SL0-601 (http://jp-carparts.com/honda/part_detail.php?maker=honda&type=NSX&cartype=26928&fig=B&fig1=2800&fig2=1) Add inquiry (http://jp-carparts.com/honda/part_detail.php?maker=honda&type=NSX&cartype=26928&fig=B&fig1=2800&fig2=1#)
SPRING, FRONT (MITSUBISHI)
95-02 Targa
USD 94.25


1
51401-SL0-902 (http://jp-carparts.com/honda/part_detail.php?maker=honda&type=NSX&cartype=26928&fig=B&fig1=2800&fig2=1) Add inquiry (http://jp-carparts.com/honda/part_detail.php?maker=honda&type=NSX&cartype=26928&fig=B&fig1=2800&fig2=1#)
SPRING, FRONT (MITSUBISHI)
Discontinued?
USD 158.60


1
51401-SL0-961 (http://jp-carparts.com/honda/part_detail.php?maker=honda&type=NSX&cartype=26928&fig=B&fig1=2800&fig2=1) Add inquiry (http://jp-carparts.com/honda/part_detail.php?maker=honda&type=NSX&cartype=26928&fig=B&fig1=2800&fig2=1#)
SPRING, FRONT (SHOWA)
97-02 Coupe
USD 94.25


1
51401-SL0-981 (http://jp-carparts.com/honda/part_detail.php?maker=honda&type=NSX&cartype=26928&fig=B&fig1=2800&fig2=1) Add inquiry (http://jp-carparts.com/honda/part_detail.php?maker=honda&type=NSX&cartype=26928&fig=B&fig1=2800&fig2=1#)
SPRING, FRONT (MITSUBISHI)
91-96 coupe
USD 97.50



Kaz - does this look correct to you?

(Rears here for completeness...)


pos
parts no
parts name
REQUIRED QTY
Fitment
PRICE/1 QTY(USD)


9
52441-SL0-J01
SPRING,REAR (SHOWA)
-
Zanardi
-


9
52441-SL0-013
SPRING,REAR (MITSUBISHI)
-
91-94 Coupe
-


9
52441-SL0-601
SPRING,REAR (MITSUBISHI)
-
95-01 Targa
-


9
52441-SL0-902
SPRING,REAR (MITSUBISHI)
-
Discontinued
-


9
52441-SL0-961
SPRING,REAR (SHOWA)
-
97-01 Coupe
-


9
52441-SL0-981 Add inquiry (http://jp-carparts.com/honda/part_detail.php?maker=honda&type=NSX&cartype=19668&fig=B&fig1=3000&fig2=9#)

SPRING,REAR (MITSUBISHI)
-
91-96 Coupe Auto
/ 95-01 Targa
USD 111.80





Last question - would NA2 springs fit on an NA1 car? As the Bilsteins are slightly firmer than OE ones, I wondered if the slight increase in spring-rate (10% frt / 5% rr) to NA2 would be a good match. Alongside that - are the ride-heights the same???

[Senninha]

Hi Martin, if you can hang on few weeks I'll post up pics of my NA2 on OEM/Bilstein combo for you to see indicative ride height. It will be slightly higher then final position as replacing OEM mounting bushes, but will give you an idea.
Rgds Paul

[darock]

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7529/15931735958_ae3c157aa2.jpg

OEM 91 Springs with Bilstein on lower perch. 17/18" rims. Perfect ride height, no problems with speed bumps whatsoever.

I have drive a lot different suspensions and combinations of parts of all kinds of manufacturers (not in the NSX though) and by far, this car rides the nicest I have ever felt in a sportscar.

I told a good friend, the car would be more comfortable than his 2010 Audi A3 but he did not believe me. I gave him the key and he was immediately blown away by the way the car goes over bad road surfaces.

I thought about getting BC or D2 coilovers but this bilsteins are so good I don't want to ruin this perfect ride comfort but still great cornering performance.

For me, its a really good compromise for sporty street driving.

Bernhard

[havoc]

Paul - thanks for the offer - have already seen some pics (and recall Mikey's car from last summer), so happy with that shout vs e.g. H&Rs or Tanabes. I was more thinking would fitting NA2 springs to an NA1 car affect anything much?

Bernhard - thanks for the vote in favour...nice to have someone else who rates that combination for (fast-)road use.

[harkes]

@havoc Did you end up buying the Bilsteins? From where and how much did they cost you in hand?

[havoc]

Hi Harkes,

Yes I did - bought from DC Performance in the end, but AS Motorsport were a similar price and Adnan's a good guy. Think ~£190 a corner, give-or-take - you want Bilstein B6's.

They're definitely a little stiffer and a little crashier than (leggy) NA1 Coupe dampers - at low speeds it feels like a small step back as you've lost some of the 'magic carpet' feel the NSX does so well (still rides better than most modern hot hatches, mind, and probably Bernhard's mate's A3 S-Line...so it's all relative - it's still an easy car to do big distances in). The trade-off is less body roll and a slightly more tied-down feeling at speed.

So I'd say they're not a 100% match for OE springs, but they're close and they're definitely an improvement overall. If I had a bigger budget I'd probably have gone for KW V3's, but they're twice the price or more.

There's a good comparison page on Prime which is worth a read, as an addition to Kaz's comments and the other opinions on p.1 here.