NSX Targa

[gunner]

Hi there.This is my first post on this terrific site.I am a longterm Porsche driver and have been fortunate enough at any given time to own most incarnations of the 911 from the 993 model onwards.I have never strayed from the brand but I am seriously tempted,for the first time,by the NSX.
I have arranged a test drive this weekend and I am looking for some advice and answers to the following questions.In order of priority (and forgive me if I am dredging up old topics,I have not yet had time to thoroughly explore this site):

1)Does a targa feel any different to the coupe?I am an occasional track driver so would that affect your answer?

2)Is paying up for a late car a stupid course of action?I am in the fortunate position of being able to afford a later model and tend to like more recent cars where possible.Am I missing a trick here though?Would that be very foolish from the perspective of residuals or are prices stabilising given the rarity of recent cars?

3)Is there anyone else on here who has gravitated from Porsche?Having driven some fairly monstrous 911's am I going to be disappointed by the NSX's comparative lack of bhp in comparison?

Many thanks in advance.Any tips most appreciated.

[Kevin]

Prices on a new car will drop more than an old car, just like anything. Depends how long you intend to keep it for. The lastest car should perform the best out of the standard cars, but with the money saved on a old one a few changes will make it better then any new one for track use.

The price now for a 3.2l (from 1998 onwards) is as much as I paid for my 3.0l 1992 7 years ago.

MarkC is the best to know the Porsche to NSX change. He hasn't gone back to a Porsche yet so......

[DamianW]

I went for a relatively late, low mileage car just for a bit of piece of mind - only previous owner was Honda UK, came with a warranty, bought from Honda dealer so I figured I couldn't go too wrong. And, touch wood, I haven't, its never missed a beat and I often get comments about what a clean example it is.

I can see the appeal of an older car too, particularly a non PAS version, but then you need to do your homework a bit more and make sure its been looked after etc, and I knew I was historically rubbish at that!

Can't comment re Porsche, other than I see 911s virtually everyday. Doesn't make them bad cars mind.

[trackdemon]

Targa is supposedly a little less stiff, and the track is one of the few places you'd notice the difference. In saying that I'm merely repeating the accepted wisdom rather than speaking from personal experience (my NSX is a coupe). I suspect its a matter of personal priority - do you value wind in the hair more than that last % of structural rigidity / handling precision?

IMHO your money is better spent on a good condition early model, as the difference between (eg) a 96 3.0 5 spd and an '01 3.2 6 spd isn't so great as to justify the extra £10k (at least) outlay. £10k buys a lot of trackdays / tyres / holidays / stocks and shares...... However, to contradict myself :P I really dont know what I'd 'upgrade' my 95 3.0 for in the £30-35k price bracket other than perhaps a later 3.2 6spd. I just prefer the money in the bank than tied up in a toy....

I've experienced 3 very nice 911's recently - 996GT3, 3.2 Carrera, 997S: no, an NSX will not be a disappointment; performance figures are very similar to that of a 3.4 993 but the delivery is a little broader and of course you get 'that' noise. I've driven some very special stuff recently through some photographic work I've been doing and I can assure that the chassis still stands up (and in many ways shows the folly of todays pursuit of licquorish profile tyres & ultra stiff suspension - the NSX 'flows' with the road like few cars I've ever driven).

[markc]

Hi Gunner,

As Kevin indicated I moved from a 1995 993 Carrera (C2) to a 1997 NSX (Type S).

I'm a huge petrolhead in general although I tend to stay with a car for a while rather change them regularly. Apart from gradually modifiying them to your own taste, I find you get to know them better and are better able to get them most enjoyment out of them in this way.

Anyway, I had my 993 for 5 years from early 2000 to early 2005. During this time I had the engine re-mapped by AMD and had their (Milltek)exhausts installed at the same time. I later fitted Bilstein PPS-9 suspension set to RS ride height and alignment (geometry) and sat the car on RS replica 18" wheels. I also fitted RS/Turbo 322mm discs up front. I then RS'd the interior by removing the rear seats and fitting RS style carpet and replaced the standard 8 way electric seats with a pair of Recaro Pole Positions. Finally I fitted the Turbo/S nose.
I loved that car and will defend the 911 from it's detractors whenever the subject comes up. :evil:
I've also driven Boxster's and 996's so know the modern cars reasonably as well.

W.R.T grunt, the 3.2 NSX is a touch faster than a 993 or Boxster S (earlier ones at least) and probably on a par with a 996. However it will feel slow if you've just jumped out of any Porsche Turbo derivative! The NSX is most similar to the Boxster S in feel and I suspect it will be even more similar to the Cayman which I haven't driven.

As many people will attest the NSX is NOT about sheer grunt. As an overall package it goes faster and punches harder than the raw specs suggest it should but the pleasure is in how the package works together. In this respect the recent reviews of the Cayman make it sound even more similar. However what the Caymen doesn't have is the (still) exotic all aluminium construction and background of the NSX's development ie born out of Honda's F1 program and with that Senna connection. 8)

I track day'd my 993 and have done one so far in my NSX. The NSX is easier to lap quickly in but I have to caveat this by saying that my Type S has a lot firmer suspension (eg +80% stiffer front springs) than UK spec cars. The UK spec NSX's looked to have a lot more roll on track (Donington) even if they seemed to actually hang on just as well.
Despite their relatively weedy looking spec the NSX brakes work remarkably well on track. Probably not quite as much endurance as my upgraded Porsche set-up but similar to the original 304mm disc, 4pot Brembo kit. Both cars EAT brake pads at the same alarming rate on track, particularly the rears!

I've had the NSX for 16 months now and do not regret making the change. I'd have loved to have both but that was never a possibility.

You can probably tell I was a wannbe RS owner in the Porsche world. IF I had a original 993RS I may not have changed, but my "sort of RS" replica was never going to be the real thing and theres a huge price gap between a cooking 993 Carrera and a 993RS.
My "blank sheet of paper" fantasy NSX was always going to be Type S based and when the car I now own came up for sale I was always going to have a hard time not buying it, especially as it was in my favourite but definately love it or loath it shade of Imola Orange Pearl. :D

I am now starting down the modification path on the NSX. :roll: So far simple stuff like brake deflectors and an exhaust (both from Dali in the US) to give it a "voice" to the outside world that I personally feel it lacks. You can't argue with the soundtrack from inside the car.... fantastic, wonderful, fabulous etc

As with nearly all cars you'll lose far more money on a newer one through depriciation alone than an older model with lose through running costs assuming nothing big (engine/gearbox) lunches itself.
Sounds like you're probably looking at post 2002 facelift model which gives you the benefit of a new(ish) car. Folks seem to be split on whether the looks of the facelift are an improvement on the earlier pop-up models or not but that is down to personal taste. Dynamically all post '97 3.2 cars are the same save for wear and tear effecting performance.

Trying to be impartial for a moment it's kind of hard to justify blowing £40K+ on an NSX instead of say a Cayman/996/Z4M Coupe or even an M3CS/Tuscan/T350C etc BUT these alternatives are either a bit clinical (tho' the NSX gets accused of this) OR or too rough and ready/unreliable OR cheesy OR just plain common!

If you do choose to go with an NSX it's likely to be because you'd rather not go with the herd even if everybody else thinks you're barking.

I always had a problem with the image of being a Porsche owner and was as often as not embarrassed to own up to the fact. A bit like I would have problem wearing a Rolex watch.... no such problems with the NSX. 8)

Cheers

Mark

[simonprelude]

Pretty good sumnation Mark.

Currently there is a friends Boxster S on the drive (with Porsche sports exhaust) and I really don't understand it.

When you floor it there is a kick, but you then have to change gear all too quick. With the NSX (and also S2000) it just seems right, it is a different style but one that when you get used to it makes more sense.

As for NA1 3.0, NA2 3.2 and NSX 3.2 facelift, then the choice really has to be made on £££ and driving experience.

There are a number of cars for sale at the moment, some you will have to travel for, but test drives shouldn't be as hard as if you were looking for something slightly more exotic.

Alternatively see if anyone in your area can show you round their car's.
Should help to weed out any bad examples that could deter you.

[TheQuietOne]

I have to agree with all of the above, and second Simon's assertion that if you are near one of us I'm sure we'd all be happy for you to have a look around our cars to start to get a feel for them and for you to hear the sound inside...

If you start to have a look it is a good idea to run anything past the forum and see if any of the recent buyers have looked at it previously and found anything out.

I've had mine for a few weeks of a year and am still smiling :wink:

Matt.

[gunner]

I can't thank you all enough for the advice/commentary.I am hoping to test drive the car thoroughly tomorrow morning and will report back with my thoughts.Funnily enough I am using a (borrowed) Cayman temporarily as an everyday car at the moment so the comparison will be interesting.The Cayman is hugely capable,an impressive little package but clinical,cheesy,dull even,are all words that spring to mind.The NSX very definitely does appeal for precisely all the reasons you guys have so eloquently articulated above.I saw the Pistonheads comments as featured on another thread.I hugely respect that man's motoring opinions and when he says,at one point,(and I paraphrase) that Porsche have perhaps engineered out all the quirkiness of having the engine in the wrong place.that struck a massive chord with me.That and the fact that everyone in London seems to have a 997.
Anyway,watch this space for my observations if you're interested.

[trackdemon]

Hi Gunner,

I've also spent some time at the wheel of a Cayman a month or so agao and I'd agree with the 'clinical' / 'dull' comments: stepping straight from a nearly new Cayman S into my lowly(!) £20k '95 3.0 NSX and trying to remain reasonably objective I can honestly say that the NSX was the more thrilling drive. There's just more to it, the car communicates better (this surprised me) and certainly it flows with the road better - its that over firm suspension / very large wheel combo which I'm sure makes the Cayman less fun on a typical British B road. The Cayman was a little quicker and more practical but the NSX just gave me a better buzz; its got more character and as such is more comparable to a 911 than a Cayman price disparity notwithstanding.....

The NSX sounds way better than both and changes gear nicer than just about anything though.... ;)

cheers,
Steve

[Nick Graves]

It's probably unfair to sincle out the Cayman; most modern cars seem to have had a steering feel bypass.

They mostly run too heavy, have ridiculously huge wheels and are, as Gunner nicely puts it, "cheesy."

It's probably worth mentioning that the T runs slightly softer suspension than the coupe. Apparently, it's to give the car more of a 'cruiser' feel. This is possibly modifiable, if desired.

The shell isn't as stiff as a coupe's but it's by no means terrible. Also the later cars apparently use thicker ally, so should be more rigid.

Brian Long's book, "NSX" is a useful font of this stuff!

If it's only occasional track days, a T would not be disgraced.

[gunner]

well I had been due to drive the NSX on Saturday morning but I got horribly caught in cup final traffic on the M4 and never made it.will have another go this week and report back.Thanks so much to everyone for their help.The enthusiasm NSX owners have for their cars is definitely infectious,I'm really looking forward to getting into one.

[gunner]

thought it was just worth coming back having finally driven the car in question.
well I loved it.The main things that appealed were impeccable build quality,terrific noise,I loved the compactness of the car and the terrific visibility (lovely,narrow,A pillars),that wonderfully precise gearchange,of course the engine and finally the fact that it's something different from all the German stuff out there.It certainly didn't lack for power,276bhp...you sure?I don't need to go into how well it handles.
As for the downside,well the interior has not aged well,it felt rather 80's in there (cassette player?),slightly light clutch which was also difficult to read the biting point on,and,er that's about it.
I'm gonna think for a couple of days,but it looks like the move into one of these is on.
I assume to change the hi fi is easy enough?any advice on that.Thanks in advance.

[Minch]

Go for it!!!!! I only got my one a couple months ago and love it. Its such a versatile performance car.

[ctrlaltdelboy]

I assume to change the hi fi is easy enough?any advice on that.Thanks in advance.
think again

you'll need a replacement centre console (or hack your existing one to fit a double-din unit)

and the oem system is a BOSE active speaker system, so every speaker has it's own amp.

it has been done though by several owners - there will be plenty of adive for you should you wish to change the ICE, both here and on Prime.

[gunner]

the guy I've been dealing with is away,back tomorrow so I'll ask him re hi fi etc.does anyone know whether satnav was ever an option on the NSX?

One other question.what about the NSX type R.I know it was never officially imported so was it just the one car that made it over here or are there a few.I understand Honda discourage imports of this car.seems such a pity...

[UltraViolet]

The original NSX-R is still highly valued in Japan. You can import one but budget for around £35k min.

Clutch - light :?: :!: :?: Maybe tis just the newer cars that get lighter clutchs to go with the lighter steering ... but I'd certainly not call my clutch light. :? (Oh - twas new under 5k miles ago too)

[ctrlaltdelboy]

Nav was an option on JDM cars, the factory nav pod fits in place of the little digi-clock part of the centre console and looks real cool as in my pic below:

http://www.darrenferneyhough.com/images/nsx/int1.jpg

you can get this part from SOS or Dali

[Nick Graves]

You are a sucker for aggro!

Yes, Sat Nav was available on JDM, so in theory you could get a dashboard from one of the millions of NSXs rusting on Japanese scrapheaps. Except it wouldn't work over here.

Get a TomTom instead!

[ChrisR]

millions of NSXs rusting on Japanese scrapheaps

Hope your being facetious.

Chris.

[ctrlaltdelboy]

obviously I'm not suggesting that someone install a JDM nav system in their UK car - I used the oem pod to house an Alpine screen connected to an Alpine Nav system all installed here in the UK - worked a treat.

has since been removed though, as mine is now a track car.

screen has been redeployed in the family car, but the nav is in it's box if anyone wants it cheap

[AR]

How cheap?

Cheers

AR

[ctrlaltdelboy]

hmmm...

£300 - Alpine DVD Nav system with remote control

[gunner]

sorry guys,can I ask one more question.I live in speed hump city and have struggled terribly with things like GT3's on account of their low ground clearance.How does the NSX hold up in the face of speed bumps in terms of both ground clearance and how well the suspension soaks them up?Any comments greatly appreciated.Thanks.

[TheQuietOne]

I have yet to hit one - and the splitter is fairly soft if you did. There are quite a few large ones near my house and as long as you take them gently I have not found one that hits any part of the underside of the car either.

As for the suspension it is not too bad - again as long as you taken them gently. As with the ride in general it is quite compliant providing you don't throw it at the bumps / pot holes etc with anger!

[simonprelude]

On the way into Brands Hatch the NSX was coping very well with terrain that the DC2's and DC5's were struggling on.

Clearence seems a lot better with the NSX, speed humps can be taken at ease with moderate speed.