Supercharger instal

[exiges1]

I'm seriously considering a SOS SC instal on my 1993 NA1 MT UK spec.

A few questions for those members who have SC already installed or have experience of them.

The SOS SC kit comes with a AEM F/I controller however they offer the full AEM EMS module. Question is, does the FIC allow the tuner to fine tune the engine or do I need the EMS to ensure the tuner gets the best performance from the instal?

Have you changed the exhaust manifolds to more free flowing aftermarket ones to maximise the SC instal? If so did your system have the O2 sensors locations drilled and tapped?

Would keeping my OEM manifolds restrict the SC performance?

Who did you use to tune the instal, or rather perhaps, who would you recommend?

Were there any problems with the instal or your kit, anything that might cause a problem not mentioned by our cousins over the pond?!

Any other guidance or info would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Tony.

[Hagasan]

Hi Tony,

I think from what I've read on Prime the FIC is better suited to full OBDII cars. You'd probably be better reading up on that said for more experienced input from owners.

With a 93 car I'd definitely replace the boat anchor original manifold with proper headers. Your car will only have pre-cat O2 sensors so you shouldn't need any additional drilling/tapping.

Why the SoS kit? The Comptech one would be a far simpler installation as you don't need to worry with any mapping/dyno work etc.

I'd suggest getting your fuel injectors checked/cleaned, replacing the fuel filter and making sure your fuel pump is in good health or replacing as a precaution.

I installed my own kit. It's not difficult to do, just be methodical and don't rush things. I'd allow two days to do it at a sensible pace.

I've been asked before by others and as I have experience in doing an installation I could do this work but due to the time involved I'd have to charge for it. Of course you may prefer the safety net of a garage and I quite understand that. Unfortunately for one SC user his garage weren't great! I'd only do the Comptech kit though since there is no mapping.

Anyway, hope this helps a bit?

Gary

[exiges1]

Thank you Gary, that's very helpful and the kind of insight I was hoping for.

Your point about my car being non OBD11 confirms what SOS have said. The FIC is a piggyback to the Honda ECU, the AEM S2 EMS replaces the Honda module and allows the tuner "full visibility" of everything relating to the ECU (according to SOS).

Using the AEM EMS will require fitting wide band O2 sensors which may add to the cost? as does buying the EMS rather that the FIC. As will replacing the headers of course, which makes complete sense. I think the import duties +VAT are going to hurt!!

I note your our points about the fuel filter etc, the SOS kit comes with new injectors.

i think I'll call some of the approved? AEM dyno places in the UK on Monday to see what experience they have with the AEM S2 EMS. If anyone has good experiences with a particular dyno tuner place/ person could they let me know please.

As for the dissatisfied SC user could you let me know if it's someone geographically near me by PM please.

Many thanks.

[goldnsx]

A wide band O2 sensors is needed anyway if done right. You will want observe AFR permanty or from time to time.

I agree with Hagasan: why not CTSC? The stock engine is said to be safe below 400 hp, above that I've heard problems here and there with a stock engine doing over that mark in the long run. Unless you open the engine and reinforce it...££££

[Silver Surfer]

I believe the SOS AEM FIC kit is also a plug and play but the SC has more power as it has larger capacity and to get the most from it the AEM stand-alone mappable ECU allows full control and therefore needs a good tuner. I have discussed this with a tuning company off the A127 towards Southend who I am considering to let them look at mine regarding the AEM stand-alone series II ECU in my car...as mine is running rich to reduce top-end detonation risk.
The other car has the AEM piggy-back ECU....plug and play and not really tunable.

SS

[Hagasan]

Thank you Gary, that's very helpful and the kind of insight I was hoping for.

Your point about my car being non OBD11 confirms what SOS have said. The FIC is a piggyback to the Honda ECU, the AEM S2 EMS replaces the Honda module and allows the tuner "full visibility" of everything relating to the ECU (according to SOS).

Using the AEM EMS will require fitting wide band O2 sensors which may add to the cost? as does buying the EMS rather that the FIC. As will replacing the headers of course, which makes complete sense. I think the import duties +VAT are going to hurt!!

I note your our points about the fuel filter etc, the SOS kit comes with new injectors.

i think I'll call some of the approved? AEM dyno places in the UK on Monday to see what experience they have with the AEM S2 EMS. If anyone has good experiences with a particular dyno tuner place/ person could they let me know please.

As for the dissatisfied SC user could you let me know if it's someone geographically near me by PM please.

Many thanks.

Hi Tony, the reason the SoS kit has new injectors is because it's mean't to produce more power than the CTSC kit thus more fuel.

One of the reasons I bought the CTSC is because it's emissions compliant in all 50 states, including California which is the strictest state in the US. My theory was that if the kit was sold through Acura dealers without affecting the warranty and it could pass the emissions then it should be ok for the UK.

Finding a tuner is only the start. It will take a long time to correctly map the car for smooth running. During this time you are trusting the tuner not to damage what is a very expensive engine while experimenting with one they won't be familiar with. Is it worth all the risk? It might not be a big concern but you may loose your traction control with the AEMS?

I took my car to the rolling road after fitting to adjust fuel pressures and thus fueling to make sure the AFR's were safe. I don't appear to have any super rich running with mine. It passed the MOT ok but I needed to make sure the engine was hot as I'm also running sports CAT's. Initially it failed but this is because the garage let the car sit too long and tried to test it with a cold engine! Once warmed up again it passed no problem.

It seems to me that there are no advantages to the SoS kit over here in the UK at least. The CTSC is a proven kit and much quicker/straightforward to implement and enjoy. Probably cheaper too?

The other user I refer to had problems caused by the garage I believe, not the SC itself.

If you do decide to go CTSC contact me first. I have quite a good "relationship" with them and as another forum user was thinking about one I might be able to negotiate a discount for you?
I was succesful in getting a significant discount for the last Downforce groupbuy so never say never :)

[exiges1]

Hi SS,

SOS recommend (for my application) using the AEM EMS because,

"FIC is a piggyback where the EMS is a replacement for the factory ECU. I prefer the EMS unit for your year because tuners find it easier to tune. Because your car does not have OBD2, the short and long term trims cannot be monitored. Thus, it may take a trip or two to the dyno facility to get the drivability just right. Tuners find the "full control" of the EMS much easier to work with, because you have visibility of everything related to the ECU. The downside is the cost. It is more expensive, and requires you to install wideband oxygen sensors. Both solutions come with a tune specific to your car year and the supercharger - so their work is 99% complete - but in our experience, anyone can tune the EMS, but a patient tuner is required who understands how the piggy back works to make the drivability good."
I agree with you. Reading between the lines it seems that finding an experienced tuner for the AEM EMS is the key, I guess patience also means time which means £££'s!

From the AEM dealer link SOS sent me I called the tuner based in Silverstone who have an experienced, trained AEM tuner. Besides warning me about buying US parts that don't fit or work on Euro cars they said that if the ECS had a 99% complete map already installed they would need 1/2 day to fine tune the car @ £450+ vat. Anywhere near what AT quoted you?


http://www.aemelectronics.com/find-a-dealer

[exiges1]

Hi Tony, the reason the SoS kit has new injectors is because it's mean't to produce more power than the CTSC kit thus more fuel.

Hi Gary, I asked about this and SOS say the CTSC produces 80-90 additional HP and their kit 130-140 more. They also said the CTSC runs very rich and is non adjustable (I assume that means the piggyback ECU as you've adjusted yours). Their FIC, which comes with 99% of the mapping completed, still requires fine tuning apparently.

Finding a tuner is only the start. It will take a long time to correctly map the car for smooth running. During this time you are trusting the tuner not to damage what is a very expensive engine while experimenting with one they won't be familiar with. Is it worth all the risk? It might not be a big concern but you may loose your traction control with the AEMS?

Not too concerned with losing the TC, I have to turn it off if I fit my non OEM wheels anyway. Yes the tuner is the key really, however with 99% of the mapping completed I would expect the risks to be much less than if they were starting from squat! ( not sure where my optimism comes from!).


It seems to me that there are no advantages to the SoS kit over here in the UK at least. The CTSC is a proven kit and much quicker/straightforward to implement and enjoy. Probably cheaper too?

I think if the potential of instal can be maximised the advantage will be in its performance particularly if I upgrade my manifolds to headers. As to cost well I'm buying a discounted kit they had prepared for a customer who pulled out at the last minute that puts it below (to be clear that's without upgrading the ECS etc) the published CTSC price.

If you do decide to go CTSC contact me first. I have quite a good "relationship" with them and as another forum user was thinking about one I might be able to negotiate a discount for you?
I was succesful in getting a significant discount for the last Downforce groupbuy so never say never :)

Thank you for the offer, I haven't paid up yet so I may be in touch!

[Hagasan]

I think with a standard engine internally you don't want to be pushing things too far. It seems to be that 400bhp is considered a sensible limit. Mine gave 387 bhp on the dyno. I'm assuming you meant the SoS kit is 130-140 over standard, not the CTSC kit? You might need to consider clutch upgrades, brakes and suspension if you got too high.. It's a slippery slope and given most UK roads, the reasonable CTSC power increase was adequate for me. Remember US fuel is lower octane than the UK. I'm not sure how well matched any maps work for the UK? I don't know enough about that side of things...

[exiges1]

Thanks Gary, yes SOS suggest theirs is the more powerful instal, to be expected I suppose!

I'll check with SOS with regards the octane issue, was this a problem for you? I take it the CTSC map is based on U.S. usage? In Europe do they supply a different map? Lots to consider....need to decide.....

[Hagasan]

Like I said Tony, I don't really know the implications of US maps based on their fuel and their adaptability to the UK or Europe. The CTSC uses some sort of piggyback device that retards the timing if there is too much heatsoak or the chance of pre-detonation. The kit uses a rising rate fuel pressure regulator so based on the vacuum on the induction side this will affect the pressure regulator and upping thefuel pressure and thus quantity needed under boost... or something like that lol...... I can't quite remember it all off the top of my head so don't hold me to the way it operates....

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to dissuade you from the SoS kit.. I just think the CTSC is probably less of a headache over here due to the lack of familiarity with modifying the NSX in this way....

[goldnsx]

Due to better fuel in Europe the CTSC kit with the fixed piggyback is even safer than in the US. It would be a problem if it was the other way around. With the SoS kit it's a very different story...

[darock]

The quality of european fuel is better most of the time but the octane numbers aren't higher. US just use a different method to calculate the octane number. Their 93 RON fuel is the same octane rating as our 98 ROZ.

Bernhard

[exiges1]

Due to better fuel in Europe the CTSC kit with the fixed piggyback is even safer than in the US. It would be a problem if it was the other way around. With the SoS kit it's a very different story...


Thanks but the ..... bit at the end of your post doesn't help me much (other than creating doubt). Can you expand on why you think the piggyback SOS kit is a 'different story' to the CTSC piggyback kit (in a UK application in my car).

[goldnsx]

On the SoS website it states that they deliver a pre-tuned calibration that has to be fine-tuned. AEM optional for 91-94.
The CTSC piggyback doesn't have to be fine-tuned, you just check AFR. The rest is a simple installation.
So piggyback isn't piggyback.
The SoS system is good I believe but I had several arguments agaist it. Finding a serious tuner was one of the main reasons. On the other hand I've heard some (more than a handfull over the years) blow-ups in high-boost version on a stock engine. These stories don't get widespread on the forums, you know...and the last thing I wanted was a blown engine. Above 400 hp I'd consider a different sports car or even NSX 2.0 but I'm more than happy with my 360 hp CTSC.
Why did the Laminova intercooler disappeared quite quickly from the market?

[exiges1]

Thanks for clarifying that point. Yes, the AEM tuning issue, that is finding a competent person crops up on other forums.

I assume that the difference in BHP between your car and Gary's car is due to the type of rolling road used, type of headers fitted and other factors rather than you using different CTSC kits?

I can imagine the performance gains (+90 - +110 bhp) are indeed 'satisfying'!

[goldnsx]

I don't know Hagasan's CTSC version but believe is v3.0 or the latest. Mine is 3.0 from 2011, the first year the CTSC became available after the Autorotor desaster (2009, no compressors available due to failures). Don't believe different numbers too much. I was on a calibrated dyno which is used by the Police to detect not legal hp cars. So it was very, very conservative. I have 97+ headers and stock exhaust. My friend with headers and stock exhaust had the same power. On the street mine was even a little bit faster than his with a free flowing exhaus due to slightly different wheel sizes. So I believe most CTSC are pretty much the same but Hagasan is too far away to benchmark. :)
Sidenote: you can notice a much greater difference of power on hot/cold days. Now in autumn with temps going below 15 deg. C you feel 20-30 hp more than a very hot summerday.

Your tuner has to be some kind of scientific to tune it under different scenarios (hot/cold, high/low air density and so on). I don't believe they can do it in half a day but that's just my opinon. My other opinion is that it's better to do it yourself because there are too many people... That way you have full control. That's why I did the CTSC myself. Good luck!

[exiges1]

Thanks guys for your input. I've decided not to go ahead with the SOS kit at the moment, I need to do more research about AEM tuners and also the CTSC kit.

[modarr]

Thanks guys for your input. I've decided not to go ahead with the SOS kit at the moment, I need to do more research about AEM tuners and also the CTSC kit.

Hi Folks,
Just my 2 pence worth. I may be the 'guy who had problems' or that may be someone else too. I had my car supercharged before SoS had their own kit so believe it was a Comptech kit. The engine rings let go on my first track outing, actually on the first lap. That's what I was told anyway. So I ended up having a rebuild and going for the full works, intercooler, AEM etc. The garage I used was a bad choice in terms of engine rebuild. Tuning the AEM is a problem, finding someone who is confident in tuning an NSX even harder. The guy I ended up using works free lance but can often be found at Eurospec in Guildford. He is called Roman I think and he works for WRC teams and the like. Finding someone competent and crucially, willing to rebuild an NSX engine is very difficult indeed.
If you supercharge the car but don't track it then you probably don't need big brakes and the like. If however you want to seriously push the car then as someone already said its a slippery slope down brake/wheel/tyre upgrade alley.

Quick hi to the old crew who may remember me from the early days, still have the car, still trying to get it sorted so I can use it more, now 4 kids and moved to near Horsham. May actually turn up to a meeting one day if I ever get time.

[Silver Surfer]

Hi Mo,

Good to see you are still around.
I echo your comments...hope you get your car sorted too.
Not sure if it was engine rings or due to poor coolant bleeding/de-airing skills which causes overheating from air lock!!...in fact there was no problem with the SC install!

SS

[NSXGB]

Hi Mo, hope you are well.
Horsham only down the road, our southern mini meets are usually not far from you.
A friend of mine has used Roman for tuning and says that he is a legend.

[goldnsx]

... so believe it was a Comptech kit.
Sorry to read your misfortune. Do you recall if it was hi-boost (smaller pulley/AEM)?
The one with broken rings can be read on the German forum, he was hi-boost on a 3.0 stock engine.

[ianhb]

I used Eurospec 2000 in Guildford for some years for my Galant VR4 ,2.5litre twin turbo 320bhp, no complaints, excellent service, very knowledgeable. Ben and Romain were both excellent tuners. Can thoroughly recommend them from my experiences with them.

[AR]

Not real issues with a RRFPR regulator install, even possible to do it yourself as I did when I had my NSX, which Silver Surfer now owns. It never blew up when I had it and scared a exotics, specially when I was running a single exit decated custom exhaust!

I suggest a quality wideband, fuel gauge in engine bay and plenty of cold beers.

[exiges1]

Thanks. Two recommendations for the tuner in Guildford, I'm pretty sure that I've read about a tuner called Roman/Romain on another forum possibly a Supra one - I shall have to revisit it.

I'm now looking at whether it's a cheaper option buying the CTSC kit from a euro supplier and whether a small group buy would make it even cheaper.

AR sorry I have no idea what 'RRFPR regulator' is!

[NSXGB]

Rising Rate Fuel Pressure Regulator


Thanks. Two recommendations for the tuner in Guildford, I'm pretty sure that I've read about a tuner called Roman/Romain on another forum possibly a Supra one - I shall have to revisit it.

I'm now looking at whether it's a cheaper option buying the CTSC kit from a euro supplier and whether a small group buy would make it even cheaper.

AR sorry I have no idea what 'RRFPR regulator' is!

[Hagasan]

Rising Rate Fuel Pressure Regulator

It's on the CTSC. When the supercharger produces boost the RRFPR increases the fuel pressure as the engine now needs more fuel..

[exiges1]

Understood, thanks.

[modarr]

Sorry to read your misfortune. Do you recall if it was hi-boost (smaller pulley/AEM)?
The one with broken rings can be read on the German forum, he was hi-boost on a 3.0 stock engine.

Hi everbody, I hope to get my car back soon and meet up with some fellow owners.
My engine rings let go on the stock pulley without AEM tuning. After that I went for the high boost, lowerer compression set up with a Laminova intercooler, AEM, wide band sensors, uprated everything pretty much or so I was led to believe. I am not sure how much faith I have in the garage owner having done what I paid for.
Anyway the stalling issues which plagued the car and stopped me using it anywhere other than on track were tracked down to the impedance of the new injectors and removal of some type of resistance setting.
The oil consumption and dirty running I can live with.

[goldnsx]

My engine rings let go on the stock pulley without AEM tuning.
Sorry to hear your double-trouble. Do you mean you were low-boost CTSC with everything from CT or did you already have the AEM by then?
Good luck!

[modarr]

I didn't have the AEM until after the engine let go.
Thanks for the goodwill, hope to be out and around in soon.