How to crank the engine after long storage.

[The King]

[Edit by Kaz-kzukNA1:]
Considering the nature of the original thread posted in the General NSX Discussion, I have moved some of the post under this new thread in Technical forum.

The original thread here;
http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.php?13290-NSX-Value-plummets

Extract of my original post that introduced technical questions that you will find under this post.

.........I would be more worried about low annual mileage engine and would be seriously worried reading the comment such as ‘the car started at the first cranking after being kept under the cover for months’.
I won’t even use the starter to crank the engine after parked even for a few weeks...............

[End of comment by Kaz-kzukNA1]


Unfortunately my fun cars often sit a couple of weeks or more between drives. Until I retire and possibly able to spend a few months away from our glorious winter climate, this is unlikely to change. I would like it if Kaz would share what procedure he goes through when starting a car that's been idle for awhile, as opposed to using the starter.

[Taxi5]

Yes any tips on what to do if left standing for a few months wold be great. I'm on a 4k limit insurance and i do that just in the summer months. So mines going away tomorrow till December.

[NSXGB]

Turn the car over by hand first (crank pulley bolt) then very short bursts on the starter with the injectors disabled. This should splash enough oil around to be able to fire up suitably lubed.

[drmikey]

The best thing to do is to remove all the spark plugs (and unplug injectors & coilpacks) and then turn it over as normal (with the starter motor) until the oil light goes out. Basically you are turning the engine over with no compression so minimum pressure on the internal components.

As an extra safety measure you can put a couple of drops of oil in the top of each cylinder.

[Burny]

Turn the car over by hand first (crank pulley bolt) then very short bursts on the starter with the injectors disabled. This should splash enough oil around to be able to fire up suitably lubed.

What is the easiest way to disable the injectors, unplug them?

[Senninha]

Nice looking CRX Burny ...

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Xtv_tMyipps/Vfnr635W_LI/AAAAAAAAbm0/DrKMqhTErbo/s800-Ic42/201509_012.jpg




What is the easiest way to disable the injectors, unplug them?
Leave the INJ connectors.

Just disconnect the INJ resistor connector or the INJ busbar connector depending on the spec of your INJ.
Both type looks the same and they are 8pin/way connector located at the same position marked by yellow arrow in the above photo.

By disconnecting this, it will disable all six INJ.


Kaz

[Tegiwa Imports]

Kaz, that's all you'd do? Disconnect this plug and turn it over a few times?

Thanks

[Burny]

Thank you Kaz, that is very easy indeed.
So just to be clear, when a car has not been used for 1-2 months, one could simply disable the injectors and give a couple of short bursts on the starter to splash oil around.
Then enable the injectors and simply start.
And when a car has not been used for 5-6 months (like mine probably) one could disable the injectors, remove the sparkplugs, turn the crankshaftpulley a couple of times over with a wrench followed by short bursts on the starter.
Then install the sparkplugs / enable the injectors and start?

@ Senninha : Thank you. It's my very first car, bought it 15 years ago. This car set me (and my family lol) on the Honda path, ultimately leading me to my NSX purchase last year.
Both the CRX and NSX are '91 cars and sit next to one another in the garage like cousins :)

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

The best thing to do is to remove all the spark plugs (and unplug injectors & coilpacks) and then turn it over as normal (with the starter motor) until the oil light goes out. Basically you are turning the engine over with no compression so minimum pressure on the internal components.

As an extra safety measure you can put a couple of drops of oil in the top of each cylinder.
As you would expect from someone with the racing team background ;)
Pretty much the same procedure as mine.


Have been so busy over the last several weeks including this one so just managed to catch up with this thread.


During my Eng Refresh, the IG coil and spark plug are already removed well before taking the Eng out and the INJ is disabled by disconnecting the Eng Loom so not exactly the same but the notion of the procedure is the same.

Please note that this is just what I have been doing for any cars and not something that one should do as it may not be suitable for your environment so please take that into consideration.
For example, if you live in sub-zero environment, you should consider installing a device warming up the eng oil (and MTF) before cranking the engine.

You could get away without removing the spark plugs as long as you are 100% sure that there is no concern of damaging the crank main/rod metals due to the moisture condensation or lack of oil film although the metal section will hold the oil fairly well.
If you are confident with above, just disable the IG by disconnecting the ignitor module or the busbar connector on top of the Gbox below the thermostat.
If in doubt, you should remove the spark plugs in order to eliminate the stress point at the crank main/rod metal.

You can disable the INJ using the method in my post above with the photo.


So, the procedure is like this;

1. Remove spark plug and disable the INJ.

2. Hand crank the engine using the cranky pulley bolt in clockwise direction ONLY, when looking into the crank pulley.
Never rotate it in counter clockwise or you could jump the cam pulley tooth if the TB tension was not set properly (and very likely that your TB is already loose..... ).
This is to spread the remaining oil film around the metal surface in a hope to eliminate any build up of condensation as well as minimise the damage to the metal surface if the corrosion has already started.
Hand crank it like 10 times

3. Be careful with the spinning ACG pulley and belt.
Then, short burst of quick starter cranking (like 1 - 2sec) a few times to prime the oil pump.
This is not enough to build up the oil pressure to splash it around the cam shaft area but more to prime the pump itself.

4. Followed by the long starter cranking (like 10sec) multiple times.
During the 1st long cranking period and by the time piston went through the two cycles (within 1 - 2sec after start cranking), you should see the red oil pressure warning light disappear.
If not, you may have problem….

5. Quickly check around the engine, put everything back in place and fireup the engine with the IG and INJ enabled.

6. If you can, take compression to check the state of the valve seat as it could be corroded after long storage.


By the way, there is no need to keep running the engine like 15 – 20min without moving in order to bring the temperature to the operational level every time when you take your NSX out.
I know some of the owners are doing this but you are simply circulating the heavily contaminated blowby gas with lots of moisture and unburnt fuel back into the engine if you keep running at idle rpm.

Unless you are going to drive immediately on the dual carriage way or unless in winter, just run the engine for 1 - 2 minutes and start moving slowly, keep shifting earlier and try to keep below 3,000rpm until the engine fully warms up.

During normal UK winter period and if you keep your NSX inside the garage, you will probably need about 5min of engine warm up before you can start driving slowly like mentioned above.
If you set your CCU at about 25degC with AUTO mode in winter and once your blower starts blowing the air, that’s well enough ready to start driving your NSX slowly.


Just don’t keep running the engine at idle rpm for ages from cold until it fully warms up.


Kaz

[TheSebringOne]

I would like to add, is consideration of the fuel. If the car been in storage a long time, you need to think about removal
of the old petrol and put fresh supply in.

[Burny]

Kaz, thanks alot for your insights.
At least now I know what to do, this coming March :)

@ TheSebringOne: what about fuel stabiliser?

[TheSebringOne]

I have never tried them, has any one had first hand experience?

I remember when they stop doing 4 star & I had to add Redex to unleaded fuel in the X1/9 but that was to add lead rather than stablise.

[Burny]

2 more considerations I had:

Every week I turn the crankshaft between 1 and 2 turns. It's a tip I picked up on Prime, to make sure the TB isn't always stressed in the same place/manner.
This also makes sure the crankshaft is oiled up, right?
So maybe in doing this, one could get away without removing the sparkplugs in the above procedure?

Also, if you haven't driven or started your NSX for 5 months, would it be a good idea to go easy on the engine the first +/- 500 km?
Breaking in the engine all over again. Or could you just warm it up driving slowly and then gun away like always?

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Hi, Burny.
As I got similar question, decided to write about this in bit more detail.

First of all, the effect of TB tension on TB itself by keeping the engine without running for months is almost nothing as long as the tension was set properly at the time of last TB service.
The OEM TB may stretch for tiny amount over 10 – 15 years but the effect on the valve timing is much smaller with VTEC engine if the initial setup with fresh TB was done properly.
Unlike ordinary engine, the inlet valve won’t start opening until the exh valve fully closed below the VTEC region.
So, hand cranking the engine every week may have some effect on the oil film but not much benefit on the TB although probably no negative effect either.
It's more for the LMA as it will prevent spring fatigue on the old style LMA.

Crank shaft or any areas won’t be oiled up as there is just not enough oil pressure. You are just relying on the remaining oil film left on the metal surface and you have gravity.

Still, I would remove all of the spark plugs before cranking the engine using the starter if you only hand cranked the engine while parking the car for months.

Unless the engine parts were replaced, there is not much point in breaking in the engine all over again.
It’s more to do with other areas such as the tyre, rubber parts, switches, etc and your body/mind itself that may require getting used to or some persuasion for the initial driving session if not driven the very car for months.

By the way, it all depends on the metal clearance and surface treatment spec on the drawings but with the modern engine machining, some of the engines can only breaking in at the very first fire up so ‘gentle on the first several hundreds miles’ are not necessarily suitable for some of the modern cars.


If you parked your NSX for months, you may have lost some of the eng oil film from internal eng metal surface or you may already have allowed condensation to build up at the surface of internal eng parts.
This all depends on many factors and how the car was parked including but not limited to the eng oil used, climate controlled garage, humidity, temperature, oxygen level, floor angulation, etc, etc.

Long time ago, I had a chance to inspect NSX engines taken out from the chassis and stored for 1 year at specific conditions and with these engines, reasonable amount of eng oil film were still there even on the vertical metal surface so there is no such thing as golden rule as so many factors will change the situation.
So, followings are just a guidance to minimise the risk of scratching the metal surface while cranking the engine after parking the car for months.

As I drive my NSX almost every day, it is very unlikely to happen but if this was the case with my NSX, I will do the following things.

I’m assuming that your cooling system including the coolant is fine.
Otherwise, please replace all coolant hoses, coolant, etc before even cranking the engine. You don’t want to circulate all these rusty debris inside the cooling system as it is very likely to be trapped at the eng block and you can’t drain the whole coolant especially at the Front block without disassembling the engine.

Unless you rotate the wheel, gbox oil pump won’t be activated on MT model so you can change MTF before/after the following process.
For AT model, you may want to change ATF before carrying out the following process (cranking the eng) if it is dark red colour.

Please replace brake fluid, flash ABS (if classic ABS) by activating 4 x solenoids manually, replace CL reservoir fluid (MT) any time before driving the car as 2 years is enough to let moisture absorbed into the fluid.


Drain the old fuel from the Fuel tank and add some fresh fuel.
Without starting the engine, turn IG key into P2 (On position, lots of lights on the dash), wait for about 2sec letting the fuel pump to run and then back to P1 (ACC) position. Repeat this like 10 times to push out old fuel in the fuel filter and fuel rail back to the tank.

Remove all 6 x IG coils and 6 x spark plugs.
Place both F & R IG coil covers back on the valve covers to prevent anything dropping inside the engine. Please note that you will be cranking the engine later so you need to keep the plug hole opened.

Disable the INJ by either disconnecting the INJ resistor block or busbar connector depending on the year model.

Remove Rear Right wheel and hand crank the engine very slowly in clockwise direction using 19mm socket at the crank pulley bolt. 10 turns are enough as this process is just hoping to spread the (not so ideal) old eng oil film in order to minimise the scratch markings due to lack of oil film or build up of moisture at the cam journal, crank metal and rod metal area.

Change Eng Oil and Oil filter without warming up the engine.
If you need to move the car from the storage area, try pushing it instead of cranking the engine.
Try to pump out as much old oil as possible from the oil level gauge pipe using the suction pump.
If you are going to work on the car in the cold garage, try to warm up the fresh eng oil to at least room temperature and pour some of it into the new oil filter before installing it on the engine.
Pour remaining oil into the engine.

Try to warm up the oil pan if you are working in the cold weather.
This is to soften the eng oil so that it can build up the oil pressure faster at next process.

Bump the starter in multiple short bursts several times to prime the oil pump by sucking the soften eng oil through the suction port.
Followed by 10sec cranking while keeping eye on the Red low oil pressure warning indicator.
The red light should disappear very quickly (like within 1 - 2sec) if you have managed to build up enough oil pressure.
Remember, with all spark plugs removed, engine will crank really fast (even with 1 cyl closed for the compression check, the cranking speed is about 200rpm with hot engine oil at WOT so with all spark plug removed, it will crank much faster).
This is where the softened eng oil and removal of all spark plugs become very important as you want to build up oil pressure as quickly as possible to splash eng oil everywhere and also you want to reduce friction and minimise compression/stress at the crank/rod metal while cranking the engine.

Repeat another 10sec cranking while monitoring the Red low oil pressure warning light.
Red light should disappear very quickly.

Put everything back in their original places for the fireup preparation.

Try to warm up the oil pan again if you are working in the cold environment.

Start the engine.
Keep eye on the oil pressure gauge and don’t blip the TH pedal.

No need to warm up the engine to the operating temperature so just stop the engine.

Carry out the usual checkup before going out for driving and try driving the car regularly for a while and after running the fresh fuel from full tank, you may want to send all of your INJ for cleaning service to remove any contamination from the old fuel.
If it takes ages to warm up the engine, your thermostat may have seized in open position so time to service the cooling system.

As a precaution, you may want to change eng oil at much earlier stage for the first oil change after taking the car out from the storage in case your fresh oil from the above process got more blowby gas circulated but don’t change engine oil like after 1day usage.

I’m not well at the moment so may have missed something or mistyped and may edit above later.


Kaz

[Burny]

Thanks for all this usefull info Kaz. I will store it in my personal Wiki :)
Get well soon.

[Pride]

Hi Kaz, I've never been nervous about starting my car after a few weeks parked in the garage, but I will be now. :rolleyes:

[matpp]

Hi Kaz, I've never been nervous about starting my car after a few weeks parked in the garage, but I will be now. :rolleyes:

Neither was I until recently. I spent ages browsing this site and prime trying to find out how to disable the injection system.....I eventually found that if you pull No. 2 fuse in the passenger foot well this will also disable the injectors. I wish I'd seen this post first as it would have saved me loads of time searching.....also disconnecting the connector is quicker than pulling the fuse.....as usual, thanks Kaz!

[Mistercorn]

I turned the ecu off with the tracker, crank for a few seconds, stop, crank for 10 seconds, stop, repeat until the oil light goes out, then switch back on and start up. That is after not running for a couple of months.

MC