NSX vs Cayman GT4 and F355 Autocar 21 October 2015 - Matt Saunders

[Shawnsx5]

This is the best tribute to the NSX I have ever read from a UK journalist - but I am happy to be proved wrong of course.

The article focusses on whether the GT4 has the hallmark of an all time great and uses the NSX (Honda UK's 2005 IOP car MY05 NSX) and a F355 as the benchmarks.

The author Matt Saunders rates the NSX number 1 - no surprise to most of us - but it probably will be to most of the Autocar readership. To be fair he rates the GT4 very highly in 2nd place but concludes it is the NSX not the GT4 that:

"....shone the brightest....made the greatest impression."

Some other quotes from the article about our NSX:

1. ...simply one of the best handling road cars you're ever likely to experience...

2. ... the gear change an utter joy.

3. I'll be amazed if there has ever been a more stable, secure, accurate handling and communicative mid engined sports cars than this.

4. Visibility simply phenomenal.

5. A car of such singular vision and execution it's place in our folklore can never have been in doubt.

6. It's how preposterously easy the car makes the business of driving at high speed, on the road, it's gift to us.

7. ..steering becomes ideally geared to work fast at cross country pace, and its perfect weight and wonderfully detailed feedback

8. It's configured to be fast, to inspire the utmost confidence....

9 ....awe-inspiringly capable and forgiving.

10. ...you can understand why we raved about it - especially if the next thing you drive is a car....like the F355.

11. Of the GT4.... it's gear change and accelerator aren't as tactile as the Honda....Rare quality indeed.

12. ...a car I could own and drive forever...

13. The stuff of landmarks? Of Legend? I'd Say so.

The one thing he gets wrong is suggesting you would pay £60k for a similar 2005 NA2 25,000 mile NSX. Anyone with a 2005 car willing to part with it for £60k should contact me please.

Three cheers for Matt Saunders and Autocar.

[marknsx]

Had my 1991 NSX 3 weeks and done 700 miles in clear dry conditions until today, drove in the wet and have loved each and every mile.
All those highlighted quotes of yours sum up my emotions.( except the GT4 - never driven one)

[marknsx]

had a look at the article on M3 Forum.net. I find that the Americans prefer a bigger BHP. I like the subtlety of the NSX performance. I want sure handling against raw power.

[AR]

I find that a few writers have the Honda fanboy disease that precludes them from an objective point of view.

[AR]

IMHO here is where the ( stock ) NSX is nowadays, love it as the "best" cars of the day but don,t sell nostalgia as performance!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IrJH6gz0ug

[Nick Graves]

For convenience:

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=536213

I've long maintained the Coxster is a poor man's NSX!

Interesting read. I wonder how the Evora 400 would fare?

[goldtop]

IMHO here is where the ( stock ) NSX is nowadays, love it as the "best" cars of the day but don,t sell nostalgia as performance!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IrJH6gz0ug

What's that got to do with anything? First, that's an older, less powerful Ferrari, one that will have lost a lot of its horses (cf Honda's C30/C32). Next, that's a simple 1/4mile boot-it test, which has got the square-root of FA to do with the way the Ferrari (or the Camry, or the NSX, or the GT4) goes round corners.

Why would you discount the NSX chassis? Gordon Murray (among many who know their stuff) know that the NSX chassis is sublime. The NSX in that 3-way test was the least powerful, least torquey, slowest, heaviest and yet ... somehow ... the most exploitable car. Something else (other than the stupid 1/4mile-type test that you posted) explains that. Now go away and think about it.

[AR]

What's that got to do with anything? First, that's an older, less powerful Ferrari, one that will have lost a lot of its horses (cf Honda's C30/C32). Next, that's a simple 1/4mile boot-it test, which has got the square-root of FA to do with the way the Ferrari (or the Camry, or the NSX, or the GT4) goes round corners.

Why would you discount the NSX chassis? Gordon Murray (among many who know their stuff) know that the NSX chassis is sublime. The NSX in that 3-way test was the least powerful, least torquey, slowest, heaviest and yet ... somehow ... the most exploitable car. Something else (other than the stupid 1/4mile-type test that you posted) explains that. Now go away and think about it.

Miaow!

C'mon man all I am saying is that some of you guys are not content with the NSX as a Classic Car, but want to chase any article in which it may fair better than the current crop of sports cars and exploit it in a selective exposure way.

The NSX, was at the time of it's introduction a ground breaking vehicle, no discussion about that! But many cars will trounce it in a objective test. Don't bring emotions and feelings into it or we will be driving old rust buckets that evoke memories of times gone by!

[AR]

Now go away and think about it.

Rudeness for the sake of it :rolleyes:

[Ewan]

The one thing he gets wrong is ...

Well, not quite - he does say that the NSX in question - the Imola MY05NSX - "... may be the best-kept example in the UK."

Wasn't that practically written off by a journo a couple of years ago, necessitating NSX2000's car to be brought into service on the stand at Goodwood FoS?

Anyway. I was surprised at the warmth of Matt Saunders' reaction to the NSX - certainly surprising when compared to the GT4, from Porsche Who Can Do No Wrong...

[Shawnsx5]

AR you are entitled to your opinion of course, as is Matt Saunders. But I am left wondering what your motives are other than to judge and perhaps insult fellow forum members.

My purpose was not one of exploitation but simply to draw attention to an unusual article and pull out some of the positive comments about the NSX for an audience of fellow enthusiasts. If you want to judge and insult me please do so via a PM in future.

Of course there are many criteria where many cars will beat an NSX - including my own Skoda Superb that using the objective tests of space and full economy beats an NSX, all Porsche and Ferrari by a considerable margin.

I am sad it seems you ignore nostalgia and emotion when judging the relative merits of cars as I think you are missing a lot in doing so.

If you feel the need to respond again I hope you can do so in a more constructive manner, if not hold that thought, you are entitled to it, but it is not compulsory to put in writing.

[marknsx]

We are a passionate bunch. United by the NSX. I don't care what past or present car alternatives can or can't do. I have found happiness. Just remember to drive whatever you own. If you feel the need to lock it away then sell it to someone who will drive it.

[Rob_Fenn]

It's great to read a modern comparison. You cannot stop progress, but it is good to see that the qualities of the NSX still clearly shine through.

The car world is driven by an improvement in numbers, so inevitably - no matter how objectively good it is - you will lose elements that 'feel' better because they do not perform better. Today, the NSX's approachability wouldn't cut the mustard as it just wouldn't be fast enough around a circuit.

I think where people (i.e. 'fan boys') can get carried away is thinking their car is an equal match, even if it's a ropey 15 year old car with 100,000 miles. I have driven many a rough NSX because owners haven't spent enough money maintaining important suspension components or have the wrong tyres. With the car now bordering on being an investment, i hope owners are giving their NSX's the attention they deserve!

[marknsx]

Well said. Is this the only supercar to be worth more in bits than whole?

[AR]

Shawn,

The purpose of my posts was not to insult anyone, just to bring a perspective from someone who has driven and owned quite a few NSX and other more modern, and older cars.

Nostalgia, well I had a 1983 RX7 with a 12A engine and carbs, it was a great car and "felt" so fast, yet our roundaround fiat 500 diesel ran rings around it.

What I am saying is that owners need to be objective and accept the NSX for what it is, which is, a Classic Junior Supercar.

Before anyone feels ready to curtail my freedom of expression ( how very dare you ) just understand that we all have different frames of references! An acquaintance had a Dino 246 and I thought it was great, till I drove it!

Have your Nostalgia, but don't let it cloud your mind.

I am not an "enemy" of NSX owners, I have probably helped more than 20 people buy their NSX over the few years I was active, even accompany and test drove cars for them FOC, not even a beer thrown in and in many cases not even a thank you.

I designed, tested and made an exhaust for the NSX that met the requirements of most owners, only to be attacked by some who wanted spaghetti exhausts. One minute owners want performance and tell me the NSX can walk a away from X,Y or Z car, the next minute they say power is not important just the feel.

When I had my 3rd NSX and decided to supercharge it, nodody was touching them, except a company that wanted 5k to look at it and another one that installed two one of which ran like crap according to many and the other that blew itself up. Then people said the NSX is not about power.

Everyone knows that the NSX has a SUPERB chassis, but it needs better brakes and more power amongst other things to be able to keep up with modern stuff, no jokes about remapped 335D BMWs lol.

So there you are, my opinion, and no mention about price fixing, insider trading or the anorak cartel.

[goldnsx]

What I am saying is that owners need to be objective and accept the NSX for what it is, which is, a Classic Junior Supercar.
I'm not with you on the term 'objective'. Owners don't have to be objective nor do they have to be wearing pink glasses.

Nice to read the article, a little bit too much superlatives but they all write them that way. The article is in contrast to the stepmotherly articles way back when it was for sale in Europe.

If you like the sweet smell of the background of the time around the 90ies you don't have to compare it to each of today's cars. I know some Honda owners are not interested in the new cars for several reasons. I for myself am not even interested in the new NSX as I try to avoid being held hostage by the new technology and retire from DIY.

[marknsx]

Just driven 180 miles to Woodstock and back today. My nsx blown apart by the modern bmw Mercedes and Audi racers. The NSX turned all the heads.

[Senninha]

Just driven 180 miles to Woodstock and back today. My nsx blown apart by the modern bmw Mercedes and Audi racers. The NSX turned all the heads.

Good effort, but as my teacher often said, must try harder ;0) today's round trip was 406 miles ... Bizarrely, between us today we have exceeded some owners annual mileage!!!!

An early start gave me some open roads to play with until I joined the commuter train up the M11. Occasional 'gaps' permitted exercise for the loud pedal en route to Barnsley. On arrival I parked in what I thought was out of site location. Late morning and the snap wagon swings past, nothing unusual. At lunchtime my colleague comes back from lunch and advises he has been chatting to a group of Toyota and Honda tech's who had been told there was this honda badged sports car in my customers car park. There was some expensive modern machinery in the car park, but as many of us know, the NSX is a car that continues to attract positive attention.

The journey home was the same mix of a-roads, smiles, waves and thumbs ups!

The purpose for sharing? To suggest that if you're not driving your NSX then what is the point of any comparison as you will have no reference points to compare with. The NSX is a classic supercar of its decade. Comparing the NSX to a GT4 is like debating whether Fangio is better than Senna or if Lewis better than both ... A pointless discussion that will simply devide opinion.

It was nice to see a more positive article, if I get a hard copy I'll put it with other less positive articles. But in the meantime, I'm off out again soon to keep my own reference points alive!

[marknsx]

Great work big man!
Im having a day off diving as my Legend is to be traded in. Got to clean it and move all the junk out first.
Tomorrow local travel only. I need to get to Derby next. I might try a very early start to exploit the roads.

[mjames75]

Well to add this, Just drove a gt4 and Nsx back to back. The gt4 owbner drove my NSX and prefered it. The GT4 is great. The NSX feels special.

[marknsx]

the only car that compares with the NSX is the Audi R8. look at it as a natural progression Honda should reproduce it and do it better.

[marknsx]

the new NSX dosnt in my mind capture the essence. Too much technology not enough je ne sais quoi.

[Senninha]

the only car that compares with the NSX is the Audi R8. look at it as a natural progression Honda should reproduce it and do it better.

From what I've read that's what they've done ...

[havoc]

I think where people (i.e. 'fan boys') can get carried away is thinking their car is an equal match, even if it's a ropey 15 year old car with 100,000 miles. I have driven many a rough NSX because owners haven't spent enough money maintaining important suspension components or have the wrong tyres. With the car now bordering on being an investment, i hope owners are giving their NSX's the attention they deserve!

Agree with this 100% - the "best" (sic) NSX in the country probably is a subjective* match for the best the modern market can offer, sub-£100k.

But a lot of our cars are old and leggy, and need to be driven with a modicum of sympathy - I did a track evening at Donington in the summer, my first proper trackday in the NSX, excluding the two NSXCE trips, and I found myself driving to the car's limits (brake and engine temps, typically) rather than my own, which is the opposite of the way I've been driving hired Caterhams on track, and actually more considered than the way I drove my first (near-new) DC2 on track. A 991 Cayman-S was there and was (slightly) quicker in a straight line, rolled less in the corners, and braked harder - like it or nor a stock NSX isn't a trackday toy!!!
(And note my car has had an 'engine refresh' and was running uprated pads and new dampers, among other refurb'd items, so leggy but hopefully not 'tired')



I think the article IS written from a biased perspective...but everyone, even (esp.) journos, have biases, and that some people consider the NSX to still occupy that rarefied atmosphere IS high praise. Not everyone will, but not everyone did first time around, and not everyone agrees what the best cars are today, so that's irrelevant...



* Ary and the others are right - objectively our car is bettered by some hot hatches nowadays...the nature of progress in brakes, tyres and suspension tech more than anything else.

[Rob_Fenn]

In fairness, the limitation versus modern cars is tyres. The new Cayman has 235/265 section tyres, which is good for braking, acceleration and turning! Ultimately if you strapped a set of wider Michelin Cup 2s on an NSX, you'd have an appreciably quicker car.

The advantage an 'old' car like the NSX has is that it is relatively small and light these days. As a result, it's light on consumables so i would argue not an expensive car to run on track (unless you crash it).

[L696ULO]

For those who didn't see the original Autocar report, the Daily Fail err... Mail have done their own test using the tried and tested 'cut and paste' technique ans here it is:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/cars/article-3346082/Would-buy-65k-Porsche-Cayman-GT4-classic-Ferrari-Honda-NSX.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/cars/article-3346082/Would-buy-65k-Porsche-Cayman-GT4-classic-Ferrari-Honda-NSX.html)