Intermittent starting problem

[PeterW]

Second time now that this has happened to me, so it's time to investigate ...

I started the car from cold, and drove it. Everything was normal.
I parked up, but when I go back to it an hour later, I turned the key, all the warning lights came on, but the starter motor didn't turn.
Numerous attempts to get it to start, but no luck.
I called the RAC, and while I was waiting, after 1/2 hr, tried it again and it started and ran perfectly.
When I got home, I turned it off, and it restarted perfectly.

What I checked while it wasn't working:

When I turn the key to posn 3, I get "click whirr click" from over my shoulder, which I assume means the main relay is fine and the whirring is the fuel pump coming on and then switching itself off when it's up to pressure. I assume it also means the ignition switch is fine. But the starter motor didn't turn.
Battery terminals are secure. It's a newish battery.
Headlights lit up strongly.

After browsing on here and prime, I'm thinking it's the starter motor or the starter motor relay. I thought about hitting the starter motor with the wheel wrench, but fortunately it started of its own accord first.

If anybody has some advice, it would be much appreciated, before I start tearing into my starter motor!

Thanks
Peter

PS it's an NA1 DBW manual.

[goldnsx]

Ignition switch (if the main relay is confessed to be ok). You've ruled that out but I had to change mine years ago too.
Starter motor problems are very rare on the NSX.

[L696ULO]

Do you use the car regularly? When I got my car the previous owner's annual mileage had been 350 miles.
He told me that the starter sometimes stuck and it just needed a gentle tap. When I collected it we stopped after about 20 miles into our journey home, the car started with no problem however after another 15 miles when trying to start it I had exactly the same problems as you. A gentle tap and it was fine I think it only did it one more time in the first year after that I've had no trouble maybe because I use it at least every two weeks.

[L696ULO]

I forgot to say that a broken golf club (handle end) is the right size to tap the starter motor I still keep it in the boot just in case even after 7 years !

Rich

[Pride]

I forgot to say that a broken golf club (handle end) is the right size to tap the starter motor I still keep it in the boot just in case even after 7 years !

Rich

Preferably a golf club for starters then???😂

[PeterW]

goldnsx - Thanks for your reply. I just looked in the manual and if I read it right, the BLK/WHT wire from the ignition switch which supplies power to the starter solenoid, also supplies the main relay which in turn supplies power to the fuel pump. So if the clicking and whirring I heard was the main relay and fuel pump, the ignition switch should be OK. I'm not an electrical engineer though, so I might be completely wrong!

L696ULO - Thanks also for your reply. I found similar advice on Prime while I was waiting for the RAC today! My car's not a daily driver, but it's not a garage queen either. Has anybody else had experience of starter motor problems? Is it the solenoid that sticks? I was sure that Sudesh described a starter motor overhaul a few years ago, but I can't find it. Removing and opening up the starter motor looks fairly easy ... famous last words:rolleyes: !

Thanks
Peter

[goldnsx]

Problems with the ignition switch are well-known, those with the starter motor not. But I'm argueing from the statistical point of view. It was some years ago when mind quit. The starter motor didn't turn but I don't know the behaviour of the dashboard anymore.

[britlude]

http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.php?12102-starter-motor-service!!!

[Pride]

http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.php?12102-starter-motor-service!!!

Suberb work.

[PeterW]

http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.php?12102-starter-motor-service!!!

Brilliant! Thanks Jonathan. Btw I also found Sudesh's post http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.php?6702-NSX-Refresh/page37&highlight=evaporator.

Peter

[britlude]

Brilliant! Thanks Jonathan. Btw I also found Sudesh's post http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.php?6702-NSX-Refresh/page37&highlight=evaporator.

Peter

been there, done that too!!! http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.php?9681-my-aircon-evaporator-overhaul

:)

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Next time when it happens, try activating the plunger by applying 12V at the solenoid terminal of the starter without the IG key. There is a single black wire with 250 female terminal at the end covered in black rubber protector. Just pull it out and apply 12V from the jump start terminal inside the eng bay to the male 250 terminal at the starter body.
If it cranks the engine, your issue is outside of the starter or it’s an intermittent one.

As britlude showed in his thread, fairly common failure and very likely to be the only parts that will wear out on Denso starters.

Just be careful with the spec of your starter.
Honda changed the spec of the starter to the lowered power output from around 95 – 97 but not sure whether the plunger/terminals were different between the two or not.

Kaz

[PeterW]

Thanks Kaz. The test you recommend makes complete sense, and if it happened to me at home where I had tools I would try it. But it's an intermittent problem, so I've decided to go ahead and overhaul the plunger/solenoid using the method in Britlude's thread. I've ordered the parts and started taking the starter motor off the car.

I have run into a problem though. I can't loosen the lower mounting bolt. I've held an impact wrench on it for ages and it won't budge. I also tried a hand ratchet wrench with a "persuader" on it (piece of scaffold pole!). I'm worried about breaking something though. I've squirted some penetrating oil on it and will try it again tomorrow. If that doesn't work I'll put it all back together and take it to my friendly local garage and ask them if they can get the starter off. I'll then bring it home, overhaul it and bring it back for them to reinstall. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks
Peter

[Nick Graves]

A long soak in Plus Gas (and turning it the wrong way) usually works.

Do you not have a breaker bar? Otherwise you might not have a ratchet! Sometimes getting a rhythmic flex on the breaker bar will 'twang' it.

[PeterW]

This is an old thread I started but just to round it off, I thought I should record on here that Jonathan's repair worked very well.
http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.php?12102-starter-motor-service