ABS and TCS lights on

[Graham]

Well, there I wasdriving along, about 200 or 300 yards from home when the car gave aslight shudder and the ABS light came on and then another slightshudder and the TCS light came on. Rats! I checked the tyre pressuresand got them both 33 psi at the front and both 40 psi at the rear,tried it again and the same result. So chaps, I was wondering if Imight ask for a bit of advice.


Could this beanything other then the wheel speed sensors?


As I've replaced thefront two sensors within the last few years and only done a couple ofthousand miles since, I'm thinking it's the one of the rears. Anyoneknow a trick to find out which one?


By now I'm sure after twenty five years they are wellstuck in with corrosion. Anyone know a way of getting them outwithout taking the suspension assembly off the drive shaft andknocking them out from the inside?


I have a spare leftrear sensor but not one for the right rear. An American friend ofmine sent some over the pond for me some years back, but couldn't getthe right rear. He was told they (Acura) don't spare one. Anyone knowwhy or if they are available?


A lot of questions.Sorry. I'm a bit gutted my little beauty has gone wrong. Car is a '93according to the registration but Kaz thinks it's a '91 due to theVIN number. Either way, the same design.


Any help would begreatly appreciated.


Graham

[goldtop]

Rear brake light problem? I know it sounds bizarre, but this is what happened on my NSX. Brake light blows, warning light for that shows up and then after a bit of driving the TCS and ABS lights are on!

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Hi, Graham.

Please read the error code first.
http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.php?9229-How-to-read-the-error-code

If not sure how to decode the lights, please take video and upload it somewhere or you can contact me through Skype, etc with video calling.

Since you triggered both the ABS and TCS lights, very likely to be one of the wheel speed sensor but after you read the error code, please reset them by pulling the 'ABS2,3' 20A fuse inside the pentagonal relay box under the bonnet/hood and carry out another test driving session.
It should trigger the same ABS and TCS error codes.

Unless you have mechanical failure, you can drive with ABS/TCS lights on the dash but please note that both features are disabled until you fix the cause of issue.

The RR sensor for the early model is discontinued. That’s why your friend couldn’t get it.
However, the one for the later model can be used on the early model.
You just need to bend one of the small metal bracket in different direction and that’s the only difference.
Done that many times.
Please use parts # 57470-SL0-020 instead.

Kaz

[Graham]

Thanks Kaz and Goldtop,
I'll check the brake lights tomorrow, although the dashboard light for that doesn't come on, and then I'll have a go at reading the diagnostics.
That explains the unavailability of the RR sensor.
I'm really not that bad at typing, some of the spaces in my text have been removed by the copy/paste and it has joined up some words. Sorry.
If it is the sensors I'm dreading trying to change them.
Graham

[Graham]

Goldtop,

Both brake lights work so might be the fault you suggested. Thanks for the thought though.

Kaz,

Diagnostics read three long and six short. So thirty six? (Thought they were all supposed to be short for the early ABS), anyway, TCFC signal? There's a trouble shoot on page 19-102 I'll follow.

Where would I find the TCS control unit please? Picture on 19-74 shows it at the rear of the car. Is it in the engine bay or behind the seats in the cabin? Errr, actually I think I'll read the whole of chapter 19 before I do anything else.

Graham

[Graham]

Sorry Goldtop, perhaps my typing is that bad. I meant might NOT be the fault you suggested. Doh!

[goldtop]

No worries - was hoping it was something simple. Hope it's sorted soon.

[Graham]

Kaz,

I'm a bit wiser with reading error codes now having read the chapter in the manual.

The check engine light flashes:- 3 long and 6 short - TCFC signal?

The ALB light flashes:- 4 short and 4 short - RR sensor? This code stops flashing after 2 cycles

The TCS light flashes:- 4 long and 4 short - RR sensor?

Looks like it's the sensor I haven't got and the hardest to fit. Would a bad sensor result in a TCFC signal error?

Perhaps we should PM now to stop boring the others.

Graham

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Hi, Graham.
As there are some information that may be of use for other owners, I'll just reply this time here and then we can switch to email.
Both of us already have the email address and mobile no.

You will get CEL #36 if you disable the TCS (like my NSX. I always get code #36 but it has to trigger consecutive 2 failures during each engine start and since there is no TCS controller connected, it can only happen once and thus, no CEL), weak battery, jump starting, etc or problem with the Main Relay and also at the time of sudden hesitation.

Just reset the ECU by pulling the 7.5A CLOCK fuse from the same location as the ALB2,3 fuse, start the engine, test driving and read the code again. Probably, no more CEL #36 as I believe you triggered it when you felt the hesitation due to ALB/TCS #44 code.

I’m afraid ALB #4-4 and TCS 44 are for the RR w/speed sensor.
However, before placing the order and replacing it, please double check the 22pin connector inside the boot.




https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/KQGOugsoxqXYNvbTOiSEpXglIFC1-Vd6Mvnz5A_fcWVmod0xHmdF4Ol9mEIFL_0j7qeqaqMqyG3FUsq _Ex01CSsepKZ8qflw__4BWL0WTmbCZKUKwiJ3DG0wPqYg1doRd k66UHxp8Bn-e9oXzU-LP3ZbcybUujC26PzX-cdmeVt_QtkBNjD5ZJWPNHsqkRwy-A6XHGsGls37_On8Tt7qWJHweY49idcabjwFbXkmWHXoR0Akxmh nRiSGqBCDaT_Zzx7aE6m-XFMla1WIPl5076tU5WE833KDSIyLSTXFGCITeAqQwrC0zouZPr MxwW0RcUcl9OiS0bTWX9vlx3YJ6fo7L0G39VEvwy7U6dsWGg7d Lr8qFb78Hx_bnr_zjp9xFBlAGO1fOWcsO1aaXinL9VEw3jhxau Fhn0Au7psU1g1QeyF4IZStQ3pdCXaa4za1i5rlPLxeQ5Vodkd8 TQPHh7RYbg2ZwM_aLIWhjUbnu5VgpL_tHVZLsqcodv5PwSBRrT a9MSvcmxhavGaIHFPTDiwOqbHXqImMqRmu0-tCB-KnyD-hn8dF7qI5MDPw9j5ibDeSD4pPRQY-kHN_XIpPmzyRG-ThaCKSfy53pqusu-gFBaSp=w800-h600-no

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It’s located left forward section of the boot behind the carpet.


Please check each terminal and look for any corrosion inside the FEMALE terminal.
Ideally, you want to use the mating terminal and go through all of the female terminal to check the pressure resistance when inserting it.
You may find one or both of the female terminals for RR w/speed sensor signal were damaged and causing the ALB/TCS light.

If it’s RR sensor failure, chances are, the sensor head is seized inside the hub carrier due to oxidation.
Removing the rear sensor is not easy once this happens because you have sensor trigger teeth on the drive shaft joint housing so you need to somehow pull out the sensor head without damaging the trigger teeth.

If you can remove the spindle nut and slide the drive shaft spline out enough (no need to separate completely out of the hub), you can punch out the sensor head.


Kaz

[Graham]

Thanks Kaz, I'll try the connector tomorrow. Only just read this as my broadband has been down all afternoon.

I checked the resistance of the RR sensor this morning; it was 936 ohms. Seemed within the limit of 750 to 1200 ohms.

More tomorrow,

Graham

[Graham]

So, I've finally got my right rear wheel speed sensor changed and the ALB and TSC lights don't come on. Success, but worth noting a couple of points.


I managed to get anew sensor from the US made by Standard, supposedly for an early NSX. The RR sensor is no longer spared by Honda or Acura for the earlier models and you have to get the later one and modify one of the attachment brackets. Well, this one was in need of a bracket modification too so so much for that!

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/JHsNpySFUYF49S32cHSs8RrKHre6DUVlMBlUpVLVdn5gaKdxcT E40rtxJSA8cc7Sp9LI9lx2UZ8gJtzj4Y0zqA587yGHGEzbBP9N 2IaGGb4SZjqfspmD3-eq3PiXWddu47AVE81ooQR-PyG0rj3aW1sus4BxoU2H5AC-fR6vFyle-hwLrrxs_SyOsxVdd6f40gIgcjEns0vDt6G8cLAG__m888gmPBf ipZNhrriCkaz8tAoEOZb__8jgaARqal7_wc24r5x5F0LUMKpoB X3q4TriHvyzQBbkodWOg2eSoG2lUwUp9P4dvK4V91YBlRxHzry t96ZP1ASWXVQizvYqI3DJKzk-rowi0zmgLAevHq6ztbNp8-G-V68VXEMt5wIc2smSCoXZZV-cvKRbOsRS_-571sr5g2dcSfsugkXCrdhg44H4X9Cxq802FfAv0_u2UF_R7J3n 5tSa1n2lG2aI1cUpAtxrDYX0fpTDok11a05-FvD8iWb3plUqeH2Wt0mQgnUN8fm_oOgOAVx2Wh_ZJfO1_Unnvo INmqhqoF50VgE_smKp1pbYQDSA1enyS4m_wtz0stMQkJQnMIyN McKsTEE8RQR3Cg4tcmR6ogwtBhKDSZKuA1SfQg=w1080-h810-no




When I got the old loom off I just took the bracket off the old one and substituted it on the new loom.


I figured that as the old sensor was well and truly stuck in the suspension knuckle,I'd have to take the entire knuckle assembly off the drive shaft and bash the sensor out from the inside. This can be done by disconnecting the lower arms and camber adjustment rod and a couple of other things and swinging the knuckle out pivoting on the upper ball joint. The drive shaft can then the removed downwards. This is the method described in the manual and one Kaz has used on my car in the past to refurbish the drive shafts.


When I'd undone practically all the nuts and bolts necessary, and while waiting for my brother to arrive as an extra pair of hands, I thought I'd have ago at removing the sensor that I was so sure was impossible to remove from the outside. Lo and behold, after an hour of drilling, chiselling, dremelling and levering, I managed to force/dig what remained of the sensor out.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/06BzFqD4-_wmCgUFi_sgYOGvnD5jm3x7QxzRdaxcXaoz4KhrpqUkznPKruj 1DJApIp-egxeUwN-hPIhryVYJ2HYSVgOR_uE2eaexNfQW8MorydcTNovfiStF4o6LW 3zIXrW0Sdv9iQt-WNET4bEQTCd18kaQM8pgGIa4r80OaVkhYtlXAH6dPvY-Si2-AB2XSv4URQFBAQs4Y5lVKMQEh-lE72mPvxLYMEjCMCGcnaC3f5AcxSkjiCYeQEvQrx_2l-Zmp2fpb1oh9G3grMYViHu438ffSuUqIISbPW6-Enjcm2QALK-32-QdSa6WFoPzRD3OmH7PddQ1UcRbV1FxnyTq4kg2LdQZOTM-QpqTwFStMZzY7OrZHwySO5W8YU9hujk6C31ppbh3HLcRHiyNhi GwNpYI3ckWdDn7Xa1V7nEDJBNv36TWXh7-rLV1FnAJUANY-LxnluukKP-L2j4RFEuOJoaQyjJE3Y55gOyzQOUqpHw7jrtnz2fFOBvrHiKAd GWG0ZcoUHPXyVtwjviuS1uFNkSHMBZ9SWE8n4WKq8E0f9YleZL xpsovi1ut5kstWFuWRivULxeqV6DB8FJKStgjM6BbQPmFOjeLD ww4IZUvYhGADLCuIQ=w1080-h810-no




I cleaned out the hole and smeared silicon grease in it and fitted the new sensor, then spent the next hour doing up everything I'd undone to get the drive shaft out.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/06fYdmJsW5l5rgZk9DX4Me1Y0GTKM1FS8nBHhN30DzGK9hyBWd s8RT_vNmIE5NM5Q0jo8lpD58gLs45h-EwBaniJQgO366xUE08h1WxiHm3JwnXuaFHzHV8OH-nwLW5bzV9OHm34-lRtx_FXlh1a_v8s_Ob03-IGPu1TTnXYXv8Domc6LMkZf0DBNMKbo-cYbJ8udiOao1wRrWKT_nZ2IbUxCbwVpuUp97BdumYHpoClve-sKGgK3GFNMrDcnuZ-mGkt8ZPIP1zXH_xEMj2yO95rnbVWYCorAfGYsDhoh1StnVGg1o xb39mhY0skhOhoXiIg0dAEExedopQkBDiQN0gVARO69b78CTkE AjDX7OanowbI3yzwg-SUR3aE9AZwnAF1gd_sPOtsTIDHJWFm6E0BnLdFG2F1Es4nw0Fc 3oE96C-xzy_9VVQBaJ6SWtpDugX1CO2RhH4dRPZiVwNJ3-AVvffqA9mvkJIROfHv0f_pRULu79T-mNji7AsaC6HayHC29STPh0gSNnbBDHCltRxTVdb-OTPeIfUH8cnp5kQvGmiwlUz4HfxFycsVbAuBMTkjaBD9LLtlm5 AmxUY8V6KVxjsYSHrCDYXcTTbYrUokTs05tS8XQQ=w1080-h810-no


I strongly urge anyone who has to change a rear wheel sensor to try everything to get the sensor out from the outside before reverting to the drive shaft removal method. It might not be possible but it's definitely worth a try.

Graham