Cat D N5XGC

[marknsx]

Does anyone know this CAT D NSX currently for sale on Autotrader?
Thanks

[britlude]

this one??

http://pictures2.autotrader.co.uk/imgser-uk/servlet/media?id=a3588eacac4a48aeaf3406c07646794e

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201511198830361

[marknsx]

thats the one

[britlude]

no idea... anyone?????

[marknsx]

Accident 17 yrs ago according to the dealer

[umran9]

Hi did anyone go to view this car? Been up for sale a while now....

[umran9]

Anyone??????

[Silver Surfer]

Probably not.....

SS

[goldtop]

Indeed; who would we trust to do a proper evaluation of an structural NSX repair? Every Cat C/D car that I heard about through the club has been scary. I was talked out of buying 2 which came up for sale when I was looking (by their owners at the time of the crash).

I remember that Honda crashed a customer's car and then repaired it, but I bet they didn't put in the time/effort that Kaz would say is required. It's unlilely to be done with the same sort of meticulous care as McLaren rebuilding Rowan Atkinson's wrecked F1.

[Pride]

That's because it's "only" an NSX.

[havoc]

That's because it's "only" an NSX.

Well, they did sell >400 in this country alone, and something like 15-20k globally, vs how few Mclaren F1's?

Insurance only care about cost/benefit analysis (£10m Macca is a pretty easy one to decide what to do with...) - if it'll cost too much to fix properly they Cat-C it, and then it's down to whoever gets hold of the car...

[drmikey]

You can't generalise about CAT C or D cars. Some will have had structural damage and some superficial. Also I know there are a couple of cars out there that have had structural damage but are unrecorded!

Honda produced a complete body repair manual which details how to replace any structural part on an NSX - literally a step by step guide. So it is possible to repair any NSX properly.

And it is quite straightforward to assess the quality of a repair on an NSX once the areas have been located. Again, the manuals detail distances, triangulation points and other measurements to assess trueness of the chassis etc..

Of course, there may be some bad repairs out there but a bad repair is quite easy to spot - eg if an area has been "pulled" or butt welded when a whole section should have been replaced

Assess a categorized car on its own merit, and dont assume just because a car s "HPI" clear, it has never sustained any damage!

[goldtop]

a bad repair is quite easy to spot ...

Assess a categorized car on its own merit

That's a fair point. But, and it's a big one, 99.9% of car owners wouldn't know how to assess a chassis repair of any car. The number who could recognise good/bad work on an aluminium car might be what - 1/10 of those?

I understand that you, Kaz, ATR and some others here have picked apart enough NSXs to be able to tell the difference, but for us mere mortals... not a chance. :)

Seriously, if any of you guys would give this car a clean bill of health, and a detailed structural report, and put some PLI behind it, I'm sure the owners (current or future) would pay a reasonable amount for the work. It's got to be worth about £5000 on the asking price. And it would bring a 'questionable' NSX back into the mainstream market.

But for now, they just look like liabilities.

[Papalazarou]

Mike's correct about there being cars out there with accident damage that were not recorded. My old blue facelift. Bought from salvage, repaired badly, then sold on to someone who put different wheels and a different plate on it then sold it through one of the 'NSX' dealers.
Looking at PH today, I see there's at least two others which have a serious history.
I looked at a car a few weeks back which was terrible. Not so much barn find but ocean find!
Anyway, the first thing I did was get the spare wheel out and look for chassis leg damage. My LBB car had creased at the base of the legs.
Another trick is to use American market body panels because they are generally cheaper, and weld over the indicator holes.
I've got no issue with repaired cars. I nearly bought one in Japan. But it's got to be documented and done right.
Insurance companies not cat registering cars with £30k worth of damage, in order to boost salvage sales, seems criminal to me.
Whilst on the subject, did anyone see that 91 manual on ebay with the side smashed in. That car sold for £21K! Amazing.

[dcnsx]

Does anyone know where it was damaged? Plans offer a collection and inspection service for a reasonable fee. Knowing where it’s had a smack it should be easy for them to spot any problems, poor repair etc.

[goldnsx]

I'd never ever buy a car that has been known to be damaged but I won't be presented with pictures of the damage.

[Hagasan]

Does anyone know where it was damaged? Plans offer a collection and inspection service for a reasonable fee. Knowing where it’s had a smack it should be easy for them to spot any problems, poor repair etc.

����Look no further than the above post.....

[Papalazarou]

I think to offer this service credibly. You should have a high level of structural, electrical and mechanical expertise.
This guy for instance, does this for Porsche, notably GT3's. http://www.porscheinspections.com/aboutus.php
As we all know, there's a lot to check on an NSX. The service should also be impartial.

Cheers.

[goldtop]

I guess the Porsche guy can create a specialist service thanks to the volume of cars (and perhaps the chances of crashes on track days)? Even then, the Ts & Cs limit the comeback in case he misses stuff.

If I was going to be interested in a Cat C/D NSX (and I was a while ago, and I spoke to the forumite who crashed one) and was going to buy one on the basis of a report from an expert, I'd want him to have PLI and no unreasonable clauses in the Ts & Cs. I'd guess the PLI would be prohibitively expensive.

And so we are where we are: no-one really wants to touch Cat C/D NSXs and they hang around a while.

Sadly, the advert for that crashed red JDM import you saw makes it clear that it's unrecorded in the UK and implies this is an opportunity for someone to make money (though at £21k + + I don't know how!)

[Papalazarou]

The Cat C/D thing's quite intetesting really. You crash a car 'say minimally' but the car is written off for whatever reason; gap insurance, uneconomical to repair etc. The car is then tough to move on. Often because no-one logs or keeps the repair information.
Anyway, the bottom line is that the car is worth half market value and is hard to resell.
Meanwhile, people are taking rusty 60's chassis's with a logbook to restoration garages, which rebuild pretty much the entire car and sell it as an authentic Ferrari, Aston Martin, etc....
I know it's economics and perhaps it doesn't matter if you don't know what you're buying. But it just smacks of rediculous.
Not only that, but you can paint it whatever standard colour you want.,and if you get it right, it's worth even more money.
Ever wanted to paint your NSX championship white. Well in 20 years time you can and it won't matter. Do it now and effectively half it's value.
We are a stupid creature who doesn't understand the real value of material things. ������

[gcon45]

And so we are where we are: no-one really wants to touch Cat C/D NSXs and they hang around a while.


I put my red facelift up for sale in the summer at £59,995 and was inundated with phone calls.
I had several £50K+ offers with the best being £52.5K (which came from an english dealer who wanted to have the car collected the following day) so the above statement is untrue (for facelifts anyway).
I decided not to sell in the end. Had I been offered the full amount I may have been tempted but I doubt even then I could have parted with it. It wasn’t a completely wasteful exercise however as I got to find out what the car’s actual current value is.

[drmikey]

This is a really interesting point and I think it's down to the NSXs own success as the "Everyday Supercar"

How many 1991 "restored" NSXs are there out there compared to restored Ferrari 348s, or Esprits or Lambos for example.

The latter cars are classed as classic, vintage, retro collectables that probably get driven once in a blue moon and sit in a collectors or enthusiasts garage

The NSX is still considered an everyday car - expected to start on the button, have minimal mechanical issues, relatively straightforward to service.

I think as such, many do not consider it a classic "classic" - its too good a car!

Whereas something unreliable, rusty, nightmare to maintain, achieves higher number classic "points".

And similarly with CAT C/D damage or reshells, replacing half the car due to rust - many marques can get away with it - its accepted, but not for the NSX.

Yes it has an aluminium chassis, but it can be fixed very well according to the very detailed service manual.

Whereas something like an Elise, is basically designed to be thrown away if any structural damage.











The Cat C/D thing's quite intetesting really. You crash a car 'say minimally' but the car is written off for whatever reason; gap insurance, uneconomical to repair etc. The car is then tough to move on. Often because no-one logs or keeps the repair information.
Anyway, the bottom line is that the car is worth half market value and is hard to resell.
Meanwhile, people are taking rusty 60's chassis's with a logbook to restoration garages, which rebuild pretty much the entire car and sell it as an authentic Ferrari, Aston Martin, etc....
I know it's economics and perhaps it doesn't matter if you don't know what you're buying. But it just smacks of rediculous.
Not only that, but you can paint it whatever standard colour you want.,and if you get it right, it's worth even more money.
Ever wanted to paint your NSX championship white. Well in 20 years time you can and it won't matter. Do it now and effectively half it's value.
We are a stupid creature who doesn't understand the real value of material things. ������

[goldnsx]

Yes it has an aluminium chassis, but it can be fixed very well according to the very detailed service manual.
I agree with your points but a corroded but unbent steel chassis is not the same as a bent one esp. when aluminium is involved. It CAN be fixed according to the very detailed service manual but there's an economical incentive to keep costs within certain limits when doing so. If you repair it step by step according to the manual the effort and the costs are so high that noone would rebuild a crashed NSX. That's why a Lotus Elise is thrown away after a crash.
There are (call it) 'crazy' dismantlers out there who part out very young luxury cars even after a slight 'fender-bender' just because:
- the parts are worth more than the repaired car
- people in the price-range have very high expectations and won't buy a fixed or resprayed car even it was only slightly damaged. Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huGe5L6nDBk Ferraris, Lambos etc...
I guess/fear that the trend is going in this direction. If the new car gets gremlins or slighty crashed people throw it away and move on to the next toy. This is in contradiction to 20 or 30 years ago.

As for the NSX: as long as there are 'enough' cars out there there's no need to rebuild them from a heavy crash. Unlike other makes the car is so reliable that you won't make so much money just from the parts or have to wait a very long time to get wrid of them.

[Nick Graves]

Is that the story (morning glory) with that late-model red one up on PH for £55 large?

[drmikey]

Elises are binned as they cannot be fixed - according to Lotus. Complex bonding, not conventional spot welds like on the NSX

Many shops in Japan and one in Europe fix crashed NSXs to a high standard.

Yes Im sure there are some dodgy repairs also.

TBH the NSX chassis is so over engineered you really would have to have a complete bodge job for it to cause any serious safety issues (as long as it aligns straight, of course).

Anyone who drives a Caterham would be in far more danger in an accident than a repaired NSX!

But CAT C and D is also good for us lesser mortals that cant afford mint condition low mile "HPI clear ;) " cars, but still want to experience an NSX :)







I agree with your points but a corroded but unbent steel chassis is not the same as a bent one esp. when aluminium is involved. It CAN be fixed according to the very detailed service manual but there's an economical incentive to keep costs within certain limits when doing so. If you repair it step by step according to the manual the effort and the costs are so high that noone would rebuild a crashed NSX. That's why a Lotus Elise is thrown away after a crash.
There are (call it) 'crazy' dismantlers out there who part out very young luxury cars even after a slight 'fender-bender' just because:
- the parts are worth more than the repaired car
- people in the price-range have very high expectations and won't buy a fixed or resprayed car even it was only slightly damaged. Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huGe5L6nDBk Ferraris, Lambos etc...
I guess/fear that the trend is going in this direction. If the new car gets gremlins or slighty crashed people throw it away and move on to the next toy. This is in contradiction to 20 or 30 years ago.

As for the NSX: as long as there are 'enough' cars out there there's no need to rebuild them from a heavy crash. Unlike other makes the car is so reliable that you won't make so much money just from the parts or have to wait a very long time to get wrid of them.

[Hagasan]

Looks like the subject car of this thread has found an owner now going by a Facebook post earlier...

[umran9]

Ive bought the car in question!

[goldnsx]

Congrats for your purchase!

[havoc]

Nice one...let us know how you get on with her!

[umran9]

Got her booked in for a major service cambelt etc at Norton Way just waiting for parts to arrive from Japan...Need to find some decent wheels too!