2018 f1

[NSX 2000]

So the first day of the F1 winter testing has started

1) Ricciardo (Red Bull) 1:20.179 Medium
2) Bottas (Mercedes) 1:20.349 Medium
3) Raikkonen (Ferrari) 1:20.506 Soft
4) Hulkenberg (Renault) 1:20.547 Medium
5) Hartley (Toro Rosso) 1:22.371 Soft
6) Stroll (Williams) 1:22.452 Soft
7) Grosjean (Haas) 1:23.092 Medium
8) Alonso (McLaren) 1:24.202 Super soft
9) Ericsson (Sauber) 1:24.897 Medium
10) Mazepin (Force India) 1:25.628 Medium

So pleased the Toro Rosso has done a faster lap than the McLaren, plus it did 72 laps this morning, unlike the McLaren!

[WhyOne?]

Yep, I was just catching up on this.

Awful start for McLaren, and an encouraging one for Toro Rosso and Honda.

The Honda engine still sounds like a skeleton in a biscuit tin on deceleration - how do they do that?!

[goldnsx]

The table of completed laps is much more impressive as a lost testday sets you back by far (esp if you simply loose your wheel):

Renault 73
Toro Rosso 72
Ferrari 60
Red Bull 60
Mercedes 58
Williams 46
Sauber 41
Haas 32
Force India 22
McLaren 10

During the first day the lap times are not very relevant but if you want to point out one thing: Red Bull is 4 seconds faster than McLaren with the same engine. It will be interesting to see how McLaren adopts the Renault engine and if they even can near to Red Bull with their years of experience with the Renault engine.

It looks like Toro Rosso and Honda did a very good job over the winter. The new baby seems to be alive and kicking (fingers crossed).

[Pride]

I don't know whether you guys have seen this new compelling insight series about how and why Maclaren broke up with Honda but if you can get watch it you would really enjoy it.

Could the same scenario be happening with Renault now???🤔

https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2018/01/new-behind-the-scenes-mclaren-f1-series-to-show-road-to-honda-break-up/

[WhyOne?]

I don't know whether you guys have seen this new compelling insight series about how and why Maclaren broke up with Honda but if you can get watch it you would really enjoy it.

Could the same scenario be happening with Renault now???��

https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2018/01/new-behind-the-scenes-mclaren-f1-series-to-show-road-to-honda-break-up/

MacLaren:
http://www.maclaren.uk/

McLaren:
https://www.mclaren.com/formula1/

Why on earth, after just ~4 hours of testing (disrupted for McLaren beacuse they apparently failed to screw one of the wheels onto Fred's car properly) would you suggest that McLaren and Renault may be parting?!

[goldnsx]

90 laps for Toro Rosso now. That's a good start! I think that is much, much more than in the previous three years all together on day one. Very promissing that the car is working as it should regardless how fast it is.

[Pride]

MacLaren:
http://www.maclaren.uk/

McLaren:
https://www.mclaren.com/formula1/

Why on earth, after just ~4 hours of testing (disrupted for McLaren beacuse they apparently failed to screw one of the wheels onto Fred's car properly) would you suggest that McLaren and Renault may be parting?!

Calm Dow, calm down, I was only being facetious, you shouldn't take it so seriously. :)

[WhyOne?]

:rolleyes:

Back in the real world, early days but encouraging to see top three cars today powered by three different engines and only ~0.3 seconds appart.

[Senninha]

Wheel nuts aside, of more concern is that Red Bull & Renault can both be 4 seconds faster than Alonso AND be on Medium compound tyres whilst he was on the super soft that should be faster ... please tell us they were testing without chasing time otherwise its going to be dissapointing with some very unhappy investors, not to mention Maclaren fans .....

[goldnsx]

Last year, a rookie Canadian crashed the Williams on day one, what a nightmare. During testing we don't know the test program, fuel load or safety margins. That's why it's hard to compare them. We might get an idea at the end of the test days...

The Top3 teams seem to be set for 2018 but how far are they apart? It's rumored that Honda brought a de-tuned engine to Barcelona just to make sure all tests (except speed) can be accomplished.

Investors: teams still looking for new investors have an incentive to cheat a little bit with a light car and better times while the others don't have to. How many pounds have to be shaved off the McLaren to gain 4 seconds??? :)

[NSXGB]

I thought the MaClaren testing looked to be going well...

https://conversation.which.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/flying_pushchair_mum_464x271.jpg

[Pride]

Fernando claims the new Maclaren is the most powerful he's driven yet but still can't understand why he's so slow.😂

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[WhyOne?]

Wheel nuts aside, of more concern is that Red Bull & Renault can both be 4 seconds faster than Alonso AND be on Medium compound tyres whilst he was on the super soft that should be faster ... please tell us they were testing without chasing time otherwise its going to be dissapointing with some very unhappy investors, not to mention Maclaren fans .....

Where are you seeing 4 seconds Paul? Your right about the tyres, but the gap between Ricciardo (1:20.179 seconds) and Fred (1:22.354) is ~2 seconds by my maths? Still a huge gulf in F1 terms, but I still remain optimistic that McLaren and Alonso will perform OK this season. I do feel it is unrealistic for them to immediately make up the gap to Red Bull who after all have 3 years of experience working with the Renault engine.

[WhyOne?]

Stoffel in the McLaren ~0.15 seconds adrift of the Ferrari both running the same tyres. It's only testing, but that hasn't happened in a 'normal' session for a good while :)

1. Sebastian Vettel (Ferrari) 1:20.168
2. Valtteri Bottas (Mercedes) 1:20.270
3. Stoffel Vandoorne (McLaren) 1:20.325
4. Max Verstappen (Red Bull) 1:21.014
5. Carlos Sainz (Renault) 1:21.212
6. Pierre Gasly (Toro Rosso) 1:21.318
7. Sergey Sirotkin (Williams) 1:21.822
8. Esteban Ocon (Force India) 1:22.231
9. Kevin Magnussen (Haas) 1:22.850
10. Charles Leclerc (Sauber) 1:23.914

[goldnsx]

Problems at McLaren again. Gasly did 59 laps, only Bottas has more with 72.

[goldnsx]

During the first test week in Barcelona Toro Rosso did the most laps with 324. The car seems to run and they've able to gather the desired data I guess. In the first races reliability is more important than speed. Let's see how they do next week. Force India and Haas seeem to be in trouble...

[WhyOne?]

Predictably, Mercedes are looking ominously fast and reliable.

Good mileage for both Toro Rosso and McLaren yesterday.

[NSX 2000]

Predictably, Mercedes are looking ominously fast and reliable.

Couldn't agree more, don't think your get very good odds on Hamilton to win his 5th F1 title.

[Senninha]

Where are you seeing 4 seconds Paul? Your right about the tyres, but the gap between Ricciardo (1:20.179 seconds) and Fred (1:22.354) is ~2 seconds by my maths? Still a huge gulf in F1 terms, but I still remain optimistic that McLaren and Alonso will perform OK this season.

From the opening post Ian ... although its old news now looking further down the thread ...

1) Ricciardo (Red Bull) 1:20.179 Medium
8) Alonso (McLaren) 1:24.202 Super soft

rgds Paul

[WhyOne?]

From the opening post Ian ... although its old news now looking further down the thread ...

1) Ricciardo (Red Bull) 1:20.179 Medium
8) Alonso (McLaren) 1:24.202 Super soft

rgds Paul

Old news indeed - even at the time of your post. The McLaren had only done 6 laps at that point....and then the wheel fell off!!!!

[goldnsx]

Very suspicious:
Toro Rosso had not a single problem related to the engine and completed many laps so far.
McLaren only had problems so far with the 'highlight' of the need to change the engine today.

Very hypothetical but maybe McLaren could have contributed to the problems (for Honda) by far more than what we've heard or read here and there in the last years.
Franz Tost on the other hand is very happy with Honda. It looks as both parties can benefit.

[Pride]

Just a few bugs to iron out and they’ll be good to go.

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[havoc]

Very hypothetical but maybe McLaren could have contributed to the problems (for Honda) by far more than what we've heard or read here and there in the last years.
I've always thought that, to be honest:-
- Red Bull historically had Renault problems, with a few parties suggesting partly because their bodywork design caused packaging and/or cooling issues. Their performance improved over time, but no-one said whether the engine changed or the bodywork changed...
- Mclaren's 2015/16 cars were touted as having very tight rear bodywork...maybe they've continued that?!?
- Mclaren are almost as arrogant a team as Ferrari.

[Pride]

I've always thought that, to be honest:-
- Mclaren's 2015/16 cars were touted as having very tight rear bodywork...maybe they've continued that?!?
- Mclaren are almost as arrogant a team as Ferrari.

Mclaren certainly like to keep their pit crew excessively busy and always on their toes, probably while Alonso takes it easy in his 6🌟 luxury motor home being massaged before his next few laps.😂

[WhyOne?]

I've always thought that, to be honest:-
.....

- Mclaren's 2015/16 cars were touted as having very tight rear bodywork...maybe they've continued that?!?
..


This year's McLaren certainly continues their design philosophy of the last few years with the bodywork very tightly packaged - the car looks quite different to the others. I think there is little doubt this radical approach has, and is continuing too, cause problems with the engine and electric gubbins.

However, they aren't going to win anything being the same as the rest, especially as they now have a customer engine.

It's difficult to draw sensible conclusions from testing, but (stating the bleeding obvious!) the car looks potentially fast but currently fragile.

Despite their place in the weeks lap times (7th iirc) I have little doubt to he Mercedes will be the car to beat.

Interesting to see that Renault have a blown rear wing...if they manage to get it working, expect the others to cry 'foul'.

[goldnsx]

- Mclaren are almost as arrogant a team as Ferrari.
Not sure but how do Japanese react in general when you get blamed and accused officially by McLaren and Alonso? It's a different culture I don't know. Honda was paying a big part of the annual bills. Wild guessing but as 2015/2016 were very difficult for them I could imagine that Honda was more than happy to change the team at the end of 2017 and might have contributed to that in 2017 by blowing up engines just to part from McLaren? Really wild guessing I know.
Last year we had a very angry Renault engine boss who accused Toro Rosso of not using the recommended mapping in one race to gain an advantage but blowing the Renault engine instead. McLaren has problems with any engine in their car since 2015. So I think that they've contributed somehow to the "Honda-disaster" which was partly caused by McLaren but Honda was resting silent. The new aera with Toro Rosso is very, very promissing. And Helmut Marko is watching this project pretty closely to part Red Bull from Renault in the near future. Renault wants a decision from Red Bull in April...a little bit early.
Last year, Verstappen had some problem with the Renault engine too but he's really a wild driver...

[WhyOne?]

I think it is a bit (!!!!) of a stretch to suggest that a company who invests countless millions for the opportunity to demonstrate their engineering prowess in F1 would deliberately 'detonate' their engines in front of a global TV audience.

As for the increasingly public critisism of the Honda engine by Fred and McLaren, I would expect that Honda where quite rightly annoyed and frustrated by this and, by remaining silent, came out of the whole debacle with rather more dignity as a consequence.

[goldnsx]

I know it's a big stretch but on the other hand the Honda people are also human being. They know seppuku, harakiri, 'not loosing his face' but how do they react in the case of 'deliberate' revenge?

If you know that the season is going to end and the publicity damage is already done (by Fred and McL) and you know that you're working with a new team you have all the incentives for a revenge. :)

[WhyOne?]

I know it's a big stretch but on the other hand the Honda people are also human being. They know seppuku, harakiri, 'not loosing his face' but how do they react in the case of 'deliberate' revenge?

If you know that the season is going to end and the publicity damage is already done (by Fred and McL) and you know that you're working with a new team you have all the incentives for a revenge. :)

Hmmmm...too far into tinfoil hat territory for me!

[havoc]

As for the increasingly public critisism of the Honda engine by Fred and McLaren, I would expect that Honda where quite rightly annoyed and frustrated by this and, by remaining silent, came out of the whole debacle with rather more dignity as a consequence.

Agreed, in part:-
- For those people that think about it, Honda's silence is a consequence of them not wanting to get into any sort of argument (which I understand is contrary to Japanese culture of politeness).
- For those that just view it through a 21st Century Western Media filter, their silence is probably read as guilt...since everyone on the media now adopts the 'offence is the best form of defence' strategy and throws as much mud as possible. Honda not saying anything could be read as them not having any excuses at all...

I also agree that Honda wouldn't have deliberately sabotaged their engines...but would have started dropping hints that maybe the partnership wasn't working out...

[goldnsx]

I'm glad that Sauber - a C-team - cancelled the deal with Honda (or Honda with Sauber with Vasseur joining Sauber). Even though being patriotic I think that Honda has much more potential with Toro Rosso. In addition, the chance to put their engine in a class A-team like Red Bull maybe in 2019 has much more potential. And Red Bull has proven to be a winning team even with a slower Renault engine.
I don't say they deliberately blew up their engine. But after two frustrating years with McLaren they were thinking about another team and just let 2017 go while concentrating on the next deal, Toro Rosso in 2018.
Can't wait for Adelaide...

[WhyOne?]

Adelaide? You're in for quite a wait!

[goldnsx]

Ups, I meant Melbourne. :) Anyway, both on the continent of Australia.

[WhyOne?]

This is indeed true :)

[Pride]

So what did we learn at today's Australian GP then:

A great opportunity for Kenlow cooling fans to make a dramatic comeback with the Mercedes F1 team.😂

Alonso's McLaren team have at last made a car that can at least hold up the faster cars during a race.😂

A virtual safety car creates the most dramatic overtake of the race.😂

Honda if nothing else are being very consistent for their F1 reliability.😂

Snap-On wheel guns as used on the American Haas team are certainly not worth the money they cost.😂

Not one one of the pundits at the end of the race spoke about any overtake moves, that has to be a first.😂

The Russian drivers car was I'm sure sabotaged to fail.😂

All in all a very boring Road-Train performance from one and all, roll on Bahrain.

[goldnsx]

All in all a very boring Road-Train performance from one and all, roll on Bahrain.
So true. Even Mercedes coulnd't use the party modus and drive behind a car for a longer time without overheating.

I wish the Toro Rosso failed during testing and not during the race.

Hartley did some Kamikaze braking (drove like an amateur) in the first corner, ruined his tires and was forced to change them. Not the best weekend for them. I hope they'll do better next time.

McLaren was incredibly reliable and fast from what you'd expect after testing.

[Senninha]

Schoolboy errors spoiled the HAAS weekend and the result for Lewis, but on the upside, Alonso had a decent result ... but still needs a lot of work to close the gap and to exploit the chassis if its as good as they claim ...

As for the rest of it, it was a good backdrop for a Sunday nap ...

[WhyOne?]

Pretty much agree with most of the above comments.

It was great to see McLaren and Fred competing properly in Division 2 (i.e. everyone bar the silver and the red cars) - they are clearly still behind Red Bull, but they've had 3 more years working with the Renault engine and have the genius that is Adrian Newey designing their cars.

Haas look a handful for the div. 2 teams - Magnussen was my driver of the day.

I think Mercedes over-revealed their hand in Q3 - giving Lewis 'Party' mode was a mistake - I really don't think they wanted everyone else to know they were actually still 0.7sec ahead. Sobering for Ferrari I'm sure.

You have to wonder what the hell Williams are doing with that engine - very sad to see two, at best, wealthy but inexperienced journeymen in a seat once squabbled over by the likes of Senna, Mansell and Prost.

Whilst I was quite happy to see a red car win, someone at the FIA really needs to look at the VSC protocols...

As for Honda - that was a dismal showing, yielding an even worse result than Melbourne last year with McLaren, and that is quite an achievement!

[britlude]

hmmmm... well that was dull.....

not got sky so avoided the news and watched it on channel 4... Sarah googled the result half way thru the race as it was soooo dull and couldn't be bothered to watch the procession!!! lol


how they have managed to get to a point where the cars are finally matched, but even with the artificial advantage of DRS the cars cannot get close enough to actually make an overtake attempt. if they do follow closely they overheat the car, or ruin the tyres.... then we get to the point Hamilton backs off to preserve the engine... it is getting increasingly farcical!!!

as for bottas getting a grid penalty because he had to replace the gearbox after a crash in the first race quali.......

if it carries on like this i'm not sure i'll be too fussed that live races go exclusively to pay-per-view next year.

if they want more action, they need to stop going to tracks that don't actually allow for overtaking.

it is ridiculous that all the pundits were saying its a difficult track to overtake on before it even started! if that is the case change it, or don't go there!

oh, and the Halo hasn't added at all, but now we're stuck with it.... :(

[WhyOne?]

Other than that, quite impressed then Jonathan?!

[Pride]

Nice video:

https://mobile.twitter.com/HondaRacingF1/status/974253946318581762/video/1

[havoc]

hmmmm... well that was dull.....

...

if it carries on like this i'm not sure i'll be too fussed that live races go exclusively to pay-per-view next year.

To be honest I gave up on F1 late-on in the 2016 season. It SHOULD be the pinnacle of motorsport but it's been collectively ruined by the pinnacle of motorsport politics, between Bernie and the manufacturer-teams originally, and now Liberty are tinkering around without seeming to understand what people want.

Conversely:-
- GT racing is currently brilliant;
- Rallycross looks like they've found a purple patch, and I'm planning to go to Silverstone in May.


PS - still very sad that WRC is a ghost of its former self.

[britlude]

rallycross was originally designed for tv, short sharp action packed racing with barking mad powerful machinery being driven flat out for the duration.... seems tv has remembered it exists at last! Lydden is local so have been a few times!

[goldnsx]

Gasly's car has a new Honda engine for Bahrain, pretty surely one with more power at the same time. P7 in 1. practice, P8 in 2. practice, both times among McL and Renault.

...and have a look here:
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[Pride]

Mclaren are slowly getting their sh1t together but :)

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[NSX 2000]

So Red Bull are going with Honda as of 2019.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44530950

[goldnsx]

As expected...

[britlude]

Alonso's last year in F1.....!!!!!!

https://www.mclaren.com/formula1/team/fernando-alonso/mclaren-confirms-fernando-alonso-decision/

[Senninha]

Alonso's last year in F1.....!!!!!!

https://www.mclaren.com/formula1/team/fernando-alonso/mclaren-confirms-fernando-alonso-decision/

An amazingly talented driver with a flawed approach to career management ... he could easily have had more titles ... so lets start the speculation and suggest Indy for next year or two then when/if he bags the 500 title he may drift over the horizon ...

[WhyOne?]

One of the most committed and talented drivers of all time IMHO. He'll be missed in F1 and a great asset to whichever series he chooses next. He's a racer through and through and I'm quite sure he won't be hanging up his helmet any time soon.

[NSXGB]

Hope he gets a decent seat in Indy Car. Great talent.

[Pride]

Hope he gets a decent seat in Indy Car. Great talent.

And he'll probably be racing for his all time favourite marque, Acura/Honda again.😱😂

[NZNick]

FA, an ok driver but no JB.

[goldnsx]

Funny, Horner saying FA is likely to disstabilize any team. After he left Ferrari the team only went in one direcion: up. So not untrue what Horner claims. Now with staggering McLaren, he didn't show many highlights and can be replaced by any other driver.

[NSX 2000]

So in 2nd Practice at the Japanese GP the Torro Rosso of Brendon Hartley is only 1 Second Slower than Daniel Riccardo in the Red Bull, so do we think that if the Honda engine was in the Red Bull of Max he would get the same, better, or worse times :rolleyes:

[WhyOne?]

So in 2nd Practice at the Japanese GP the Torro Rosso of Brendon Hartley is only 1 Second Slower than Daniel Riccardo in the Red Bull, so do we think that if the Honda engine was in the Red Bull of Max he would get the same, better, or worse times :rolleyes:

Eh?

I don't understand the question Paul?!?

Comparing relative pace in practice is fraught...you don't know what programs the teams are running for a start. I imagine Honda, at their home race, will be attempting to 'look good'.

Generally, clearly Honda have made good, steady progress this year. They may now be on a part with the Renault, but still well behind Mercedes and Ferrari The oppotunity to put their engine in the back of what is probably the best chasis on the grid next year is huge. I hope it works for them, but I fear for the engine in the tight packaging Adrian Newey likes on his cars, though I'd be surprised if there isn't a good deal of prep work going on at Torro Rosso in anticipation of the Red Bull installation.

[NSX 2000]

Well Hartly and Gasly have sort of answered the question by putting their cars 6th and 7th on the grid for tomorrow’s race.
According to the press Honda have put an updated engine in their cars for this weekend, let’s hope it lasts the race and they can leapfrog Force India into 7th place.

[WhyOne?]

Well Hartly and Gasly have sort of answered the question by putting their cars 6th and 7th on the grid for tomorrow’s race.
According to the press Honda have put an updated engine in their cars for this weekend, let’s hope it lasts the race and they can leapfrog Force India into 7th place.

Yes, its the spec 3 engine they ran in practice in Russia, taking the grid penalties there rather than at Suzuka.

A good showing for the Torro Rosso's today, fingers crossed for the race.

[goldnsx]

I'v no doubt that the engine will last.

[havoc]

Funny, Horner saying FA is likely to disstabilize any team. After he left Ferrari the team only went in one direcion: up. So not untrue what Horner claims. Now with staggering McLaren, he didn't show many highlights and can be replaced by any other driver.

Reading around the topic in the past, the reason for Ferrari's sudden improvement was almost certainly a lot more to do with a change of leadership / culture than it was to do with one driver. Horner I think is just spouting off...wouldn't be the first time!

FA has had some bad press in the UK, mainly I think because he didn't get on with Hamilton at Mclaren and there were sizeable question-marks over team priorities when he (not unfairly) probably should have been the #1 driver.

[goldnsx]

The newest rumor is that Honda is not willing to supply a team in the US series where FA is driving. But all top teams in the US have Honda engines. This would mean no top team for FA.

No points for Toro Rosso today...

[WhyOne?]

The engine ran in both cars for the full race distance, which whilst on one hand is encouraging, on the other I cannot help but feel, over four and a half years into this latest F1 project, battling not to be the worst engine in the series is not great.

I see Honda's biggest opportunity to be when the engine regs change for the 2021-22 season.