Is “THNOC” losing its way?

[Dragonlady]

Ok so I have been reading the posts and emails that have been going around on the Spa 24 hr race Invitation, that was posted on the forum, and have to say how saddened I am by what is going on.

i was one of the advocates of the THNOC when it first came into being, and I would like to remind people why it was created. The creation of the THNOC was in response to Silverstone Classic requiring insurance for the members who stand at the event. Now to date this is the only event that I aware of that has this requirement. To Provide some benefit to members any Honda events to which the NSXCB members where invited to attend would only be advertised in THNOC.

The aim of THNOC was to cover the cost and not to make any profit, however at last years AGMs meeting it was announced that the club was over £400 in credit after paying for insurance, admin etc. So I was shocked to hear that the THNOC was putting up the fees this year when clearly there was no need to do so.

Now reading through the communication it appears that the 24hr Spa event is not be run by Honda, but rather an independent company who has extended the invitation to all NSX owners in all NSX forums, this is not an exclusive NSXCB event. Therefore I fail to understand the exclusivity that means this event is only available on NSXCB to those members on THNOC, the invitation is for all NSX drivers.

So please can someone explain to me why it is not the main club forum for all members?

Regards

Sharon

[havoc]

I'll first address the finances.

The membership fee was initially (2015) set at a level which we felt would cover the PLI fee and leave a little to spare (we can't have it the other way around as who would you ask to subsidise the PLI for everyone else?!?).

We made a healthy surplus in 2015, a small one in 2016 and barely broke-even in 2017 - we were seeing fewer and fewer people bothering to be members, for whatever reason (presumably because they didn't want to go to the SSC so saw no benefit to themselves from joining).

The accounts presented also didn't account for the IT costs Geoff had incurred as he was late pulling them together and submitting them, so that £400+ is an overstatement - if we accounted for those properly then the only year the Club would have made any notable surplus is 2015, the first year when everyone signed-up to go to the 25th Anniversary event at the SSC.

So at the 2017 AGM the decision was made to increase the membership fee - BY those people at the AGM, not by those of us running the Club. Note that at £25 a year, including Platinum membership to NSXCB (a £10 cost) it's lower than most other clubs. That decision was made because we were seeing year-on-year increases in the PLI premium and year-on-year decreases in the number of members - until Mike (in his own time) shopped around and negotiated a significant discount this year, we were facing a near wipe-out of our reserves in 2018 due to declining membership (22 this year, vs 65 in 2015!).



Ref the Spa event, I'll let Mike share further details but my understanding is:-
- the invitation came from Honda themselves (they subcon all their events management out, as do a lot of car companies - nothing to read into that Sharon) and it came into THNOC not NSXCB.
- Here in the UK NSXCB, as I understand it, has never acted as a formal club nor liaised with HUK - that's been done offline by Mike for the SSC marquee, and then subsequently by THNOC, who are an official club.
- In Europe Bas and Dimer haven't had the legal requirement to set-up an official club (but have spoken to us about the pro's and con's of such), but HAVE fostered very close relationships with Honda Europe. So they are the face of NSX owners as far as HE are concerned...


...so I'm sort of wondering why you're so upset.
- The Club ISN'T making a profit - it's got a modest surplus (try looking at other Club accounts!) against future 'rainy days' (e.g. withdrawal of the Honda marquee) or against anything else that the members decide they'd like to pursue. We CANNOT run a deficit - if we do the Club winds up and we can no longer attend SSC as a Club.
- The only people in the UK putting their hands in their pockets to support the cause of the NSX are those signing-up to THNOC and arguably Paul (Senninha / ForumAdmin here). NSXCB Platinum membership doesn't count really as that's a 'pay to advertise' fee and a contribution towards Paul's costs of running this site.
- The only people in the UK actively working to support the cause are Paul, Simon and Kaz on here, and the THNOC committee - none of whom receive any pay and not a lot of thanks for the time they put in.

[Dragonlady]

Havoc in the AGM a declaration of £400 was made as the surplus, are you now saying that has been wiped out by IT costs, surely not. Additionally whilst THNOC is a low membership charge when compared to others, there is a reason for that, other car clubs provide members with more benefits than just insurance cover for SSC. Not that is a problem THNOC is a small club but you cannot compare your fees with those of other clubs.

So lets get to the reason why I am so upset....

The invitation to the 24 hour spa event was being made to ALL NSX drivers, in ALL car clubs. So I fail to understand why that is interpreted as exclusive to THNOC car members only. Please can someone advise where in the invitation it says THNOC members only?

[havoc]

£400 - no, of course not, but my point is we made a c.£100 surplus in year-2 BEFORE IT costs, and £Nil (effectively) in year-3 BEFORE IT costs. My main point though is that there's a difference between profit and surplus - a sensibly-managed club WILL keep a reasonable surplus behind as otherwise it can't meet its bills and effectively ceases to function*. Mike, Kaz and I have always said that we'll park that surplus and only spend it if the Club as a whole agree there's something we need to spend it on.

A company will make a profit for the owners to do what they want with - rather different.


Invitation - I've not seen the exact wording, so if you can post it up that'd help...




* I'd appreciate it if you didn't try to tell me how to do my job, nor throw random 'facts' around without context!

[sorepaws]

Havoc in the AGM a declaration of £400 was made as the surplus, are you now saying that has been wiped out by IT costs, surely not. Additionally whilst THNOC is a low membership charge when compared to others, there is a reason for that, other car clubs provide members with more benefits than just insurance cover for SSC. Not that is a problem THNOC is a small club but you cannot compare your fees with those of other clubs.

So lets get to the reason why I am so upset....

The invitation to the 24 hour spa event was being made to ALL NSX drivers, in ALL car clubs. So I fail to understand why that is interpreted as exclusive to THNOC car members only. Please can someone advise where in the invitation it says THNOC members only?

Sharon, I understand your comments, and it was in the spirit of offering the members some benefit that this was done. If you or anyone else want to try and get support from Honda then please do so. The decision to increase the membership fee was made against my recommendation, however those at the meeting made the decision. So in trying to give members a benefit I have upset those that did not choose to renew. I also recall that you decided not to attend the AGM, where you could have made a difference.
In some respects this is like doing the lottery for years, not winning anything so deciding not to buy a ticket, then your number comes up. We all make choices, and there are consequences.
Honda PR have already contacted other NSX owner clubs, how those clubs decide to proceed is their decision. The invitation from Honda was sent to me in the capacity of an officer of The Honda NSX Owners Club.
I know you will not like my reply, so join the owners club, you are more than welcome to take over from me.

[Dragonlady]

£400 - no, of course not, but my point is we made a c.£100 surplus in year-2 BEFORE IT costs, and £Nil (effectively) in year-3 BEFORE IT costs. My main point though is that there's a difference between profit and surplus - a sensibly-managed club WILL keep a reasonable surplus behind as otherwise it can't meet its bills and effectively ceases to function*. Mike, Kaz and I have always said that we'll park that surplus and only spend it if the Club as a whole agree there's something we need to spend it on.

A company will make a profit for the owners to do what they want with - rather different.


Invitation - I've not seen the exact wording, so if you can post it up that'd help...




* I'd appreciate it if you didn't try to tell me how to do my job, nor throw random 'facts' around without context!

Invitation taken from their terms and conditions "

Eligibility:
Subject to these terms and conditions, the Event is open to all Honda NSX owners aged 18 or over, excluding employees of Honda Motor Europe Limited and their immediate families, their agents or anyone professionally associated with this promotion."

[sorepaws]

Invitation taken from their terms and conditions "

Eligibility:
Subject to these terms and conditions, the Event is open to all Honda NSX owners aged 18 or over, excluding employees of Honda Motor Europe Limited and their immediate families, their agents or anyone professionally associated with this promotion."


Yes these are the eligibilty terms - HOWEVER - the invitation was sent to the Officers of The Honda NSX Owners Club - not the NSXCB - I replied to a message from Ian inviting you to join and then be part of this.
Does this mean that it could not be opened up? No it doesn't but it seems fair - especially considering your comment about providing a benefit to members to give them the opportunity first. You can't have it both ways, if we don't provide a benefit you complain, when we do you don't like it - Please tell me what we are doing that is so wrong.
In a different world where the Forum and the Club website were totally seperate this would not be a discussion.
I understand you are upset, but really why? I have done exactly what you wanted me to do, after our conversation at the SSC last year.

[Dragonlady]

I think I need to say something and get some things straight.

First, Havoc, taken from your first post " The only people in the UK putting their hands in their pockets to support the cause of the NSX are those signing-up to THNOC and arguably Paul (Senninha / ForumAdmin here). NSXCB Platinum membership doesn't count really as that's a 'pay to advertise' fee and a contribution towards Paul's costs of running this site.
- The only people in the UK actively working to support the cause are Paul, Simon and Kaz on here, and the THNOC committee - none of whom receive any pay and not a lot of thanks for the time they put in."

As you said to Sharon, be careful about your facts/statements.

Secondly, please correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't THNOC set up in response to SSC requiring PLI and that the paying members to the THNOC would only gain access to the threads to get details of discount codes for said event and access to stand on the club stand?

Thirdly, I'm not interested in the finances of the club but am more than happy to pay for Platinum membership to help support the running of the site and for all the great advice and help from other members.

Fourth, with the Spa Experience event, Redwing Media have contacted Mike because he has always been the point of contact even before THNOC was formed. They have given an open invite to all NSX owners to attend upto 50 cars. So why is it not in the 2018 events thread for all MEMBERS of NSXCB (the original club, which still exists) to see. If THNOC was never formed due to SSC it would be there. So please explain why only 22 members of NSXCB get to choose weather to go or not.

The reason this has all come about is that due to an admin error I got to see the details of this event. and the reason for not joining THNOC this year is that we have been to SSC for the past 8 years running and are going to give it a miss for a few years, so can't see the point of paying £25 for PLI for something we are not going to see.

I have contacted Redwing Media myself and have been informed its open to all NSX owners. I have paid my money and am looking forward to the event.

Ian

[lotusolly]

I can see the point of view from both sides of this and both sides have their legitimate arguments, but I suggest it may be better to look at a bigger picture for THNOC.

I think that for an event offered with limited tickets it is acceptable to offer these to the people who provide the most support for the club first (THNOC) and this also offers an additional incentive rather than just the SSC for people to join THNOC. This in turn may increase membership and reduce the membership costs back to the earlier days as the costs seem to be fixed regardless of membership numbers.

As has already been said, this is not a commercial club but one that is highly acclaimed amongst other forums as a genuine enthusiasts club with a friendly atmosphere and a wealth of information, readily willing to assist other members. My personal feeling is, that to not at some point offer the opportunity to attend the Spa 24 Hrs to all owners is going against this nature.

Honda are offering 50 places which is near enough to the maximum number of NSX's ever gathered together in Europe. There may be more demand with the launch of the NC1 and especially if dealers may offer some tickets as incentives but filling all 50 spaces is certainly not a given. Members often complain about a lack of support from Honda but if all the spaces aren't filled then their inclination for future offerings is going to be reduced, but if all spaces are filled and the event a success then they may be more forthcoming.

Honda have offered this opportunity as a marketing exercise and the event details do state that this is an event for any NSX owner. Although the invitation has come through THNOC as this is Honda's contact to the club, I would be very surprised if their intention was not to reach the most NSX owners in the UK as possible and if such, then I feel that THNOC should be doing their best to facilitate this.


Not wishing to step on anyone's toes and I certainly do not have the spare time to put in the effort that the committee members generously do but I feel this is drifting from the spirit of the club.


Olly

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

For your reference with my comment at the top; http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.php?15373-Spa-24hr-GT-race-meeting-offer-&%23128526;&p=127025#post127025

Kaz

[Senninha]

Hello All,

There are many points raised and discussed, some of which I may be able to assist/clarify, others about which I would like to know more, and some upon which I have and will retain a personal opinion to myself ... these are all, IMO, best discussed face to face so that’s something that needs to be arranged.

I’m also saddened to hear one of our friends may not be in good health at present so will wait to hear when this situation is resolved.

In the meantime, the sun is shining so I don’t about you boys and girls, but me and the NSX are going for some fun!

regards, Paul

[britlude]

Holy thread resurrection, Batman!!! Lol

[Senninha]

Holy thread resurrection, Batman!!! Lol

LoL ... clearly wasn’t paying attention this morning waiting for the good lady ... oh,well guess this is pretty much resolved then ;) ... and myself and Havoc will set out the exchanges between ‘groups’ of owners ...