Drive Axle Removal and Overhaul

[Heineken]

During this year's oil change I made an unpleasant observation, grease leaking from the (gear-box side) boots of both drive shafts.

13752

The coffee like colour is caused by the grease inside the joint chemically breaking down. As all grease is technically saponified oil it either dries into a more and more dense substance or liquifies back into oil (which is the case here). Kaz (http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/blog.php?1811) provides an excellent write-up (http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.php?6504-Driveshaft-refurbishment&p=59313#post59313) on how to open the joints (including inside the rollers) and replace the old grease.

In my case all boots still looked OK but I was not able to obtain the correct (yellow) Honda grease for a simple exchange. Sending the drive axles to AS Motorsports (http://as-motorsport.com/) failed due to the tremendous shipping and insurance costs. Replacement axles were unavailable and/or expensive/unreliable.

An order for four rebuild-kits with the part number 42017-SL0-000 was made and arrived safely after some shipping issues. Not exactly a cheap option (59 Euro each) but surely the safest road to take. Every pack comes with the following parts:

One boot
Two double-loop boot bands
~280 g of CV joint grease
Two set rings for the tripod
One set ring for the drive axle
One central wheel locking nut


13753

Getting the drive shafts out of the car was not as easy as anticipated with the first hurdle being the central wheel nut. A friend of a friend (owner of an S2000) was aware of the problem and provided me with a 3/4" tool and a two-meter extension. All other options had not worked for him.

13754

After jacking up the car, un-staking the nut and attaching the tool it opened with surprising little effort (on the left side, that is).
The right side needed myself standing on the extension to make it move but finally opened, too (with a loud knocking sound).

13755

Afterwards, instead of using a puller (which I did not have access to) the nut was re-attached upside down and a hammer used to get the drive shaft moving inside the wheel bearing (which did not need much force).

Further removal of the axles is described in the repair manual but be aware that the procedure changed. Initially the lower arm was separated at the ball joint. This is no longer recommended and the lower arm is now detached from the other end by removal of the camber adjustment bolt (carefully mark it's setting unless you plan to have your suspension adjusted) and the second bolt at the chassis.

According to NSX Prime, the upper arm may not be detached from the wheel bearing as it seems to be spring loaded and extremely difficult to re-attach.

My personal preferred order of removal is as follows:

U-shaped bar under the engine
Damper bolt
Stabilizer connection
Lower arm (gearbox side)
Tied rod (gearbox side)


Now the axle can be pulled out of the wheel bearing by lifting the bearing upwards and simultaneously pulling the axle. A job best done with two people but I was missing that luxury. Note that the axle's length is spring loaded so try to keep it compressed with working.

The worst part is yet to come which is the removal of the axle from the gear box. As this is an AT vehicle, the ATF needs to be drained before as it gets messy otherwise. Reason for the upcoming trouble is the set ring on the axle. It's there to avoid horizontal movement of the axle while driving. Pulling the axle out of the gearbox is the ultimate horizontal movement and it's resisting it quite well.

13756

According to NSX Prime the way to go is using a pry-bar and rotating the axle in case it's not moving. The target is to get the set ring to settle evenly on the axle which reduces the force necessary to push the axle out. I can confirm that once the sweet spot is found the axle drops out with "almost ridiculous low effort". Note that the set ring on the right hand side is not located on the axle but on the intermediate shaft towards the gear box.

Next step is to service the drive axles themselves. It's highly recommended to have a vice available as most of the work is done with the drive shaft upright.
At first remove the boot bands and slide the boot down the drive shaft. Depending on the remaining viscosity of the grease this can be a messy thing to do.
The wheel-side axle cup is spring loaded and secured by a large metal ring, typically hidden in the grease:

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The grease was not yet degraded to the point where is runs away on its own and still stayed at it's place. Therefore I decided to keep the roller bearings closed which saves a lot of effort compared to rebuilding them.
Before removing the axle cup, each roller's position needs to be marked, which was done using an oil resistant marker (lacquer-based):

13758

After lifting the axle cup, each roller is marked (don't mix up top and bottom) by cleaning the marking area with parts cleaner (just wipe the grease of, do not contaminate the bearings with parts cleaner). The marker needs time to dry and the remaining grease is removed at a later time.

13759

Corresponding marks are needed on the Tripod as well as where the tripod connects to the drive shaft. If these marks are forgotten it's not that much of a deal as all that's necessary is a 60° offset between the two spiders. This can be accomplished by putting one spider on the shaft and resting two of it's fingers on the work table. Now the second spider's single finger needs to point 90° towards the table and we are fine.

13760

The tripod is held in place by two set rings who need to be removed. A special set of pliers (Knipex 45 21 200 (https://www.knipex.de/index.php?id=1216&L=0&page=art_detail&parentID=1365&groupID=1454&artID=1721)) can be helpful to accomplish this task. Bot set rings are replaced upon re-assembly.
Wiping and removing all the grease is quite a task. I guess 2-3 rolls of toilet paper were used overall. Just remember not to soak in or spray the roller bearings with parts cleaner as it would void the lubrication inside (by removing the grease) and cause damage later.

After everything is clean, new grease is added to the axle cups according to the service manual (~175 g at the wheel and ~125 g at the gear box side):

13761

Now we cover the end of the drive shaft with PVC tape and slide the new boots over. Next we need to attach the bottom set ring of the spider, put the spider on (note the 60° offset between the two spiders on the shaft as mentioned above) and put the second set ring on. In case of my drive shafts the spiders went on and off without any other tools (but no extensive play) but your mileage might vary.

-- to be continued on the next reply (due to picture limit) --

[Heineken]

After greasing and attaching the rollers to the spider the axle cup can be put on. Don't push it all the way down yet (as the grease would squirt out), just enough to re-attach the large clip securing the rollers inside the cup. Now the boot is pulled up and attached to the axle cup.

The double loop band is wound around twice, every time through the locking section. To secure it, a special tool is needed (for example Laser Tools 2916 (https://www.lasertools.co.uk/product/2916)).
The tool is used to tighten the band just as far as to remove any slack. Now mark the position with a felt pen and tighten it a further 10-14 mm.

13762

Now the tool is bend to the side and the band cut. The remaining slack is trimmed back to ~10 mm. The secure latch is treated with a punch and hammer before the remainder of the band is folding back onto the secure latch. Finalize it by using a small hammer (to flatten everything).

After these steps are done on both ends, the length of the drive axles need to be adjusted (according to the service manual) and the boots vented. This tasks needs a surprising amount of force (as we are compressing the spring in the wheel-side axle cup) and is probably performed best using a self-built wooden frame (or similar). After setting the correct length and purging all air from the boot the inner band is attached, the same way as the outer one.

13763

Don't forget to attach the new set ring to the left side drive axle and on the right side intermediate shaft before heading to the next step.

Re-installing the drive axles into the vehicle was more difficult than initially thought. As a first step they are installed at the wheel side and secured with the new central wheel nut (just hand-tight). Then the wheel bearing is lifted up to slide the other end into the gear box. Unfortunately, as the axles are spring loaded, I was constantly struggling between these two objectives but somehow managed it without a second person's help.
Pushing the axle past the set ring is quite easy though, just push at the wheel bearing and everything locks into place.

Now all suspension parts need to be re-assembled.
From my experience, the following order worked best:


Damper
Lower arm
Tie rod
Stabilizer bar connection
U-shaped bar under the engine


13764

Please ensure the camber adjustment bolt is set according to the marks put before disassembly.

Note that all rubber bushing suspension bolts have to be tightened while the car is resting on its wheels. If they would be tightened while the car is on the lift, the rubber would be twisted when off the lift and their lifetime unnecessarily shortened. My approach to this was not the best so it's not mentioned but I'm explaining how it should be done: Lower the car onto a set of spare tires on all four wheels and then tighten the bolts :rolleyes:

Now the the central nut needs to be tightened to 330 Nm and staked to ensure it won't get loose. Next re-fill the transmission and we are ready to go.
The quick check after a short test drive did not show any issues or leaks so hopefully everything is fine for the next 22 years to come.

13765

[Silver Surfer]

Great write up...looks like a lot of work if steps are not followed.

Cheers

SS

[Heineken]

Thank you very much :)
It took about four weeks from spotting the problem to being back on the road again. Hopefully only one such issue comes up every year ..

[Pride]

http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/images/icons/icon3.png Drive Axle Removal and Overhaul
During this year's oil change I made an unpleasant observation, grease leaking from the (gear-box side) boots of both drive shafts.”


I’ve noticed this on my car for a good few years now but each year I just give it a good old wipe down with a old rag and then enjoy my ride for another year. 😂 Can’t be doing with all that. 😉

Well done though Heineken on such a detailed write up. 👍
You deserve a good drink after that. 🍺

[Hagasan]

I'm not sure if Carlsberg did axle overhaul write-ups they'd be the best in the world ��? Great write up Heineken.. Good work on your car..

[Heineken]

http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/images/icons/icon3.png Drive Axle Removal and Overhaul


During this year's oil change I made an unpleasant observation, grease leaking from the (gear-box side) boots of both drive shafts.”


I’ve noticed this on my car for a good few years now but each year I just give it a good old wipe down with a old rag and then enjoy my ride for another year.  Can’t be doing with all that. 

Well done though Heineken on such a detailed write up. 
You deserve a good drink after that. 



Thanks again. It seems I simply enjoy writing these.
If it's helping anybody out there I'm more than happy :)

[Heineken]

I'm not sure if Carlsberg did axle overhaul write-ups they'd be the best in the world ��? Great write up Heineken.. Good work on your car..

Thanks for the positive feedback.
Since I'm not a big fan of beer myself it's hard to tell but maybe we just have wait for an owner with a matching family name to come and accept the challenge .. ;) ?

[nobby]

It was just like reading Kaz's stuff! :)

well done taking it on ... thnakfully Kaz done the needful on mine during his refresh on mine

[austrian type-r]

My experience is 1-2 out of 6 bearings have wear. When I overhaul axles, I always disamble the bearings like I saw on KAZ posts a few years back. The surface area is rough on some spots, like 80 degrees from 360 degrees. The oem grease is known not to be the best, so I use a better brand.

http://nsx-parts.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/57503246_1365250616947973_2267205900030705664_o.jp g

http://nsx-parts.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/57503220_1365250646947970_5919353596981280768_n.jp g

[Heineken]

The OEM grease lasted for >20 years which is more than fine for me.
Regarding replacement grease there a different types of grease for inner and outer joints, according to GKN


I can only add that another engineer from GKN responded by saying that, "...molybdenum disulphide can clog the spaces between needle bearings and the spaces between the needle bearings and the inner surface of the outer races."

GKN are very clear in their literature to state that cv joint grease - molybdenum type - is not to be used in tripod/plunge bearings, and, that tripod/plunge bearing grease not be used in cv joints.

MD may be fine for a while lubricating the tripod bearing...it may work for a long time under certain conditions, as a few have pointed out. I have no experience here and only bring information from a respected company who developed their own lubricants to work with their own products, new and aftermarket.


From: https://www.saabcentral.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-222379.html

Just as a background why it seems to be reasonable going with the Honda recommended grease.

[austrian type-r]

How can you tell it lasted well for 20 years? I dont feel it lasted that long, thats maybe the reason inside the bearing are spots of wear as well as on the tripod. It has been discussed many times that the oem grease is not lasting 20 years and its a good idea to use a better one or you change it more often. But I guess its an endless discussion like with engine oil. KAZ Quote: As seen on many UK based NSX, the drive shaft grease was already broken down and turned into ‘melted coffee ice cream’ resulting in lack of lubrication under heavy load.

I dismanteld for sure 20 drive shafts and all had a coffee brown cream.

BTW: The same yellow grease is used on Honda ITR and many other Hondas too. So the NSX grease is not something special. There is only one part number for all 4 boot kits. So there is the same oem grease on all 4 CV joints. Just the amount is different to put in. Look the service manual. BTW: Newest part number for all 4 boots: 42017-SL0-020 and this includes the same grease bottle with yellow grease inside. IT replaced the older numbers 42017-SL0-000 and 42017-SL0-010. I dont know whats the difference is, maybe a change in the metall band, other material of the boots, etc?

Every car manufacturer recommends their own oil, grease things. This must not mean its the best. ;) .

[Heineken]

My NSX was built in 1997 and the greases started to brake down recently (no melted coffee ice cream yet), so in my case it lasted for 20 years. Grease is oil trapped in metal soap (in our case, Lithium soap) who's property is breaking down over time, temperature as well as load so everybody's mileage (no pun intended) will vary, of course.

The Honda grease is nothing NSX specific, and that's beyond my point. It's probably regular EP2 Lithium grease but the important thing is that it's without MOS² (molybdenum disulphide) mixed in. MOS² is a solid, dark grey substance (a powder) with a typical particle size of 6 um which (not necessarily) cancause problems in tripod needle bearings. That's why GKN is not recommending it and here is some more information to back that up:


Technical papers exist which say it is a fact, not fallacy that MoS2 is not recommended for needle bearings.

And I believe the evidence of my own eyes in that years ago I saw many more needle bearing failures which involved the use of MoS2, and that now that I do not use it in needle bearings, I haven't had a single failure. MoS2 will never see any of my u-joint spiders.

My trucks require MoS2 in the propeller shaft splines, but specifically warn against it in the u-joint spiders, and I adhere to this.



From: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1833288

When looking at regular Honda FWD drive shafts these use (yellow) grease without MOS² at the tripod and (black) MOS² grease at the CV joints. This matches the technical advice from GKN as well as other sources and sounds sensible to me. Therefore I'll keep it that way. Everybody is free to use whatever they want, of course. It's their car after all :D

PS: Regarding the part numbers, the metal bands surely changed, other items I don't know.

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Exactly the point as Heineken stated.
NSX uses roller type joint (tripod) on both the inner and outer joints, unlike the ordinary production cars with coupling style joint (forgot that long complicated name....).

Honda specifies the yellow grease (U131-15, 08798-9003) to be used for all inner joints and for any roller type joints used on the outboard side.
If you look at the parts label carefully, it even states as 'CV JOINT GREASE INBOARD'.

Honda specifies the outboard grease in black colour (08798-9007) for other models and specifically states NOT to be used on the inboard.


Addition to using the correct and suitable spec grease at each joints, one of the most important thing is adjusting the amount of air inside the boot.
Roller type joint can get really hot and due to the geometry of suspension parts, the driveshaft is one of the weakest point on our NSX.
If you can imagine how the joint moves with changes in geometry, you will understand how the boot changes its shape and the reason why it becomes the weak point.
Among the people autocrossing their cars, it is common to use venting method at the boot.


If you change the rideheight or use aggressive alignment, it will shorten the life of grease.
On several NSX with extreme lower rideheight or wide tyre with massive negative camber at the rear, I found cracked roller and even the joint was damaged.
If doing anything beyond the design spec, please check first before applying.


-020 includes the hazard statements document required by the local regulation in some of the countries, just like the one included in the brake caliper repair kit.


Kaz

[goldnsx]

If you have an EU model you should (well, could) reuse the metal clamps as there's no tools needed for them. The boot sets you can get form the US need the bloody tool.

[Heineken]

These kits were from Adnan so I don't know whether it's the US or the any other version.
Just checked my metal scrap bin and the old ones are still there. Out of your experience, do you think it would be reasonable to keep them?

PS: Just noticed my subscription ran out, now it's renewed :)

[goldnsx]

I've reused the old ones. If your old ones don't need a tool I'd keep them.

[austrian type-r]

I always use aftermarket straps, those are self-secured like such from Berner: https://shop.berner.eu/de-de/p/139256-metallband-edelstahl-antimagnetisch-46-mm-selbst-arretierend.html?article_id=139259

very nice: you can use this for X-ray too. LOOOL
Bei starken chemischen Einwirkungen und radioaktiven Strahlungen

To my understanding the wear of the grease and the bearings must be much higher on FWD cars at the outer joints, cause it can move way more than a joint in a non turnable wheel?

[UnhuZ]

Hi,

i still didn't understood how to properly vent the boot... i will refresh mine, i already have boot kits from US.

Thanks,
Nuno

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Don't know what EU or US boot bands are as they are all the same and made/sourced in Japan.

Honda did use the ear-clip boot band later for the replacement drive shaft for our NSX but not sure this type was fitted to the NSX during the production years.
I do know S2000 left the factory with the combination of ear clip style as well as the double loop one.




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This is the replacement driveshaft (upper one) I got in 2007 and you can see the ear clip band.



If you order -020, regardless of where you sourced it from, it will be the double loop stainless band.
In fact, Honda changed to this style not just for NSX but also for majority of its models because it can apply enough tension at the boot end even after many years.


If you want, you can order just the OEM double loop band as well.







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Majority of NSX left the factory with the ancient classic design band like this.

Don't bother re-using this style.

It can't apply enough pressure once the boot took set where the band sat and heat cycled.
Sooner or later, it will start leaking the grease and this was the reason why Honda moved to a different band design.

If you followed the instruction on how to install the double loop style properly, should last for years even after the grease started breaking down.




The continuous venting method is not required for street driving or occasional track day usage.

It's more for the auto-x or figure of '8' practice session where you continuously force the drive shaft to generate high heat.

Still, you can use the same method during the overhaul process.
Just follow the workshop manual.




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I normally install the longer band first.

When installing the shorter one, insert the hard plastic tube at the boot exit.
You can use the tube that you can find on the spray nozzle, etc.
Just needs something that won't squash under the band tension.
Install the shorter double loop band as per instruction without removing the plastic tube.

Setup the bench so that you can adjust the entire driveshaft as well as the outboard joint/boot assy to the specified length.
Adjust both the inboard and outboard boots at about the halfway between the full compression and extension then just pull out the plastic tube from both boots.


If auto-xing, just cut the plastic tube to much shorter length before inserting under the boot exit and leave it there.
It can continuously vent the air to/from the outside.
It will help in reducing the grease temperature to certain level during the excessive movement of the drive shaft during auto-xing.


Kaz

[goldnsx]

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Majority of NSX left the factory with the ancient classic design band like this.

Don't bother re-using this style.

It can't apply enough pressure once the boot took set where the band sat and heat cycled.
Sooner or later, it will start leaking the grease and this was the reason why Honda moved to a different band design.

If you followed the instruction on how to install the double loop style properly, should last for years even after the grease started breaking down.
I've reused that kind of style boot bands and they are just fine since more than 10 years. If the grease breaks down over time it's ok for me to have a sign or a leaking boot to overhaul them again every 15 years or so.

[Heineken]

Nevertheless very interesting information on the different boot band types and proper venting.
@UnhuZ (http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/member.php?2003-UnhuZ): If you are unsure you can do one axle first then compare the old with the new one regarding air in the boots when compressing them.