Front bumper removal question

[WhyOne?]

Long time no post!

I hope everyone has been keeping safe, well and sane?

This coming Monday my car is having its much delayed a/c overhaul, which includes new condensers. This of course involves removing the front bumper - I have the relevant service manual page (and a helpful YouTube video) but fog lights are not included on the diagram.

Does anyone know if these have to be removed separately from the bumper or can they be left in place and just the cables disconnecting before the bumper is lifted away from the car?

Many thanks.

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Quite busy at the moment so just a quick one.
You must remove the fog light unit.
It's held with just one bolt at the outboard body.

The inboard side has a flat protrude section from the fog light housing and it's inserted into the slit on the front bumper lower skirt.
When removing the front bumper, you need to lift it up slightly and then pull towards your body.

Good luck with the alignment of the front bumper on installation.
Each NSX has different number of shim for alignment purpose and you need to adjust the torque figure to get the best result.
For this reason, it's my own policy not to touch the front bumper unless 100% have to.

Be careful with the fitting at the condenser.
As you are replacing the condenser itself, in better position but these are the worst fittings to deal with as they are exposed to all sorts of debris due to being at the front lower section close to the road surface and heat cycled for years.
The fitting coupler/hex is on the pipe side so be careful.

Kaz

[WhyOne?]

Hi Kaz and thank you for your comprehensive and helpful advice.

I shall just be assisting the a/c specialist but I will pass on all of your advice - we'd rather not have to take the bumper off but it's the only option to get the a/c up and running again unfortunately.

[duncan]

As you’re replacing the condensors you will need to remove the bumper.
I’d suggest start by removing both parts of each front wheel liners in the wheel arches. Don’t bother with OEM Honda rivets but get generic ones from eBay in bulk, allow for serious breakage. The cross point screw heads on outer lip of the liners only need loosening and the liner pushing in and away from the lip.
With the liners removed, undo the 2 nuts and 1 transverse bolt (10mm) (per side) holding the front and side of the bumper.
The spire nuts holding the lip in place could be a real pain as you risk shredding up plastic they are retained on, from memory, 1 in the centre of the radiator duct, 4 in in the air dam and another 2 that are afixed to 2 downstands.
Unplug the external air temp sensor, you probably can’t unplug the horns yet.
Remove the front fog lamps.
Remove the front combination lamps, a long Philips screw driver through the access slot to back-screw the single retaining self tapping screw.
Don’t touch the 2x2 vertical bolts ahead of the top radiator tank, don’t touch the vertical black plastic screws in the nose opening.
The 6 main holding bolts can now be removed.
The bumper is supported on a pair of clips so needs to be lifted and brought forward, a second pair of hands is now useful as the following need to be unclipped whilst semi supporting the bumper: electrical plugs to the horns and washer bottle, plastic water hose to the washer bottle. Washer fluid will run everywhere.
If you’re ‘just’ replacing the consendsors the centre radiator shroud can stay in place, if the cross pipework is being replaced then the shroud should be unriveted and wiggled out.

[WhyOne?]

Many thanks for the information, tips and advice Duncan, greatly appreciated.

Condensers and pipework are being replaced - seems silly not to replace the whole lot as it's such a mission to get in there! Only one of the condensers is leaking, but both being replaced.

As a matter of interest, how difficult was it to get the bumper aligned once you re-fitted?

[NSXGB]

Hi Ian...is this a mobile guy you are using that you'd would recommend?

[WhyOne?]

Hi Simon.

Yes, PM me if you want to know details.

He works on a lot of quite exotic cars as well as more routine stuff.

He first looked at Y1 over a year ago and following this I picked up the condensers in the States last year. Events, including CV-19 conspired against him getting to my car earlier, but we are meeting tomorrow to give it a go! The place I store my car has a workshop with a lift so heading over there first thing.

Sorting the a/c shouldn't be a problem as long as we can persuade the bumper to come off!

Fingers crossed!

[duncan]

To realign the bumper.
As the bumper cover is separate from the crash frame and is flexible, I didn’t get a lot of joy trying to wiggle the complete unit about before clamping up with the 6 main fixings, obviously it needs to be the fist pass but it’s difficult to lift accurately as the cover flexes. I found the two nuts in the far front of the wheel well made more difference as they pull the front into the wings. It might be worth trying to mark around these nuts before the front end is dis-assembled to give register marks to aim at. In the end I backed off the 2 pairs of vertical bolts to the front of the top radiator tank and shimmed out the cover using a couple of stock washers. By doing so I got a good line between the bumper and bonnet.
Last year I replaced both condensers, one went OK, the other I messed up completely as (unbeknown to me) the sleeve nuts had previously been damaged and in fitting them wrecked both of the LH condenser’s threads. I tried a work round by having replacement AN hydraulic fittings welded onto the condenser, followed by JB Weld to try to recover a leak in the welding.
Almost worked but not quite, this year I had the joy of repeating the process. . . (For sale, shortly, a year old LH condenser, almost OEM!)
The sleeve nuts are like brake line nuts, either they go on and can be run up finger tight or any resistance and they’re not on straight so try and try again. I used PAG oil as a lubricant on the thread to compliment the oil on the rubber seals. The sleeve nuts on the cross pipes are bit like Citroen brake pipes with a belling in the line that the nut tightens against, any over torquing will crush the section. The works manual page 22-65 gives a torque of AN6 fittings 14Nm, AN8 fittings 23Nm.
If it’s more convenient for you, the bumper and inner arch liners can all be replaced before pressure testing and re-gassing as all of the condenser and drier nuts are accessible in situ.

[WhyOne?]

Good afternoon all.

Does anyone know the spec for the bolt in the image below please? It is underneath the car and central to the number plate - this was missing from my car when we removed the bumper yesterday and I'd like to source a replacement.

[Silver Surfer]

No images attached Ian.

SS

[WhyOne?]

No images attached Ian.

SS

That's really not very helpful of me...thank you SS!

This one:
13955

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3f3WfJzgUSI39y7heJtQRfotuO81lFjJiM-AjgqkTuMBtAgtGDw0qIR-ZznoLqQ7PQeODS516jB_fWsARqiXiD7XYwcbfopnYbNWTdvHWh qKy3rLeXj5jKcrBvGHNGchWoKH2qQ84HX_FXfwQ8uv-qRyQ=w1080-h608-no?authuser=0
That's the holder for the front end of the radiator air duct (red circle) to the front bumper lower skirt.





https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3c4NhaIVPkhoW8S0yo7If5d2EQyo_dFXnuompO0tYknvuyQfXs b7uhBCp8OC_kEWm9kUnSTWdyaEYl1qDq2Q1T3rOeMkAtJvP2Mt mbdbZIxaD2hwD95SbhvXiY7t6Ofap1wZEQJtnetq6T2cKMD3va Syw=w1080-h810-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3ecl28rOIdfaD32i2yuIOT1sgaF-ZnhYJW4r9vQ2jusbpjz8LLNYTZE1TYED4DLR7AZVQvAmo0HSaR nqmenheV5bvSOS_y15RKgIwqfgsx4YaodeHo76g8vgrwwg6Pdw f-0My0FitEG1fS59es1osccpw=w1080-h810-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3ekJdQ9vwMV5wvXWI9Ta3RXSNxbaAHwFWau2hQfyiFqD9j1WNg t0niE6lq02wnyXVFSxIISVIynGd5mYHQqPTGnuw8cHVmPas1lo Er7kGknlaYGsTIJRFz6rS5MWIzWzlw_VC0PYIb3DGW0SYB2Q2L Zgg=w1080-h810-no?authuser=0
The lower skirt/valance: blue
The duct: yellow

If using OEM, they are the same bolt and clip nut used at the front lip spoiler.
You just insert the clip nut in the red arrow direction.


However, if you look at the same parts used at the front lip spoiler, you may notice that majority of them are heavily rusted.
Over the time, they are exposed to all sorts of debris, salt, heat, etc as being so close to the road surface and easily sears off when trying to remove next time.

So, please apply some protection coating if using OEM bolt/nut or go with the aftermarket bolt + OEM clip nut or aftermarket solution for both.


Kaz

[WhyOne?]

Thanks Kaz...fantastic advice as ever.

Could you, or anyone else here, link any suitable non-oem fittings please?

[WhyOne?]

Do either of these look like they'd work please?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-x-HONDA-S2000-ETC-WING-BUMPER-BODY-UNDERTRAY-CLIPS-STAINLESS-STEEL-BOLTS-/111923320264

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-x-HONDA-S2000-PANEL-CLIPS-BODY-WING-UNDER-TRAY-CLIPS-STAINLESS-STEEL-BOLTS-/111923317127

[NSXGB]

I have some spares Ian. You could pop round tomorrow to collect if you like?



Do either of these look like they'd work please?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-x-HONDA-S2000-ETC-WING-BUMPER-BODY-UNDERTRAY-CLIPS-STAINLESS-STEEL-BOLTS-/111923320264

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-x-HONDA-S2000-PANEL-CLIPS-BODY-WING-UNDER-TRAY-CLIPS-STAINLESS-STEEL-BOLTS-/111923317127

[WhyOne?]

Hi Simon. Thars very kind - thank you.

Would 7ish tomorrow evening work ok for you?

[NSXGB]

That works for me Ian. See you then.

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Do either of these look like they'd work please?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-x-HONDA-S2000-ETC-WING-BUMPER-BODY-UNDERTRAY-CLIPS-STAINLESS-STEEL-BOLTS-/111923320264

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-x-HONDA-S2000-PANEL-CLIPS-BODY-WING-UNDER-TRAY-CLIPS-STAINLESS-STEEL-BOLTS-/111923317127
While the bolt shape is different from the OEM one, should not matter for this specific purpose.

The size of the clip and the centre of the mating thread/nut position are almost exactly the same as the OEM one.
Since the location used allows fair amount of adjustment on positioning so it should be fine.

There are lots of similar listings on ebay so I may just get hold of one and replace the ones at my front lip spoiler for testing.
Thank you for sharing.

Kaz

[WhyOne?]

Another front bumper related question if I may please?

When the bumper was removed from my car, the right side 'bumper lower extension' (71172-SL0-000) was broken - see 1st picture. Along with some a/c parts, a shiny new one arrived from Japan this morning.

However, I can't for the life of me work out how the right side extension fits to the bumper beam.

The left and right extension pieces are asymmetrical - the left side remained on the bumper (see second picture, extension lightly attached).

I imagined it would just be a simple case of attaching the right hand part on the other side....if this is the case, it should bolt into the hole I've arrowed in the 3rd picture, but the options for doing this just don't look right! (

I currently don't have access to the rest of the car for reference so any guidance would be most welcome.

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

May be able to take photo later but not now.
Hope you can understand my poor description.

The quick advice is, forget about the blue arrow (wrong for the R-side), imagine you have L-side installed as in your 2nd photo, place the R-side bracket next to it with both spring nuts at the same height and both nut positioned towards the front of the car.
In the 2nd photo, the spring nut on the L-side is inserted from the front towards the rear of the car.
In order to achieve the above condition, the R-side bracket has to be positioned in a way with its spring nut inserted from the rearend towards the front of the car, opposite to the L-side.

May look asymmetrical but they are not.

As in your 2nd photo, the opening/concaved section of the plastic bracket (hidden in this photo) is facing forward for the L-side.
However, for the R-side, it's the opposite and the opening/concaved section will face the rearend.

The L-side is fixed by the horizontal bolt screwed in from the rear to the front (as in your 2nd photo) and thus, don't forget to install it before setting the bumper beam on the body side.

If you imagine the 3rd photo was taken for the L-side, the blue arrow bolt hole position is correct for the L-side but not for the R-one.

For the R-side, the bolt hole is not at the blue arrow.
It's vertical direction from the bottom to the top at the tow hook.
In fact, just for the R-side, you can leave it on the body side and not on the bumper or not even install it until the very end.


Kaz

[WhyOne?]

Hi Kaz,

Thank you for your reply. I'm sure that your explanation is very good, but my ability to understand is less so!

If you are able to post a photo, that'd be great - there is no rush as the car isn't being put together again until the middle of next week.

I don't know whether or not it helps explain how this extension bracket sits on the car, but just in case I have posted a photo of the right side / tow bracket area of my car below.

13987

[duncan]

1398813989I don't know whether these help or not, I took two photos of the front of my car when the bumper was off, on one side the bracket must have stayed on the car and the other must have stayed on the bumper. Perhaps just fit the near side to the bumper and see where it 'lands up'. If the pictures help but you wish them a higher resolution please PM me.

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3fJhOf6R3MOPD5C5tTJVaheuj9V_i8aA0HGZpizEYE8AYPsC95 qVHpz27sUpKwtn8h1FrWPjCJIj5FhV553ek4iMolF8U1s7wqoM __XgnobMO3OLNo7DU0PfYcQMX5_Av_DCd7DkdKEMJGfPUNf6nN 5FA=w1080-h364-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3f1u1kUmTKqw6Tg2Hd220llJ3g_1kqfkseHy1eA-t5kDXEmltbL4NwLbPYmdOOCKsdAtMXT0SVycSILmb4aW7YA4rq hnhB8v3-Vkgk0m7NFG9G0ntxPVpcOHTCqs3gwzrUQMywThTsbTQ5p2XUEy mXteg=w1080-h747-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3cLiWuXWcTKsQ_GI_mTLWoLhjK0ZENQ4iVBdPlkfG6QmO3Bj88 OpYj3YoFDM-QaPdpujviJPxikvSoq1dIllK-W185LczU8BY0X9bLAONBj86b3gljfqAfwVHMwolav0XEXsmBJP LSNi0BjQkgMWWardw=w1080-h810-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3d_5_Hnk-rd4SGNsO1rKs8PYxLqofpM8YdN5W4yh9Iz2m7rMbi9iDnHEWfU fvD3gCvo2pVkcGClHKDknWZxYg99jKSdhjobsk1uHJzREoElRz-GbNXo7dbmE_P-hxrMn4mSs8GWhpthyoTdElKsQ2ETGQ=w1080-h810-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3c-FhuPQoD8bzT0kP1VruL4uqH8IbaBR93TWgyjY20glLyODxMvGo 7eMzwfmwNjgPkJnqvDFWSoHUZTUtsif6S2jYl0aesjaJtOBcwj hhja-C0nia1Wh7gx9ghImDjjpF2FbYEpW3xmi0i6gnk_tTmfsA=w108 0-h810-no?authuser=0
Photo speaks for itself.
Fortunately, photo opportunity while servicing another NSX for the owner.

As mentioned earlier in my post, for the R-side, you don't even need installing it until the very last moment.
The R-side bracket has specific recessed design enabling it to sit and wrap around the tow hook.

Kaz

[WhyOne?]

Duncan & Kaz - thank you both for your kind assistance - greatly appreciated.