latest musings in the real world nsx ownership!

[britlude]

Before covid, lockdown and all the other shinanigans I arranged to get a replacement rear garnish from Simon…. Eventually at Brands we managed to swap pennies for plastic! To say mine was tired was an understatement!
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50672699822_b2ce574497_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kcLQfj)IMG_20201107_124435 (https://flic.kr/p/2kcLQfj) by jon sutherland (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152809076@N06/), on Flickr


Chasing dampness in the car before winter gets here proper, I treated myself to new door membrane seal things. I could use a plastic sheet and some butyl tape, but I thought I’d go official and get the right item….
Had to clean the old stuff off….
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50672614946_2a835707e5_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kcLp1W)IMG_20201112_155538 (https://flic.kr/p/2kcLp1W) by jon sutherland (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152809076@N06/), on Flickr


I had hoped the new damp shields, given their price, would come ready to fit… alas not, there’s a secret adhesive required that isn’t mentioned on any parts lists, so I had to use my butyl tape. Fortunately I had some!


Taped up!
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50672615466_7f73796424_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kcLpaU)IMG_20201113_103046 (https://flic.kr/p/2kcLpaU) by jon sutherland (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152809076@N06/), on Flickr


And the overpriced (no surprise there!) damp shield fitted


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50672615366_8e48567a07_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kcLp9b)IMG_20201113_120917 (https://flic.kr/p/2kcLp9b) by jon sutherland (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152809076@N06/), on Flickr


I later added a plastic flap over the back of the speaker to deflect drips, and also over the lock mechanism, as I found if heavy rain (or a hose pipe!) water got through the handle area, dripped inside the door, landed on the lock mechanism and dripped onto the door catch, getting between the 2 seals on the door! Pointless!

[britlude]

Officially winter, the fat 5’s and winter tyres are on. They are slightly narrower and taller than OEM, matching the diameter of my 17/18 set. Don’t want the car to be effectively lowered in the winter!
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50672699492_8b988eeab3_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kcLQ9C)IMG_20201121_120703 (https://flic.kr/p/2kcLQ9C) by jon sutherland (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152809076@N06/), on Flickr


Next on the damp hunt, was the door hole edge trim on the chassis tub ( for want of a better description) getting wet at the ends. As I’d already replaced the rubber seals over the top, there was still an issue, and I was having to remove the edge trim for the time being until it could be investigated. The wet ends were not helping the dampness inside! This was manifesting itself as wet on the inside of the screen on a cold morning….. I wanted to get this sorted before the winter really kicks in, as scraping ice off the outside AND the inside is soooo annoying..

Anyhoo, I was about to take the pillar trims off to check the seals when I noticed….
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50672699327_40124dfbe8_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kcLQ6M)IMG_20201128_144946 (https://flic.kr/p/2kcLQ6M) by jon sutherland (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152809076@N06/), on Flickr

Hmmmm….
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50671865958_649bc23eda_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kcGynm)IMG_20201128_144616 (https://flic.kr/p/2kcGynm) by jon sutherland (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152809076@N06/), on Flickr

Yup a drip, and….
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50672699457_99e3f120d6_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kcLQ92)IMG_20201128_144607 (https://flic.kr/p/2kcLQ92) by jon sutherland (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152809076@N06/), on Flickr

Another…

better check the other side…..
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50672699397_a2cf3e53e5_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kcLQ7Z)IMG_20201128_144652 (https://flic.kr/p/2kcLQ7Z) by jon sutherland (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152809076@N06/), on Flickr
Hmmm… annoying, I thought I’d cured those last time.

[britlude]

The trim has a thin rubber edge lip thing on them, over the roof and down the pillar…. This ISNT the main seal. That’s a compressed foam along the mounting screw line. if the trims have been off for any reason, like a screen replacement, or new paint, then the seal is less likely to work.

Obviously none of these seals are available separately, only on the very expensive and mostly obsolete trim, but I found some Xpanda tape that is waterproof when compressed below a certain ratio https://www.xpandafoamtape.com/

In its compressed state as it’s just come off the car
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50671865908_24ea4a39f6_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kcGymu)IMG_20201128_145327 (https://flic.kr/p/2kcGymu) by jon sutherland (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152809076@N06/), on Flickr

Alas it’s wet on the lower edge when squeezed…..
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50671865863_0acb8eaf61_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kcGykH)IMG_20201128_145335 (https://flic.kr/p/2kcGykH) by jon sutherland (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152809076@N06/), on Flickr

Not good…. But it was only this spot…..

Turns out there's is a panel overlap where the roof meets the pillar, so there’s a dip.... just to be annoying...... so the foam isn’t as compressed, so less likely to seal….. typical!!
So a bit of hard foam seal was put in the dip, and feathered on the forward edge to lose any step edge, after all that’s what has caused the issue already!
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50672699227_2e1bd7fe91_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kcLQ54)IMG_20201128_155926 (https://flic.kr/p/2kcLQ54) by jon sutherland (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152809076@N06/), on Flickr

While it was apart, I had tried to source something for the thin inside rubber edge trim. Now I had fallen for the SOS schpeel that their door garnish edge rubber can be adapted to suit the over door trim, so got some. In fact I got 2, as it was so ridiculously expensive on postage, that I thought I’d sell on the second one. Alas the edging is only good for the door garnish, and NO GOOD AT ALL for anywhere else!!!! It doesn’t help that the curved official seal bit is rubber, the rest is hard plastic!
I did get a section of my old original one, modelled it on cad, 3d printed a bit as proof of concept, and tried to get some made….. now if I want to spend £600 for 300m of the stuff, then I’m good to go! At that price I might as well buy the whole trim piece from honda!

So I found 5m of generic finest Chinese extrusion on ebay for about £7, t-profile, but the right sizes… so that went on! Seems to do the trick…..

here’s a comparison of little slices for reference….
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50672699117_ce762fb74b_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kcLQ3a)IMG_20201129_192352 (https://flic.kr/p/2kcLQ3a) by jon sutherland (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152809076@N06/), on Flickr

SOS uselessness
Roof trim rough profile
Chinese t trim
And the OEM trim profile…..
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50671988973_6e8b08731a_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kcHbWi)IMG_20201129_192424 (https://flic.kr/p/2kcHbWi) by jon sutherland (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152809076@N06/), on Flickr

We shall see what progress has been made when it rains tomorrow!

[britlude]

rained..... wet under the over door trim garnish thing one side, and behind the b pillar rubber seal retainer on the other....... back to the start, do not pass GO, do not collect £200

thicker expanding sealing foam on the way....

[britlude]

while i have the headlining out (yup, headlining is out as when the screen gets damp/condensation, so does the inside of the roof... that then drips on the headlining.....that then holds the dampness/moisture, taking an age to dry out.... so it's out, drying)

anyhoo, while the headlining is out, i have to replace a clip, as they make them out of exploding plastic it seems..... and they appear to not take kindly to being removed and reused either, less likely to actually hold a second time....

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50678891918_40e75a1656_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kdjyWA)2020-12-04_04-31-24 (https://flic.kr/p/2kdjyWA) by jon sutherland (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152809076@N06/), on Flickr

The one on the left is the honda panel clip (for the headlining) 90667-SD4-003 at £4.10 from lings honda...... ok, cheaper from overseas, but i'd rather get it all back together this year!

on the right, a ford N801925 panel clip from eBay for £5.09 for 20!!! received 2 days after ordering! (I did later find 20 for £4.50 direct from the same place, after they sent me their invoice!)))))

i can't really see how the honda part is 20 times the price! but no change there


i've checked the panel depths behind the clip positions, the centre one will need trimming to match the length of the original, all the others have sufficient clearance!

[mutley]

Nice top tip about the headliner clips, I’ve just ordered a pack of 20 for £3.95, as I’m doing my headliner too

Cheers
Jim

[britlude]

the passenger side was fine, but the drivers side was still being a pain.....

after tweaking the seals, waiting for rain, seeing it leak, tweaking the seal method, waiting for rain, seeing if it leaked, we may have a breakthrough.....

now, in theory i could do the tweak, and run a hose on it, but it seemed 20 mins of hose pipe would be fine, but 4 hours of rain would be enough to get a drip, or many.... so it has been very frustrating...

a brain wave of spraying some aerosol wax-oil into the area was sound in theory, i could do it without disassembly after fashioning a flat nozzle, but the solvent in the spray, to make the wax sprayable, also killed the glue holding the expanding foam strip, the glue holding the rubber edging , turned the firm butyl tape into a soggy mess and basically didn't work!

its even pretty good at getting decent silicone sealant off, who knew!!!!!

so it was all cleaned off again, and back to square one... it was obviously something i hadn't done already, and water was STILL coming in at the top corner....

the expanding foam tape was reapplied and given a coating of grease to help seal....... now the foam is supposed to be waterproof when compressed, one section near the screen top corner was very compressed, so i reduced the foam thickness at that point, so it's belt and braces!

in addition, and something new, i added some sealant (roof and gutter sealant that doesn't harden allegedly) around the plastic inserts that the moulding screws go in to, thinking the water is also getting through onto the body that way.. and a very thin line of sealant between the plastic inserts... another reason for the grease....

fingers crossed it's looking promising, just waiting for storm Christoph to give it a test.....

in the meantime i have a new set of plastic inserts on their way, but that'll be a summer job, it's too cold out there!


Edit... turns out the edge of Christoph has revealed the passenger side isn't a sealed as i hoped... really hating the bloody thing at the moment

[britlude]

the ongoing dampness saga....

so things were getting desperate, water dripping where it shouldn't be, so we shall resume the story there...... this time coming from between the pinch weld of the roof, hence thinking it was the plastic inserts leaking somehow.... so headlining was removed...

hmmmm
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51181491135_1e454c4569_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kYJwbk)IMG_20210121_163103 (https://flic.kr/p/2kYJwbk) by NSX Jon (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152809076@N06/), on Flickr

no better closer up

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51180620058_2f03a38354_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kYE4eL)IMG_20210121_163052 (https://flic.kr/p/2kYE4eL) by NSX Jon (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152809076@N06/), on Flickr

i think that can count as quite damp, moist even!!!

so that was dried off and some insulation added, just because...
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51180620033_23c398be07_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kYE4ek)IMG_20210125_093005 (https://flic.kr/p/2kYE4ek) by NSX Jon (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152809076@N06/), on Flickr

then, to eliminate some of the equation, clear kitchen sink tape (not actually sticky) was added to seal the roof/side join, and grease pushed in to seal the bumps over the screen top trim....
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51181483495_6db3f0ea7c_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kYJtUB)IMG_20210309_110307 (https://flic.kr/p/2kYJtUB) by NSX Jon (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152809076@N06/), on Flickr

not pretty, but meant i could see if it made a difference.....

hmmm internal relative humidity went from an average 85-90% to 30-35% depending on the weather....

i count that as a breakthru!

[britlude]

so now i know its definitely the trim seal not sealing...

after testing various foams, and finding out the 'seals waterproof when compressed' foam i had been told would work doesn't actually do that, i found some closed cell really really soft foam than as in fact waterproof (made a test jig and everything), so ordering some 3mm thick https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/282892291862?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

and ordering another packet of the finest chinese edge trim, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/402837406545?hash=item5dcafb0351:g:UwgAAOSwjSdgmXS wwhen weather allowed it was time to attack it again....

new plastic inserts had arrived...
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51180612733_1c0134c7a9_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kYE24t)IMG_20210501_105213 (https://flic.kr/p/2kYE24t) by NSX Jon (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152809076@N06/), on Flickr

and new screws....
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51180388731_c25b0c44ff_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kYCStn)IMG_20210501_112842 (https://flic.kr/p/2kYCStn) by NSX Jon (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152809076@N06/), on Flickr

so a 30mm strip of foam was cut and stuck onto the moulding. just to make sure, i cut another strip about 7mm wide and stuck that to the body just above the plastic insert line... the theory being 6mm might be too much total to compress and might hold it too far from the body... or it might not, i don't know, so it was suck it and see!

add to this, i slapped on some red rubber grease (as the honda tech that bought my dads S800 said that was their usual cure for S2000 similar issues)

( as an aside, the honda tech, on the subject of ball joints, said they ARE available separately, but you have to get the part number off the internal honda parts list, an then they can be ordered... however getting to that number is the awkward bit for us outside the system!)

anyhoo..... new inserts, double line of foam seal, rubber grease and chinese rubber edging, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/402837406545?hash=item5dcafb0351:g:UwgAAOSwjSdgmXS w the new screws were tightened....

recent rain has left a small puddle each side of the top of the screen, AND internal humidity has yet to go over 40% on a soggy day!
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51181183089_db3053a36b_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kYGWBc)IMG_20210513_130409 (https://flic.kr/p/2kYGWBc) by NSX Jon (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152809076@N06/), on Flickr


fingers crossed that is an end to it.....