Peeling clear coat, respray needed.

[mart155]

Hi all,
My poor old car has been suffering badly over the past 2 years with peeling/flaking clear coat and it is really bad over the whole rear end of the car.
The only solution is a total respray.
Does anyone have any recommendations for someone who could do it and how much do you think it might cost.
Unfortunately following redundancy a couple of years back and fast approaching retirement age, I am worried that I might not be able to afford it and will have no option but to sell it as a project for someone else to do.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
M

[britlude]

it's only the clear coat, it doesn't stop you driving the car and enjoying it. i know it's irritating, but not a reason to sell it!

[Papalazarou]

it's only the clear coat, it doesn't stop you driving the car and enjoying it. i know it's irritating, but not a reason to sell it!

Jonathan makes a good point. It’s only aesthetics. The mechanical/electrical health is the most important thing. If you do need some paintwork, I’d suggest finding a good paint shop, then getting some nearby club members to help you dismantle the rear bumper and anything else you need to strip. There is a reasonable amount of labour in assembly and disassembly.
On the plus side, if you intend on owning it over the long term. There’s no rush to get things done, just take your time and enjoy it when you get the chance. This is coming from someone who used to drive a lot and has only done 2k miles in nearly 5 years.

[mutley]

There are a lot of good body shops out there that will be able to match the paint these days, so I doubt you would need the entire car resprayed ( be careful, my car went in for a respray and I got carried away........ see my build thread).

There is no harm in getting a few quotes.

On the other hand, I know what it is like to drive an NSX that doesn't quite look its best, and even back then , it still had a lot of admirers. Cosmetics are nice, but mechanicals and electrical are far more important .

Cheers
Jim

[NSXGB]

To throw another idea into the mix, how about a vinyl wrap? Will be less than half the cost of a decent respray and you could also benefit by wrapping it in a faster colour ��

[Nick Graves]

Surface really needs to be pretty good for a wrap to work.

Might get away with a matt black rat-look?

[duncan]

Combine the wrap and the rat-look: How about a rusty, patina’d steel wrap for the complete double bluff?

[Nick Graves]

:D

I like that!

Surface irregularities wouldn't matter.

Actually, I found a brushed ally wrap, so you could look like one of those German-car lessees who could only afford the primer coat with the black wheels:

https://www.wrapdirect.com/brushed-silver-aluminium-vinyl-with-adt/

[mutley]

:D

I like that!

Surface irregularities wouldn't matter.

Actually, I found a brushed ally wrap, so you could look like one of those German-car lessees who could only afford the primer coat with the black wheels:

https://www.wrapdirect.com/brushed-silver-aluminium-vinyl-with-adt/

The "deLorean" look??

[Nick Graves]

Indeed - I was thinking badly-neglected Caterham (or naked NSX) but DeLorean is more apposite!

[britlude]

if it works... this is a wrap.....

https://m.roadkillcustoms.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/1956-Chevrolet-UGLY-SISTER-678x381.jpg

[mart155]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys, I feel really bad seeing it like it is.
I will get some quotes and see where we go from there.

[mart155]

I know what you are saying Jonathan but I can't bear seeing it like it is.

[britlude]

don't look at the offensive bit... look at the good bits, but def don't sell because of a blemish :)

[Nick Graves]

It's called patina!

I agree - you'd be nuts to sell a nice car just because...

Maybe some Pioneer/Spoon/Toyo/Youass stickers? Go full Rice-Boy!

[mart155]

don't look at the offensive bit... look at the good bits, but def don't sell because of a blemish :)
Its much more than just a blemish Jonathan, the whole bootlid, the spoiler, top of the rear wings and starting along the top of the doors now. :(14732

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

If retirement is around the corner, why not make it as one of your retirement project?

If you have never done DIY re-spraying, that’s great because you would learn something new.


For the professional re-spraying or wrapping, no need rushing and you can wait until the right time comes.

Obviously, no reason to sell the car just for the cosmetic reason.

Much more important to invest in the mechanical and electrical services.


Even if you have made mistake with the DIY re-spraying, no big drama because it will be stripped off by the professional people during the preparation process for the re-spraying.





https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AL9nZEXrBS6tBYi4w9bXUGwF1BQBZVT-e_wT5RqF_snigIxPeJVq8xwj3wswximFD9AhJexSjS7WaITBwO BvKSAP8VMn9KFnuOtGR4BV5toKhy3RUczihzSacPAfCcipzVBN fc8fbtr-oRYvmEIFPgNkMQvmmw=w1080-h810-no?authuser=0
You are not alone and the same issue on many NSX that experienced strong UV ray over many years.

Mine started showing the effect of UV ray years ago.

It started at the upper horizontal section of the door panel.

You can probably recognise it in this photo.

Also, I noticed tiny bubbling at the black metal B-pillar garnish.





https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AL9nZEVqSSBn1FM6dp8Jq-2COhaT75nFKk0vrPR6Kv5FRUPjaUpzhbmuIRmhQSCVo8EDgEib ERMIoUsl_nalCld3chg2MS8iSc-TbEi96hh3vZ1D2QyLz9WqDBCM-3efz1Yeo-2hGmwHsh9viqGOarrjY4si-g=w1080-h810-no?authuser=0
Same issue at the rear wing.

In Japan, re-spraying is treated as damage repair history so I prefer keeping the original paint and thus, going to leave as they are.





https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AL9nZEW57t7DIbo43TbS1h-EDErl8gLH3cKLwyn0h_uS6mvMbBxR-cHclI1qifeP62DU8jE4jTJDAzTX27D9CN7xkhKlpIetyqqVslh 4SF54siiJ5CWRbIZFB7OK5b_6e498s5vZ9Kp6Kc_FSrSeBIBOA 2_LEA=w1080-h810-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AL9nZEWJm-BZsP3t9DDV1m7nm-gSCeSwijc7dCTfKsqcdn5PWjZ-0Lb4ll1rn1zTdDPJ5Nb-OInJQ_12a8Zbk2vK80drtdHtrJ2nqtBRYvkvMPlylWPBX6roA6 7A_ZYyrigVH3JKTCJGTKTmaHTz1FVNMN6bcw=w1080-h810-no?authuser=0
Although I’ll never do this to my NSX, there is a certain culture in Japan wrapping the car in interesting way.

It’s up to one’s taste…..

Even done on the NC1.....



Kaz

[Silver Surfer]

Whats your budget?

I can ask for you.
My sprayer usually charge £250-300 per panel for cash.
Budget will obviously affect final detail attention

A bit far from you but I use TMC at Colchester 01206 331744
You can contact him and send pictures and see how much he will charge.

SS

[Nick Graves]

I wouldn't leave that on the internet - you never know what bots are trolling!

Those wraps are rather artistic. Dunno if I'd want to drive around like that, though.

Not that I do, much.

You'll need to flat the paint off using Scotchbrite pads in either case - basically to remove the lumps in the clearcoat and most of the clearcoat to key the surface. If you are brave enough to do the prep yourself, it'll be a lot cheaper.

The other problem with red cars is fade - it'll need blending across the doors so you don't get two red cars stuck together. So it's a bit of a big job.

You could even try a DIY wrap! The boot lid & wings should be fairly easy. It's fairly forgiving as long as you don't overheat it. The spoiler & air inlets a bit tricky and they'll need to come off.

I wrapped the spotty chrome on my Leg End and it wasn't too hard - except for the pointy corners on the grille strip.

[mart155]

Well, I managed to get the funds together and found a great body shop near me who were happy for me to be involved at every step and let me do as much of the work as possible so I have done most of the strip down as well as some of the prep and will be doing all the refitting.
Some of the painting has been done already and is looking really good.
Some of you may remember but my front bumper had already been painted prior to me buying the car in 2007 and it has always had completely red paint since I have owned it.
I know that some of the 'grill area' would have originally been black inside on the crossbar and the fins so I was wondering if anyone could post an image of their car bumper showing precisely where I should mask the area for the black bit.
Many thanks in advance.
Martin.

[Papalazarou]

Kaz,

I found the ‘respraying is damage history’ in Japan really interesting. When I was looking for a car in Japan, the dealers hid a lot of issues which makes me think that 1. The domestic market customers are treated better, or 2. There’s not a lot of difference between Japan and here. I have never been to Japan.

I believe it is inevitable that paint is as much a consumable as many of the parts we replace or recondition. Kaz, you are fastidious with maintenance.
The illusion that something is original is mostly a fallacy. Especially when one considers that a sizeable percentage of cars are refinished between factory and dealer. You could be saving the paint you believe to be original, but which amy have been done later.
I was at one of the UK’s top restoration shops this week. They have the most beautiful cars; muiras, 275GTB’s, 250 california’s etc etc. the original cars were never as good as these restored examples. But honestly, so what, they look incredible. They are command horrific sums.
With one exception, every NSX I have owned has been painted somewhere. There’s a car currently for sale online which boasts all original paint and that car had the old 97+ corrosion issue. Hence, all original apart from the front, that back and one side��
I believe that something painted well is much better than the alternative which is bubbling arches, massive paint deviations between plastic and metal (I know the old argument), burn throughs and scratch damage.
I know that ‘patina’ tells a story and I concede each to his/her own.
Personally, I embrace maintenance whether mechanical or aesthetic.
Cheers.

[The King]

97 + corrosion issue??

[Papalazarou]

97 + corrosion issue??

Sure. The later 3.2 era cars suffered from paint corrosion issues. Normally around the front and rear wheel arches. The earlier cars seem less prone.
I can only imagine something changed in production which caused these issues. Perhaps the change in the aluminium grade or a paint material/process. One physical reason might have been the trim/nosecone lightly rubbing against the wing, but certainly stone chips eventually letting in moisture.
The facelift cars seemed the worst. They often had slam panel bubbling as well. I had a long beach blue car which was bubbling well on the wheel arches. Honda actually paid out for it. I had one red facelift car with only 12k miles on it. That car had paint flaking off the wheel arch.
There will be some cars which have not suffered from it to any noticeable extent. But I’d say it’s rare. I know people will be reading this thinking their car is all original, but tbh on a 20-30+ year old car, it’s doubtful.
Feel free to beat me up over this.

[NZNick]

James - is the issue only on 02+ cars, or were/are some pop-up cars affected? Is it a worldwide issue or just in the UK? I remember seeing pictures of LBBP cars years ago but nothing since.

[Papalazarou]

James - is the issue only on 02+ cars, or were/are some pop-up cars affected? Is it a worldwide issue or just in the UK? I remember seeing pictures of LBBP cars years ago but nothing since.

I only have experience of UK and a handful of European cars. Out of all those cars I’d say the facelift cars got in worst, very closely followed by pop-up 3.2’s, or autos from around 97 onwards.

[NZNick]

Thanks for the swift reply. Mine seems to be ok (goes off to touch wood and aluminium)….

[Papalazarou]

Thanks for the swift reply. Mine seems to be ok (goes off to touch wood and aluminium)….

I think there is also a bit of luck involved. I also believe that certain colours fare better than other. Certainly that is true with plastic/metal variations.
Look at most red NSX’s and there will be a colour difference between bumpers and body. I know most have been painted by now, but even the original finishes are often a mile out. IOP and pearl white perhaps the worst. Not quite as bad as the R35 Nissans which were just shocking from factory. I was told that they paint the body and bumpers separately, but I was told, so who knows.
Strangely I’ve never seen a LLB with original paint with deviations. The ones that have been refinished are hellishly bad.
Just a final thought. I think the corrosion issues have a fair bit to do with moisture and humidity. Storing cars in damp environments causes lots of issues.

[NZNick]

Cheers again James - my car is kept in a reasonably large well ventilated space. i think in it’s previous life in Japan it was well cared for and driven a reasonable amount. Can’t see that it has had paint in the past - if it has it has been done well.

[Senninha]

Hi,

Sorry to hear about the issues Martin, and whilst a wrap could be an option, please be mindful that removing it from anything other than OEM paint is only likely to cause further issues for you as the wrap is removed. Further, my experience, that I know James will support, Formula Red is soft and will have changed tone over the years so I would proceed with caution with any shop claiming its ability to match part of the car.

Also to consider is that paint has changed since yours left the factory. It’s all water based now and that also adds to the complexity of colour matching.

If it was my car, I’d drive and worry less about the exterior and probably not even wash it … theres something about a supercar that’s clearly been used and isnt looking like a new pin … hard to do but starts a whole new set of conversations :)

Ref the bubbling issue, it does preceed the facelift as Ive seen several NA2 pop-ups with the issue both before and after treatment. As James says, how original is original. I’d rather buy an honestly maintained car than that has received properly recorded mechanical and cosmetic care than one that has a sketchy history and ‘claims’ to originality.

Jump in a drive it, its a unique and rare sight regardless of cosmetics and many will still admire as you roll past them!!

Regards, Paul

[rkanaga]

Hi,

Sorry to hear about the issues Martin, and whilst a wrap could be an option, please be mindful that removing it from anything other than OEM paint is only likely to cause further issues for you as the wrap is removed. Further, my experience, that I know James will support, Formula Red is soft and will have changed tone over the years so I would proceed with caution with any shop claiming its ability to match part of the car.

Also to consider is that paint has changed since yours left the factory. It’s all water based now and that also adds to the complexity of colour matching.

If it was my car, I’d drive and worry less about the exterior and probably not even wash it … theres something about a supercar that’s clearly been used and isnt looking like a new pin … hard to do but starts a whole new set of conversations :)

Ref the bubbling issue, it does preceed the facelift as Ive seen several NA2 pop-ups with the issue both before and after treatment. As James says, how original is original. I’d rather buy an honestly maintained car than that has received properly recorded mechanical and cosmetic care than one that has a sketchy history and ‘claims’ to originality.

Jump in a drive it, its a unique and rare sight regardless of cosmetics and many will still admire as you roll past them!!

Regards, Paul

That lacquer peel is very surprising isn't it? Was the car stored outside with a cover on it? I think that can sometimes lead to moisture and together with abrasion from the cover over time cause problems?

My 1991 Red car doesn't have any paint issues after 32 years, but it has always been stored inside, maybe that's the issue? It's had a front bumper stone chip respray but the actual lacquer was perfect apart from the stone chips.

If you're after a top notch printshop, I can recommend SL Restoration in Gatwick who did it.

The other thing to remember is that the original paint finish involved something like a 28 step process concluding wet sanding to get the really fast look and a tinted clear coat. That's why if you polish an original panel you will get some colour on the rag. It's pretty much impossible to recreate with current paints, so anything will be a best approximation.

The new NSX has an 'Andaro' paint option ($6,000) which also has this fancy tinted clear coat technique I believe.

The

[Nick Graves]

I suspect a refinish at some time.

We had an issue with one of the rear wings on the Civic, by our usual sprayer. Looked lovely, but I spilled some squirt when I filled it up and it lifted the clearcoat.

He explained that sometimes the clearcoat mix is off and that happens, so he refinished the side again. He was brilliant at blending & fading pearlescents...

An old friend found the clearcoat on his Interceptor never hardened - so he had to do that all over again.

Mind you, most metallic blue Jaguars two decades old seem to have hardly any clearcoat left at all! A mate's XKR is like that. Seems to have happened in about a year.

I wonder what did change around 1997? Perhaps New Formula Red means exactly that!

But my paint's OK - it's the ally beneath that's gone a bit furry in the usual spots and the paints still reasonably solid.

[mart155]

Hi,

Sorry to hear about the issues Martin, and whilst a wrap could be an option, please be mindful that removing it from anything other than OEM paint is only likely to cause further issues for you as the wrap is removed. Further, my experience, that I know James will support, Formula Red is soft and will have changed tone over the years so I would proceed with caution with any shop claiming its ability to match part of the car.

Also to consider is that paint has changed since yours left the factory. It’s all water based now and that also adds to the complexity of colour matching.

If it was my car, I’d drive and worry less about the exterior and probably not even wash it … theres something about a supercar that’s clearly been used and isnt looking like a new pin … hard to do but starts a whole new set of conversations :)

Ref the bubbling issue, it does preceed the facelift as Ive seen several NA2 pop-ups with the issue both before and after treatment. As James says, how original is original. I’d rather buy an honestly maintained car than that has received properly recorded mechanical and cosmetic care than one that has a sketchy history and ‘claims’ to originality.

Jump in a drive it, its a unique and rare sight regardless of cosmetics and many will still admire as you roll past them!!

Regards, Paul

Thanks Paul,
TBH, a wrap wasn't something I really wanted anyway and as I posted previously the respray process has already started. I know the purists won't like it and its not the same as having the original paint but I really didn't feel I had much choice as the peeling lacquer was looking awful and it's looking so much better now.
I am in no rush and have also taken the opportunity to do quite a few other bits while I have the opportunity including replacing the door window / scraper mouldings.
Surprisingly, I managed to remove the old ones without breaking a single clip but the new ones came with new clips fitted anyway.

[mart155]

Hi all,
Not sure what happened but I did post a reply here about a month ago but it's not here now.
As I said in a previous post, I did get the funds together to go ahead with this and it has been a real adventure for me and its almost finished now.
The car is looking nice and just needs a final flat and polish plus a couple of tiny jobs left to do.

I decided to replace the door moldings/scrapers and bought a number of other bits and bobs from Amayama in Japan. Having removed the moldings, I decided to remove the door windows and regulators while I had the opportunity. The regulator and window guides were in a terrible state with thick solidified grey grease and missing bits for the guides on the motor rail. Fortunately, I found just 2 small bits in the grease so was able to work out what was missing.
The plastic parts that stabilise the widow in the centre guide are not available to buy from Honda separately so I measured them and 3D printed some new ones. There are 6 in total for each regulator (4 L shaped ones and 2 rectangular ones).

I have done lots of other jobs while the car has been stripped for painting, I will try and post some more details and some pictures here soon.

Thanks all for your suggestions and comments, and while a respray isn’t everyone’s first choice, I didn’t really see any other option. A wrap would not have worked because of the poor clearcoat surface that would have been underneath even though there wasn’t any actual corrosion.