S2000 steering rack anyone?

[Papalazarou]

Since buying the current car and actually using it. It got me thinking about an update to the steering. The manual rack in my car is really nice when up to speed, but hard work in the low speed corners, especially the tighter stuff.
It’s hard to get everything in one package. The manual rack gives you excellent feedback and on faster roads I have no complaints.
I have been watching some videos, reading a bit of Prime and exchanged some emails with a guy that has done some conversions using S2000 and Accord racks.
For anyone who hasn’t heard of these conversions. They appear to work incredibly well. They normally use the AP1 rack which gives you a 67% faster ratio, whereas the Accord rack is 36% faster. There are some good videos online documenting how they actually work on the road.
Personally, if I could keep a car long enough, I would be interested in this mod. I think for the following reasons; 1. To make the slow speed corners more enjoyable and allow me to catch the back end easier. 2. Because an NSX EPS retrofit would be incredibly expensive. 3. It would make the early cars feel more modern. 4. The S2000/Accord racks are inexpensive with regard to ongoing maintenance.

The guy that’s making the kits uses LHD racks for both applications and has custom manufactured brackets for both LHD and RHD cars.

The pricing is $2100 for the Accord rack and $2600 for the S2000 version. This is plus shipping, PP etc.

https://youtu.be/qcpDs-0Ef4s

Anyway, I know some people will find it sacrilegious, but I’m interested to know what people think?

Cheers.

[ozon02]

I think this is one of the better modifications.
There is no reason to consider it morally. The only doubt can be due to safety reasons because the Rack steering bracket is not made and calculated by the manufacturer/engineer.
P.S. I wanted to adopt EPS ECU from S2000 because the first variants (023,033,305,043 and even later 053) are a bit slow. Let's not forget that this is Honda's first electric power steering

[Papalazarou]

I think this is one of the better modifications.
There is no reason to consider it morally. The only doubt can be due to safety reasons because the Rack steering bracket is not made and calculated by the manufacturer/engineer.
P.S. I wanted to adopt EPS ECU from S2000 because the first variants (023,033,305,043 and even later 053) are a bit slow. Let's not forget that this is Honda's first electric power steering

I never really minded the slow steering. But slow steering and a manual rack in hairpins and anything tight has always felt like a compromise.
I wonder whether the Accord rack is the sweet-spot, perhaps a halfway house. I would hate to lose the high speed stability of the original design.
I read that someone has also produced a manual quick rack using quaife. I could be wrong and often am, but I see this as a backward step. NSX manual steering does not need more weight.

[Nick Graves]

The S2000's steering is actually quite stable at high speed - it's the rear end that fidgets and tramlines. One learns to hold the wheel lightly and just ignore it. At speeds where the S2000 feels like all hell is about to occur, the NSX is just GT-cruising.

The NSX runs a lot more caster, so I cannot see stability being an issue. Rear kinematics are a lot calmer, too.

The S2K's rather bereft of feel (even with chassis braces) compared to the old stager. I personally don't mind the twirly steering - it suits the GT car nature. The S2000 is more mad.

So I'd be inclined to compromise with an Accord rack if you're so minded.

Of course, the Evora uses an old Accord rack - a proper hydraulic one. You'd have to install an engine pump somehow, so it might be a bit harder. But I preferred the way the NSX drives over an early Evora anyway. Found the steering a bit slow/heavy to unwind when the tail steps out.

My car with the loveliest steering is actually the Leg End! Hydraulic, just like the even lovelier steering on my old Prelude. Something got lost on the way...

[wixer]

Of course, the Evora uses an old Accord rack - a proper hydraulic one. You'd have to install an engine pump somehow, so it might be a bit harder. But I preferred the way the NSX drives over an early Evora anyway. Found the steering a bit slow/heavy to unwind when the tail steps out.


I fitted a hydraulic PAS rack to my TVR Griffith years ago. I used a remote hydraulic pump from (IIFC) a Peugeot 206, which was how TVR installed PAS to the later Tuscans, Sagaris etc. So I only had to find a space in the engine bay & fabricate a mounting bracket. I then wired the pump to run off the alternator, so it would only run when the engine was running, so as not to drain battery power, when the ignition was switched on. I had Pertek make the hoses.

I know there isn't a lot of free space in the front end of an NSX but there could be enough to package a remote hydraulic pump & then the hoses would be quite short, rather than thinking you have to run a pump directly from the engine.

It'd be interesting to see if an Accord rack would fit without having to modify the subframe, as I believe the S2000 conversion does.

[Papalazarou]

I fitted a hydraulic PAS rack to my TVR Griffith years ago. I used a remote hydraulic pump from (IIFC) a Peugeot 206, which was how TVR installed PAS to the later Tuscans, Sagaris etc. So I only had to find a space in the engine bay & fabricate a mounting bracket. I then wired the pump to run off the alternator, so it would only run when the engine was running, so as not to drain battery power, when the ignition was switched on. I had Pertek make the hoses.

I know there isn't a lot of free space in the front end of an NSX but there could be enough to package a remote hydraulic pump & then the hoses would be quite short, rather than thinking you have to run a pump directly from the engine.

It'd be interesting to see if an Accord rack would fit without having to modify the subframe, as I believe the S2000 conversion does.

From the research I have done, the Accord kit does not need any subframe modification.
Here is one of the original threads from Prime. Post 171, I think page 7 gives a drivers perception of the pros and cons. They talk a bit about being able to customise the amount of assist at different speeds. This is obviously another step on.
Personally, I like the idea of the S2000 rack as long as it isn’t twitchy at higher speeds. This inference is that this might be the case. But so far, the anecdotal evidence has not shown this to be the case.

https://www.nsxprime.com/threads/s2k-rack-on-na1.205188/page-7

[wixer]

Which year Accord fits with no mods ?

Does a RHD Accord rack fit or is it a LHD ?

I think the S2000 is generally more of a twitchy car than the NSX, mine certainly is, especially if the suspension geometry isn't correctly set-up.

[Papalazarou]

Which year Accord fits with no mods ?

Does a RHD Accord rack fit or is it a LHD ?

I think the S2000 is generally more of a twitchy car than the NSX, mine certainly is, especially if the suspension geometry isn't correctly set-up.

They use LHD racks for both LHD and RHD. I think it’s a matter of testing back to back to see which ones works best. But obviously that’s not possible. There appears to be a lot of variables. I have driven probably 20+ NSX’s over the years and they all drove differently; geo, tyres, age, mods etc. Then add the variable of a much faster rack and it’s not hard to see potential issues. Personally, I like the way the OE EPS on the NSX irons out some of the chatter and reduces the amount of information being transmitted through the wheel. There seems to be an obsession with feel. But sometimes I think there can be too much. If the S2000 or Accord rack can be employed to achieve a sharper rack without loss of high speed stability, that’s got to be a worthwhile mod.

[unclebob]

With regard to the obsession with feel and my two pence for what its worth, I fitted a wooden steering wheel to my NSX and it feels amazing, the feedback from the road through the wheels to my hands was very satisfying, much more so than the heavily insulated wheels such as the OEM and s2000 wheel. Yes the steering rack still feels slow but the feel is wonderful. Can't explain it better than that. :)


They use LHD racks for both LHD and RHD. I think it’s a matter of testing back to back to see which ones works best. But obviously that’s not possible. There appears to be a lot of variables. I have driven probably 20+ NSX’s over the years and they all drove differently; geo, tyres, age, mods etc. Then add the variable of a much faster rack and it’s not hard to see potential issues. Personally, I like the way the OE EPS on the NSX irons out some of the chatter and reduces the amount of information being transmitted through the wheel. There seems to be an obsession with feel. But sometimes I think there can be too much. If the S2000 or Accord rack can be employed to achieve a sharper rack without loss of high speed stability, that’s got to be a worthwhile mod.