Driving when cold... a few questions.

[Lankstarr]

I would like your opinions/ expertise please.

for 3 days a week my NSX barely gets warmed up by the time I have to park he rup and say goodbye.

I am restraining myslef to driving below 3000 rpm before it is warmed up. Is this protective enough or a bit obsessive


I have ruled out remote engine start for sevcurity reasons but would fitting a turbo timer be an option?
I'm thinking I could start her up in the morning .. set the timer for 10 mins, get out have my cuppa and then revisit a nicely warnmed (and potentially defrosted) NSX so that I can drive to work with a safely warmed engine (and give her a boot ;))


Would there be any issues with my car idling for so long every morning?
what rpm should be a max to take the car to when cold?
Do people think that a turbo timer is a good idea to get around this ... or am I missing something?
Would the turbo timer also be beneficia to let the car cool down for a few minutes after driving?


I know these engines are meant to be bomb proof but I would appreciate any opinions or facts to do with these issues before I make the jump!

many thanks,

Luke

[AR]

This was discussed at lenght on Prime. I think the consensus was that if you have driven the car during the last 24 hours, a minute should be OK.

I guess it all depends how cold it is outside.

I always give it a few minutes in the morning, and don't rev it too much.

The NSX apparently has a system that will limit the redline at 7000 rpm when the engine is cold.

Cheers

AR

[Lankstarr]

This was discussed at lenght on Prime. I think the consensus was that if you have driven the car during the last 24 hours, a minute should be OK.

I guess it all depends how cold it is outside.

I always give it a few minutes in the morning, and don't rev it too much.

The NSX apparently has a system that will limit the redline at 7000 rpm when the engine is cold.

Cheers

AR

~I ceratinly wont be intending on finding out if there is a limit at 7000 rpm when my engine is cold !

Car is driven daily.. is your first sentence saying that on Prime they think I should be OK just warming for 1 min... or saying that 1 min of idleing is ok but dont do any more?

Sorry but I dont have access to prime.

As well as being told that idling is bad someone also suggested that if I had to switch off the engine after the turbo timer had warmed it... and then restart with a key this could be potentially damaging.

If I will be doing more harm than good by driving cold or letting her idle then I'll avoid it liek the plague but if fitting a turbo timer for £50 will let me always drive a warm car and be better for the engine with no ill side effects then I'll do it tomorrow!

[jaytip]

What i used to do with my last one on cold winter mornings was take the plunge and get in the car 10 mins early and let it tick over for 10 mins to warm it up a bit before driving.I would be freezing my arse off,but if it helped look after the car then that made it ok.

[AR]

Here is the link for later:

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45111&highlight=engine+warm

The only cars that I know of needing a cool down are turbocharged vehicles.

I always let the NSX rest for a few seconds before I turn off the engine, but this is out of habit from driving my TD Landcruisers which do need it.

I would say that whent the idle drops the engine is getting there.

Cheers

AR

[TheQuietOne]

Ok so part of this advice is mine, and I don't have any way to back it up. Lukus my considered advice is get the Roadthingy fitted, and have your little turbo timer fitted too as planned, (for leaving the engine running without the keys in the ignition when your having your breakie). Make sure that it will cut out if a peddle is pressed etc so someone doesn't get 5 mins of exciting keyless NSX fun while you swig your cuppa down, and then if you have any problems down the line with cats etc post it up so I (others) won't have it done!

Useful?

[Lankstarr]

The turbo timer cuts out if the handbrake is touched.

Is idling the car for 10 mins going to do it any harm- someone has told me that you shouldnt do this .. you should get in and drive (at low revs) but someone elsre said this is a load of tat - after all you have to sit and let it idle to defrost in the winter!>? Can someone p[lease put me straight and also let me know if they can see any potential problems with fitting one.

Thanks for the input so far - any other thoughts anyone?

[AR]

The turbo timer cuts out if the handbrake is touched.

Is idling the car for 10 mins going to do it any harm- someone has told me that you shouldnt do this .. you should get in and drive (at low revs) but someone elsre said this is a load of tat - after all you have to sit and let it idle to defrost in the winter!>? Can someone p[lease put me straight and also let me know if they can see any potential problems with fitting one.

Thanks for the input so far - any other thoughts anyone?

I think that the turbotimer will be a waste of £££. How hard is it to get in there and wait a couple of minutes for the rpms to drop? This will mean that the water is warm as the thermostat would have open and the fast idle valve done its job.

Idling for 10 minutes before setting off will not harm the car any more than driving, just your wallet.

Is your car and your petrol, you must do what makes you feel safe.

Cheers

AR

[AR]

The turbo timer cuts out if the handbrake is touched.

Is idling the car for 10 mins going to do it any harm- someone has told me that you shouldnt do this .. you should get in and drive (at low revs) but someone elsre said this is a load of tat - after all you have to sit and let it idle to defrost in the winter!>? Can someone p[lease put me straight and also let me know if they can see any potential problems with fitting one.

Thanks for the input so far - any other thoughts anyone?

I think that the turbotimer will be a waste of £££. How hard is it to get in there and wait a couple of minutes for the rpms to drop? This will mean that the water is warm as the thermostat would have open and the fast idle valve done its job.

Idling for 10 minutes before setting off will not harm the car any more than driving, just your wallet.

Is your car and your petrol, you must do what makes you feel safe.

Cheers

AR

[Lankstarr]

This will mean that the water is warm as the thermostat would have open and the fast idle valve done its job.


Hmmm interesting as many of you have probably picked up I am not very technically knowledgable about cars but my understanding was that it was the oil temperature that was important. This is why I have always waited until I get to full operating temperature (according to the oil temp guage) until I give it any revs.

I know in my old Honda VTEC didn't work until the oil temp was up, but I have never pushed the NSX to find out! After years of being careful - I don't "feel safe" driving hard until the oil temp is up but am interested to know whether I am being over cautious and I only need to wait for the water to heat up ... ie a couple of minutes.

Again, thanks for the help - I'll have to catch up on any progressions next week but all feedback/ knowledge is appreciated:D

[Lankstarr]

This will mean that the water is warm as the thermostat would have open and the fast idle valve done its job.


Hmmm interesting as many of you have probably picked up I am not very technically knowledgable about cars but my understanding was that it was the oil temperature that was important. This is why I have always waited until I get to full operating temperature (according to the oil temp guage) until I give it any revs.

I know in my old Honda VTEC didn't work until the oil temp was up, but I have never pushed the NSX to find out! After years of being careful - I don't "feel safe" driving hard until the oil temp is up but am interested to know whether I am being over cautious and I only need to wait for the water to heat up ... ie a couple of minutes.

Again, thanks for the help - I'll have to catch up on any progressions next week but all feedback/ knowledge is appreciated:D

[Papalazarou]

Ok, here's some stuff to consider;

If you leave the car idling for 10 minutes before you drive away it should be fine. There would only be an issue if oil pressure were low or the car was idling too low causing a lumpy tickover.

Additionally, you can't warm the gearbox up when you're not moving, so although the engine may have warmed up a little but the gearbox may still be tight. (seems to be a characteristic of 5 speed tranmissions that 5th gear can be a little tight when cold and second gear can feel notchy).

I was talking to a TVR dealer the other day and he was saying that one of the reasons TVR's have more engine problems than most is because people drive them like normal cars, i.e; don't warm them up properly (especially in the winter).
He said that your average TVR shouldn't even be driven until it's been left ticking over for at least 5 minutes, then warmed up sympathetcally for a further 25 minutes, then not driven hard for 45!
Contrast this with the BMW M3 which has the rev limit indicators on the rev counter and literally after the first 5 minutes you can take it over 5K.

In my opinion, the car needs 10-15 minutes of careful driving in the summer and probably another 5-10 minutes in the winter. Sometimes in the winter I go out and even after fifteen minutes of driving the temperature guage is only just registering.


Cheers,

James.

[Senninha]

HI Guys,

IMHO, you can do more for you engine before you even consider warming it up by simply ensuring you have the right grade/quantity of oil and other lubricants, ie, keep up to date on the weekly checks.

Honda engines don't generally burn or drop oil and I believe that all the Vtec variants have inbuilt safe guards in the ECU that will prevent over-revving of a cold unit.

One thing you dont mention is whether your NSX is garaged? For me, the process of getting S2 underway is to fire up the engine (clutch depressed out of habit) and drive slowly out of the garage. Leave car idling whilst closing garage door, then back into car and a) clunk click b) check indicators c) check brake/all lights d) drive off slowly. Total idle time is <5 mins. As Papa says, you are not warming any other parts just sitting on the driveway, so get driving and start the process.

I currently have Bridgestones that take a while to warm even in the summer, so I use this together with the temp guage to guide me as to when the car is ready to be driven. Once this level is reached its time to play ;)

On returning home or ending the journey, I always allow the engine to idle whilst I take off seat belts, glasses, stereo facia and slide the seat back. I've done this ever since running an RX7 turbo in the 80's.

You mention that a few trips are within the time it takes to fully warm the engine. Are these avoidable or could you not set off a little earlier to have more of a run, similarly, take the long way home :)

None of this is technically based but simply based upon years of good performance cars with various engine types and all have provided me many miles of reliable motoring. I hope this helps you decide how to continue the life of your NSX. Finally, with regards to leaving it running for 10 mins or more, why waste the fuel? Use it for driving!

Regards

Paul

[TheQuietOne]

Honda engines don't generally burn or drop oil and I believe that all the Vtec variants have inbuilt safe guards in the ECU that will prevent over-revving of a cold unitl

HI Paul, you obviously haven't run an Integra or Civic Type-R then! The word drink comes to mind...;-)

[Paul]

An engine will take longer to warm up with the car sat ilding as opposed to being actually driven, plus you'll not warm the gearbox oil up until you actually start driving.

As for any harm that might be done if left idling for the suggested 10 minutes I really wouldn't like to say, but I doubt it would really harm the engine per se ... here after will now probably follow various posts correcting this statement!

For the winter months (if not garaged) something to clear the windscreen quickly and effectively would be cheaper than leaving the NSX idling for 10 minutes ... unless your windscreen clearing device costs a mint ... i.e. turbo timer ?

Leaving a car to idle for a minute or so after a journey is only really applicable to turbo engines ... as has already been pointed out. As long as you don't screetch to a halt after a long positively driven journey and yank the key out, the gentle engine revs whilst you carefully park up will be all the engine needs, or if you can just drive straight in to your parking space, do as Senninha does ... leave the engine running whilst taking off glasses, seat belt, etc ... albeit a habit he formed driving a turbo'd motor.

I appreciate you're concerned about doing any harm to what is likely a substantial investment and apparently a much cherished one at that. But, other than common sense ... checking oil level, coolant level, maintaining the proper service routines, etc. etc., there isn't much you really need worry about to help keep the engine in good order ... asides from not 'booting' it for the first five to ten minutes when driven away from cold and letting the revs return to low levels for ... well, less than a minute really at the end of a journey.

Save yourself the cost of a turbo timer etc ... then buy yourself a nice warm jacket, pair of gloves, and a decent window scrapper for the winter months :-D ... it'll probably be cheaper ... alternatively, if you're loaded ... get yourself a garage ... lol ;-)

[TheQuietOne]

Speaking on behalf of Luke (as he's exam bound until Wednesday) I think he was simply wondering if leaving the car idling to 'warm' up would do any damage, and I think from reading between the lines the answer is probably no - but don't get in and rag it straight away until other bits have had a chance to catch up...:cool:

As for get a garage he has two ;) - but I would guess they are still a bit full of moving in boxes etc and the usual crap those of us who don't put their cars in the garage seem to ecru!

Keep the thoughts coming though I'm sure they will help...:D

[Paul]

As for get a garage he has two ;) - but I would guess they are still a bit full of moving in boxes etc and the usual crap those of us who don't put their cars in the garage seem to ecru! Ah, yes, I know that feeling all too well :-)

[Lankstarr]

Thanks for all the comments guys, much appreciated.

FYI the turbo timer will cost £40 to fit plus whatever I can pick one up for on egay.

after consideration thouigh I have decided that taking the long way to and from work is a much better solution... also I can think of worse places to sit on a frosty morning than in my NSX!

One last question ... what is limiting the revs when cold?

I try not to go above 2000rpm but inevitably get up to 3k when on dual carriageway and sometimes a little higher if pulling away.

Of course I could restrict to 2, 3 or 4 but would probably never be happier going above that until warmed... but which one would it be? - Is 2 too cautious or 4 not careful enough!?

[Papalazarou]

Luke,

I think that 3K rpm is a pretty safe bet for the first 5-10 minutes during the winter. But also consider the amount of load you are putting on the engine. You don't want to labour the car in a high gear just to keep below a certain RPM.
If you have ever owned a new car, they always warn against labouring because it puts greater stress through the engine when running in.
I also think that the way the gears feel make a difference. Mine always feels a bit tight into 5th when cold which, to me is an indicator that things need to warm up.

Cheers,


James.

[Lankstarr]

Good thought... come to think of it I have been told in the past that running an engine at too low revs can do damage to teh bottom end so best to stay out of the top gear(s) when warming her.

The 6sp is a bit cranky in 6th but fine in 5th when cold so I don't tend to use 6th until it is warm. Funny how it is just the top gear in both cars.... 5th is fine in mine!