New airbox fitted

[Paul]

I now have a Dali OEM airbox with an APEXi filter (thank you CrazyMixedUpKid) installed.

The sound in the cabin from around 3,000rpm and upwards sounds more purposeful and throaty, but not boy racerish over the top loud.

The information displayed on the Dali site from a magizine extract ... here (http://www.daliracing.com/v666-5/info/induction_kit/induction_kit.cfm) shows a 14bhp gain, although this was on a Toyota Supra, not an NSX.

It does feel as though there are a few more horses in the engine bay and having driven back from Reading after the 10 year service (which includes a new air filter) on Tuesday and making a short outing across town today before changing to the APEXi filter box I am quietly confident that when the group going to the rolling road day at the end of this month get to see the figures from the runs, mine will show an increase in BHP from a run using the APEXi filter and a run using the OEM filter.

Whether the gain is as much as 14bhp is obviously impossible to say, without the aid of a rolling road. However, a rough guide from my 'seat of the pants' test this afternoon, I feel sure there are enough extra horses in the engine bay for me to notice it.

Roll on the rolling road day to find out what the increase actually is.

All I need now is another NSX owner with a standard engine, exhaust (oval tips) and induction set up, plus a third party, so we can see if there is a noticable difference from a drive by perspective.

Any volunteers ... Lankstarr :?: :!: :?:

[NSXGOD]

I now have a Dali OEM airbox with an APEXi filter (thank you CrazyMixedUpKid) installed.

The sound in the cabin from around 3,000rpm and upwards sounds more purposeful and throaty, but not boy racerish over the top loud.

The information displayed on the Dali site from a magizine extract ... here (http://www.daliracing.com/v666-5/info/induction_kit/induction_kit.cfm) shows a 14bhp gain, although this was on a Toyota Supra, not an NSX.

It does feel as though there are a few more horses in the engine bay and having driven back from Reading after the 10 year service (which includes a new air filter) on Tuesday and making a short outing across town today before changing to the APEXi filter box I am quietly confident that when the group going to the rolling road day at the end of this month get to see the figures from the runs, mine will show an increase in BHP from a run using the APEXi filter and a run using the OEM filter.

Whether the gain is as much as 14bhp is obviously impossible to say, without the aid of a rolling road. However, a rough guide from my 'seat of the pants' test this afternoon, I feel sure there are enough extra horses in the engine bay for me to notice it.

Roll on the rolling road day to find out what the increase actually is.

All I need now is another NSX owner with a standard engine, exhaust (oval tips) and induction set up, plus a third party, so we can see if there is a noticable difference from a drive by perspective.

Any volunteers ... Lankstarr :?: :!: :?:

Hi P -

You will NOT get +14 on the NSX from this intake, the Supra OEM intake is crap, hence the large gain. We have not dyno'd all the intakes in inventory yet, as I'm waiting for a bit cooler air (it has been 100F during the day at the shop lately) and we are also waiting on the delivery of the production version of the Python intake before we run them all.

Also, please keep in mind that when doing on the road testing, (ie running similar cars side by side, lets not call it "racing" :mrgreen: ) the variation between "identical" stock motors can be as much as 20HP. The condition of the motor, valve adjustment, dirty fuel injectors etc - make a large difference in the performance. All HP testing should be on the dyno/rolling road on the same car by the same tech on the same day - or at least with as similar weather conditions as possible.

[Paul]

Hi P -

You will NOT get +14 on the NSX from this intake, the Supra OEM intake is crap, hence the large gain. We have not dyno'd all the intakes in inventory yet, as I'm waiting for a bit cooler air (it has been 100F during the day at the shop lately) and we are also waiting on the delivery of the production version of the Python intake before we run them all.

Also, please keep in mind that when doing on the road testing, (ie running similar cars side by side, lets not call it "racing" :mrgreen: ) the variation between "identical" stock motors can be as much as 20HP. The condition of the motor, valve adjustment, dirty fuel injectors etc - make a large difference in the performance. All HP testing should be on the dyno/rolling road on the same car by the same tech on the same day - or at least with as similar weather conditions as possible.

Hi Mark

I appreciate the gains may be less than those claimed, different car, etc. etc. but any gain is always welcome if it's not risking damaging the engine. It did feel better as well as sound better, although maybe the extra sound made me think it felt a bit quicker!

Ah, maybe I should have made it clearer that the road test was to see if there was a noticable change to the sound of the exhaust, not to speed test the new airbox against another motor running an OEM version.

It will be interesting to see a run of different air filters on the NSX when things cool down and you have all the filters you plan to test ... don't forget to drop back here and let us know when you've finished testing and then we can pop over to your site and see the figures.

[Steveycaz]

I now have a Dali OEM airbox with an APEXi filter (thank you CrazyMixedUpKid) installed.

The sound in the cabin from around 3,000rpm and upwards sounds more purposeful and throaty, but not boy racerish over the top loud.

The information displayed on the Dali site from a magizine extract ... here (http://www.daliracing.com/v666-5/info/induction_kit/induction_kit.cfm) shows a 14bhp gain, although this was on a Toyota Supra, not an NSX.

It does feel as though there are a few more horses in the engine bay and having driven back from Reading after the 10 year service (which includes a new air filter) on Tuesday and making a short outing across town today before changing to the APEXi filter box I am quietly confident that when the group going to the rolling road day at the end of this month get to see the figures from the runs, mine will show an increase in BHP from a run using the APEXi filter and a run using the OEM filter.

Whether the gain is as much as 14bhp is obviously impossible to say, without the aid of a rolling road. However, a rough guide from my 'seat of the pants' test this afternoon, I feel sure there are enough extra horses in the engine bay for me to notice it.

Roll on the rolling road day to find out what the increase actually is.

All I need now is another NSX owner with a standard engine, exhaust (oval tips) and induction set up, plus a third party, so we can see if there is a noticable difference from a drive by perspective.

Any volunteers ... Lankstarr :?: :!: :?:

Now you've run it for a while and had the RR day - would you still recommend the OEM Box / Apexi filter setup. i'm quite keen on getting this product and would value your views...

[Lankstarr]

Hi Steve,

the RR day showed that this air filter has a 3hp decrease in power over the stock filter. from a noise and psycological perspective it is worthwhile... but from a power perspective it seems to decrease power.

what do you think about that MJ!!!???

L*

[Steveycaz]

Hi Steve,

the RR day showed that this air filter has a 3hp decrease in power over the stock filter. from a noise and psycological perspective it is worthwhile... but from a power perspective it seems to decrease power.

what do you think about that MJ!!!???

L*
Thanks Luke. It is tempting nonetheless just to 'impove' induction noise, especially on the 3.0 which seems slightly less throaty than a 3.2. The whole car makes me smile whenever I drive it, but the engine note is a BIG factor - But hey, I'm just superficial :D !

Has anyone tried the SuperSucker from Dali?

[Paul]

Now you've run it for a while and had the RR day - would you still recommend the OEM Box / Apexi filter setup. i'm quite keen on getting this product and would value your views... Got your PM Steve ... here's a swift written run down on the differences between the RR runs:
There was a minimal advantage in peak bhp when using the OEM box ... 3bhp,
There was a small advantage in bhp and torque when using the OEM box below 4,500rpm ... up to about 8bhp and up to about 12lbs/ft torque
There was better torque and bhp over about 7,200rpm using the OEM box,
The is an advantage in torque and bhp when using the Apexi box ... up to about 5lbs/ft more toque and up to about 5bhp more ... between about 5,900rpm and 6,700rpm

Through all other rev ranges there really was very little between them ... in fact they were so similar it's not even worth detailing ... in real world driving conditions I doubt anyone would really be able to tell the difference in performance between them ... although I thought to start with the Apexi was better ... this turned out to be psychological due to the extra noise!

The only thing to give away which box is fitted is to be found in the cabin when you plant your right foot ... the Apexi gives you a better noise ... well as far as I'm concerned it does.

Steve ... I'm not sure when I'll next be taking the NSX out of the garage ... Monday might be a possibility ... but when she does venture back outside I'll let you know and if you're about I'll take you for a spin so you can hear the difference.

[Steveycaz]

Thanks Paul. Monday may be the last sunny day we get. Give me warning maybe sunday and I'll bring my X in.

Luke - you around Monday? Would be good to meet up again.

[Senninha]

Has anyone tried the SuperSucker from Dali?

From a non technical perspective, it appears that installing an air filter alone is a neglible performance mod, however, as Paul says it does enhance the cabin and driveby vocals :)

I believe a number of owners now have some form of enhanced scoop installed. Minch and myself have this together with airbox AND exhaust upgrades. By completing the 'whole' end2end upgrade of letting more in and more out, then the benefits combine to deliver the improved readings aswell as, IMO, an improved driving experience with power available earlier in the rev range.

For me the torque gains are more beneficial giving even swifter acceleration in all gears. :D

HTH

[NSXGOD]

Hi Steve,
the RR day showed that this air filter has a 3hp decrease in power over the stock filter. from a noise and psycological perspective it is worthwhile... but from a power perspective it seems to decrease power.
what do you think about that MJ!!!???
L*

I don't think anything of it without looking at the raw data.

1) peak measurements are meaningless, the total area "under the curve" is what is important, and I have not seen that either.

2) the before and after dyno tests need to be performed as soon as practical on the same day, on the same machine, by the same tech to have any relevance to each other.

3) on most dynos that I have used, +/- 1% is well within the variation error factor of the machine on the measurement on different "pulls". -3HP is within that margin of error.

If you want to do a more valid test of ANY mod, you would want to put the car on the dyno, run it 3X and get the data as a spreadsheet output every 50 rpm from 2000-8000. Average all the runs together to get one plot.

Take the car off the dyno and unplug the ECU so it forgets the previous tune, and then do the mod. Then run the car on the road for 15-20 minutes hard so that the ECU can reset.

Put it back on the dyno and repeat the baseline test procedure (3X and average the data etc.) making sure that the coolant temps (both oil and water) are the same as during the baseline test.

Then you can compare the two sets of numbers in a more objective and controlled fashion.

JMO :mrgreen:


*I do not monitor ANY of the forumns anywhere for "what do you think of this MJ?" questions - if you want me to opine on something - send me an e-mail (daliracing@juno.com).

[Paul]

MJ's comments are quite valid ... the two runs were done within minutes of each other as the air-boxes were swapped over with the car still on the rollers ... whether this is the best way of having conditions being as close as is reasonably practical I wouldn't like to say ... MJ's system is probably more reliable for producing a better data set ... but we were limited with the number of runs possible ... so we made the best of the time we had.

I'll try and get a photo of the combined graph so that people can look at the raw data, rather than my written interpretation.

[Steveycaz]

I do monitor ALL forums in the sad hope of finding 'what do you think of this SC?' questions!

Isn't opine to do with sheep?

[AR]

Well I am happy with the GruppeM NSX Special Air Cleaner!

[Paul]

I do monitor ALL forums in the sad hope of finding 'what do you think of this SC?' questions! lol ... not sure if that's a good thing or not ... ;-)
Isn't opine to do with sheep? Ah ... you're thinking of 'ovine' ... 'opine' is more to do with ... voicing your opinion, or speaking your mind ... as it were.

[Steveycaz]

lol ... not sure if that's a good thing or not ... ;-) Ah ... you're thinking of 'ovine' ... 'opine' is more to do with ... voicing your opinion, or speaking your mind ... as it were.

Thanks Paul - I'll update my lexicon.

[Paul]

Thanks Paul - I'll update my lexicon. That's quite alright my young apprentice ... there is nothing wrong in making an effort to ameliorate oneself ... :-D

[Senninha]

That's quite alright my young apprentice ... there is nothing wrong in making an effort to ameliorate oneself ... :-D

Your grasp of the English language is beyond contestation :cool:

[Paul]

Your grasp of the English language is beyond contestation :cool: Ah ... it is he with the exhaust that is audibly mose sublime ... you are too kind ... :-)

[Rob_Fenn]

I've wasted much money on filters for various cars, and without a remap, i've never had much of an advantage. I always find it quite funny when you see Supras etc. with big HKS open Mushroom filters. People are completely sold on the brand...