Where did Pandes NSX go???

[andyds2k]

Well it actually went to me back in September and a public thanks to Pande for putting up with me while we came to a conclusion on the deal.
Although I love the car we haven't been seeing eye to eye (the NSX and me that is). On the day a brought it back home it stalled and would not start again. At first I thought it was me, but no. Everytime I tried the key it would not start, so I called the AA. I wasn't expecting much help in getting in going and sure enough after 3 hrs the guy gave up. I only called them out so that I could get a tow home anyway (was only 1 mile from home). At least he gave me an idea as to what the problem was, no power to the fuel pump.
Next morning after looking through the service manual 91, I narrowed down the choices one being the main relay and/or fuel pump relay as well as hoping that the wiring hadn't changed much between a 99 and a 91. After a few choice measurements across the fuel pump resistor, sure enough no power, so now time to locate the main relay and fuel pump relay (PS yes I did check all the fuses were ok before all this).
The relays are located behind the rear panel behind the seats, so now after only one day of ownership I was stripping the car apart. Removing the panel was simple, a few clips and done, and I could see all the relays. In fact there are quite a few relays and "black boxes". Found the fuel pump relay and again no power, so now check the main relay. Hang on, its not there!!!...well it should be to the right of the ECU, but no!..now I though I was in trouble. Trying to work things out from a 91 manual on a 99 NSX. I searched and searched for the relay but I couldn't find it....I thought it is going to have to go to the dealers. So I decided to search NSXprime, and it must have been my lucky day because there was a post asking the same question, where is the main relay? In turns out that it had been moved to the right of the ECU. In fact I had to take the rear side panel off behind the drivers seat and the weather strip to find it located to the right, behind a mass of wiring. Eventually got the relay out and pulled it apart and what did I find was a "dry" solder joint in the circuit board. A quick resolder of the joint, plugged it back in and the NSX started first time, with no problems...this brought a smile back to my face.

Anyway weeks progressed and still there was something wrong, it would drop very low on idle when stopping at junctions and then pop back to normally idle, almost stalling in the process. It also became or was always a problem in pulling away. I always thought the engine was running a little rough, but one night it became very difficult to drive smoothly. Not sure why this was the case, but may be it was more of a realisation there was always something wrong and a car of this standard should be better. Almost decided to sell it and keep the S2000. So I put it into the dealers for a service and asked them to check the valve clearances and while the covers were off check the timing belt was on correctly, even though the belt had been replaced in the last 10k and the valves had been adjusted (just a feeling that the previous dealers had got it wrong). Sure enough the dealer (Norton Way) confirmed the timing belt was incorrectly fitted. Picked it up a few days later and I couldn't believe the difference, no longer does the idle drop so low and pulling away is so much easier and smoother.

So me and the NSX have been having a battle and thankfully we are living happily together now and enjoying every minute.

[AR]

When I test drove it it felt fine, I attributed the iddle to the test pipes and the magnaflow. Glad you are enjoying it. One of the cleanest looking NSX out there.

Cheers,

AR

[andyds2k]

What test pipes and the magnaflow are you referring to. I thought it was stock? Mind you having been very busy with work I haven't had much time to look around in detail, and only have time to drive it back and forth to work.

[WhyOne?]

Ah-ha!!

Andy, I had been wondering what had happened to you and your quest for an NSX.

Please to hear you made it, though I must say the problems you encountered early in your ownership would have put the fear of god into me.

Well done for perservering and getting the car running as it should.

All the best

Ianl from S2ki!

[andyds2k]

On my first day of ownership I thought I had one hell of expensive garden ornament on the drive. To say the least I thought what a big mistake I had made. It was all just coincidence that the relay broke on the day I picked it up. If only I picked it up one day later :-).

I have been so busy that I haven't even had time to wash it yet, maybe this weekend.

[TheQuietOne]

What an ornament though....;)

[AR]

I think Pande was returning it to stock. The exhaust was very nice, but too free flowing for my taste.

Cheers,

AR

[Nick Graves]

:D

Soon as I was reading your post, I was thinking, "sounds like the dry solder joints that they're always grumbling about on PreludeUK!"

Hondas are so bloody consistent.

In which case, that mis-timed cam concerns me slightly; it is recommended that the 'Lude's tensioners are replaced with the belts, since they get weak and allow the belt to jump. I wonder if the same is the case with your car?

In which case, you have possibly been more lucky with Pande's car than you realise!

[AR]

:D

Soon as I was reading your post, I was thinking, "sounds like the dry solder joints that they're always grumbling about on PreludeUK!"

Hondas are so bloody consistent.

In which case, that mis-timed cam concerns me slightly; it is recommended that the 'Lude's tensioners are replaced with the belts, since they get weak and allow the belt to jump. I wonder if the same is the case with your car?

In which case, you have possibly been more lucky with Pande's car than you realise!

Every week someone posts about the main relay, makes you paranoid sometimes.

[andyds2k]

:D

In which case, that mis-timed cam concerns me slightly; it is recommended that the 'Lude's tensioners are replaced with the belts, since they get weak and allow the belt to jump. I wonder if the same is the case with your car?

In which case, you have possibly been more lucky with Pande's car than you realise!

Now I am going to get paranoid about the cam belt tensioner. The question is what should I do. All I know is that the cam belt was replaced 10k miles ago and when I drove the car I always thought something was amiss. Even before I bought it I had a listen to Simonprelude's NSX and could hear a distinct difference. Now after having the cam belt refitted I doubt there is much difference. It still begs the question was it fitted incorrectly or did it slip a tooth. I know its possible, but is it plausible to slip only one tooth? It wasn't as if I was taking it easy on the engine, so I would have thought that if the tensioner wasn't correct, I'm sure I would have had an expensive garden ornament for real:-)

[Accelera Comigo]

Is it possible that a belt can move around one of the pulleys to engage in a new location just because of slack?

It sounds like you would need a lot of slack. If the tooth height is 3.5mm and the belt has 120 degrees wrap around the pulley you would need 7.3mm of slack. Possible I suppose.

But if the cam timing of either inlet or exhaust was out by a tooth wouldn't you get contact between valves and pistons?

Any experts out there?

Having experienced how diligent the Honda technicians are I am surprised they missed a worn tensioner at the previous service.

AC

[AR]

When I car drove fine and it was only the free flowing exhaust ( no cats ) that cause it to have a slight hesitation. WShen I drove it on the M42 it V-Tecd no problem at all, are you sure the cam belt was not right? Pande showed me the receipts for the cam belt change and I find it hard to believe that the Honda dealer will mess it up.

[Senninha]

Andy,

You've had tough intro to NSX ownership, hopefully that is the end of your troubles! For my 2p's worth, if you've any doubt ref the tensioner, have the dealer check/replace it.

Enjoy your NSX.

regards

[andyds2k]

When I car drove fine and it was only the free flowing exhaust ( no cats ) that cause it to have a slight hesitation. WShen I drove it on the M42 it V-Tecd no problem at all, are you sure the cam belt was not right? Pande showed me the receipts for the cam belt change and I find it hard to believe that the Honda dealer will mess it up.

I have the reciepts for the cam belt change, but I don't find it hard for a Honda dealer to mess it up. I'm not sure the dealer in questions is an approved NSX dealer either.

Am I sure the cam belt was wrong?, about as sure as it was fitted correctly in the first place.

[WhyOne?]

.... but I don't find it hard for a Honda dealer to mess it up......

I agree.

Given my (non-cambelt) related experiences wiuth Trident Honda, Weybridge, I am convinced that there are some very inept service dept's out there (and Trident are NSX specialists!!!!!)

[TheQuietOne]

I agree.

Given my (non-cambelt) related experiences wiuth Trident Honda, Weybridge, I am convinced that there are some very inept service dept's out there (and Trident are NSX specialists!!!!!)
I would be a little careful naming names on a public forum personally...just my £0.02...

Maybe a 'round robin' PM of experiences would be a safer bet.

[WhyOne?]

I understand what you are saying, and if NSXCB forum admin. and/or the majority of forum users feel this sort of thing is 'bad form', of course I will desist. I personally feel that non-vindictive recounting of dealership experiences (good as well as bad) form a valuable part of online car forums.

I have been in written communication with both the service manager and general manager of Trident for some 3 months now. I am failing to get anywhere significant with a number of problems. I have explained to them that I will be recounting my experiences on a number of online forums and in the motoring press (I have had a couple of 'Ownership/Dealership Experience' articles published in CAR magazine in the past) in what I hope they will agree is an objective balanced way.

As another forum member (former owner of Y1) was involved in the early exchanges with Trident, I am able to semi-independently substantiate my claims. I will as a matter of coutesy make the good people at Trident, along with a senior contact of my acquaintance within Honda UK, fully aware of the location / content of my postings, thus giving them right of reply should they feel mis-represented.

[AR]

Well said Why one, why should one put up with crap from Honda or anyone else.

[TheQuietOne]

Sounds pretty comprehensive, I only raised the point as it was something I was picked up on over a year ago on here, and didn't want you walking into something unaware. It appears you are so I'll keep out ;).

I hope you also get resolution with Trident...

[WhyOne?]

I only raised the point as it was something I was picked up on over a year ago on here, and didn't want you walking into something unaware.

Thanks - and no problem.

I'm a newbee here and I certainly don't want to do anything to upset users of the forum.

However, if I end up upseting Trident - and they will have had more than fair notice - so be it!!!!

[sportyking]

Ian, do it!!

The most likely explanation to the belt being one tooth out is that it was fitted that way.
It is ultra rare for belts to slip one tooth only, once they move they usually jump a number of teeth and the inside of the belt will show evidence of the jump.
It would also follow that the belt would appear slack or the tensioner offer little resistance on the follow up investigation as tensioners do not repair themselves.
Belts can rarely jump in a serious mechanical over-rev situation, such as finding third instead of fifth on a high speed downchange so this could be worthy of consideration.
The other thing I haven't yet seen mentioned is whether one cam or both were a tooth out, if one it had to be done during fitting.
It is quite easy (but still unforgiveable) to get it wrong if you do not have the correct locking tools, which a non-specialist NSX dealer may not have to hand?? This is speculation as I do not know the procedure for an NSX but others I have knowledge of all use specialist tools which back street garages rarely have. I improvised on my old Escort (gone at last) and used a plastic ruler!

[WhyOne?]

Ian, do it!!



Hello stranger!!!!!

[sportyking]

Must get your anti roll bar over to you some time Ian, or feel free to to pick it up! Even though I'm not there someone usually is. You could see the Atom as well, complete with scars from some dozy cow reversing over the top of it while in a local parking space. How can you not notice an Atom!!!!!!
I definately don't get around as much as I used to but the new job is not quite as all consuming as I envisaged.

[WhyOne?]

Oh bugger - sorry to hear about the Atom. Presumably it will get sorted via (her) insurance??? Hope it is as painless as these things can be (though I cant see your/her insurance co's 'approved' repairer knowing one end of an Atom from the other.

Thanks for the reminder re. the anti-roll bar - I hear wht you are saying about just poping around to collect it and someone being there to hand it over, but is there a time/day when I am more or less likely to catch you? (dont panic, nothing sinister, Y1 is absolutely fine despite the best efforts of Trident, I would just be interested to catch up and chew the fat!)

[Pande]

Hi to all

Havnt been on this site for a while.

Brings back too many nice memories of the NSX.

Andy im very sorry to here about the problems with the car. Just seems strange because if the car was not running right I would have picked up on it throughout the two years of ownership.

But If the dealers did put the belt on wrong they need to be told.

Anyway glad to here all is well and you are enjoying NSX ownership.

Regards

Pande X NSX

[AR]

Nice to see you by here Pande, I hope to have some £££ saved next year to pay you a visit about a full paint job to your standards.

Cheers,

AR

[Pande]

For you Ary

Anytime.

I hope to buy my way back into the NSX world in a year or two so ill keep passing by here.

Are the rumors true about Simon wanting to sell. I never thought id see the day.

[Nick Graves]

First off, if anyone has a problem/query with a dealership, we need to hear it - that's one of the points of these things. Even if it turns out the poster is in the wrong, we can probably put them straight and save them making a bigger twat of themselves.

I detest all forms of censorship - it ends up like UK's version of democracy ultimately.

It most probably IS the case that the belt was mis-installed - Soon as you release the tensioner so it takes up the slack, the belt turns by about - one tooth! You have to pull it down all the time over the cam pulleys and keep it taught on the front-side of the engine. Which is easy if you've got two pairs of telescopic hands.

I have to say that since 'Ludes are best off with changed tensioners, & the S2000 have problems (admittedly it's a proper chain-drive) with their tensioners too, I'd probably recommend that NSX owners consider having theirs changed with the belt. It's a £100 job on a 'Lude, for safety. OK, if it's too expensive (ie, lose the engine first!) job on the NSX d(I've not bothered to RTFM!) then, OK, that's different.

[TheQuietOne]

One of the things I like about this site is the lack of swearing...and I'm all for no censorship, but as with swearing there is a time and a place for everything!

;)

[Accelera Comigo]

It's interesting how different these forums can be and how they reflect the nature of the car they are devoted to.

I had a VX220 turbo for a year, a rubbish car to to own if you're wondering, severe handling problems due to a funny rear suspension set up and too much weight at the rear. The forum was really catty, bitchy ......... childish I guess and yes that does reflect the ownership.

I have a BMW 330d as a legacy from my commute and the forums suffer from a snobbish kind of know-it-all attitude mixed in with incredible levels of anorakiness over a car that I considered to be a sofa on wheels.

This site is the best by far and again reflects the car - knowledgeable and understated. I wasn't surprised to see an objection to swearing but I had to search the previous reply to find the offending word.

AC

[Nick Graves]

??

The "twat' was picking up on a previous post & "RTFM" is a ubiquitous term originating in IT.

Still, on an Austin-Rover website, "BMW" is considered an obscenity, so these things are relative.

[TheQuietOne]

??

The "twat' was picking up on a previous post & "RTFM" is a ubiquitous term originating in IT.

Still, on an Austin-Rover website, "BMW" is considered an obscenity, so these things are relative.

What the hell are you doing on an Austin-Rover website in the first place!

I was only playing in response to your response to my respone.....but it is refreshing that this site keeps the conversation clean and topical!

[Nick Graves]

What the hell are you doing on an Austin-Rover website in the first place!

I was only playing in response to your response to my respone.....but it is refreshing that this site keeps the conversation clean and topical!

:D

There IS a Honda connection. Honest! The reliable bits, mostly.

It is fascinating to read about the vacillation, bad decisions, flaccid management, political interference...honestly, you couldn't make it up. It's amazing it lasted over 40 years, TBH.

It's very well researched and it's not all rose-tinted. Well, some bits are.

I can highly recommend it as an absorbing read!