Rice Rocket arrival imminent!

[MattS]

Mo and I should get delivery of our Rice Rocket exhausts from Dali today.
Once we've got them sorted out we'll post how much they cost including shipping, VAT and fitting etc, and of course whether they're any good or not!
Am I right in thinking they'll be quite noisy at first 'til we lay down some carbon in the pipes? If so, how many miles do you reckon it'll take?
Thanks,
Matt

[Senninha]

I'm pretty sure this is the system Nick (Greybloke) is running on his 3.0

regards

[NSXGB]

.....and Kowalski (?)....very loud.

[Senninha]

I dont know how many miles Leigh has on his system, but if it is the same then its still bl***y loud :shock: :shock: as I found out on the way to Goodwood.

You msy some ear plugs until you get that carbon coating ;)

[markc]

I too have the Dali RR system with the Sliced tips so that it looks the same as the stock JDM one. Had it on the car since May this year and circa 3000 miles.

It is a bit loud and a little boomy at low revs and particularly with low rev wide/throttle openings but is, relatively, quieter at higher revs. Strangely it makes the car "feel" like it's revving lower? You don't quite get the same high rev scream of the stock exhaust more of a howl/blare.
My one at least hasn't got quieter, or indeed louder, with age and carbon coating.

It's also feels like it give a healthy boost to mid range power and torque :-)

I've gone between stock and the RR back to stock (for a trackday) and back to RR again, and it definately "feels" significantly faster in the mid range with the RR fitted.

It was a little obtrusive during my recent 2,500 mile euro trip but more than made up for that in the many, many tunnels :-)

Cheers

Mark

[Greybloke]

I'm pretty sure this is the system Nick (Greybloke) is running on his 3.0

regards

Yes indeed:p
I was on the point of ordering from Dali, when one appeared on ebay. Result. Turns out to be an owner here.

Been on the car some months, sounds fantastic! I've no idea if it results in any extra performance, but it feels that way. Just be aware people will hear you coming from some miles:o When I first fitted the system I was quite embarrased in built up area's, but I can't imagine reverting to stock now, it just gives the car attitude ( and I'm sure more response )

[MattS]

Loud is good. Hopefully a 'cultured' sound though!
Got friends with an AC Cobra replica and a TR6, both with V6's and straight through exhausts and both sound lovely, albeit in a classy sort of way. The NSX needs a bit more Growl and midrange, but I just hope it's a good growler!

[modarr]

[

I've gone between stock and the RR back to stock (for a trackday) and back to RR again, and it definately "feels" significantly faster in the mid range with the RR fitted.


Cheers

Mark[/QUOTE]

Hi Mark,

Did ever get any dB readings?
What trackday did you swap it for? I need to have mine track ready and pass a 101 dB test. Cats are staying on.

I can, if required make up some DIY inserts to reduce noise levels.

Mo

[AR]

Congratulations,

I loved the way the Tubi sounded free flowing, but with cats it was too much like stock. ( I am a bid deaf sometimes :) )

The ARK one I have for sale sounds great, I believe that there was a dispute over this two exhausts on Prime. Some people said that they were the same, and Ted from ARK told eveyone that they are not. If it sounds anything like the ARK DT-S it will be a loud but not annoying.

For me not loud enough LOL hence the reason I am selling mine. So if I can be excused for the Hi-Jack mine is going quite cheap with custom tips.

Cheers,

AR

[kowalski]

I have the Taitec lightweight system on mine including headers and no cats. It Put out 114 db when fitted but has got a little quieter after about 2000 miles running in! Wouldnt change it back to standard and definitely a performance gain!

Leigh

[markc]

Mo,

I did a GoldTrack run evening session at Silverstone on the full GP circuit.

Before the event they made a big fuss about it being a strictly enforced 98db event. I spoke to Melindi, who runs the GoldTrack events, and she said they'd be very strict so I decided to put the stock ststem back on.

At the event there was absolutely no attempt to measure static noise and the 98db was for trackside monitoring. There were loads of very noisy Porsches, Elises, 7s, Caterhams, Ariel and I didn't see one of them warned for excessive noise.

As I gone to the effort of asking beforehand I was a bit annoyed so made them measure my car anyway. The standard setup measured 98db on the static test ie at 1m directly behind the exhaust. No question the Dali RR would have failed a static 98db.

Moral here is, the headline db noise level of the event is meaningless unlesss you know where the measurments will be taken from, so ask specifically.

Cheers

Mark

[modarr]

Thanks Mark,

RMA measure my standard system at 0.5m from tips at a 45 degree angle. This usually reads 89 dB at 4500 rpm., ie very very quiet.

I suspect the Rice Rocket will fail the 101dB limit at Bedford Autod. Looks like I'd better bodge-up some inserts.

If anyone is interested (unlikely I know) B&Q do a perforated sheet steel which can be rolled into a tube. This with some exhaust wadding and a couple of nuts can be inserted in to exhaust tips to act as a silencer without reducing flow excessively as some plain metal tube inserts do.

Mo

[kowalski]

My Static measured at Goodwood was 103 db (limit 105), 45 degrees to the exhaust at 6000 rpm, 114 db was measured trackside and I was flagged in, that was a day after fitting it so was noisier than it is now.

leigh

[gsuds]

Loud is good. Hopefully a 'cultured' sound though!
Got friends with an AC Cobra replica and a TR6, both with V6's and straight through exhausts and both sound lovely, albeit in a classy sort of way. The NSX needs a bit more Growl and midrange, but I just hope it's a good growler!

Sorry to be horrifically pedantic, but TR6s have straight-six motors.

Yes, I will go and get a life now... :oops:

Ary, your exhaust offer is seriously tempting.....

[AR]

Ary, your exhaust offer is seriously tempting.....

PM me if you are interested, as I say I am open to offers.

BTW one of my favourite exhaust notes is the 240Z straight six.

Cheers,

Ary

[modarr]

My Static measured at Goodwood was 103 db (limit 105), 45 degrees to the exhaust at 6000 rpm, 114 db was measured trackside and I was flagged in, that was a day after fitting it so was noisier than it is now.

leigh

I wonder whether keeping the cats on would have kept you within noise limits. I hope the Ricers are a little quiter than the Taitec.

Cool Pic or Avatar or whatever its called.

[mutley]

All this talk about new exhaust and with cats/without cats, can anyone tell me, If I take the cats off my car, will it still pass the MoT emmission tests, or is this the kind of thing where you remove the cats, but put them back on for MoT test then take them off again?

Would love a slightly louder exhaust that the stock one I have on, but only one problem.....I'm skint!

Jim

[Senninha]

Jim,

I'm sure someone will correct if I'm wrong, but I think your's is old enough to run WITHOUT cats and still pass MOT ... providing of course its running ok once removed which a simple ECU reset should ensure.

regards

Paul

[AR]

K reg and under is OK IIRC, but I think that it says somewhere that if the car was fitted with them OEM it has to have them.

[Ciaran]

Been running Dali RR for about 16 -18 months at this stage. I went through the embarrassed stage too, but it passes fairly quickly, as the sound when opened up is great. The only slight drawback is the reverberation (is that how you spell that??) between 2400, 2800 revs, below and above is fine but in that zone its annoying. Now this is not a problem accelerating in first or second ( all 0.2 of the second that it takes.....), however cruising at 65 - 75 in 5th its a problem....

Not that I would change it for a second...


Ciaran

[mutley]

Jim,

I'm sure someone will correct if I'm wrong, but I think your's is old enough to run WITHOUT cats and still pass MOT ... providing of course its running ok once removed which a simple ECU reset should ensure.

regards

Paul
I heard that, also what Ary said, I've also heard that if cats were fitted OEM then they have to be there!!!!

If anyone knows a definitive answer to thins little quandry I'd love to hear it.

Cheers guys
Jim

[AR]

Jim the fact is that the exhaust is the most restrictive part, not the cats, so the first part is the exhaust, headers and lastly and only for the perhaps 5 BHP is the cats. Just my opinion I might add.

[kowalski]

Also the Cats weigh quite a bit compared to the test pipes, especially the titanium ones.

leigh

[modarr]

I heard that, also what Ary said, I've also heard that if cats were fitted OEM then they have to be there!!!!

If anyone knows a definitive answer to thins little quandry I'd love to hear it.

Cheers guys
Jim

I removed the cat from my '89 MX5 and it passes MOT regularly. If you came across an Nazi MOT tester, you may fail but virtually all testers will pass the car.
My tester tells me that if you remove cats from a post '92 car, it will not automatically fail MOT. It depends on the emissions reading from the tail pipe, possibly 'particulates', not sure exactly, but if low enough, the car will still pass.

Mo

[AR]

Also the Cats weigh quite a bit compared to the test pipes, especially the titanium ones.

leigh

The comptech stainless test pipes don't weight mutch at all either.

[simonprelude]

Emissions test

* First used before 1/8/1975 - Visual test only. Failure for excess idle speed, dense blue or black smoke for 5 seconds at idle or during acceleration up to 2500rpm or half engine max speed whichever lowest.

* First used between 1/8/75 and 31/7/86 - meter test CO <=4.5%, HC<=1200ppm.

* First used between 1/8/86 and 31/7/92 - meter test CO<=3.5%, HC<=1200ppm.

* First used between 1/8/92 and 31/7/94 - advanced emission test (CAT) if its running on petrol when presented, to the vehicle specific limits usually around CO<=0.3%, HC<=200ppm and Lambda 0.97 - 1.03. Remember from 1st August 2001 a basic emission test will be carried out initially.

Advanced emission (CAT) test:

CAT test is an unfortunate term which leads many to think that the MOT is testing the Catalytic converter fitted to later vehicles but this is not so.

The MOT is testing emissions, so if the emissions from the tailpipe meet the requirements the vehicle passes. Whether a CAT is fitted is irrelevant. The deciding factor is the vehicles date of first registration. A "Cat" may be fitted to a vehicle which only needs to meet the two gas test and if the emissions are satisfactory, it passes. A "Cat" may have been removed and the vehicle is required to meet the "Cat" test standard by virtue of its first registration date. If the emissions meet the standard then it passes.

Many advanced design engines will meet the "Cat" requirements with a standard exhaust but of course may be emitting other pollutants not subject to the MOT.

Advanced emission tests must be carried out on fully warmed up engines, the oil temperature must be above 80 degrees C (some are set at 60 degrees C) and the idle speed must be within the manufacturers agreed tolerances. Both engine speed and oil temperature will be measured using equipment attached to the gas analyser.

During engine idle the engine must not be subject to electrical loading such as heated seats, heated rear windows and air conditioners. Electric cooling fans do not cause significant problems and can be active during the test.

Twin exhaust systems need to have the reading from each pipe tested and then averaged. A twin exhaust has two separate pipes from the engine manifold all the way back to the tailpipes. Systems with a balance tube between separate pipes are still considered a dual exhaust.

Multi fuel vehicles should be tested on the fuel they are running on when presented for test e.g a vehicle which runs on petrol and LPG and is running on LPG when it's presented, will be tested on LPG. The difficulty is that the hydrocarbons emitted by LPG vehicles are propane rather than hexane so the tester needs to apply a conversion known as the PEF factor, usually marked on the gas analyser, to give a sensible reading.

Where vehicles fail the advanced emission tests, remedial action should concentrate on fundamentals such as plugs, timing, air cleaners, mixture settings and the oxygen sensor before changing expensive catalytic converters. Leaks in the exhaust system are a common source of problems.

One important issue must be cleared up straight away. There is no requirement for a catalytic converter to be fitted to any vehicle, regardless of its age. It is however the most popular way of ensuring engines meet the emission legislation. The MOT test is testing the emissions from the tailpipe and if those emissions meet the standard then the vehicle passes. The term 'cat' test is inappropriate, the correct term is 'advanced emission test'. Its not the 'cat' that's being tested. There are a number of vehicles which are subject to the 'advanced emission test' but are capable of meeting the requirements without the use of a catalytic converter.

Kit cars and amateur built vehicles are regarded as pre 1st August 1975 vehicles for the purposes of MOT emissions testing and are subject to a visual check only. The age of the engine is not taken into account. SVA(single vehicle approval) introduces some problems and these are complex, the SVA manual is the source of information. In a nutshell all vehicles get a "visual check" and vehicles first used after 1/8/75 or with an engine manufactured after this date get a metered check or a CAT test if they are listed in the emissions handbook or are on the emissions tester database. After August 1995 they get a CAT test. Amateur built vehicle SVA emissions tests are based on the vehicle build date unless there is proof that the engine is earlier. If a date cannot be determined, until 31 March 2001 they will get a non CAT test. From the 1st April 2001 the effective date will be assumed to be 1st August 1997, i.e they will get a CAT test unless there is proof of the date of manufacture of the engine. Also, dual fuel (petrol/gas) are tested in both modes.

Personal imports are tested according to date of first use. To claim exemption, a letter from the vehicle manufacturer must be produced at the time of test.

Modified engines must still meet the requirements.

An older engine fitted to a vehicle will be tested to the age of the engine (evidence needed). A newer engine fitted to an older car will be tested to the age of the car i.e whichever is the oldest.

Vehicles which are not passenger cars are tested to different emissions limits in most cases. A passenger car is constructed to carry passengers, has no more than 5 seats excluding the driver, does not exceed 2500kg gross weight and is not a goods vehicle i.e pick-up, van or truck.

It will be necessary for evidence of first used dates to be produced in some cases (personal number plates, 1987's for seat belts and 1992's/94's for emissions) i.e V5 reg document or VE103 for leased/hired vehicles. Some vehicles may have been stored for long periods before being distributed by manufacturers. In these cases, if the vehicle was manufactured at least 6 months before its date of first use then the date of manufacture is used for test requirements.

Engines must be thoroughly warmed up and the oil temperature tested prior to testing (80 degrees C for most "CAT" tests although some are as low as 40 and 80 degrees C for Diesels). It's permissable for the emissions test to be carried out as soon as the vehicle arrives (environmentally friendly too) as long as the rest of the test is carried out on the same day by the same tester.

Any obstructions at the tailpipe which prevent the test probe being inserted will result in failure.

From 1st August 2001 a simplified emissions check was introduced and this will be carried out on vehicles prior to doing a full "CAT" test. If the vehicle meets the requirements during this BETs (basic emission test) then it passes. There will be no need to measure the engine temperature using the analyser probe but the vehicle must be at normal running temperature. However, engine rpm will still be measured. If the vehicle fails the BET then the full "CAT" test is applied.

[AR]

Simon so if it passes BET is OK if not then CAT, but ultimately if the MOT tester is a nob then one is screwed.

Did I understand the meaning of it?

Cheers,

AR

[simonprelude]

So it says :)


Simon so if it passes BET is OK if not then CAT, but ultimately if the MOT tester is a nob then one is screwed.

Did I understand the meaning of it?

Cheers,

AR

[simonprelude]

Have these arrived yet ??

Fitted ??

Sound etc ??

[modarr]

Well,

The saga continues. We ordered two Rice Rockets and one Wishaponastar for someone up North.
Dali sent 3 Rice Rockets and I'm waiting for manifold adaptor pipes that were missed from my order.
The other chap did not receive a replacement and all has gone dead at the Dali since then. I assume he is busy on track, however my patience is beginning to wear a little thin.....I have excellent service from Mark at Dali in the past and am willing to give him every chance to come good.

Matt fitted his Rocket a couple of days ago and is very pleased. The sound on idle is rumbly but not too loud. At wide open throttle its quite loud but general driving its very acceptable. Not the most exotic sound but more gutsy sounding.

What say you Matt?

[NSXGB]

I assume he is busy on track, however my patience is beginning to wear a little thin.....I have excellent service from Mark at Dali in the past and am willing to give him every chance to come good.


Another in the same boat as me, I'm only waiting for brake lines. If you get hold of him, say hello from me.

[MattS]

Very pleased on the whole. The bark now goes with the bite (and there seems to be a bit more bite too - hopefully do some testing this weekend if dry). More drone than before, but it's a nice drone.

As Mo said, not an exotic sound, but a great improvement on the original. The car now has balls it drags along the ground.. More Corvette than Ferrari, more Rimsky-Korsakoff than Elton John!

And the 6 foot flames out the back really impress the geezers on Welling High Street.

I just hope Mark from Dali Racing gets Mo's pipes to him in time for Christmas......