TCS and Engine Check Light

[mcibuk]

Had my car out at the weekend and after about 1/2 hour pottering about maeaning everything was nicely warmed up, i put my foot down on motorway slip road and whilst everything seems perfectly normal the TCS and CE warning lights lit up.
I pulled over, switched off and checked the manual which suggests it could be an emissions fault. On restart, the warning lights go off but relight after a couple of seconds and stay lit. The manual suggests driving steadily is OK and to have dealer check the car.
I've read back thru previous threads and think the problem could be oxygen sensor(s)? I've also downloaded the Maintenance manual which provides guidance on self diagnosing the faults by connecting jump wire across the service connector and counting the blinks in the CEL. I've never had to do this before and am prepared to do so but i'm looking to the experts amongst you to reassure and guide me thru please
The maintenance manual doesn't appear to discuss what to do if both lights are on as is the case!
Your help as usual, very welcome and appreciated!

[TheQuietOne]

I would think James (Papalazarou) is the man for the job of answering this one...last time I spoke to him he had so many lights on, on his dash board he was thinking of making a Christmas tree template as an overlay....

I would try a post on Prime to if you haven't already. Good luck, Matt.

[AR]

Pull out your clock fuse to reset your ECU and see if it goes away.

Cheers,

AR

[cas]

Hi

Simple things to check:

1. Break lights- are any off or dim? Break lights have a sensor built in to detect if a bulb is out or low and will switch on you TCS light if they are.
2. Rubber - are your rear tyres worn? The TCS compares the speed of the front and rear wheels if they differ bit more than 6% it puts on the TCS light.

Anything else you need the diagnostic codes - do it yourself or pop down to Honda to get them to read them out for you.

General: the NSX does not go wrong if used regularly - but the are alot of things to cease up if you do not. Recently my ABS light came on after not using it for a while. I fixed it by taking it out and on a quiet lane giving it a good stomp on the brakes. Cleared the problem but frightened a few sheep.

Good luck!

[blue5]

Hi,

I advised another forum member on just that topic this weekend.

The connector is in the passenger footwell under the carpet.

Get a thick piece of copper wire, i used a piece of ring main earth and bend it double to insert into the connector.

switch in the ignition and count the flashes.

There will be 2 groups of flash

The first group is the main heading and the 2nd is the sub group

If you miss count then ign off and on again.

Refer to the chart on page 19-46

It will take a few minutes to do from start to finish

Then phone honda for the price of the part

A firm chair with arms is advisible at this point!74

[Papalazarou]

Probably an oxygen sensor. But I couldn't tell you which one.

If it is, your local Honda dealer will charge you over £300.00 fitted.
However, you can buy a fuel-parts one from a motor factor for around £75.00.
Some people have found them for half that but not sure where.

Also, they aren't rocket science to fit. But if you don't fancy doing it, just take it to a good independent.

Cheers,


James.

[blue5]

When my rear lambda sensor failed i only knew when if failed its mot on emissions,

It cost me £90 delivered from a honda dealer in the usa.

ps there are 2 sensors, one is easy to get at one is less easy

Mine was the less easy!

[mcibuk]

Thanks for all the helpful replies folks.
I tried resetting the ECU by removing the clock fuse but alas the warnings still persist!
I'm going to try to establish the the fault codes next and go from there.
I'm more than likely going to try and replace the sensors which i believe are in the exhaust manifolds? Does anything have to be removed to get at the sensors or are they just awkward? I have a garage pit so can get right under the car but if the exhaust has to come off then i'll refer it to a dealer!
Thanks again folks

[Papalazarou]

Yes, you must remove the engine!

Actually, it's pretty simple. The rear one is easy to see and can be accessed from underneath. I haven't done a front one but it looks a little trickier.
NSXeter did one the other day, you could PM him to see how he got on.

Cheers,


James.

[duncan]

Don't guess, follow the procedure blue5 lists, it is as easy as that [assuming a 3.0l car]
Repacement of the front CO2 sensor, again from underneath, a full sized open ended spanner [22mm] should be the tool of choice.
OEM style replacement supplied by local Partco with next day delivery for £68.00 plus delivery and VAT. [2 years ago] Manufacturer was Facet, their part no was 107734, the original sensor was ND ref NS6 065500-9720 03Q.
Whilst Honda list different part nos for front and rear it is because the lead lengths are different lengths.

[Lankstarr]

2 questions please...

- are the front and back sensors the same if one were to order one from Partco? - What do you mean by saying that lead lengths are different lengths!?

- is it much different to perform this operation on a 3.2 than a 3.0?

Thanks

Luke

[WhyOne?]

2 questions please...

- are the front and back sensors the same if one were to order one from Partco? - What do you mean by saying that lead lengths are different lengths!?

- is it much different to perform this operation on a 3.2 than a 3.0?

Thanks

Luke

That's 3 questions!

(Nothing more helpful to add I'm afraid!!!!!)

[duncan]

The 3.2 cars have 4 sensors, up and downstream of the cats for each of the banks, check the US site www.sparkplugs.com for NKG or Denso references. The 3.0 cars have have only 1 sensor per bank, each set within the manifold itself.
The 3.2 cars are OBD11 compliant whilst the 3.0 cars inc 1995 onward fly by wire are OBD1.
The downloadable works manual ifrom Prime which gives all the blink codes is for OBDI,
I do not know if a similar/the same jumper terminal is on the 3.2s, ask a 3.2 owner.
If you check the Prime site, our US friends refer to "having the CEL codes read", so the reading is possible, I just don't know how.
Likewise for the OBD11 codes they are [I understand] different to the earlier protocol, the intention of the car industry is that the codes are common for all manufacturers
For 3.0 cars, the sensor itself and the plug at the other end are both common, it's merely the length between that is different, I don't know which one is longer or shorter or by how much. The Denso original is 18" between the inner faces of the connector and the sensor, for the front sensor.
The sensors fitted to the NSX are of the 4 wire type, the faults with a sensor itself are either the sensor itself or the heater, if its a heater error its not a big problem as the pre heating to the sensor is only of benefit when the exhaust is relatively cold on start up.
The sensors are sensitive to contaminants, such as copperslip, silicone glue, WD40 etc, so if you have "broken" an adjacent exhaust or manifold joint that may have introduced a failure.

[Lankstarr]

Some useful info there Duncan - thanks.

I have the service manual from prime (thanks Paul) but as you say this is only fo rthe 3.0.

My local Honda garage were very helpful in fitting my new thermostat so I dont think they would kick up a fuss if asked for a diagnostic test. You mention the heater, could the fact that my car was cold when tested have adversely affected the emmissions? Just that before I had the thermostat changed it took ages to warmn up so may have been MOT tested cold last time.

Many thanks

Luke

[Silver Surfer]

Guys,

I have just purchased a 1991 red black NSX several months back which had problem with the TCS. I have replaced the TCS ECU and both front ABS sensors as recommended by my local Honda garage. The TCS button's green light is now lit up permanently unless I switch off the TCS. Is this normal?

SS

[AR]

The green light it is normal on the early cars.

[duncan]

Luke,
If you're still looking for your OBD11 sensor, see this prime site query, ....it could be anywhere!
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81077
have fun
Duncan

[mcibuk]

Thanks for all the advice and info - I've just got round to making a diagnosis and believe i have fault code 42 which is the O2 rear sensor heater. I can't get a resistance reading across the heater terminals and i can't also get any continuity to ground so i think the sensor must be faulty?
Having also looked at "Prime" website, the general concensus seems to be that the removal is a real pig of a job and looking at just now i can see why!
I was thinking about getting a universal sensor which requires splicing the wires together rather than having the connector block fitment - this should also mean i can get a ring spanner around the sensor - is this a good way to go? Any advice about using WD40 etc as there seems to be a risk of sensor contamination a future premature failure!
Looking at Prime they recommend using the "sensor wrench" which is only around $15 - will this be the same fitment as European cars?
Thanks again for help!

[AR]

How old is your car?

I believe the sensors are the same for US and UK cars.

Have you checked with Dali?

Cheers,

AR

[Lankstarr]

Luke,
If you're still looking for your OBD11 sensor, see this prime site query, ....it could be anywhere!
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81077
have fun
Duncan

Thanks Duncan, I'm waiting for more friendly weather before I investigate this further!

[mcibuk]

My car is August 95 and i was going to check prices and availability with Dali once i know the correct parts to ask for.
Thanks,

[mcibuk]

Sorry to drag this thread from the past but as i've just succesfully replaced the rear oxygen sensor i thought i would share with you the cost and method.
There are numerous sensors available from NGK to Denso in various forms from generic to OEM and the difference in cost is staggering with quotes for the sensor alone in excess of £180.
I decided to try a generic version which you can get from e-bay for around £16 and see waht happens - at that price i wouldn't complain if it only lasts half the life of an OEM part which is what some folks have suggested!
The rear sensor is located in a really awkward spot but by removong a cross brace the job was easy using a long reach sensor socket and ratchet spanner. An experienced motor engineer did the job for me including the splicing, crimping and heat shrink sealing of the sensor wires - in total it took him 90 minutes and cost me £50.
All is now well - just remains to be seen how long the "cheap" sensor lasts!