Driver training?

[Minch]

I'm looking to use the car a little more for track days. She will still stay as a road car but maybe visit 4-5 times a year. Have to see if I can find enough time!

However I have limited knowledge of track racing. I used to do a lot of motorcross riding when I was young, as well as stints at karting. I'm now looking to hone the natural skills ( :) ) by taking driver training for track driving. Any suggestions on how I should appraoch this?

Who are the best teachers?

What format is best i.e. one to one or group lessons?

Is it worth following the path to a racing license?

What sort of cost would I be looking at?

PS . . . If I find it fun I might have to buy another car as well . . . I'm not going to ruin the NSX!

[Kevin]

Training is the way to go. I do track days with RMA, and once Graham Clarke said that with about 6 lessons, lap times will be faster and, wear and tear on the car will be less. He wasn't wrong. I was lucky in that I had the same teacher for each lesson, spread over 6 track days. Also at the same track.

Also I have done a day with Don Palmer. He's a bit weird. He doesn't teach you, but rather lets you find out what happens when a car does certain things, so you can learn for yourself. A day with him will be spent spinning the car, and learning how to recognise the signs, and being able to control the car.

The two go together. Don will say that you can't learn how to control a spin unless you are spinning. On the track, you don't really want to be spinning the car in the first place, so how will you learn that there? Track day lessons can vary in quality. Some teachers are little more than wannabe race drivers, mine were more experienced. You will get a hour of lesson along with your day of track driving. Don Palmer is more one to one though £400 a day, but on a empty track/space.

A car control course will be done at a airfield or somewhere big. Speeds will be lower. Track day instructors will usually tell you when to turn, when to brake. You don't learn 'how to drive' as it were.

A race license is fairly easy to get, and doesn't require training. Some of my friends have race licences, and they just turned up did the exam, and took the drive test. You only have to lap within a certain time (not too hard), not spin, be smooth and you're done.

You will probably get as many different opinions as you will replies to this. These are my opinions and my experience. 4-5 times a year in an NSX, will result in maybe two sets of brake pads, a set of tyres, and a change of oil after each day (well I do).

[Minch]

Thanks Kevin, thats great feedback. Which track does Don Palmer train at? I suppose there is a long waiting list for that kind of thing too.

How far spaced were your training days? Did you book all of them at the same time?

I would also change the oil after each track day. Might have to start stocking up on brake pads. The biggest problem still is what bl**dy tyres to go for. Obviously with the OEM 16"/17" combo its a pain in the neck getting the same all round. Do you still use the same combo or are yours 17's?

[Silver Surfer]

OEM wheel size 15''/16'' is even worst in getting the right tyres!

Kevin, Can you provide exact details on where the track days are held by your recommended instructors and contact details?

SS

[Kevin]

I do track days with RMA. Unfortunately now, they no longer run days in the UK, preferring to use overseas tracks.

My training days were all done at Bedford. The instructors are those supplied by RMA, not the wannabe's at Bedford itself. It's pot luck as to who you get you're not actually paying a particular instructor. However, RMA instructors are ex-F1 or touring car types.

The Don Palmer day was at Bruntingthorpe. Myself, Andrew and another friend attended. While he was in the car with one of us, the other two got to play round the rest of the track.

There's plenty of such one-to-one training available. 1st Lotus or something like that does them.

I did one day a month for 6 months over winter a couple of years ago. Winter is great, as speeds are slower, less wear on the car. The days are also cheaper, up to half price of summer days. There's nothing wrong in training in the wet either.

I have 17" wheels now. Though I use cheap tyres, as they only last a day or two anyway. I also take my own petrol and sandwiches, but then, I am that tight.

What do you mean you can't get 16/17 tyres? www.camskill.co.uk (http://www.camskill.co.uk). Get some 225/45/16 and 255/40/17 Toyo T1-R. I used to use that size with Bridgestone S03's, no problems.

[Minch]

Kevin,

Do you know if anyone has used Yoko A048's? I used to have them on my Elise and were fantastic on such a light car once warmed up. However not so sure that they would be worth the extra. Do you know anyone else who has used them? Or for that matter Toyo R888's?

[blue5]

Minch,

There is a track day looming at bedford in april. Its on a saturday, and i am trying to get papalazarou along so perhaps you might like to come as well?

Re preparations the only thing i would suggest is change the brake fluid before the track day just to help prevent any brake problems, but dont worry too much as you will find you will only do a few laps at a time between rests.

There is no obligation to drive fast or like a loony and the event is well marshalled so you go out and come in when you want, no pressure at all.

In my elise i can manage about 10 laps at a time but after that i am knackered (the concentration!) but there is no effect on the car,

If you want to come with us pm me

[Minch]

blue5,

I've booked one with my friend for the 9th April (Monday). I'll get more details from him today to confirm. We chose a weekday as its easier for both of us. So the offer is returned. Fancy joining us?

We are both going to use my car. He has done quite a few track days before so hopefully get a little guidence. He was also a pretty good competition karter in his younger years and is a massive DC2 fan! (He imports *** cars as well as being an aircraft engineer!)

I've hardly even bedded in my new brakes yet so sound be a good testing ground for them.

[Minch]

Kevin,

Re: your earlier post on the matter of tyres. The current shoes on the NSX are 215/45/16 and 245/40/17. These are obviously different to the ones you are suggesting. Will they still fit/act the same? Sorry for being a complete dunce but on the subject but surely it has to make some sort of difference, hasn't it?

[Senninha]

Will they still fit/act the same?
Probably extra grip/footprint to the rear and maybe a inner arch rubbing issue on the front considering how low your NSX is IMO. Remember the Elise set up, narrow at front from the factory to dial in understeer for the masses. Fit the wider (Exige) tyre and understeer dramatically reduced. I would think same logic applies to NSX.

regards, Paul

[Minch]

Yes, I'm going to take the NSX back in to Plans. Might even get some slightly taller springs fitted. Such a pain though. Does anyone still make the OEM size tyres?

[Senninha]

Does anyone still make the OEM size tyres?
Speak to Robert Coakes at Redstar in Braintree, visits here occasionally as the Tireman. He has a 3.0 FHC similar age to your and has been trying out several vendors for road and track tyres. I drove his on MIchelin cup tyres and grip was awesome once warmed up. I think he is offering a semi slick tyre from Hancook(?) at present which he was pleased with when I last spoke to him, even tho he hadnt done many miles on them.

01376 347452

HTH, Paul

[Minch]

Thanks Paul, I'll give him a bell tomorrow.

[blue5]

Minch,

I would love to attend but i have been ordered to visit the relatives over easter!

My name is on the reserve list for the friday event but i doubt i will get on as it is heavily oversubscribed.

There is one on the saturday the 14th april which was the one i had in mind so who knows you might feel the need to do that one as well!!

I know you will enjoy it so let us know how you got on.

[Minch]

Shame. I will let you know how I get on though.

Think I might have to read up on removing the seat pad from the drivers seat. I'm 6'2" and I can't see myself fitting inside with a crash helmet on too. Might have to dust down my Arai and try it out.

[Kevin]

215 vs 225 and 255 vs 245, There's only a cm difference. Look at your little finger, yes the difference is the width of your little finger. No, it's doesn't make any difference to the car. Rubbing? Well I'll have to concede that there will be the slightest, and I mean slightest touch on the inner wheel well down low. Not enough to work through to the metal though, just a bit flattened off the undercoat stuff.

Front and rear are going up by the same amount, so no difference in balance. If you can find a pic of my car on 16/17 wheels then thats the tyres I have on. Also recall my pic of two different tyres that are both 215 in width, yet they have a visibly different construction and width.




Kevin,

Re: your earlier post on the matter of tyres. The current shoes on the NSX are 215/45/16 and 245/40/17. These are obviously different to the ones you are suggesting. Will they still fit/act the same? Sorry for being a complete dunce but on the subject but surely it has to make some sort of difference, hasn't it?

[Kevin]

Actually he's a pic of them;

[Kevin]

Oh and two different 215 width tyres.

Bridgestone RE070 (Type R) on the left, mmmmm.