Slicks?

[Minch]

Has anyone here tried slicks on there NSX for track days? Just toying with the idea of having a spare set of 16/17" wheels with slicks on to see how much fun they would be.

PS . . . I REALLY need an ABS modulator. I was getting killed by Mo in his NSX due to having to brake way before the corner. This may have been further hindered by the fact that I had next to no rear grip from my crappy tyres.

[DamianW]

Slicks put a lot more stress on the suspension - some track day organisers I know insist tintop cars running slicks have a full roll cage.

[Rob_Fenn]

Just bear in mind that a spare set of OEM wheels are both rare and expensive!

I would judge it on how many trackdays you do really...

[gumball]

I didn't think full slicks were allowed on track days?

[reg]

Slicks put a lot more stress on the suspension - some track day organisers I know insist tintop cars running slicks have a full roll cage.

Agree with that.

Slicks aren't always the magic fix for grip on a road biased car. Am not sure though with the NSX wheel sizes what the best sticky road tyre would be. WOuld like to see the 070 in action but there is no chance of Bridgestone making those available:(

Oh if you do get some and want a tread pattern cut then I have access to a tyre cutter here.

[Minch]

OK guys point taken. Well a set of R888's it is then. Now will 225/45/16's be OK for the front? And will 255/40/17's be OK for the rear?

I was given a price of £500 for all four. What do you think?

[reg]

I wonder what a 215/50/16 would be like, the tyres are probably quite stiff anyway?

[Kevin]

I've got a set of RE070's. They are awesome. I was using them at Spa, with old standard brakes. With normal road tyres it's possible to lock up wheels, with the RE070's not possible.

The super stiff sidewalls also provide more steering feel, and quicker response.

Don't worry about Mo's braking, he is always one of the of the late brakers. It's his driving style.

What you need to do is see (ride with) Mo and myself, we have the complete opposites in terms of driving style, but we lap roughly at the same pace.

If you do want slicks, Yokohama make them in the right sizes for the 16/17 wheel.

You need to ask yourself why are you doing track days? Are you there to learn how to drive? If so, it doesn't matter what parts are on your car. Are you there to be the fastest car there? If so, its easier to get a faster car. There's no prizes in coming first at a track day.

[Papalazarou]

Agree with that.

Slicks aren't always the magic fix for grip on a road biased car. Am not sure though with the NSX wheel sizes what the best sticky road tyre would be. WOuld like to see the 070 in action but there is no chance of Bridgestone making those available:(

Oh if you do get some and want a tread pattern cut then I have access to a tyre cutter here.


The new S2000 CR that everyone likes so much and are looking forward to owning will have the 070's. Apparently. :p

Cheers,

James.

[reg]

The new S2000 CR that everyone likes so much and are looking forward to owning will have the 070's. Apparently. :p

Cheers,

James.

Yes, but then you will have to put up with a car that is fundamentally flawed, but now fundamentally flawed with awesome tyres :D

[Kevin]

I don't think it will in the UK. The RE070 is not Europe legal.

I've been trying everywhere to get some replacements for mine, but can't.

The S2000 CR press release is either from the States or straight from Japan.

[Papalazarou]

Yes, but then you will have to put up with a car that is fundamentally flawed, but now fundamentally flawed with awesome tyres :D




I think you're way too harsh about the S2. I really like them. In fact for the roads that I drive on, it's probably a better bet.



Cheers,

James.

[Minch]

Kevin,

Have you got 17" wheels front and back then? I take ti you can't pass an MOT with the RE070's then?

[Kevin]

I do have 17" front and rear. I haven't tried putting them through the MOT, becuase in the winter, I'd struggle to get the car to the MOT. In the cold those tyres go as hard as ****. However it probably would pass the MOT, let's say I have a very 'friendly' MOT tester.

Summer performance tyres are great in the right conditions.

[Minch]

Fair point. I'm struggling to know whether to go for 225/45/16's or 215/50/16's? It doesn't make much sense to me. I think my only option on the rear is the 255/40/17's. This is assuming I go for Toyo R888's.

[Kevin]

225/45/16 and 255/40/17 are ok.

Use this calculator

http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

it will tell you how big the tyres will be.

Though I think if you are looking to get some more wheels to be able to fit track tyres, the lesson is not to get NSX wheels. Just been looking myself, and the nearest size for R888 is 235/40/17 for the front. If you get some wider front wheels with a lesser offset, say down to 40mm (which is likely), then I guess they would fit without rubbing. Not worked it out thoroughly, just a rough guesstimate. Some 17" in the front will allow for bigger brakes one day too.

[Minch]

Hmmmm . . . this is a real pain in the arse. Does anyone make performance tyres that fit? GRRRRRRRRRR

[Kevin]

Yes.

Yokohama A048R

Dunlop DZ 02G ( in a variety of compounds)

Kumho, Toyo

I don't see why you are having supply issues?

Try having the front 17" wheels, there's nothing.

[Minch]

What I mean is that nobody makes 215/45/16's, only 225/45/16's.

[Kevin]

Sorry, I could of been more helpful there;

http://www.camskill.co.uk/products.php?plid=m12b0s663p0

http://www.camskill.co.uk/products.php?plid=m12b0s668p0

Don't worry about it. Fit 225's. I used to with S03's.

[Minch]

Thanks Kevin,

I have used the A048's on the Elise before. Fantastic when warm! Probably work even better on a heavier car like the NSX i.e. get warm in less time.

Do you think 255's on the rear might be a bit wide? I mean if I decide to go with the R888's?

[sportyking]

As said slicks are not the anwer on a road car, they will destroy wheel bearings and suspension joints surprisingly quickly, and the reason roll cages are insisted upon is because they don't slide like road tyres making rolls much more likely in spins.

I have used R888s on a similar weighted car (S2000) and now have them on a 500Kg car, and think they are an excellent compromise between cost and performance, and wet weather handling is surprisingly good as long as you don't have standing water.

It's rubbish to say the S2000 is fundamentally flawed, it is a fantastic car out of the box, but a number of people that buy them are fundementslly lacking in their understanding of what they have purchased.

[TheSebringOne]

Minch, I note you have NA2 OEMs 16s & 17s wheels, I assume if you go for the slightly wider fronts of 225/45/16 against 215/45/16, rears 255/40/17 against 245/40/17. Does that mean you have to go for non OEMs tyres on the same OEM wheels? Do the wider fronts catch the inner wheel arches on full lock? If you go slightly wider all round, do you get more availability in road tyres, slightly more grip, but maybe slightly less nimble turn in? Was thinking of either putting slightly wider boots in the future or money permitting, going up a size to 17 & 18s? :rolleyes:

[Minch]

Well the front 215's were great around the track. If I could stay with OEM tyre sizes I would but nobody makes them anymore. I don't want to go for none OEM wheels because I think it can make the car look a bit cheap sometimes.

[reg]

It's rubbish to say the S2000 is fundamentally flawed, it is a fantastic car out of the box, but a number of people that buy them are fundementslly lacking in their understanding of what they have purchased.

Of course its not. It is an opinion after trying one out (in my case)

You have no idea how much I wanted the S to be my next car. It had all the on paper credentials but then I drove one. In all I have tried four different cars (original, GT and two 04's) and all of them were nowhere near as good as a DC2 point to point. I am sure with a billiard smooth track they would be fine but on bumpy roads they bump steer and never feel underneath you.

More to the point I just love it when owners of S2's make out that people who dont like dont know how to drive and ridicule their perfectly valid criticisms of the car. How many have been trashed I wonder? Still I am sure the next one will be better.

Believe me I would have one if they delivered the halfway house between Elise and Boxster that they promised.

disclaimer. If you are an s2 owner ignore the above. I dont know how to drive and the s2 is obviously beyond my appreciation.:D

[Rob_Fenn]

To be honest i have driven an S2k and was massively underwhelmed too. I think they look stunning, especially the facelifted ones, but the steering is pretty bad and the car is poorly set up. I just couldn't trust it. In comparison, i drove a mate's Accord Type R afterwards and thought it was much better, and that's FWD with 4 doors!

Sorry for going off topic... ;)

[TheSebringOne]

Never driven a S2K, but the Accord Type R is an amazing saloon car that drives so well, its like the ITR, altmost feels 4WDish, very popular in the past with the plod !!:D

[Senninha]

In comparison, i drove a mate's Accord Type R afterwards and thought it was much better, and that's FWD with 4 doors!

Sorry for going off topic... ;)

Anyone seen the new JDM only Civic 4dr Type R? Suposedly handles like a DC2, has 220bhp, Brembo's and a few other tweaks.

[TheSebringOne]

Minch, this might help about alternatives boots to OEMs as there like Gold dust !?! :D

http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/testvb/showthread.php?t=2473

[Papalazarou]

To be honest i have driven an S2k and was massively underwhelmed too. I think they look stunning, especially the facelifted ones, but the steering is pretty bad and the car is poorly set up. I just couldn't trust it. In comparison, i drove a mate's Accord Type R afterwards and thought it was much better, and that's FWD with 4 doors!

Sorry for going off topic... ;)


I don't think the NSX steerting is any better. At least the S2K's steering is sharp. As for set-up from talking to the guys on S2KI it seems that it is important to set up the geometry to get the most out of the car.

Cheers,


James.

[Kevin]

Thanks Kevin,

I have used the A048's on the Elise before. Fantastic when warm! Probably work even better on a heavier car like the NSX i.e. get warm in less time.

Do you think 255's on the rear might be a bit wide? I mean if I decide to go with the R888's?

Nope. They'd be fine. The standard size now is for 255 on the rear. It's only going to be a 1cm wider, and even that can depend on the tyre itself.

[sportyking]

Reg, thanks for proving my point, as anyone that mentions an Integra or Elise in any form of comparison with an S2000 clearly doesn't understand what the car is.

I'm not sure if your dig at S2000 owners is directed at me smilies or not but for info I moved on from S2000s long ago.

After considerable driving time i began to want more from the suspension on my second S2 so i fitted Aragosta (similar spec to Ohlins) suspension and lowered the car 17mm. The result was a fantastic handling car that would run rings around an NSX (well my 01 coupe anyway), but the car lost its character and appeal and I realised that I was trying to make the car into something it was never designed to be, so I moved on.

Interesting you say the DC2 is quicker "point to point" as I was put in with a group of HR Integras at a Japfest track session 3 years ago and passed all of them. At the time my S2 was stock bar Mugen intake/Exhaust and there are far better drivers than me at most events I attend. Also in the same spec it was less than 10 seconds behind my NSX Ring time. All that from a fundementally flawed car. Cue smilies!!!!

[Senninha]

Its been said many times before and by many in this particular thread, you can spend all the 'performance' money you like on the car but paople rarely spend it on the one thing that will in most cases make the biggest difference ........... the driver.

[reg]

Reg, thanks for proving my point, as anyone that mentions an Integra or Elise in any form of comparison with an S2000 clearly doesn't understand what the car is.

I'm not sure if your dig at S2000 owners is directed at me smilies or not but for info I moved on from S2000s long ago.

Quite what you want out of this conversation I dont know?

And please dont suggest I am making personal attacks on anyone.

Thanks a bunch:rolleyes:

[Papalazarou]

I think I can sum up this particular line of enquiry:

S2000 - great road car / respectable track car / well built
Exige/Elise S2 - not so great road car / fantastic track car / not so well built (amplified by materials used in pursuit of light weight).

Finally, as Paul said; it's largely down to the driver anyway. There are guys in 1970's Minis who'd shame many of us on a given track.


Cheers,

James.

[Minch]

How did my 'slicks' thread get to this . . . . ?

All I wanted to know was what tyres to go for!

[Papalazarou]

We blame you for everything! :P


Cheers,


James.

[modarr]

Thanks Kevin,

I have used the A048's on the Elise before. Fantastic when warm! Probably work even better on a heavier car like the NSX i.e. get warm in less time.

Do you think 255's on the rear might be a bit wide? I mean if I decide to go with the R888's?

Hi Minch,
Nice to have met you. My tyres are 225 40 16 and 255 40 17. Excellent grip as you saw. I went for 225 40 16 as opposed to 225 45 16 front because this gives a smaller tyre and lowers the car by around 5 to 10mm. This is useful on the R susupension which is higher than yours. Turn in is fine but understeer is a problem with the T1 R tyre (crap tyre).
My friend with the GT3 runs R888 's and he always comments on how progtressive the breakaway is. I've felt them go and they are fairly benign. The Yoko's I've had on other cars are a lot less forgiving.
Hope that helps.

[Kevin]

So you don't rate the T1R then? Damn, I was going to get some of those, as its one of the few in 215/40/17 for the front.

The only way I can get track tyres now, is to have a mix front and rear. Or get another set of wheels which allow a 235 in the front.

[modarr]

Kevin the tread pattern on these types of tyre looks aggressive and is probably excellent in the rain, but, what I see on track is a lifting of the sides of the tread from lateral loads and this occurs on the outer edge of each angled thread. The result, as demonstrated by parking on dry dust, is that only the outer parts of the tread pattern forms a contact patch. So to me, this suggests that the tread pattern does not facilitate a maximum contact patch.
Most decent rubber has square blocks of tread not thin strips.

I'm stuck too. Can't find much in the 225 40 16 I want. I may even go for Continental Sport Contacts.

I am considering having some split rims made but am worried about weight. I need some AP brakes although Low Spec (aka Hi-Spec) are very local and I would consider an off the shelf kit if I can get the wheels in 17 and 18 sizes custom made.
Mo

[Kevin]

Mo,

Why 225/40/16? 225/45/16 is the norm. Toyo R888 in that size along with others.

After doing a fair bit of digging around on wheels and tyres I have concluded the following (don't know why I've spent time looking, the CFO won't approve).

If you go for 17x8 front wheels with a 38 offset (ie Volk TE37) then 235/40/17 can be used. Then match those up with 285/30/18 in the rear, with some 10" rear wheels.

In these sizes there are loads of track tyres available. OK, so some are going to say that the acceleration is going to be affected, but who cares? If you don't need to slow down for the corners, you don't need to accelerate again right?;)

The Hispec front system they made for me, will fit a 17 front wheel. I had to have bits remade to get them to fit under the OEM 17" though.

I'm tempted to get some 6 pot calipers from them, with some 4pot rears, and make a new system with AP rotors. Hi-specs rotors lasted 5 events till they needed skimming. So a bit of a pointless exercise really.

[modarr]

I base my front tyre size on the sizes of the original 15" tyres.
If you compare (on tyre size calculator site) the diameter of 225 45 16 against the original 205 50 15, its a massive 23 mm bigger. Therefor the car sits 10mm higher at the front.
I always found the NSX to be most agile and sports car-like on the smaller wheels, but it looks pants. So the 225 40 16 is a similar diameter to original. I can't lower my car on R suspension in the way the Type R is around 10mm lower than standard (different bushes I think) so this is my way of
1. lowering the car in the way the Type R is
2. keepng the agility of the original set-up and delicacy of handling
3. adding more rubber on the road.

I have found bigger diameter, heavier wheels on other cars to kill the 'feel' of the car. It transforms a scalpel into a hammer in the worst case. You may have more grip but its not as sensual.

I'm only thinking about bigger wheels because the brakes are poo. I have installed some ducts and had less fade on track recently but another set of discs bites the dust. I don't use pads, just discs it seems.

I have just ordered some Racing Brake two piece larger rotors but I expect I will warp these in no time and will pay more for replacements than now. hope not, but somehow I think they will get caned by the Ferodo 2500 pads (best ever, they will pull out your fillings and chew up any disc)
So the better barke saga continues...........
Mo