Short Gears in 1996 cars

[indi pearl]

Having read the comments regarding JDM short gears having been used in '96 U.K. cars I checked out "The Goddess" (1996 Targa) today on the way to work.Sure enough red line in second comes up at 70mph so it would seem I have the short gears.I have allways been impressed at the acceleration of this car and now I know why!!
Was this fitting only to '96 cars.

[Mr_Spanners]

It was a MY '95 change to the NSX so cars registered in the UK during 1996 will have the shortened ratio. Bear in mind it changed again a short time later as the 6-speed 3.2 came out!!!

So, there's a relatively small number of us 1996 car owners with the (dare I say it?) 'improved' gearing! :)

~Phil.

[dan the man]

Im gona get the X out tonight so will check as mines a 96 car.

[simonprelude]

Well maximum in my 97 in 3rd is 105 on the speedo, so I found out on my private test track today :)

[dan the man]

Yup did some beanzing tonight in the x, man it felt good. Confidence coming back slowly, and yes limiter bangs in at an indicated 73mph or so in 2nd gear.

[TheSebringOne]

Confidence back pal? Have you recovered from the Ring barrier smooching incident now. :) Think I will go out in her this weekend to see what 2nd & 3rd brings! :D

[Martin]

Short gearing rocks! Me too with my '96 as mentioned in the other thread.

Just out of interest, yesterday I got a friend of mine with a 99 reg NSX to see what it maxed at in 2nd - answer - 79mph!

[mutley]

I see everyone seems to be for the short gearing, so i'll have to throw this in and say I like the long gears, coming off a slip road and to be able to blast it all the way up to 80+ in secnd I like!!! and up to 125 in 3rd ( again on one of those "private " test tracks that Simon talks about).
but hey that's just me I suppose.

Jim

[Silver Surfer]

Modarr bought/reserved from a owner from the US:

1)Brand New Honda JDM 5-spd Short Gearset - 450 GBP

2)Brand New Honda 5-spd NSX-R Final Drive Kit - 550 GBP

I suspect the first is all you need to increase acceleration from 0-100. (450 quid to cut a sec of the time isn't bad).

What's the use of number 2?

SS

[Kevin]

http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Performance/gears.htm

Some of the info is a little old, and the opnions were from a long time ago when modding the NSX was a new thing (well I guess it still is for some of you n00bs:)).

There's some theoretical tables in there, the short gears make .5 sec difference give or take.

[TheSebringOne]

Just been for a blast in the dark!, put in half tank of V-Power (maybe should have gone for quarter for lightness!), only managed 74 in 2nd & 102 in 3rd !! It seems the 96 "shorter geared" 3.0 boys are quicker dare I say! :( I assume the rev limiter is'nt adjustable without changing the ECU, but then you could over-rev it & that would be painful!

Martin, your friend with a 99 3.2 (same as mine) got 79 in 2nd, thats 5 more? & Jim, I can't believe you got 125 in 3rd! I thought shorter gearing gets you there quicker, but lowers the top speed in each gear?

[dan the man]

Its all on prime somewhere about what the gears are for 30 and 3.2 cars. Basically they are very similar in the middle gears but 6th is a lot higher for cruising. So yes james your car will be similar to mine in some gears.

As for being quicker u dont know untill your next to one. Shorter gears are more for helping punch out of corners..great on track. ;)

[Martin]

Martin, your friend with a 99 3.2 (same as mine) got 79 in 2nd, thats 5 more? & Jim, I can't believe you got 125 in 3rd! I thought shorter gearing gets you there quicker, but lowers the top speed in each gear?

Hello , yes my friend has a UK Manual coupe 99-reg. I was in the car at the time, and I got him to test it, to see how it compares to mine (ie 96-reg cars). He got 79 in 2nd. I'm surprised you got 74 in 2nd - are you sure you went up to the rev-limiter in 2nd.....

As for Jim, I don't believe he has a 96-reg, Jim is making a separate point about tall-geared (ie not 1996-reg) NSXs.

Cheers
Martin

[mutley]

Yeah as mine is a 1991 oldie, I have the long gears, and I have to say I quite like it.

Jim

[markc]

Chaps something doesn't quite add up... more empirical testing is required.

Reason is (assuming the gear ratio table on Prime is correct) there are JDM shorts gears and US short gears, what did we get in '96?
Compared to early cars 2nd is indeed shorter in the later 5spd 'boxes but 3rd is unchanged for the US (Rest of World (R.O.W?)) cars.

So brave UK MY'96 pilots, having done the limiter in 2nd test, you need to go back out there (find a private test track) and run to the limiter in 3rd. I know it's a thankless task but it needs to be done for NSXCB, King and Country etc :)

ALL 6spd and JDM 5spd cars should show mid 70's in 2nd and pehaps 105 in 3rd if you're using the limiter rather than 8K.
US cars will show the same mid 70's in 2nd but about 116 (or even a touch more) in 3rd.

Remember the table (at the link below) shows speeds at 8000rpm NOT the limiter which is set at 8200rpm, so if you're reading the speedo while bouncing of the rev limiter it may show a higher speed!

http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Technical/gearratios.htm

..Sebring.. you're misreading the results. Your '99 6spd has almost identical gearing to the JDM cars. Your readings seem spot on.

Martin, your friends 6spd readings are theoretically too high. However, it could be due to the 200rpm over rev (beyond 8K) OR just plain old speedo error.

Mutley, 125 does sound a little high in 3rd even for the early 'box but again this could be the over rev or speedo error.

In 4th and 5th the 6spd cars have substancially shorter gearing that either JDM or US MY'96's and indeed are lower even than the 5spd NSX-R.

You have your mission chaps, NSXCB is relying on you... don't let us down :)

Mark

[dan the man]

ok thanks Mark.. but without going in my car im sure 105 on the limiter in 3rd is right, just remmebering various sections of the ring and what gear speed im at..

Cant test it for a bit as cars gone in to be fixed..new quarter and bumper ahoy!

[NSX 2000]

I can't remember if its US gallons or US miles which are shorter/smaller or longer/larger than UK miles or gallons, if it is miles then this will also have an effect on the speedo reading.

[NoelWatson]

Chaps something doesn't quite add up... more empirical testing is required.

Reason is (assuming the gear ratio table on Prime is correct) there are JDM shorts gears and US short gears, what did we get in '96?
Compared to early cars 2nd is indeed shorter in the later 5spd 'boxes but 3rd is unchanged for the US (Rest of World (R.O.W?)) cars.

So brave UK MY'96 pilots, having done the limiter in 2nd test, you need to go back out there (find a private test track) and run to the limiter in 3rd. I know it's a thankless task but it needs to be done for NSXCB, King and Country etc :)

ALL 6spd and JDM 5spd cars should show mid 70's in 2nd and pehaps 105 in 3rd if you're using the limiter rather than 8K.
US cars will show the same mid 70's in 2nd but about 116 (or even a touch more) in 3rd.

Remember the table (at the link below) shows speeds at 8000rpm NOT the limiter which is set at 8200rpm, so if you're reading the speedo while bouncing of the rev limiter it may show a higher speed!

http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Technical/gearratios.htm

..Sebring.. you're misreading the results. Your '99 6spd has almost identical gearing to the JDM cars. Your readings seem spot on.

Martin, your friends 6spd readings are theoretically too high. However, it could be due to the 200rpm over rev (beyond 8K) OR just plain old speedo error.

Mutley, 125 does sound a little high in 3rd even for the early 'box but again this could be the over rev or speedo error.

In 4th and 5th the 6spd cars have substancially shorter gearing that either JDM or US MY'96's and indeed are lower even than the 5spd NSX-R.

You have your mission chaps, NSXCB is relying on you... don't let us down :)

Mark

Mark,

I thought the limiter was at exactly 8000? The reason I say this is because I went throught the timing beams at Bruntingthorpe on one run hitting the limiter in 5th at 159 (indicated 166), 8200 would have been more like 164.

[simonprelude]

Miles are the same, Gallons have fewer Litres in them, Horsepower - that's anyones guess ;)

[Kevin]

The limiter is at 8300, redline start at 8000.

Just did a quick test while giving Silver Surfer a lift. I get 65mph in 2nd.

Let's all take a moment, sit back and imagine just how quick that is compared to the longer 2nd.

[Martin]

awesome! 65!

Markc my friend with a 99 had not even hit the rev limiter - but also, all comparisons so far are speedo-based anyway.

Every NSX is very special car - we are all lucky to own one regardless of short or long gearing :-)

[mutley]

So you want us all to have a wee test again, Oh that's a shame :D

I'll double check my 2nd and 3rd gears although I usually like to owhere I'm going rather than stare at the dials !! But in teh interest of science, who I am I to hold this info back.

Jim

[Silver Surfer]

Got 81-82mph on second on the way back from Kevins'. Didn't try 3rd. Will attempt on next day out.

SS

[NoelWatson]

The limiter is at 8300, redline start at 8000.

Just did a quick test while giving Silver Surfer a lift. I get 65mph in 2nd.

Let's all take a moment, sit back and imagine just how quick that is compared to the longer 2nd.

In that case the figures on the website or my GPS are out, because I got 72mph in 2nd sitting on the limiter on the GPS (76 on speedo) whereas the site says I should get 74 @8000rpm.

[Kevin]

No the figures are right. I have stated previously, that before my short gearbox was fitted 83mph was possible in second.

I now have a JDM shorter gearset AND a 4.44 final drive. That's lower than the Type-R final drive.

[NoelWatson]

No the figures are right. I have stated previously, that before my short gearbox was fitted 83mph was possible in second.

I now have a JDM shorter gearset AND a 4.44 final drive. That's lower than the Type-R final drive.

Kevin,

Should have made it clear that mine is a 6 speed, but I have measured on the GPS (2nd gear) and used the timing gear at Bruntingthorpe (5th) and the speeds correspond to the limiter in my car, so it would appear my limiter is set at 8000rpm

[mutley]

O I've just been out for a wee run and in 3rd I was bouncing n the lmiter and read 120/122 mph. give or take, I really could have done with a pasenger to read it properly though.

Jim

[Lankstarr]

In that case the figures on the website or my GPS are out, because I got 72mph in 2nd sitting on the limiter on the GPS (76 on speedo) whereas the site says I should get 74 @8000rpm.

I got 72 in second on the GPS (75 on speedo!) and 101 in third (GPS).

Mine is also a 6spd 3.2.

L*

[markc]

Those recent readings in 3rd for both the 6spd (Noel & Luke) and early 5spd 'boxes (Mutley) seem to concur with the table, we just need the late model 5spd (MY'96) boys to chime in with their readings.

Martin, absolutey no argument about all NSX's being special, just trying to understand the exact changes that happened, when they did and if they were consistent for the last of the 5spd cars or just pot luck.

Simon, all Horsepower should be the same but traditionally German (and latterly Japanese) horses have been bigger than Italian ones ;)

Cheers

Mark

[TheSebringOne]

GPS! Why did'nt I think of that! I've got a Snooper, but don't bother using it since only travel my fave country back roads in Cheshire! Luke, think I agree with you for a change pal! :eek: 74 in 2nd & 102 in 3rd are the same as mine speedo reading wise & can't argue with GPS! :)

[AR]

Those recent readings in 3rd for both the 6spd (Noel & Luke) and early 5spd 'boxes (Mutley) seem to concur with the table, we just need the late model 5spd (MY'96) boys to chime in with their readings.

Martin, absolutey no argument about all NSX's being special, just trying to understand the exact changes that happened, when they did and if they were consistent for the last of the 5spd cars or just pot luck.

Simon, all Horsepower should be the same but traditionally German (and latterly Japanese) horses have been bigger than Italian ones ;)

Cheers

Mark

Mark I think they needed the extra acceleration to cope with all the extra weight for the Targa. JK Flame suit on!

[TheSebringOne]

If this is a daft Q, sorry!, but is the rev limiter the same on 3.0 5 speed as oppose to a 3.2 6 speed? 8300 V 8200 rpm? I'm getting rather confuse with this all! :dunno:

[markc]

As far as I know the rev limiter is set at 8300rpm for all model years and all model variants, including NSX-R's.

Cheers

Mark

[NoelWatson]

As far as I know the rev limiter is set at 8300rpm for all model years and all model variants, including NSX-R's.

Cheers

Mark

Mark,

I think a dyno would be able to measure the rev limit?

[markc]

None of the MY'96 owners maxed their charriots in 3rd yet then?

Remember just over 100mph equates to the JDM ratio and just under 120mph the US ratio.

Cheers

Mark

[dan the man]

ill make a mental note.

My car will be ready at the end of the week so be good to stretch her legs.. on some private land

[indi pearl]

Third gear test run today...............102/104 changing up at just over 8,000.

The Goddess definatly has JDM short gears!!!!!!!

[dan the man]

My cars not ready till after the weekend now, waiting for some rear bumper clips from honda :(

[cas]

Hi

Just checked my 95 nsxt 70 mph at 8000rpm. 18 months ago I thought I would change to a 3.2 but when I took it for a test drive I was disappointed because it didn't feel any faster - now I know why!

[Lankstarr]

I got 72 in second on the GPS (75 on speedo!) and 101 in third (GPS).

Mine is also a 6spd 3.2.

L*

I know we've discussed this before bnut I'm reviving as I'm sure my car is getting faster (more than I can justify from the mods!)

It was fairly cold this morning but even so I hit 50 in first (48 on GPS) and didn't touch the limiter. I had to stop and doa retest as I'm sure I only used to hit 40. I seem to remember 40/70/100/130/160 as a pretty easy guide to gears 1/2/3/4/5 in my car but 50 in first is way out. thanksfully I recorded second and third last time so I'll have another go when it's quiet and on a private road to see if my mods have made me faster!

Interested to revive the thread and see if others (Noel!) who have done a few mods are also noticing a decent increase.

I need to run second again to see if I just rembered first incorectly last time! If I didn;t then i only need a few more mods befoer I can do my 0-62 time in one gear... that would get me below 4 seconds withoput a gear change!!

(that last comment was a joke before anyone launches into a discussion as to why I'd need so much more power than the last gain yada yada yada)

Luke

[markc]

I know we've discussed this before bnut I'm reviving as I'm sure my car is getting faster (more than I can justify from the mods!)

It was fairly cold this morning but even so I hit 50 in first (48 on GPS) and didn't touch the limiter. I had to stop and doa retest as I'm sure I only used to hit 40. I seem to remember 40/70/100/130/160 as a pretty easy guide to gears 1/2/3/4/5 in my car but 50 in first is way out. thanksfully I recorded second and third last time so I'll have another go when it's quiet and on a private road to see if my mods have made me faster!

Interested to revive the thread and see if others (Noel!) who have done a few mods are also noticing a decent increase.

I need to run second again to see if I just rembered first incorectly last time! If I didn;t then i only need a few more mods befoer I can do my 0-62 time in one gear... that would get me below 4 seconds withoput a gear change!!

(that last comment was a joke before anyone launches into a discussion as to why I'd need so much more power than the last gain yada yada yada)

Luke

Luke, more power won't make the car faster in each gear. It will accelerate through each gear faster but the top speed in each gear is determined by the engine revs and gear ratio, which won't have changed.

Unless you're managing to over rev, beyond 8,100rpm, or have changed the gearing your speed in gear will be the same. Have you fitted some enormous wheels and tyres recently? ie done the opposite of my NSX-R gearing for free idea :)

Historically Lamborghini and Aston in particular used to use ridiculously long 1st gears to achieve a low headline 0-60mph figure... very superficial marketing over engineering and way below Honda standards ;)

Cheers

Mark

[Lankstarr]

Still on standard wheels so I must have achieved 50 in first gear before. I'll test out 2nd on the way home tonight and report.

Different cars experience slightly different top speeds in each gear; I was going to ask whether the top speed could move slightly but I was sure I only used to get 40 so a 10mph gain isn't slightly.

If it has gone up from 72 in second then I can trust the figures because I had it on GPS the first time.

If someone could test their frst gear in their 3.2 it would help... maybe I've always had it wrong in my head but just thought that after 1st gear at 40mph it was 30 mph per gear as a rough guide... hmmmm

thanks,

Luke

[NoelWatson]

Still on standard wheels so I must have achieved 50 in first gear before. I'll test out 2nd on the way home tonight and report.

Different cars experience slightly different top speeds in each gear; I was going to ask whether the top speed could move slightly but I was sure I only used to get 40 so a 10mph gain isn't slightly.

If it has gone up from 72 in second then I can trust the figures because I had it on GPS the first time.

If someone could test their frst gear in their 3.2 it would help... maybe I've always had it wrong in my head but just thought that after 1st gear at 40mph it was 30 mph per gear as a rough guide... hmmmm

thanks,

Luke


http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Technical/gearratios.htm

47mph in 1st

[modarr]

Got 81-82mph on second on the way back from Kevins'. Didn't try 3rd. Will attempt on next day out.

SS

You in love?
All the way back from Switzerland in 2nd?

Wouldn't buy your car, or his.....

[Silver Surfer]

Funny Mo ...:laugh:

Seen this link? Is this you they are talking about:

http://audisrs.com/about4704.html

SS

[modarr]

Could be me SS,
I do recall being blown away by the Audi Estates down the long straight, catching under braking and leaving for dead around the following bends.
I think one in particular was the friend of an NSX owner here because he mentioned it to me on a later day when I was busy showing the Audi owners how much opposite lock the MX5 can handle.

[NSXGB]

Could be me SS,
I do recall being blown away by the Audi Estates down the long straight, catching under braking and leaving for dead around the following bends.
I think one in particular was the friend of an NSX owner here because he mentioned it to me on a later day when I was busy showing the Audi owners how much opposite lock the MX5 can handle.

Twas me Mo...hurry up and fit your supercharger...

[Lankstarr]

Jsut seen I'm still at 72 in second; guess I just didn;t realise how fast I could go in first!


Still on standard wheels so I must have achieved 50 in first gear before. I'll test out 2nd on the way home tonight and report.

Different cars experience slightly different top speeds in each gear; I was going to ask whether the top speed could move slightly but I was sure I only used to get 40 so a 10mph gain isn't slightly.

If it has gone up from 72 in second then I can trust the figures because I had it on GPS the first time.

If someone could test their frst gear in their 3.2 it would help... maybe I've always had it wrong in my head but just thought that after 1st gear at 40mph it was 30 mph per gear as a rough guide... hmmmm

thanks,

Luke

[NoelWatson]

Funny Mo ...:laugh:

Seen this link? Is this you they are talking about:

http://audisrs.com/about4704.html

SS

"There is a "normal" (I think) NSX going to VMAX. "

That will be me (hopefully with hi-flo cats)

[Senninha]

"There is a "normal" (I think) NSX going to VMAX. "

That will be me (hopefully with hi-flo cats)

Noel,

I take it all the places were booked?

regards, Paul

[AR]

Probably cheaper to take the car over the water for somehigh speed testing if all places are taken.

[NoelWatson]

Noel,

I take it all the places were booked?

regards, Paul

The list is currently full. However, the organiser said that there is usually a number of drop outs. So, people that were on the main list have been asked to pay up. If (and this usually happens), not everyone does, then people on the reserve list are invited. I have asked the organiser to contact me as soon as places become available and I will send him the money straight away - so watch this space!!

[NoelWatson]

Probably cheaper to take the car over the water for somehigh speed testing if all places are taken.

It is a good chance to see all sorts of exotica - for example, 9ff, Carrera GT, Lambos etc.

[Senninha]

.......If someone could test their frst gear in their 3.2 it would help.......thanks,

Luke

Luke,

Had a couple of runs last night and on both occassions pulled 78 in 2nd and 104 in 3rd.

I'm running on OEM 02's, so not sure if this will affect the results ... over to you Mark ....

rergards, Paul

[markdas]

Hmmmmm.....whats the 1/4 mile times like then between the short gear cars.....thinking back I am pretty sure I can get to the line in 3rd at about 112mph.....does this mean the short gear guys will have to use 4th and potentially take longer???:rolleyes:

[Papalazarou]

Hmmmmm.....whats the 1/4 mile times like then between the short gear cars.....thinking back I am pretty sure I can get to the line in 3rd at about 112mph.....does this mean the short gear guys will have to use 4th and potentially take longer???:rolleyes:

Yes, 3rd's only good for 104-5 max. When I had my 96 car I'd have to pull 140 in 4th (8K)to get into the V-tec in fifth.
when Matt and I tried rolling acceleration tests, I'd gain slightly at around 130 when he needed to change into fifth, but then lose slightly 140. The later cars extra torque was pretty evident out of the V-tec but in the power there wasn't a considerable difference.


Cheers,


James.

[markc]

Luke,

Had a couple of runs last night and on both occassions pulled 78 in 2nd and 104 in 3rd.

I'm running on OEM 02's, so not sure if this will affect the results ... over to you Mark ....

rergards, Paul

78mph in 2nd gear sounds a touch high but 104mph sounds spot on.

The 02+ bigger rear tyres (255 in place of 245) make the gearing 1.3% longer in every gear so if an early 6spd pulls 102mph at 8K in 3rd gear, an 02+ pulls 103.325mph.

However, differant tyre brands and designs probably vary enough to make this differance as good as negligable.

Cheers

Mark

[NoelWatson]

My speedo reads slightly high - I can get an indicated 135 in 4th and 166 in 5th

[Senninha]

The 02+ bigger rear tyres (255 in place of 245) make the gearing 1.3% longer in every gear so if an early 6spd pulls 102mph at 8K in 3rd gear, an 02+ pulls 103.325mph.

Cheers

Mark

Hi Mark,

Can I ask what impact you calculate a move to 265/35 18 rears will have please? Fronts remain 02 stock size.

Thanx in advance,

Paul

[markc]

Hi Mark,

Can I ask what impact you calculate a move to 265/35 18 rears will have please? Fronts remain 02 stock size.

Thanx in advance,

Paul

Going to 265x35x18's will raise the gearing by another 1.1% over your 02+ 255x40x17's. It's a 2.4% raise over the earlier 245x40x17 wheel/tyre combination.

I currently have this size on my spare 17/18 combo and it works well enough. Obviously the higher gearing will dull acceleration a bit.

I use this online tool for calculation/comparison but there are lots of others like in on the interweb... http://www.powerdog.com/tiresize.cgi

Cheers

Mark