WANTED: late model NSX [Archive]

m33ufo

25-08-2007, 10:21 PM

How do you mean by late model? If you want a non-pop up facelift model you'll have to work very hard to get one for under £40k.

Your budget is nicely suited for a late pop up model though. Good luck :)

There are so few on the market that it's difficult to get a good idea of what a reasonable price is for a non pop-up headlamp NSX. Although, I noticed an 03 car on Pistonheads (now sold) that was up at 38K and I assume sold for a little less.

I'm not suggesting that Parkers is the best place to check up on car values, but a quick glimpse at Parkers online (as a guide) shows 03/03 cars at around 35K (private good sale) with a price when new of 62K. Sounds about right to me. The residuals are pretty impressive, holding onto more than 50% of it's value after 4 years.....exceptional!

Just my thoughts.

Silver Surfer

25-08-2007, 11:03 PM

There has been 2-3 facelift NSX for sale below 40K over the last 3 months.

James (Papa) bought one,
The Red one on Pistonhead now sold
The Imola Orange Targa advertised not so long ago I reckon is now also sold.

So it is possible but you just have to be patient. Late Pop-ups 3.2l are now available on Autotrader for around 30-32K.

SS

Lankstarr

26-08-2007, 05:09 AM

There are so few on the market that it's difficult to get a good idea of what a reasonable price is for a non pop-up headlamp NSX. Although, I noticed an 03 car on Pistonheads (now sold) that was up at 38K and I assume sold for a little less.

I'm not suggesting that Parkers is the best place to check up on car values, but a quick glimpse at Parkers online (as a guide) shows 03/03 cars at around 35K (private good sale) with a price when new of 62K. Sounds about right to me. The residuals are pretty impressive, holding onto more than 50% of it's value after 4 years.....exceptional!

Just my thoughts.

I'd recommend the late 3.2 pop up owned by a guy on here. It's mint but comes down to your headlight preference really!

If you do buy NSX for around 35k I would say that you would be looking to lose less than 10% if you kept it for a couple of years and put 20k miles on it. That said the way things are going it may even go up in value:eek:

L*

m33ufo

26-08-2007, 07:34 AM

m33ufo

26-08-2007, 07:56 AM

I'd recommend the late 3.2 pop up owned by a guy on here. It's mint but comes down to your headlight preference really!

If you do buy NSX for around 35k I would say that you would be looking to lose less than 10% if you kept it for a couple of years and put 20k miles on it. That said the way things are going it may even go up in value:eek:

L*

I did notice the 2001 car in the for sale section. Great looking car and I do like the earlier front end - probably more so than the later cars.

However, it's getting on for 6 years old and if I can get a later car (2 - 3 years newer) and still fall inside my budget then I think it's probably money well spent.

It sounds like the NSX is a similar proposition to the M3 CSL. After hitting a low, CSL's have been getting fractionally more expensive over the last year and a half or so - great cars, and I am a little worried that the NSX may feel a little tame in comparision. No doubt that they (the NSX) look fantastic and their relative rarity makes them stand out in a crowd.

TheQuietOne

26-08-2007, 08:11 AM

m33ufo

26-08-2007, 08:28 AM

I think you may well find the NSX a bit of a shock compared to the CSL. I haven't driven a CSL but have been a passenger a few times and they certainly fell quick, but I'm not sure in reality there is much in it. It depends on how you like to drive, the CSL appears to do a bit more for you, whereas the NSX will reward accurate driving with one of the most enjoyable chassis I have known along with indisputably a far nicer sound track!

With the NSX you'll have exclusivity and a serious amount of positive attention wherever you go, whether from little kids or their Dad's!

Damian's car (red/red 2001 3.2) I think might be in the process of being sold, but if it isn't I suggest you take a look - I would say it is probably the best example of a 3.2 with the pop-ups in the country, if not it is certainly the best for sale at the moment. I've seen the car on a few occasions and I would have it in a heartbeat if mine wasn't a 2000, 3.2!!

Good luck with the hunt - if it hasn't sold Ivan at Chiswick Honda has the Imola Targa now by the way, if you're close to their go and have a spin, he usually has a few X's in stock and is a great place to start!

Oh also Lankstarr might be worth a PM on here if he doesn't pick up on this thread, his brother probably stocks ans sells more CSL's than any other trader in the UK! :D

A nicer soundtrack..?? Hmmmm, to my ears the atleast it would have to be pretty sensational to better the CSL. Plant your right foot and the induction roar is something you have to hear to believe. The sound of a CSL is certainly one of the joys of ownership - I'm looking forward to being surprised by the NSX :)

I think in terms of a practical 4 seater with a big boot that also serves as a stunning trackday car when the need arrises then the CSL is in a class of it's own. But I don't need the practical element.

I did look at the Chiswick Honda site and the NSX wasn't listed. Perhaps I'll give them a call this morning.

TheQuietOne

26-08-2007, 10:26 AM

OK regarding the sound - drive a well run-in 3.2 NSX and let me know....:D

m33ufo

26-08-2007, 11:42 AM

OK regarding the sound - drive a well run-in 3.2 NSX and let me know....:D

Will do :)

m33ufo

27-08-2007, 11:41 AM

Probably not the best place to raise this...but why, oh why are the wing mirrors on the NSX so large?!! They spoil the lines of the car (IMHO).

Is it possible to get hold of smaller alternatives??

:)

Silver Surfer

27-08-2007, 04:06 PM

Yes you can, Amo has them on his wide body X.

SS

m33ufo

27-08-2007, 04:45 PM

Maybe something a little more OEM looking but they are definitely smaller!

Still looking for an NSX. The pop-up model I was directed to has been sold. Awaiting a call back on the Imola Orange which is apparently still available...just needs a little negotiation! :)

m33ufo

01-09-2007, 11:44 AM

Still looking.....

TheSebringOne

01-09-2007, 05:19 PM

Negotiations did'nt quite go in your direction? Sorry thats a shame. If its an Imola Orange Targa manual, I saw this at JapaneseFest and met the previous owner and its a gorgeous car! Good luck in your search. :) Matter of interest how much is it being priced at in the dealer?

m33ufo

01-09-2007, 05:26 PM

I spoke to Ivan and without discussing exact figures he seemed to think we could arrive at a mutually acceptable deal. Really of course I need to go and see the car first and just haven't had the opportunity this week.

BUT, after reading a little more on the NSX I think that I would probably prefer to go for the coupe over the targe. Just a little more rigid, lighter and slightly better suited to the track.

m33ufo

01-09-2007, 05:28 PM

I think it's a shade off 40K sticker price.

m33ufo

04-09-2007, 06:52 AM

By way of an update, I've just bought another CSL.

However, I am still very much interested in the NSX. If someone on the forum is considering selling their facelift NSX then please let me know. If it's the right car then I'm sure I can move the CSL pretty smartly (at the right price!).

dan the man

04-09-2007, 07:18 AM

My friend has just sold his E30 M3 and is after a CSL so if u decide to sell PM me the details. wonderfull cars.

He is hoping prices will drop when the new E92 M3 arrives fully, what do u think?

m33ufo

04-09-2007, 07:47 AM

My friend has just sold his E30 M3 and is after a CSL so if u decide to sell PM me the details. wonderfull cars.

He is hoping prices will drop when the new E92 M3 arrives fully, what do u think?

I'm 100% enthusiastic about CSL's. Easily the best compromise car I have ever owned. It'll lap the Nurburing as quickly as a GT3 and then happily transport you and your 3 mates back to the Uk with all their luggage.

My problem is that I do enjoy driving different cars - if I had the cash to enable me to keep 20 different cars in my garage then I would!! I've wanted an NSX for years but just never got round to taking the plunge.

Will prices drop off when the new M3 arrives??? Perhaps the odd car that turns up as a trade-in at your local BMW franchise will be available at a good price. However, most of these cars are owned by enthusiast's who are fully aware of their value. CSL's are currently on a high and have gone up in value over the last year or so. Even now they are still edging upwards.

Refer your mate to www.BM3W.co.uk (http://www.BM3W.co.uk) there are currently around 120 CSL owners registered there and it's a great source of info.

Rob_Fenn

04-09-2007, 12:51 PM

The M3 CSL is a very capable car, and like you i get itchy feet despite being happy with a current car. Some kind of disease...

The only thing wrong is that it is 'only' a BMW saloon. There is also the slightly dodgy image that not even the CSL can shake in my eyes...

Hope you get to scratch the NSX itch at some point. Make sure you say hi if you see our NSX at a trackday or at the Ring :D

m33ufo

04-09-2007, 01:24 PM

The only thing wrong is that it is 'only' a BMW saloon. There is also the slightly dodgy image that not even the CSL can shake in my eyes...

I can see where your coming from and kind of agree with you to an extent. As far as the basic shape of the CSL is concerned, it's just a 3 series coupe, all be it a very exclusive track oriented variant.

Depends what you want, if I was more image concious I would buy another 911 and I'm sure you would probably sell the Honda, don't they make the Jazz? ;)

04-09-2007, 03:00 PM

Whereabouts in South Wales are you? I have a silver early NSX if you see me around flash. Was your CSL dark grey? Seen one around Penarth in the past.

Cheers,

AR

simonprelude

04-09-2007, 03:43 PM

They do, but it's not the same basic shape as the NSX ;)

I can see where your coming from and kind of agree with you to an extent. As far as the basic shape of the CSL is concerned, it's just a 3 series coupe, all be it a very exclusive track oriented variant.

Depends what you want, if I was more image concious I would buy another 911 and I'm sure you would probably sell the Honda, don't they make the Jazz? ;)

m33ufo

04-09-2007, 03:47 PM

Whereabouts in South Wales are you? I have a silver early NSX if you see me around flash. Was your CSL dark grey? Seen one around Penarth in the past.

Cheers,

AR

I did have a silver grey CSL on an 04 plate, I work just off Penarth Road in Cardiff so you may well have seen me. New one is black and again on an 04.

By coincidence I heard AMO today, about 5 minutes before I saw him....that is one loud car :D

m33ufo

04-09-2007, 03:49 PM

They do, but it's not the same basic shape as the NSX ;)

Probably best I say nothing...this is a Honda site and I'll undoubtedly get a slating :cool:

Silver Surfer

05-09-2007, 12:38 AM

Probably best I say nothing...this is a Honda site and I'll undoubtedly get a slating :cool:

No, we only sub-specialise in NSXs not any old Hondas'

SS

NSXGB

05-09-2007, 02:14 AM

Depends what you want, if I was more image concious I would buy another 911 and I'm sure you would probably sell the Honda, don't they make the Jazz? ;)

....They make lawnmowers too, but I don't see what that has to do with anything? :)

m33ufo

05-09-2007, 06:46 AM

....They make lawnmowers too, but I don't see what that has to do with anything? :)

It's has to do with image and brand snobbery.

I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't already know, but a lot of people wouldn't buy an NSX simply because it's a Honda.

Back to the NSX for a second, it's substantially remained unaltered since it first hit the streets back in 1990. The fact that it's still got an enthusiastic and loyal fan base speaks a lot for the original design I'm sure, but I can't think of any other manufacturer that has been so lazy - even Porsche regularly updates it's 911! I guess it's all down to money - there isn't a market for a Honda Supercar (not sure if 280bhp is enough for a Supercar?), and that's probably down to brand snobbery.

Went off track there a little, I was originally responding to the comment that the CSL is just a 3 Series. My point was, the NSX is just a Honda - and an underdeveloped, dated and aging one at that.

As I'm sure your aware, if I didn't have a soft spot for and a desire to own an NSX then I wouldn't be here in the first place. But to knock a CSL for being a BMW when you own a Honda is a little rich (all in my opinion of course).

;)

05-09-2007, 07:39 AM

I'll leave this one to James!

bazza

05-09-2007, 08:20 AM

It's has to do with image and brand snobbery.

I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't already know, but a lot of people wouldn't buy an NSX simply because it's a Honda.

Maybe.. but educated and people in the know buy the NSX because its a truly remarkable machine. I wouldn't buy a 355 because the gearchange is toss and i couldn't help thinking its going to break if i start driving it in anger. 2 NSX's and 15k miles later, not one repair bill. Just oil and normal consumables.

I truly think its one of the motoring worlds best kept secrets. :)

If I cared about the badge or what my neighbours thought I would buy a 355 or a Boxter! Well its a Porsche right? ;)

Back to the NSX for a second, it's substantially remained unaltered since it first hit the streets back in 1990. The fact that it's still got an enthusiastic and loyal fan base speaks a lot for the original design I'm sure, but I can't think of any other manufacturer that has been so lazy - even Porsche regularly updates it's 911! I guess it's all down to money - there isn't a market for a Honda Supercar (not sure if 280bhp is enough for a Supercar?), and that's probably down to brand snobbery.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The NSX has gone through minor changes since 1990 and to this day still holds its own against supercars. It was leagues ahead of thc competition in the 90's and to me it doesn't drive dated at all.

First aluminium car, first supercar to win reliability awards, Senna's involvement, high residuals and a dedicated fan base help keep the NSX spirit alive.

One of the reasons the M3, M5, 911 etc depreciates so hard is they bring a new one out every 18-24 months!!! Why?? Did they not do the job right the last time? Or is just to sell to more uneducated muppets who want to keep ahead of the Jones'? Marketing sell out over passion and pride. Grrr...

The M3 has just got fatter and fatter over the years (A bit like the Civic Type R for that matter) and they are now just selling it on having more power than the last.. Nice one. The CSL failed to sell here because the M3 customer base isn't interested in carbonfibre and driving pleasure. They want fat seats and sat nav.

BMW have sold out the M3 heritage by branding the M3 as a luxury saloon with all the latest toys. Not the drivers car it used to be.

Went off track there a little, I was originally responding to the comment that the CSL is just a 3 Series. My point was, the NSX is just a Honda - and an underdeveloped, dated and aging one at that.

Would you say a 1966 Ford GT40 is aging? Or a Ferrari F40? Or even an old MGB? All great cars.

As I'm sure your aware, if I didn't have a soft spot for and a desire to own an NSX then I wouldn't be here in the first place. But to knock a CSL for being a BMW when you own a Honda is a little rich (all in my opinion of course).

;)

I agree. The CSL is a superb machine, soundtrack to die for, sharp steering and remarkable looks. :)

NSX 2000

05-09-2007, 08:53 AM

It's has to do with image and brand snobbery.

I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't already know, but a lot of people wouldn't buy an NSX simply because it's a Honda.

Back to the NSX for a second, it's substantially remained unaltered since it first hit the streets back in 1990. The fact that it's still got an enthusiastic and loyal fan base speaks a lot for the original design I'm sure, but I can't think of any other manufacturer that has been so lazy - even Porsche regularly updates it's 911! I guess it's all down to money - there isn't a market for a Honda Supercar (not sure if 280bhp is enough for a Supercar?), and that's probably down to brand snobbery.

Went off track there a little, I was originally responding to the comment that the CSL is just a 3 Series. My point was, the NSX is just a Honda - and an underdeveloped, dated and aging one at that.

As I'm sure your aware, if I didn't have a soft spot for and a desire to own an NSX then I wouldn't be here in the first place. But to knock a CSL for being a BMW when you own a Honda is a little rich (all in my opinion of course).

;)

I'm afraid I've got to disagree with you about knocking the CSL it is after all just another 3 series which is a car that now out sales the Ford Mondeo! The NSX was designed as a stand alone vehicle. Honda took a look at what cars the competition were making and decided it could do better, and it did. But that was back in 1989/1990. BMW decided it wanted to make a medium 4 door salon and then have various different variants based around that chassis. You can compare the CSL with the Civic Type R. A car that is massed produced then given to the special projects team to make a hard-core road/track orientated machine. In the case of BMW they gave it to the "M" division to make the M3 then as this was not selling as well as they hoped came up with the idea of a stripped out M3 hence the CSL then sell it for more money. This is really just marketing with Lotus IMO being the manufacture that came up with this idea first.
Now if this was about the BMW M1 then that would be a fair comparison!
Paul.

bazza

05-09-2007, 09:03 AM

I'm afraid I've got to disagree with you about knocking the CSL it is after all just another 3 series which is a car that now out sales the Ford Mondeo! The NSX was designed as a stand alone vehicle. Honda took a look at what cars the competition were making and decided it could do better, and it did. But that was back in 1989/1990. BMW decided it wanted to make a medium 4 door salon and then have various different variants based around that chassis. You can compare the CSL with the Civic Type R. A car that is massed produced then given to the special projects team to make a hard-core road/track orientated machine. In the case of BMW they gave it to the "M" division to make the M3 then as this was not selling as well as they hoped came up with the idea of a stripped out M3 hence the CSL then sell it for more money. This is really just marketing with Lotus IMO being the manufacture that came up with this idea first.
Now if this was about the BMW Z1 then that would be a fair comparison!
Paul.

Regardless of the above Paul the CSL is still an awesome machine.
I hear what you are saying that its still based on a 3 series but its no different from the Mitsubishi Evo being based on the Carisma chassis.

BMW are one of the worst for bringing out a model with 20 variations of engine size, transmission etc but the CSL isn't just a big engine in a 318i chassis ;)

m33ufo

05-09-2007, 09:39 AM

I'm afraid I've got to disagree with you about knocking the CSL it is after all just another 3 series which is a car that now out sales the Ford Mondeo! The NSX was designed as a stand alone vehicle. Honda took a look at what cars the competition were making and decided it could do better, and it did. But that was back in 1989/1990. BMW decided it wanted to make a medium 4 door salon and then have various different variants based around that chassis. You can compare the CSL with the Civic Type R. A car that is massed produced then given to the special projects team to make a hard-core road/track orientated machine. In the case of BMW they gave it to the "M" division to make the M3 then as this was not selling as well as they hoped came up with the idea of a stripped out M3 hence the CSL then sell it for more money. This is really just marketing with Lotus IMO being the manufacture that came up with this idea first.
Now if this was about the BMW M1 then that would be a fair comparison!
Paul.

The M3 has always been a big seller for BMW, it certainly didn't need a limited run of CSL's to boulster sales. At the time it was in production (2003), the CSL was a GT3 competitor for £15K less cash.

I'm assuming you may want to edit your text.....CSL similar to a Civic TypeR???? It doesn't warrant a response. I can see no similar terms of reference. Your obviously a very funny guy :laugh:

m33ufo

05-09-2007, 09:57 AM

Would you say a 1966 Ford GT40 is aging? Or a Ferrari F40? Or even an old MGB? All great cars.

Not quite what I was trying to get across...the NSX remained in production for 15 years (???) with limited development. That's a great shame. F40 for example was a very short production run and was subsequently superceded by F50 and Enzo....and yes by today's standards, no matter how good, I would say the F40 is an aging design - but yes, a great car.

It's still a great car but compared to modern alternatives looks and feels dated - have you looked down at your dash recently or glanced back at the small wheels?

We have had almost 4 generations of Ferrari during the lifespan of the NSX. The reason it wasn't developed to keep in touch with it's competition (for example F348...F355...F360...F430) was because there was no money in it for Honda. They learned that no matted how good the car was, the small number of people who would buy one in preference to the equivalent Ferrari or Porsche was too small to warrant the cost.

NSX 2000

05-09-2007, 10:16 AM

The M3 has always been a big seller for BMW, it certainly didn't need a limited run of CSL's to boulster sales. At the time it was in production (2003), the CSL was a GT3 competitor for £15K less cash.

I'm assuming you may want to edit your text.....CSL similar to a Civic TypeR???? It doesn't warrant a response. I can see no similar terms of reference. Your obviously a very funny guy :laugh:

No I don't need to edit my response, if you carry on reading my response I state why I'm comparing the CSL to the Civic Type R, but I could of used Jaguar S type R or Audi RS4 or Renault Clio Sport or Mini (BMW) Copper works GP, and I could mention every mass production car maker. They have taken a mass produced car and made a high speed/road variant.

The point is your not comparing apples with apples, taking away the fact one is a four seater, front engine, straight six, rear wheel drive, and the other a two seater, mid engine, V6, rear wheel drive car, the only thing they really have in common is they are able transport people from A to B! Plus the CSL was developed some 15 years later with all the benefit of today’s modern technology! In 1989 did we all have home computers NO, so I know what, lets compare my Casio calculator (circa 1988) with the latest Apple Mac!

This also happens to bring me on to a subject we've touched on before re car mags and their comparisons, with modern cars compared to the NSX.

But all of the above is subjective and down to personal opinions, so when I wanted a brand new fast car to transport 4 adults at the end of last year did I buy a German uber machine; no I bought from a Japanese manufacture that are consistently at the top of JD Power surveys, and who’s dealers aren’t stuck up their own arses!

bazza

05-09-2007, 10:16 AM

Not quite what I was trying to get across...the NSX remained in production for 15 years (???) with limited development. That's a great shame. F40 for example was a very short production run and was subsequently superceded by F50 and Enzo....and yes by today's standards, no matter how good, I would say the F40 is an aging design - but yes, a great car.

It's still a great car but compared to modern alternatives looks and feels dated - have you looked down at your dash recently or glanced back at the small wheels?

We have had almost 4 generations of Ferrari during the lifespan of the NSX. The reason it wasn't developed to keep in touch with it's competition (for example F348...F355...F360...F430) was because there was no money in it for Honda. They learned that no matted how good the car was, the small number of people who would buy one in preference to the equivalent Ferrari or Porsche was too small to warrant the cost.

I see what you are saying now.
My Alcantera dash is actually class thanks ;)

Honda made a loss on the NSX sales - tooling, production, overheads but it made the world stand up and take notice. The factory then went on to make the S2000 which, again, is a world class roadster but put it next to a wanky 1.8 Z3 the average non-petrolhead would choose the BMW. Why? Clever marketing that targets the masses.

Brand/Badge snobbery is even more apparant today which gives the new NSX a disadvantage from the start :(

Rob_Fenn

05-09-2007, 10:17 AM

I don't think we can really bash BMW as Honda themselves seemingly want to turn the NSX into a luxo barge. It's no different from saying BMW has 'sold out' the M3 name, is it?

Stock vs Stock the CSL is the better car on paper, no doubt. Comparing new list prices it is also better VFM. For all it's achievements, the NSX has been caught up and surpassed. Thing is, you have to deal with that everyone presumes you're a wanker in the BMW and that there are people in 318Cis with near identical m-tec bodykits. Even though the CSL is actually quite rare, is it possible to think you have something individual? I'd find it difficult.

Personally i don't feel the need to justify owning an NSX, i just like it. At the same time, i don't question other people's purschases. If they like it, that's cool with me... and i prefer it... as it makes me even more individual ;)

simonprelude

05-09-2007, 10:28 AM

I can see your points, however nice the M3 CSL is, it's still just a 3 series BMW.

The NSX isn't just a power enhanced superior handling aerodynamic rep mobile, which I am sure quite a few people will see the M3 and M3 CSL as.

The NSX was only ever a Halo project to show the car world what Honda could do and stir up the (then) supercar market and manufacturers.

I too think it a shame that the few cosmetic and slight displacement / transmission changes could have been a lot more to keep the car at the top.
However as Richard Hammond once said, move on retire the NSX and make something new.

I do also think that any M3 CSL comparisons need to be made against the NSX-R (NA2) and unfortunately the M3 seems to get it's arse handed to it where the NSX is still performing in the handling market. Then again for anyone to think a 4 seater saloon can fully compete with a track orientated lightweight balanced (sportscar / supercar) machine then that step I think is still out of reach.

m33ufo

05-09-2007, 11:56 AM

I see what you are saying now.
My Alcantera dash is actually class thanks ;)

mmmmmm....Alcantara...owning a CSL you just know I'm going to like it.

Although, and I know I'm going to regret this, I think this CSL owner has overdone it on the dash (nice stitching!).

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/236121.htm

I'll stick with the standard Alcantara seats, steering wheel and handbrake.

m33ufo

05-09-2007, 12:11 PM

No I don't need to edit my response, if you carry on reading my response I state why I'm comparing the CSL to the Civic Type R, but I could of used Jaguar S type R or Audi RS4 or Renault Clio Sport or Mini (BMW) Copper works GP, and I could mention every mass production car maker. They have taken a mass produced car and made a high speed/road variant.

The point is your not comparing apples with apples, taking away the fact one is a four seater, front engine, straight six, rear wheel drive, and the other a two seater, mid engine, V6, rear wheel drive car, the only thing they really have in common is they are able transport people from A to B! Plus the CSL was developed some 15 years later with all the benefit of today’s modern technology! In 1989 did we all have home computers NO, so I know what, lets compare my Casio calculator (circa 1988) with the latest Apple Mac!

This also happens to bring me on to a subject we've touched on before re car mags and their comparisons, with modern cars compared to the NSX.

But all of the above is subjective and down to personal opinions, so when I wanted a brand new fast car to transport 4 adults at the end of last year did I buy a German uber machine; no I bought from a Japanese manufacture that are consistently at the top of JD Power surveys, and who’s dealers aren’t stuck up their own arses!

:laugh: Funny guy

NSX 2000

05-09-2007, 12:57 PM

:laugh: Funny guy

I'm glad to see we are some sort of amusement to you. This is a pleasant and mature forum and as you can see by all the replies we have not just said F**K OFF you sad and pathetic M3 CSL owner but have given polite well-argued cases for and against the NSX when compared to an M3 CSL. I'm almost certain that if the boot was on the other foot and I was on the M3 CSL club forum then that is the sort of reply I would get.

05-09-2007, 01:17 PM

Fact is that the nsx is special and unique.

TheQuietOne

05-09-2007, 01:38 PM

I would just like to say that this kind of thread belongs on Pistonheads chaps, we never get into petty mud slinging contests and I think we should keep it that way.

This kind of thread ,for me, is the absolute lowest you can stoop on a web based car forum, IMHO of course.

05-09-2007, 01:45 PM

Yeah one of those my Intraw3b penis is bigger than yours type thread!

TheQuietOne

05-09-2007, 01:49 PM

Yeah one of those my Intraw3b penis is bigger than yours type thread!

Couldn't agree more mate...

m33ufo

05-09-2007, 02:37 PM

I'm glad to see we are some sort of amusement to you. This is a pleasant and mature forum and as you can see by all the replies we have not just said F**K OFF you sad and pathetic M3 CSL owner but have given polite well-argued cases for and against the NSX when compared to an M3 CSL. I'm almost certain that if the boot was on the other foot and I was on the M3 CSL club forum then that is the sort of reply I would get.

Funny and aggressive all wrapped up into one...your the only one I find ammusing, your fellow club members all seem reasonable, well informed individuals. I guess there's always one :rolleyes:

Your a funny guy :laugh:

NSX 2000

05-09-2007, 04:23 PM

Funny and aggressive all wrapped up into one...your the only one I find ammusing, your fellow club members all seem reasonable, well informed individuals. I guess there's always one :rolleyes:

Your a funny guy :laugh:

The wonderful thing about this and any other forum is the ability to hide behind some user name and pretend to be something your not, sad I know but apparently some people get a kick out it.

Personally I now have an extremely low opinion of you and think you’re very pathetic. Can't say I find you very funny just sad.

Papalazarou

05-09-2007, 04:39 PM

m33ufo

05-09-2007, 05:03 PM

Unfortunately, forums are a little artificial and rarely purvey the exact sentiment of the messages we are trying to get accross.
They also allow people to take liberties they would never take socially.

The other day, some of us met up with some S2000 owners and a Caymen owner (ex S2K member), went for a drive and had lunch. We discussed our cars and talked about the Caymen a bit, it was fun and civilized.

If Mr CSL had met up with us at this meet, we would all have got on I'm sure, despite our point of view.

Cheers,

James.

Can I just say, the only issue I have had with anyone on this forum appears to be with NSX2000.

I am more than happy to debate any point, which I think I have done within this thread, although the impression I get from the individual mentioned above is that his opinion is fixed and he seems overly keen to be insulting and aggressive.

I have no axe to grind as far as the NSX is concerned, as I'm sure you realise from this thread, I am quite interested in purchasing one (the lardy version!). I don't feel I have insulted the NSX in any way, just given an opinion where I feel relevant.

05-09-2007, 05:33 PM

Just a heads up, Freewheler has mint red one locally for £ 43K.

Cheers,

AR

m33ufo

05-09-2007, 05:44 PM

Just a heads up, Freewheler has mint red one locally for £ 43K.

Cheers,

AR

I was drooling over his 03 996TT at a similar price....just a few too many miles though.

I'll have a look at his website.

Ta

Ferris Bueller

05-09-2007, 06:15 PM

Out of interest, how many fixed light cars are there? Somewhere around 40 I believe. Could you shed any light please Simon? Is the number on the kickplate significant?

Shame about the mud slinging chaps as I think it's a very relevant debate.

There are some distinct parallels between the CSL and NSX. Both, arguably, overpriced new (by that I mean latterly, even with the £10k price cut). Both now fast assuming classic status due to supply vs demand and both coveted by enthusiasts. Both also sound phenomenal.

I'd tip CSL values to take another step down when the E92 CSL car turns up on the next 18 months or so. For what it's worth, having driven the new E92 M3 I'd say that the E46 will be the peak of the M3; specifically the CS and CSL cars. The E92 CSL may change that (420+ bhp, dual clutch gearbox - perhaps) but it will have to be a serious rework of the standard car.

Would I swap the NSX for a CSL? Only if I couldn't afford the NSX ;) (and then I'd seriously consider buying a CS because it has the majority of the right bits, but with a manual 'box). Depreciation and running costs would possibly make the NSX cheaper in the long run..........

As for this underdeveloped and old stuff, I drove a Cayman S recently, back to back down the same piece of road and the NSX makes it feel distinctly average. I've said it before, cheaper production methods, a new body shell and a reworked interior and the NSX, with no further development (ignoring legislative requirements) would be a very competitive car now.

05-09-2007, 06:19 PM

I think is like 60 or so odd cars.

m33ufo

05-09-2007, 06:43 PM

I'd tip CSL values to take another step down when the E92 CSL car turns up on the next 18 months or so. For what it's worth, having driven the new E92 M3 I'd say that the E46 will be the peak of the M3; specifically the CS and CSL cars. The E92 CSL may change that (420+ bhp, dual clutch gearbox - perhaps) but it will have to be a serious rework of the standard car.

From what I've read (not driven the new M3), I would say the CSL is still pick of the bunch.

As for a drop in price I'm not so sure, then again if I did know for certain I would be making a lot more money as a car dealer!! What I am very aware of is that since selling my old CSL just over 5 weeks ago, priced have probably gone up by around 2k !! That's the feeling I'm getting in the market place. If you have an idea of what has been on Pistonheads over the last couple of months then there is a definite upward trend.

I initially thought the E92 M3 would affect CSL prices in a detrimental way, on the contrary, I know think the fact it isn't regarded as a superior car will have the reverse effect. When the E92 M3 CSL does materialise I hope it's an even better car but at what price...the E46 CSL was some 20K more than the standard M3, does that mean the E92 CSL will be 75K for quite a simply specced car? If so, the E46 will look an even bigger bargain.

05-09-2007, 06:53 PM

m3 csl on top gear uktvg2 now.

Ferris Bueller

05-09-2007, 06:58 PM

From what I've read (not driven the new M3), I would say the CSL is still pick of the bunch.

As for a drop in price I'm not so sure, then again if I did know for certain I would be making a lot more money as a car dealer!! What I am very aware of is that since selling my old CSL just over 5 weeks ago, priced have probably gone up by around 2k !! That's the feeling I'm getting in the market place. If you have an idea of what has been on Pistonheads over the last couple of months then there is a definite upward trend.

I initially thought the E92 M3 would affect CSL prices in a detrimental way, on the contrary, I know think the fact it isn't regarded as a superior car will have the reverse effect. When the E92 M3 CSL does materialise I hope it's an even better car but at what price...the E46 CSL was some 20K more than the standard M3, does that mean the E92 CSL will be 75K for quite a simply specced car? If so, the E46 will look an even bigger bargain.

I keep an eye on CSL values - I have a number in my head at which I'd buy if circumstance arose. They've yet to drop to that value.... 32-34k has been the asking price for about 6 months now. There are some higher priced cars out there but I think those are exceptions rather than norms. Dealers are pricing them at £35k. I'm not sure what they're actually changing hands for. I'll have a better idea in the next few weeks as my friend is looking for one.

m33ufo

05-09-2007, 07:00 PM

Would I swap the NSX for a CSL? Only if I couldn't afford the NSX ;) (and then I'd seriously consider buying a CS because it has the majority of the right bits, but with a manual 'box). Depreciation and running costs would possibly make the NSX cheaper in the long run..........

No matter what the likes of EVO say, the CS (as nice as it is) is more similar to the M3 than the CSL. Plus, the SMG on the CSL is vastly improved over that on the M3. You really need to try it to appreciate it, you wouldn't believe the speed of the change.

I had a few reservations on the SMG initially and smoothness comes with practice, but when your pressing on it's just fantastic. You really need to try one.

If you have 10 minutes, take a look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5JFlc5VTT0

It does wet the appetite! Don't believe the BS about a cardboard boot lol!

m33ufo

05-09-2007, 07:13 PM

I keep an eye on CSL values - I have a number in my head at which I'd buy if circumstance arose. They've yet to drop to that value.... 32-34k has been the asking price for about 6 months now. There are some higher priced cars out there but I think those are exceptions rather than norms. Dealers are pricing them at £35k. I'm not sure what they're actually changing hands for. I'll have a better idea in the next few weeks as my friend is looking for one.

I think you will find that prices have recently started to rise, even ignoring the slightly OTT 31,000 mile example at 41K pounds! What is apparent is that only good cars sell, you will find the odd one hanging around (for whatever reason). A 12,000 mile example recently sold for almost 38K via a dealer on Pistonheads. The owner of the black 5,000 mile car which has now been sold refused to go lower than 35K when I spoke to him recently - and that's for a car without aircon - no matter what people say in ads, no aircon means that cars are worth around 2-3K less than a car with it.

Ferris Bueller

05-09-2007, 07:32 PM

No matter what the likes of EVO say, the CS (as nice as it is) is more similar to the M3 than the CSL. Plus, the SMG on the CSL is vastly improved over that on the M3. You really need to try it to appreciate it, you wouldn't believe the speed of the change.

I had a few reservations on the SMG initially and smoothness comes with practice, but when your pressing on it's just fantastic. You really need to try one.

If you have 10 minutes, take a look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5JFlc5VTT0

It does wet the appetite! Don't believe the BS about a cardboard boot lol!

I've driven E46 M3, M3CS and M3 CSL. Also, E92 M3, M5 and M6 FWIW....... I'm not spouting Evo-dom at you.

I still prefer a manual 'box. Even one as notchy as the M3's ;)

NSX 2000

05-09-2007, 08:40 PM

Unfortunately, forums are a little artificial and rarely purvey the exact sentiment of the messages we are trying to get accross.
They also allow people to take liberties they would never take socially.

The other day, some of us met up with some S2000 owners and a Caymen owner (ex S2K member), went for a drive and had lunch. We discussed our cars and talked about the Caymen a bit, it was fun and civilized.

If Mr CSL had met up with us at this meet, we would all have got on I'm sure, despite our point of view.

Cheers,

James.

James I could not agree more. Mark (m33ufo) I have re read the whole thread and feel that in a few places you have contradicted yourself, I did not have the intention of entering into a slagging match, but it is now obvious that is want has happened. As we all know there are people who do get a kick out of coming on a forum just to stir things up. I will always call myself a petrol head and feel I have wide knowledge and first hand experience of all modern cars, but will confess to not buying into the BMW hype.

m33ufo

05-09-2007, 09:03 PM

I've driven E46 M3, M3CS and M3 CSL. Also, E92 M3, M5 and M6 FWIW....... I'm not spouting Evo-dom at you.

I still prefer a manual 'box. Even one as notchy as the M3's ;)

You obviously didn't keep the CSL long enough :D

m33ufo

05-09-2007, 09:17 PM

James I could not agree more. Mark (m33ufo) I have re read the whole thread and feel that in a few places you have contradicted yourself, I did not have the intention of entering into a slagging match, but it is now obvious that is want has happened. As we all know there are people who do get a kick out of coming on a forum just to stir things up. I will always call myself a petrol head and feel I have wide knowledge and first hand experience of all modern cars, but will confess to not buying into the BMW hype.

Apology accepted....being lighthearted!

Am sure we all sometimes jump in a little prematurely where perhaps we could have taken a little extra time to appreciate another line of thought...I'm probably as guilty as anyone of doing this on occasion.

Perhaps we can agree to disagree?

Rob_Fenn

06-09-2007, 08:56 AM

Interesting that people pay much more for an air con equipped CSL. I personally wouldn't want it.

NSX 2000

06-09-2007, 09:21 AM

Apology accepted....being lighthearted!

Am sure we all sometimes jump in a little prematurely where perhaps we could have taken a little extra time to appreciate another line of thought...I'm probably as guilty as anyone of doing this on occasion.

Perhaps we can agree to disagree?

Apology accepted, and yes we can agree to disagree.

m33ufo

06-09-2007, 10:04 AM

Interesting that people pay much more for an air con equipped CSL. I personally wouldn't want it.

For most people this car provides a dual purpose - not just a track tool. Aircon is a pretty basic requirement these days and there aren't very many CSL's that were specified without it.

Papalazarou

06-09-2007, 12:54 PM

Who doesn't appreciate aircon and what difference does it make whether you have it?

The guy on the free Autocar video was slagging off the 997 GT3 for not having it! His comment was along the lines of;

"if you're that concerned about trimming half a second off your track time, learn to drive better."

Now I'm not saying that there aren't small advantages to be had by junking this extra weight but what's the point unless you're racing?

Cheers,

James.

m33ufo

06-09-2007, 01:03 PM

Yep, I'll go along with that. Unless you are solely using the car on the track I would say the benefit of having the aircon for 95% of the time outweigh the fraction of a second you gain a couple of times a year from the 20kg reduction in weight.

Anyway, that's pretty much what most people feel hence the reduced value of cars without it...approx 2K.

Ferris Bueller

06-09-2007, 03:56 PM

You obviously didn't keep the CSL long enough :D

Perhaps, perhaps not.

Can I afford a CSL? Yes. Do I drive a CSL? No.

Draw your own conclusion!

m33ufo

06-09-2007, 04:07 PM

Perhaps, perhaps not.

Can I afford a CSL? Yes. Do I drive a CSL? No.

Draw your own conclusion!

Not sure what that means? I was referring to the gearbox, you need to give it a chance which means more that a 30 minute test drive.

All I'll say is I can only think of a small proportion of CSL owners I know who would say they don't love the SMG box on the CSL. But of course, each to their own.

I tried the DSG box on the TT and hated it. Too much lag between pressing the throttle and waiting for a corresponding reaction from the car. So I'm not generally overly impressed by paddleshift type boxes. But I do think the version of SMG on the CSL suits the car.....5 shift speeds (6 if you disable traction control) and a launch control system if you feel the need!

Papalazarou

06-09-2007, 04:46 PM

I liked the SMG box the couple of times I've driven an M3. I really like manual shift also, but sometime I wish the NSX had paddle shift.

In fact I nearly bought a CSL this time round largely because it had paddle shift and I fancied learning something different.

Cheers,

James.

m33ufo

06-09-2007, 06:14 PM

Well a change is sometimes good and the CSL box is a delight...it automatically blips the throttle on down changes, sounds fantastic especially on a quick 2 or 3 gear down-change. It just adds an extra dimension and is also quite a lot of fun.

Personally I enjoy trying different cars and just because I currently have a CSL doesn't mean it's my ultimate car. In 6 months time I may well own an NSX and in another 6 months maybe an M6 and after maybe (just maybe) an R8. It's just the car I fancy at the time. But what I will say is that the CSL is the only car I have ever owned more than once.

dan the man

06-09-2007, 10:04 PM

well this thread has been a great read, so many views and oppinions ive been glued for the last ten mins reading it all. Glad it stopped getting out of hand when it did too.

I love CSLs, cant wait for my friend to get one, carbon, alcantara, noise and stripped feel, what u need in a car!

Regardless if its a mass produced 3 series underneath, id have one but NSXs are cheaper so i stuck with honda for my 3rd car running. all been faultless :)

Rob_Fenn

07-09-2007, 02:20 PM

I quite like the SMG. I can only comment on the normal M3 my dad owned but i found the slam-you-back-into-seat sytle of the gearbox quite fun. It is really nice to have the option not to bother changing gear. I haven't tried a DSG but i am thinking of changing my daily driver to a Golf GTI for that reason.

The only annoying was the jerkiness at low throttle inputs (manoevering) or pulling out of uphill junctions.

Can you upgrade the SMG on the normal M3 to 'CSL spec'?

BTW i've just re-designed http://www.bmsport.com, keep an eye on it for CSL bits :D

m33ufo

07-09-2007, 02:51 PM

The only annoying was the jerkiness at low throttle inputs (manoevering) or pulling out of uphill junctions.

Can you upgrade the SMG on the normal M3 to 'CSL spec'?

BTW i've just re-designed http://www.bmsport.com, keep an eye on it for CSL bits :D

I agree, it can take a little practice to be smooth at low speeds, I find it most awkward when reversing out of my garage onto the drive which is on a slight incline - you do miss the ability to hold it on the clutch which comes naturally with a manual.

Where the SMG proves it's worth is 1. It's a far quicker gear change than a manual when your going for it with no backing off on the throttle and 2. For the sheer fun of it, makes you feel like a touring car driver. And lets face it, these cars are all about having fun.

Re upgrading the M3 SMG box to CSL spec, honest answer is that I don't know. But I'm pretty sure that it's more than just a software upgrade.

I'll keep an eye on the site.

m33ufo

07-09-2007, 03:09 PM

BTW i've just re-designed http://www.bmsport.com, keep an eye on it for CSL bits :D

Are there two sets of rear wheels on that CSL?

simonprelude

07-09-2007, 03:20 PM

What is it about Orange wheels at the moment ??

http://www.bmsport.com/images/gallery/bmw-gallery-14-big.jpg

I'm tempted though.

Are there two sets of rear wheels on that CSL?

Rob_Fenn

07-09-2007, 03:21 PM

I wouldn't know i'm afraid. Perhaps these other pics might help you:

http://www.bmsport.com/images/gallery/bmw-gallery-12-big.jpg

http://www.bmsport.com/images/gallery/bmw-gallery-13-big.jpg

Rob_Fenn

07-09-2007, 03:23 PM

What is it about Orange wheels at the moment ??

I'm tempted though.

Yeah, quite popular nowadays, i do really like it though! Was thinking of getting some pink Dymags!

Quite an expensive process of sorting that neon sort of colour though, BMSport are painting a whole car in day-glo.

m33ufo

07-09-2007, 03:29 PM

I may well be wrong but the spokes on the front wheels look like they are angled outwards more than normal - resembling the rear wheels. I have heard of people fitting two sets of rears for track use so I guess it's a maybe.

m33ufo

07-09-2007, 03:35 PM

The front wheels have more of a curve in the spoke than the rears, the wheels are also narrower of course but that's not visible on the pics. This is a standard front wheel pic...

http://www.corelabs.net/MyCars/M3CSL.jpg

I would say he's got two sets of rears on. Interesting look.

TheSebringOne

07-09-2007, 04:06 PM

m33ufo

07-09-2007, 04:13 PM

Sorry guys, but call me boring or old fashion, but bright coloured wheels, whether orange, yellow or green, makes the cars look a bit " toy car-ish", if you catch my drift! :D Don't get DTM on this subject ! ;) Not too bad if you've got a second set of road wheels/tyres and swap these to show off bright neon-ish colours on the track!

Lol...no, agreed. I wouldn't want that wheel on a road car but I guess it's ok for the track.

I was just commenting on the apparent use of rear wheels on the front and rear of the car.

TheQuietOne

08-09-2007, 06:29 PM

Lol...no, agreed. I wouldn't want that wheel on a road car but I guess it's ok for the track.

I was just commenting on the apparent use of rear wheels on the front and rear of the car.

If you search for a mamber on here called 'opt' and look at his threads you'll find he had an midnight purple track NSX and a CSL with rear rims back and front. He posted pics and in my opinion that is how it should look, his was very, very cool!!

m33ufo

08-09-2007, 08:28 PM

If you search for a mamber on here called 'opt' and look at his threads you'll find he had an midnight purple track NSX and a CSL with rear rims back and front. He posted pics and in my opinion that is how it should look, his was very, very cool!!

I think the anthracite / black coloured wheels look pretty good on the silver grey CSL...probably too dark on the black cars.

m33ufo

10-09-2007, 11:37 AM

Just caught an old episode of Top Gear, the facelift NSX-R went round the track in just over 1m 31s (wet lap), from memory the CSL did it in 1m 28s, again on a wet lap. Quite surprised at the difference.

forumadmin

10-09-2007, 11:41 AM

Yes, and a GT3 in 1.27.2, and that was wet also.

They are all here;

http://www.topgear.com/content/tgonbbc2/laptimes/thestig/

simonprelude

10-09-2007, 11:42 AM

If you look at the difference in the 'wet' then you probably won't be surprised.
I think the NSX-R was the wettest lap they have done.

Just caught an old episode of Top Gear, the facelift NSX-R went round the track in just over 1m 31s (wet lap), from memory the CSL did it in 1m 28s, again on a wet lap. Quite surprised at the difference.

m33ufo

10-09-2007, 11:49 AM

Yes, and a GT3 in 1.27.2, and that was wet also.

They are all here;

http://www.topgear.com/content/tgonbbc2/laptimes/thestig/

How do they identify a wet lap?

Your right, I recall the GT3 was wet and the CSL was wet.

m33ufo

10-09-2007, 12:04 PM

If you look at the difference in the 'wet' then you probably won't be surprised.
I think the NSX-R was the wettest lap they have done.

I think your right, it did look pretty wet! Can't find in on Youtube to double check.

The CSL lap was definitely much less so but it did have Michelin PS Cups on which are road legal track tyres - very little grip in the wet. I have them on my car but I wouldn't normally use them deliberately in bad conditions. Come the wetter months I'll swap the wheels over to a set with PS2's on.

NSXGB

10-09-2007, 12:35 PM

If you look at the difference in the 'wet' then you probably won't be surprised.
I think the NSX-R was the wettest lap they have done.

Yes, although we are probably guilty of being slightly biased, the lap in the NSX-R was horrendous, I could have done it quicker in a canoe!

Rob_Fenn

10-09-2007, 01:43 PM

Think you're right with the CSl wheels...

It sounds like we're making excuses for our beloved NSX-R, but that really did have torrential rain that day.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HcFQM0uMNyU

Anyone know if it had 'normal' NSX tyres or the full R's sticky ones?

I would hardly call the CSL TG test wet in fairness. Moist maybe ;) Go to 8:30 on this video.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fAmtKpaJnAo

Interestingly the NSX-R got the same time as a Noble. When i was down at Plans Motorsport (who are based at the TG Dunsfold track) Graham said the CSLs were impressive, lapping as quick as the Nobles ;)

Silver Surfer

10-09-2007, 01:48 PM

Can we lobby TG to re-test the NA2 NSX-R if Fusilov allows?
Would Plans be able to catch JC and Co when they are down in Dunsfold?

SS :cool:

m33ufo

10-09-2007, 01:49 PM

Clarkson did say that they made the CSL lap a properly wet one because the tyres had no tread and didn't work in the cold....or something to that effect !

You could tell the NSX lap was properly wet, am surprised it got so sideways.

I was seriously considering an M400 not long ago, but if the CSL's are as quick then I won't bother - why put up with all that fibreglass and ford trim for no gain :)

m33ufo

10-09-2007, 01:51 PM

Can we lobby TG to re-test the NA2 NSX-R if Fusilov allows?
Would Plans be able to catch JC and Co when they are down in Dunsfold?

SS :cool:

Think you should, it's putting me off buying one :rolleyes:

NSXGB

10-09-2007, 02:01 PM

You could tell the NSX lap was properly wet, am surprised it got so sideways.

....I'm sure the Stig did not have the ABS or TCS turned on.....:)

m33ufo

10-09-2007, 02:04 PM

It was also earlier 'black' Stig and not later 'white' Stig. I think the newer Stig may be better.

simonprelude

10-09-2007, 02:54 PM

What, better than Perry McCarthy ??

He stopped being the Stig in 2003 though so it could be either.

***Just watched it on Sky+ and it's White Stig.***

It was also earlier 'black' Stig and not later 'white' Stig. I think the newer Stig may be better.

WhyOne?

10-09-2007, 03:10 PM

What, better than Perry McCarthy ??

He stopped being the Stig in 2003 though so it could be either.

***Just watched it on Sky+ and it's White Stig.***

David Leslie then.

A man who knows his way around a Honda.

Monaco92

10-09-2007, 04:08 PM

Interesting reading about the csl. However I remember reading an article in evo few years ago when they tested a 996 gt3, Imprezza sti type ra & a csl (no aircon). At stelvio pass (fabulous pictures etc). I read the article about three times as I really wanted the csl to be the best car there. In the end it was clear in their opinion the gt3 was the best car with the scooby 2nd and csl 3rd.
I also got the notion that they felt although bmw had done many modifications to the standard m3 these did not really transcend the csl into a "much" faster car and at 60K was much more expensive than the more capable imprezza.

I did try the csl. Loved the sound & gearbox thoght the cf interior unessasary. But could not part with 60 big ones for it, and glad I didn't. It probably makes more sense now at circa 35K. Although type ra's do also if you can get one.

m33ufo

10-09-2007, 06:18 PM

I remember that article, in fact I think I still have it somewhere.

I don't think anyone can question the ability of Impreza and EVO type cars, in terms of bang for your buck they are probably unbeatable.

Your also right that the CSL isn't that much quicker than the standard M3 in terms of top speed and acceleration. It's about 180kg (from memory) lighter and has approx 15bhp more. The handling is in a different league to the M3 though - which is already the benchmark in it's class.

Going back to TG times a second, M3 1:31.8 (dry) CSL 1:28.0 (wet). That's a HUGE difference.

Carbon fibre....how can you not love carbon fibre?? Have you seen the Gallardo Superleggera? Carbon door panels, alcantara seat and wheel etc. Very very similar to the CSL. Carbon roof and front and rear bumpers on the CSL and why not, definitely aid performance plus the roof looks special.

I'm not going to knock the GT3, I'd buy one tomorrow.

Would I buy an Impreza or EVO? No, probably not. As good as they are at what they do they just don't appeal to me. The closest I ever got was back in 1999, in the end I bought an Audi S3 because even though the EVO was faster and better handling it lacked in other area's that I valued - build quality, solidity and finish.

You pay your money and you take your choice. I think the CSL is special (special in a way that appeals to me) in a way that no Impreza ever could be.....although given enough garage space and cash I'd have one to :)

Monaco92

10-09-2007, 08:03 PM

You make a very valid point about csl being special. You would not buy evo / imprezza regardless of ability. Therefore "specialness" is what makes us buy one car over another not merely figures. When I discuss the X its not so much the lap times or 0-60 etc but the fact that I am able to drive and enjoy a car I fell in love with. Beauty as they say is in the eye of the beholder.

Therefore imho it is futile arguing that a porsche is better/faster than a Toyota, becuase you know the other person will say yes but my Toyoda is more reliable! sorry!:laugh:
If you want it just get it and enjoy it. There are no regrets in life!
I once bought an Alfa it always broke down but i'm still glad I did.:D