Used NSX pricing, huge variation

[quartermain]

I'm trying to work out what a fair price would be for a 1998 3.2 manual, say 50K miles, from a dealer. What Car Price Guide says around £29K. But most prices I've seen so far are way higher. Frinstance I drove a 1995/N at Chiswick Honda on Sunday, it has 69K and it was listed at £30K though the suggestion was that it would go for a couple less. They also have a 1997 which they are listing at £33K so I'm guessing they would go down to £31K.

But today I see this: http://www.spearmintcars.co.uk/_spearmint.htm a 2000/X with 19K for £30K.

Compared to other prices I've seen, this looks suspiciously cheap (maybe it's the awful colour...).

Does anyone have an opinion of a fair price from a dealer for an early 3.2 manual coupe?

jim

[DamianW]

There's so few around its difficult to know what the value of a used NSX is. My 2001 (51 plate) 3.2 coupe with 8k miles cost 39k if it helps. That was middle of last year.

The one in the advert you've pointed at I would say is cheap for two reasons - one is the colour and the other is if it really is a "type S" then it must be an import.

[quartermain]

So what's the significance of "Type S" ?

[DamianW]

So what's the significance of "Type S" ?

Think its a US/Japan special edition. Look on www.nsxprime.com

[SimonB]

The problem is that the market is sooooo thin that you really can pay whatever you want. The price guides are not going to be much help. Some of the cars currently being advertised at dealers have been there for months on end (e.g. that spearmint car), so they should be very willing to more on price.

As an aside I got my NSX from Chiswick Honda and have only good words about the experience. Ivan (who you are probably dealing with) is as good a car salesman as you will find - and is concerned about things after the sale too......

[MattS]

I've recently bought a 1998 UK manual car with about 84k on the clock and FSH. It wasn't from a Honda dealer (although I got a Honda mechanic to check it out first) and it cost me about £23k.

I think I was lucky especially looking at the prices Honda dealers charge, but some might say that the price I paid represents the higher mileage and the fact that there's no warranty.

I've kept my eye on the classifieds for ages and I've seen many traders reduce their asking price as time progresses. However, if you see a good'un and it checks out well, it's probably worth snapping it up before someone else does!

Matt

[jaytip]

with regard to the type-s,yes there is something dodgy about it.the vin reads that it is either a 97 or 98 not actually a 2000.so the car has got an unknown past in japan.
but the price is VERY good if the car is legit, because the type-s is the most expensive NSX made,even more than the type-r(so i've been told).
the seats in it will set you back thousands alone.
i have test driven this actual car and it is very,very fast,no speed limiter on that baby.the salesman took it up to about 130mph and it got there very quickly :D

[BrownBear]

But today I see this: http://www.spearmintcars.co.uk/_spearmint.htm a 2000/X with 19K for £30K.

I agree with Ivor - something not right - wish it wasn't true (I like the colour, hate the wheels). That particular car has been travelling the dealers for ages, seems to disappear for a while then comes back again somewhere else - but when I looked at the V5 it says '1 Owner' - yeah, right. :roll:

Still every now and then I think, 'Mmmmm, Type-S...' and think about it.

History notwithstanding - the price is fab. You'll never get another one (until 2007 when the EVSA requirements expire on 1997 cars), so it could be worth it.

As for valuations - history is everything. A car with high mileage but a credible, provable history is worth much much more than one with a few stamps in a book - don't worry about the age too much..

[jaytip]

Still every now and then I think, 'Mmmmm, Type-S...' and think about it.


so i'm not alone then am i :wink:

[quartermain]

Thanks for all the comments. Yes it was Ivan Ferris who I spoke to, very nice chap. I guess I'm not alone in thinking that something that is too cheap probably is, and avoid it - maybe I miss out on bargains but I miss out on disasters too.

Heres' another one I'd appreciate people's comments on:

http://www.wishingwellgarage.co.uk/_wishingwell.htm (scroll down)

A 1996/N with 62K miles for £19,999, when most 1991/1992 cars seem to be fetching that.

Though I'd really like the updated version with the 3.2 engine, I just don't think I'm going to get one under £30K, in which case I may be paying Ivan a visit again in a few weeks....

[BrownBear]

Yes looks a very fair price for it - trouble is without seeing it, it's hard to recommend it, but if I was going to buy I'd do it now before the weather improves (values go up slightly)

Interesting roof, though, (black T-top, body coloured bar )- didn't know they did those (which is more a sign of my ignorance than me saying 'it's not right' - don't worry)

Good luck - let us know how you get on..

[khooni]

I thought the Spearmint Type S was a great price. I am actually interested in buying if the car is a legit type S. Did anyone get the VIN number? JayTip, was the dealership able to produce any of the car's history? I would like to go see it but living in London, it is quite a commute. No point going if the car has a dodgy past :roll:

[jaytip]

when i test dove the car, it was at a different dealer.
the name on the log book was a company(i cant remember the name).i believe Joe did a company search to see if the company existed,and they did not (please correct me if i am wrong Joe).
i myself tried to get the telephone # of the company on the log book,but surprise,suprise,there was no #.
the salesman tried to tell me that the owner of the car was a multi,multi millionare,who used to own one of the big mobile phone chains,or something like that,and that he only drove the car on weekends now and again(to explain the low 12000 miles on the clock).he said that he had a # of other exotics,lambo's ferrari's etc, and the NSX was not getting used.
i asked for the owners phone# so that i could contact him to ask him a few details about the car and i was told that the owner was a very arrogant man and that he would not answer/return any of my calls,so there was no point in having his #
Oh yes,and on getting in touch with the DVLA i was informed that the car had not been taxed since 2000 or 2001. now you tell me what multi(multi) millionare,does not bother to tax his car and still drive it,knowing the bashing they would get in the press for not bothering to tax their car.
So,is the car dodgy? you tell me :D

[khooni]

holy cow. Someone nearby Spearmint should go down for a look and check out the car. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is too good to be true. So, it is an import with no/ dubious history, but if it is mechanically sound and has never been crashed before, why not? I am not saying that it's a good car but I guess someone just needs to give it a good once over, check the compression, check for damages and it's all good. I'm too lazy to go check it out and realize that it's crap. Wonder if someone would :?:

[BrownBear]

Joe did a company search to see if the company existed,and they did not (please correct me if i am wrong Joe).

No, you were right. I looked up the address from the V5 as well and it was some residential road in the middle of Manchester..

Notwithstanding the history though, it is priced accordingly. If it had a perfect history etc it should be in the ~40K bracket, so as long as it meets your needs, and you're happy with it, I'd say go give it a look..

I'm not trying to put you off - after all as I implied above, it may be something I may go and see too ( :wink: )

[BrownBear]

holy cow. Someone nearby Spearmint should go down for a look and check out the car. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is too good to be true. So, it is an import with no/ dubious history, but if it is mechanically sound and has never been crashed before, why not? I am not saying that it's a good car but I guess someone just needs to give it a good once over, check the compression, check for damages and it's all good. I'm too lazy to go check it out and realize that it's crap. Wonder if someone would :?:

Send the AA - they'll obviously charge you, but if you're that lazy it shouldn't be a problem :D

I doubt any dealer would let people start doing compression tests etc, though..

Cheers

[markc]

jaytip/khooni/BrownBear,

The car being sold by Spearmint Cars is indeed a Type S, chassis number 000101.

I have looked at the car with a view to purchasing and have gone through what history there is and checked out as much as I can.

It comes with a report from Honda Japan that shows the build dates of the engine and chassis in May '97 and all the service and warranty work carried out by the supplying Honda dealer over there.
The car was originally spec'd with optional dual airbags thereby losing the lovely Momo steering wheel unique to the Type S, cruise control, and has power steering which was also an option on the Type S. This option loading means that it loses some of it's claimed 45 Kg weight saving over a regular coupe. The pearl paint finishes were also extra meaning that this car in Imola Orange Pearl was an even more expensive version of the most expensive NSX model ever!

The car was first registered in June '97 and was seen at approx 5000, 6500 and 10200Km's between then and Dec '99 for various minor servicing and warranty work.
The car was exported in early 2000 and for some reason was registered in the UK "as new" by the importer/new owner, gaining the registration number X602 WNU in the process. The importer/owner appears to have been Webb Commercials? (the Manchester address refered to by BrownBear). This is the patchiest part of the cars history. Very little seems to have happened to it from early 2000 until early 2003. I haven't been able to trace any contact details for Webb Commercials but the car stayed in these hands until March '03 when it passed to Mr Ralph Thompson who as a company director registered in the name of his company based in Milton Keynes.
Being charitable/optimistic/stupid? it is possible that Mr Webb Commercials was indeed some sort of eccentric millionaire who saw, bought and imported the, it has to be said, "very striking" car on a whim then lost it among his collection of Ferrari/Lambo/Porsche/Bentley/Merc/Hummer etc and just didn't use it!
Being cynical/pessimistic, it is also possible the car had the number plates removed and did some serious track time, had an accident and wasn't repaired for a couple of years!
During this time the speedo recalibration to MPH must have been carried out as this was already done when Mr Thompson took ownership.
I called and spoke to Mr Thompson who advised that soon after purchase he put the car into Avondale Honda in Coventry for a "major service" in April '03. I then spoke to Avonvale who confirm they performed a 27K mile service and gave the car a thorough inspection which revealed no major faults. They also supplied a new handbook/service manual. At this time the odometer showed 11,632.
Avonvale had the car back in August at 12,065 (windscreen wiper) and December at 13,132 for an oil service.
Mr Thompson sold/traded the car to Spearmint in Jan '04 who had an HPI check performed (certificate supplied) that showed no recorded finance/damage etc and sold it to the last owner Mr Robert Stracey. I spoke to Robert, a local (to Spearmint) Market Drayton resident, who said while he loved the car he hardly used it and wanted to be able to take their dog with him and his wife in their occasional/weekend car, so traded it back with Spearmint for an Merc E55AMG. Robert also had a new alarm/imobiliser fiited and put the current registration onto it. Spearmint have just had the car MOT'd, which it failed on the number plate spacing. :roll:

So the "history" is not tooo bad if you look hard enough and do some homework.

I'll admit the colour is one of those love it or loath it shades but you can't deny it's VERY striking particularly the with the roof the same colour as the body.... "you know when you've been Tango'd". It's always been one of my favourites. 8)
The car is in good but not the "immaculate" condition described in the advert, I am a perfectionist but are they ever? Close up, it is easy to tell that several panels have received some (good quality) paintwork. The front left wing has a 20p piece size imperfection in the laquer that will require re-painting and there are a few deep stone chips in funny areas like on the drivers side windscreen pillar where it meets the door. Ideally the nose could do with re-painting which is not unusual and the drivers sill is a little scratched and loose. Possibly from a fat rich bloke struggling to get in and out of such a low car??? However the seats (fantastic Recaro's) are almost like new with no marking on the orange suede centres or matching door inserts.
The wheels have some minor kerbing and IMO are too silver for the car making it look a bit "bling". I was thinking of having them refinished in the BMW M5 style anthrasite colour, what do you think?
The car starts, runs and drives very well, and as jaytip says goes like a absolute rocket whilst sounding like two :shock: The Type S, like the S Zero and Type R's, has thinner glass between the engine bay and passenger cab as well as the mesh engine cover allowing even more of that amazing engine note into the cabin.
Mechanically there are no visable oil leaks or untoward noises but it does idle a little harshly when cold, causing the steering column to shake up and down. However, I remember other NSX's I've looked at have done this as well so I'm not too worried there. Is there a known cure, a newer engine map for example? This is after all an early version of the 3.2 engine.

A couple of niggling questions remain, like what happened to the original BBS wheels? I actually quite like the current ones but would like to re-unite the car with a set of originals.
Also the gear lever seems to have been extended/lengthened, why?
The less than complete history is a worry particularly the 3 years after import but the mileage tallys with all the known service work so it could be worth the risk.

I think the car is reasonbly priced priced and if you're after something even more special than a regular NSX this is a rare opportunity to purchase one outside of Japan.

Anyway I decided to take the risk and collected the car yesterday. All fingers crossed that it is all that I hope that it is and provides me with as much pleasure as the '95 993 Carrera that it replaced in my garage.

For me this is the culmination of a very long yearning for one of these fabulous machines stretching back to the original press stories in 1989 and first road tests in 1990. I have kept all the magazines featuring NSX tests since then, carefully tagged and filed in among my various collections of motoring magazines.
I've come very close to buying a couple of NSX's since originally looking in 1999 (when I ended up with the Porsche) including the original Imola Orange 3.2 Honda UK press car (P27 OLU) in August 2001. I really thought I'd missed the boat and was content to stay in Porscheland, until I chanced upon this Type S. Wish me luck!!!

I will post a message in the new members area and I look forward to meeting up with some of you in the near future.

Cheers

Mark

[BrownBear]

Fantastic bit of investigation, there Mark. And good luck with the new car, I'm sure you'll love it - maybe we'll see you (and the Type-S) sometime this year?

Regards
Joe

[Welshman]

Fantastic bit of investigation, there Mark.

Yes, a real bit of Inspector Morse if ever I saw it!

[markc]

Yes, you'll definately see me, you can't miss the car :shock: , at some of the meets and get togethers this year.

Cheers

Mark