Targa v Coupe

[dcmoore@timber.org.uk]

I currently have an S2000 and would like to buy an NSX. I would really like a Targa, but comments about reduced stiffness and chassis precision make we wonder if for mainly road use (occasional Track days) I would really notice the difference? Has anyone driven them back to back in both situations please?

Regards,

David Moore

[Senninha]

Hi David and welcome,

There are a number of threads both on this forum and the American NSXPrime.com forum that discuss this issue in detail.

The purest will all tell you the T is one thing, the T owners another.

I moved from an S2k and previously an Elise. I like open top motoring. I wanted the same for my NSx so the decision was made.

I have been told (but dont know as a self researched fact) that the 3.2 T benefits from a stiffer shell that is actually better than the early coupe.

I did drive both 3.0 & 3.2 coupes before finding my 3.2T. For the usage you are proposing I would recommend the 3.2T. Your main problem now will be finding one!

HTH, Paul

[TheQuietOne]

Hi,

Papalazarou has had both in recent months so will probably give you his considered opinions. If you give us your email address I'm sure we can get a decent report across to you! :D

Happy hunting - you won't be disappointed which ever you go for!

Matt.

[AR]

I have been told (but dont know as a self researched fact) that the 3.2 T benefits from a stiffer shell that is actually better than the early coupe.



Heavier, yes, better debatable. I doubt any of us, except maybe Rob, Kevin or Darren will push the car that hard for it to make that much difference. The suspension will matter more.

[dcmoore@timber.org.uk]

Hi,

Papalazarou has had both in recent months so will probably give you his considered opinions. If you give us your email address I'm sure we can get a decent report across to you! :D

Happy hunting - you won't be disappointed which ever you go for!

Matt.
Many thanks.

Please E Mail me at dcmoore@timber.org.uk

Regards,

David

[Rob_Fenn]

Just to let you know David, having your username set as an email address puts you at a big risk of getting spam... you may want to try and change this somehow.

Ultimately it comes down to how important having a Targa is. Will the fact that you can't enjoy summer days quite like in the S2K outweigh the fact you have a more rigid bodyshell (and vice versa)? I have a convertible already so it's not really something to think about luckily.

For me, it's not simply the dynamics issue, it's just that i prefer the Coupe because it's as Honda intended, in it's purest form. I can't help but think the Targa was built so the Americans would buy the NSX in considerable numbers (Coupes became special orders over there).

From a practical point of view it's also quite hard to find a manual Targa, whereas there are many more manual Coupes. I'm obviously making a presumption you're after a manual though...

If you can, i'd just advise to drive both, not exactly one of of life's chores :D I doubt you'd find much of a difference between standard cars, flex would only become a real issue if you do stiffen the car. Ultimately the cornering stresses have to end up somewhere and it will be the body shell that takes it.

[TheQuietOne]

Many thanks.

Please E Mail me at dcmoore@timber.org.uk

Regards,

David

Sorry that was a stupid joke about the email address...:(

Glad James obliged though! :)

[Senninha]

Sorry that was a stupid joke about the email address...:(

Glad James obliged though!
David,

you will get used to Matt's dryer than average humour which often has me chuckling away :laugh:

Not quite as amusing as your sunroof enquiry :eek::laugh:

[TheSebringOne]

Agreed, best to test both to get the experience and feel at first hand. Also you would probably notice very little difference unless you are regular track demon!

[Boomin33]

I did a bandit KFC lunch run for the office today to the next town with the Top off. What a great sunny day, what a drive, what a feeling.
Having the roof off is very nice... and although I've been in ultra stiff cars... didn't think for a second that the chassis was lacking.. cornered like a high-end race car.

when you get one and drive it for few days, at least with the NSX, I don't think you look back wth anything but a smile no matter which one you get.

errr.. targa -- having never driven a coupe :)

If ignorance is bliss.... call me 'in heaven'

[Silver Surfer]

How's it compare to your modded 300Z?

SS

[Unregistered]

I currently own an SL55 AMG, Corvette C6 convertible and C6 targa coupe.
Considering an 04 or 05 manual coupe, will I be disappointed?.
I doubt that the NSX will have the shear grunt of either of these 3 cars, but there is something special about the NSX.
Comments appreciated ( and dont say corvettes cant go round corners, the 2nd fastest production car around the "ring" was a corvette Z06 after the Zonda.!!!!!)

[Senninha]

Hi,

Yes, the sheer grunt of your current stable will put down more than a factory NSX. As to addressing your question, the NSX delivers it performance in many ways. IMO, the biggest difference you will notice is the way the NSX communicates what it is doing. This communication comes back from the chassis in the feel, the balance and the grip that it gives the driver of a well driven NSX. It also communicates through the soundtrack it delivers. I've yet to find anyone who is not drawn to the unique sound of the Honda V6 working behind you all the way to 8k rpm.

There are a few nice late cars around and a few not that widely advertised. For great service and maybe your NSX, give Ivan a call at CHiswick Honda - 0208 996 8109.

Hope this helps, take time to drive one and you'll see what I mean. I look forward to meeting you and your new drive oneday soon.

regards, Paul

[AR]

I've had drives with slk55s and e55 and never felt I was outengine!

[Martin]

yes I think you are in cuckoo-land if you think a manual NSX will be out-engined by any of those 3 cars.

[Silver Surfer]

Errrrr......what do you mean by 'out-engined' guys?

SS :cool:

[AR]

Basically that the NSX did not run out of steam, in othere words they did not wipe the floor with it!

[dan the man]

( and dont say corvettes cant go round corners, the 2nd fastest production car around the "ring" was a corvette Z06 after the Zonda.!!!!!)



I thought RUFs were classed as production cars ? and thought carrera GT was above Zonda ?

anyway try an NSX and let us know what u think.

[NSX 2000]

I currently own an SL55 AMG, Corvette C6 convertible and C6 targa coupe.
Considering an 04 or 05 manual coupe, will I be disappointed?.
I doubt that the NSX will have the shear grunt of either of these 3 cars, but there is something special about the NSX.
Comments appreciated ( and dont say corvettes cant go round corners, the 2nd fastest production car around the "ring" was a corvette Z06 after the Zonda.!!!!!)

Always had a soft spot for the Corvette as I'm a massive Le Mans 24hour fan. I always felt that the British motor press gives the vet a bad time as it's seen to be uncool, personally if somebody gave me the keys to a C6 I wouldn't say no!

With regards to the NSX on paper it always looks like a no brainer with the competion always having more BHP more torque etc... but as any of us owners will tell you once behind the wheel it’s a different story. Just because you have big V8 cars won't mean you won't enjoy the NSX. I had a Ford F150 Lightning which has a 5.4 V8 with a super charger and that was all about the power! The NSX delivers in so many different ways I couldn’t even start to tell you, the best thing is to go and have a go in one, and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

HTH Paul.

[dan the man]

In my personal experience with vtecs and Hondas they always punch above their wieght in the statistics game.

DC2S DC5S AND NSXs all keep with supposedly faster cars on paper. When your nailing through the gears like a man possesed right to the red they deliver. On paper o-60 and 100 dosent show ther whole story imo.

the amount of evos, scoobs, 350zs, and M cars my DC5 held its own against was always making me smile. Many an owner would say i didnt know they were that fast , whats in it? err..a 2ltr.. :)

Same with an NSX in a way, i breezed past a 350Z on sunday and he was caining it, but on paper not much in them ?

but as always not all about speed with hondas :D

[Unregistered]

yes I think you are in cuckoo-land if you think a manual NSX will be out-engined by any of those 3 cars.

I would not propose to enter into a puerile arguement about which is the quickest, rather let the "ring times" and "stig" times speak for themselves.
I am asking for a reasoned opinion, not prejudice.
Its my belief that the NSX would be a much more "relaxed" car at speed on B roads compared with my Corvette's, plus the steering wheel position helps, my SL AMG being much more of a GT.
In terms of luggage capacity, there is obviously no comparison.
I have looked at a number of NSX's, and would place the SL in 1st position re quality of build/cockpit ambiance etc, and the Corvette last.
The service requirements of Corvettes are interesting, only oil/filters fluid changes until 100k miles. Perhaps its because at 75mph, its turning over 1600revs.
All three cars have their strengths and appeal to differing requirements, the NSX is just the one car that I have allways yearned for, and its my intention to grow old disgracefully.
I currently have my eye on a number of late series cars, what is involved in hardware upgrading to "R" spec, and at what cost, indeed is there any point, the base car being good enough anyway.
Reasoned opinions please, not red mist prejudice.

[Senninha]

I currently have my eye on a number of late series cars, what is involved in hardware upgrading to "R" spec, and at what cost, indeed is there any point, the base car being good enough anyway.
Reasoned opinions please, not red mist prejudice.
Hi again,

IMO, there is nothing wrong with the NSX straight from the factory. To upgrade to R spec can cost as much or as little as you want depending on how far you wish to pursue the end result.

To upgrade to NSX-R spec you would be looking for the following changes;

External appearance
- CF bonnet
- CF rear spoiler
- Lower rear diffusor OEM or CF
- Black mirrors
- Refinish wheels to white or grey
- Paint (or wrap) the top to black
- Set of R badges
- remove front fog lights

Internal
- guage set (only available in KPH)
- CF seats
- CF door peices and console
- Gear knob and gaitor

Aero
- front bumper under tray
- Front bonnet duct
- batteru undertray

Mechanical
there are many changes here, such as full suspension change including as anti-roll bars and stiffening bars. Many fit just the ARB's and stiffening bars, considering the full suspension to unforgiving for UK roads. Others include final drive changes and brakes discs / pads

There are a number of other weight reduction changes like removing one of the glass panels between the cabin and engine bay, removing a/c, stereo as examples.

You can improve the breathing and release a small amount of extra performance with exhuast and inlet changes.

Summary
As you can see, a lot you can do. All depends on what you want to acheive and depth of pockets. For example, you could swap the bonnet for as little as £1500 painted to £7000 if you choose OEM. Seats alone could cost £10000 as bespoke to the NSX-R and Honda have recovered the original moulds from Recaro to prevent replica's being made.

IMO, any of the above will tune the car to your liking. I have done a number of these and now have a fairly unique NSX. Most of the mods I have carried out are through use of OEM parts, with the originals retained so I could return to near OEM set-up if the need arrises. I've gone this route on the basis the Honda spends a lot of money on R&D so their parts will fit, look good and be functional.

One final thought - I have no knowledge of your skill behind the wheel, but without question, the best modification you can make for any car, the NSX included, is good quality driver training to understand what the NSX is doing around you, and what you could do working with it.

Hope this helps

regards, Paul

[dan the man]

From peoples experience, the R mods do seem to make a difference. As the difference between standard and an 'R' is well quite a lot imo.

[Rob_Fenn]

You can source a replica bonnet and rear spoiler for not much. The wheels are very expensive, due to the rarity, but once that is all done you'd have to look hard not to think it's a Type R. Personally i think the 'upgrades' only work on a few colours though.

Get a set of Nitrons/Ohlins and the Type stiffening bars and ARBs on and it will be as quick too.

[AR]

You can source a replica bonnet and rear spoiler for not much. The wheels are very expensive, due to the rarity, but once that is all done you'd have to look hard not to think it's a Type R. Personally i think the 'upgrades' only work on a few colours though.

Get a set of Nitrons/Ohlins and the Type stiffening bars and ARBs on and it will be as quick too.

Cheap parts = cheap parts IMHO.

Get your 02 plus wheels powdercoated as int the "custom program" and you'll be hard pressed tell them appart.

Drive the car first before changing the suspension, going hard for that extra few track seconds, might not be worth the compromised for a street car. My wife was not happy in the NSX-R and that was the softer NA1.

If you want a car to be quicker in straight line, try to source a comptech supercharger. If you wanted quicker around the bends, then get ready to spend money.

The NSX-R is a synergistic package.

Cheers,

AR

[Senninha]

I currently have my eye on a number of late series cars, what is involved in hardware upgrading to "R" spec, and at what cost, indeed is there any point, the base car being good enough anyway.
Reasoned opinions please, not red mist prejudice.

So have you bought a late NSX, something else or simply not made a decision?

If you are still on track to buy an NSX, is the above info what you were looking for?

regards,

[dcmoore@timber.org.uk]

Hi David and welcome,

There are a number of threads both on this forum and the American NSXPrime.com forum that discuss this issue in detail.

The purest will all tell you the T is one thing, the T owners another.

I moved from an S2k and previously an Elise. I like open top motoring. I wanted the same for my NSx so the decision was made.

I have been told (but dont know as a self researched fact) that the 3.2 T benefits from a stiffer shell that is actually better than the early coupe.

I did drive both 3.0 & 3.2 coupes before finding my 3.2T. For the usage you are proposing I would recommend the 3.2T. Your main problem now will be finding one!

HTH, Paul
Dear Paul,

How recent a build date can one get in a Targa model?

Regards,

David

[Senninha]

David,

The latest I know of is the recently purchased 03 Imola Targa. With the low number of registrations of 3.2 Targa my original comment about finding one still stands.

If you are not fussed for the 3.2 however, you should move VERY quickly and buy the Red 3.0 T from Mr Spanners (Phil). It is an absolute beauty!!

regards, Paul

[TheQuietOne]

I'm sure that a chap called Peter was selling his 55 plate Targa on here and Piston Heads...it was silver/grey with blue leather!!

Is that late enough...:D

[Unregistered]

The silver car in question is a coupe, not a targa.
I have looked at it.

[simonprelude]

At least one of the last 12 was a Targa.

[ade73]

So whats the on road difference in speed of the T-top compared to the coupe?

Also, whats the prices for OEM and replica parts such as Type R spoilers and bonnet scoop, what 18" wheel/tyre set ups and suspension are rated?

[Senninha]

So whats the on road difference in speed of the T-top compared to the coupe?

Also, whats the prices for OEM and replica parts such as Type R spoilers and bonnet scoop, what 18" wheel/tyre set ups and suspension are rated?
HI and Welcome,

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regards,