Zeal Suspension

[Sudesh]

Just had a look at my suspension today and noticed the blue Zeal springs. I was also wondering are my shocks different from the standard ones? Can you guys tell if they are? I'm was thinking of changing the suspension setup in my car, for the stock setup, and was wondering if its a case of just a spring change or is it springs and shocks?

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j77/icongroup/NSX/DSC01174.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j77/icongroup/NSX/DSC01175.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j77/icongroup/DSC01177.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j77/icongroup/DSC01176.jpg

[mart155]

Look like they are adjustable mate.
Let me know if you change them, I might be interested if you are getting rid.

[Sudesh]

Yeah one of the guys on prime told me its a complete ZEAL coil over suspension system so if I want to go back to stock, I will need all the Honda suspension! If its adjustable then I may try different settings, as I find at the moment the ride is quite hard.

[amo]

id stick with them as i got them on mine fully adj

thx amo

[Sudesh]

So how good is the ZEAL setup? is there any difference in weight? and is it possible for me to adjust the ride comfort?

[gumball]

Is there a knob on top of your tower?, this can adjust the shock slightly, but those springs do look very beefy. I'm sure there are a lot of would be track dayers that would be willing to arrange a swap of some sort:bigsmile:

[Sudesh]

Is there a knob on top of your tower?, this can adjust the shock slightly, but those springs do look very beefy. I'm sure there are a lot of would be track dayers that would be willing to arrange a swap of some sort:bigsmile:

Hi,

Nope had a look just now and no knob at the tops of the tower just the holding bolts. Going by the pics it looks like it could be adjustable on the actual strut as its threaded.

[mart155]

Sudesh, Have you seen this :
http://nsxcb.co.uk/testvb/showthread.php?p=36553#post36553

[Rob_Fenn]

I've seen Zeal used on a few imports. They are from Endless. They are usually light (aluminium) but the dampers are nothing special. Better than Tein or other budget makes though. I'd keep them personally, but you will have difficulty revalving them as parts would be very hard to get.

[Sudesh]

So I'm wondering if anyone can give me any idea how I can adjust my ZEAL setup for a less HARD ride? I noticed on the shock body that there is large collor type rings that can be adjusted as I found the ratchet in the tool kit that fits them. Gumball you mentioned a knob at the top of the tower to which I though was just a holding bolt but I wonder could it be what I need to adjust? Its a Large bolt with what looks like a spring?
I read that the suspension can be adjusted for height and comfort but unsure how this is done and I also emailed ENDLESS in the US but they havent replied.

Anyway here are a few more pics:
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j77/icongroup/NSX/DSC01318.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j77/icongroup/NSX/DSC01319.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j77/icongroup/NSX/DSC01321.jpg

[amo]

i think you should have a key
lookin at your last pic just below the springs you have the adjustable rings
lowering them should put some slack on the spring and i think that should be it
i think
but cheak first

on mine i have little screw knobs on top of mine with the sdjustable rings on my strut
i dont think yours are full adj


thx amo

[Sudesh]

Hi Amo,

Yeah I do have the key/Ratchet type thing that fits the rings. But will this also adjust the ride height as I quite like how it sits. I though I could adjust for comfort without altering the height but as you mentioned maybe mine is not fully adjustable in that sense.

[amo]

hi mate
turnin the rings will adjust the hight as it will tighten the spring or losen it

i think also u will get a harder ride if u tighten them making them smaller

some 1 jump in here think im gettin out of my depth lol

yes looks like yours are not fully adjustable

thx amo

[gumball]

No, thats just to stop the shock turning as you tighten the nut. You can adjust the ride hight if your bottoming out or for more curb clearance, but the springs will remain at the same stiffness.

this is the sort of thing I was talking about,
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z148/gumball3ooo/z2e_dial.gif
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z148/gumball3ooo/zero2elayout.jpg
I thought that a previous owner may have set the shocks to a hard setting, give a little leeway.

[Sudesh]

Hi!! Thanks for the diagram!! The tab on the top of my strut does look similar to the one in the diagram, I just doesnt have the numbered circle. Also I noticed on the diagram that it points to the height adjustment being the bottom lock nut on the strut as apposed to the lock nuts just below the spring? Probably a stupid question but, would that indicate that I could adjust the spring giving a slightly softer ride but leaving the ride height as is?

[gumball]

Notice the flattened piece of thread below the adjuster, this does the same as the "tab" on yours. The second(lower) lock nut adjusts the height of the shock in the case so maintaining or adjusting the relationship with the bumpstop, neither adjust or compress the spring i'm afraid.

[Sudesh]

Sorry I'm slightly lost now! lol!! When you refer to the "flattened" piece of thread, where exactially is this? My shock is completely threaded from the very lowest locking nut right up past the spring!

[gumball]

Sorry I'm slightly lost now! lol!! When you refer to the "flattened" piece of thread, where exactially is this? My shock is completely threaded from the very lowest locking nut right up past the spring!

The flattened thread is on the one I posted with the adjuster, it's just a means of holding the shock from twisting as you tighten the top nut, same as your "tab" does on top of your non-adjustable shocks.
Largely irrelevant, didn't mean to confuse:bigsmile:

[Sudesh]

Ah right!! Got you now, thanks for that!! So basically there is nothing at the top of my shock that will help with anything. Then on the shock itself you have the lower lock nut at the very bottom of the sock that will adjust the height which will enable me to raise or lower the car slightly, So what about the lock nuts just at the base of the spring?

[Sudesh]

Well I eventually got some info from a Endless Zeal dealer on the setup in my car. The suspension is adjustable for comfort and height via the collor type adjustment, but after I sent a few pics to the Zeal guys, they have concluded that my car has quite hard/track springs and they rated them as 12k at the front and 14k at the rear? I have no idea what that means? But they advised me to change them to 8k at the front and 10k at the rear which will vastly improve the comfort. Does this sound about right to any of you suspension gurus?

[Kevin]

12 and 14k refers to 12kg/mm, it takes 12kg to compress the spring 1mm. This is pretty hard. The Type R has around 10kg springs, as does mine.

Harder in the rear is also adding to some oversteer, unless the anti roll bars are different too to compensate.

NO adjusting is going to improve the ride. If the dampers aren't adjustable then they won't be any use if you just change the springs. Softer springs with stiff dampers will move too slowly and the car will skip over bumps.

Adjusting the height, will not affect anything either.

[Sudesh]

Been a while but need to re-address this issue. With the nice weather I went for a road trip today to Southern Ireland, however it reached the stage where the car became unbearable to drive and more important quite dangerous. My parents have a place in Donegal and by the time I reached there it felt like I went 10 rounds in the boxing ring, and when it came to leave I wasnt looking forward to the trip back.

So I really need to get the suspension sorted as I know from driving NSX's with standard suspension that, they could take the roads I was on with no issues! My bro can travel the same route in his 911 and you barely feel a thing. In my car you feel EVERYTHING and it's multiplied 50 times!

So what to do?

Change suspension completely?
Change Just the Springs [if I can get someone to get me springs to suit]

What are would be the best spring rate? What is the standard NSX's sprin rate?

I was thinking 8kg front and 10kg rear?

[NSXGB]

Spring wise, I think 8 & 10 KG will still be way too high.

However, I only deduce this from the fact that on the SOS website the Type-S spring rate is F 6.5Kg & R 5.0Kg.

My 2p....would be to get either complete Type-S or Standard Coupe suspension. You will then have it the way Honda R&D designed it regarding spring and damper rates.

http://www.scienceofspeed.com/products/suspension_performance_products/NSX/Honda/Type-S_suspension/

[gumball]

Spring wise, I think 8 & 10 KG will still be way too high.

However, I only deduce this from the fact that on the SOS website the Type-S spring rate is F 6.5Kg & R 5.0Kg.

My 2p....would be to get either complete Type-S or Standard Coupe suspension. You will then have it the way Honda R&D designed it regarding spring and damper rates.

http://www.scienceofspeed.com/products/suspension_performance_products/NSX/Honda/Type-S_suspension/

The type S seems really good value for springs, dampers and a rear roll bar.

[NSXGB]

The type S seems really good value for springs, dampers and a rear roll bar.

I think the roll bar is extra but you can beat that price anyway if you look around.

[Sudesh]

Thanks for that! Type-S might be the way to go. Any idea what the standard spring rate is? curious on the difference.


Spring wise, I think 8 & 10 KG will still be way too high.

However, I only deduce this from the fact that on the SOS website the Type-S spring rate is F 6.5Kg & R 5.0Kg.

My 2p....would be to get either complete Type-S or Standard Coupe suspension. You will then have it the way Honda R&D designed it regarding spring and damper rates.

http://www.scienceofspeed.com/products/suspension_performance_products/NSX/Honda/Type-S_suspension/

[NSXGB]

Thanks for that! Type-S might be the way to go. Any idea what the standard spring rate is? curious on the difference.



Type-S setup:
F6.5 kg/mm (103% increase over OEM)
R5.0 kg/mm (32% increase over OEM)

You might be able to work it out from that....:)


I would say in the region of F3.2Kg R 3.78Kg.

[Sudesh]

WOW! I didnt think it would be that low of a rating?

I believe you have the type-s suspension? how does it feel on the road and whats it like when you hit a cats eye or a rough patch on the road?

Hitting a cats eye in my car, feels like I went over a brick at 60mph, and a rough patch is like going into a pot hole.

I'm going to make a decision today on the suspension and might just replace the complete setup.


You might be able to work it out from that....:)


I would say in the region of F3.2Kg R 3.78Kg.

[NSXGB]

WOW! I didnt think it would be that low of a rating?

I believe you have the type-s suspension? how does it feel on the road and whats it like when you hit a cats eye or a rough patch on the road?

Hitting a cats eye in my car, feels like I went over a brick at 60mph, and a rough patch is like going into a pot hole.

I'm going to make a decision today on the suspension and might just replace the complete setup.

I would check my calculations with the Oracle before taking them as gospel....:)

If mine was a daily driver I would possibly think twice about the Type-S setup. It's a firm ride but not as bad as you describe with yours. You need to come to a UK meet and try before you buy....:D

[gumball]

I think the roll bar is extra but you can beat that price anyway if you look around.

specifications (early Type-S compared to standard coupe):
ride height drop F -.6"
R -.3"
damper compression F 150 kg/.3m/s (99% increase)
...........................R 170 kg/.3m/s (31% increase)
damper rebound F 195 kg/.3m/s (72% increase)
......................R 230 kg/.3m/s (50% increase)
spring rate F 6.5 kg/mm (103% increase)
...............R 5.0 kg/mm (32% increase)
stabilizer bars F 18.3 mm (no change)
...................R 19.1 mm (1.6mm larger) *

* I thought this meant it was part of the Type-S kit?
Oh well it still seems a great compromise, in the Best Motoring shows the Type-S does very well on track, with much less of that horrible roll you get in an early stock car.

[NSXGB]

specifications (early Type-S compared to standard coupe):
ride height drop F -.6"
R -.3"
damper compression F 150 kg/.3m/s (99% increase)
...........................R 170 kg/.3m/s (31% increase)
damper rebound F 195 kg/.3m/s (72% increase)
......................R 230 kg/.3m/s (50% increase)
spring rate F 6.5 kg/mm (103% increase)
...............R 5.0 kg/mm (32% increase)
stabilizer bars F 18.3 mm (no change)
...................R 19.1 mm (1.6mm larger) *

* I thought this meant it was part of the Type-S kit?
Oh well it still seems a great compromise, in the Best Motoring shows the Type-S does very well on track, with much less of that horrible roll you get in an early stock car.

I could be wrong but it also says: "The suspension is complete set for front and rear including pre-assembled dampers, springs, and upper mounting hats."

Either way I think you'd be surprised at what Vtec could supply that lot for....

[gumball]

I could be wrong but it also says: "The suspension is complete set for front and rear including pre-assembled dampers, springs, and upper mounting hats."

Either way I think you'd be surprised at what Vtec could supply that lot for....

My budget for this year is gone (new taitec gtlw + headers) but next year... :think:

[Sudesh]

Yeah spoke to Kaz and got some good info back as always.

Front / Rear All unit in [kgf/mm]

Normal early Coupe 3.2 / 3.8
NA1 Type-R: 8.0 / 6.0
Later Coupe: 3.5 / 4.0
Type-S: 6.5 / 5.0

Mines not a daily driver, hence why I put up with the ride quality till now. I'm hoping to do a few more runs this year and possibly over to europe so the setup has to go.

As I mentioned to Kaz, I'm pretty much a very slow driver, usually 50/60mph or 70 at the most, I dont do track events either so NSX-R/NSX-S suspension would really be of no benifit to me. My car is never driven in the wet and during winter is stored for 3 maybe 4 months. So maybe I'm just better going for the later NSX spring rates/setup?

Next question is, what would my Zeal coilover be worth? Would they be of any use to anyone?



I would check my calculations with the Oracle before taking them as gospel....:)

If mine was a daily driver I would possibly think twice about the Type-S setup. It's a firm ride but not as bad as you describe with yours. You need to come to a UK meet and try before you buy....:D

[modarr]

I have a standard 91 car suspension in the garage if you are interested?
Came off the car many years ago at around 50k miles.
Regards
Mo

[markc]

Suspension options come up regularly, below are a couple that discuss the Type S suspension. The second thread has a table (at post no.19) with the various spring rates and anti-roll bar options used over the years and models.

http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/testvb/showthread.php?t=4862&highlight=suspension
http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/testvb/showthread.php?t=5041&highlight=suspension&page=2

From your description of your requirements and usage of the car you'd be better off going back to stock.

Cheers

Mark

[Sudesh]

Hi Mark,

Yeah pretty much my thinking at the moment. Although Kaz pointed out something I forgot and that's the difference in weight my car is to standard coupe. And when I look at the NSX-R and NSX-S setup's, they are softer at the rear, compared to the standard cars being harder at the rear, I guess is all down to balancing and shifting the bias on the NSX-R and Type-S due to the weight reductions.

So I might go with a 5.0 front and 4.0 rear setup which will give me a bit of understeer should the time arise lol It shouldnt be anywhere near as hard which is the key thing for me, and if I dont go with that type of setup as you said, I could go for standard coupe setup.


Suspension options come up regularly, below are a couple that discuss the Type S suspension. The second thread has a table (at post no.19) with the various spring rates and anti-roll bar options used over the years and models.

http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/testvb/showthread.php?t=4862&highlight=suspension
http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/testvb/showthread.php?t=5041&highlight=suspension&page=2

From your description of your requirements and usage of the car you'd be better off going back to stock.

Cheers

Mark

[Sudesh]

Thanks for letting me know, I'm most likely going to go with a different setup that's adjustable, and as above different kg front and rear.


I have a standard 91 car suspension in the garage if you are interested?
Came off the car many years ago at around 50k miles.
Regards
Mo

[PeteM]

Hi Mo,

You Have a pm regarding suspension.

Cheers

Pete.

[gcon45]

12k springs on coilovers with no damping force adjustment and living in Limavady?

Holy moly! That's enough to shake the fillings out of your head! :eek:

What about a Tein Monoflex setup with camber adjustable pillowball top mounts Sudesh?

They can be set up to be quite pliable. The setup would be around £1500 iirc.

[forumadmin]

12k springs on coilovers with no damping force adjustment and living in Limavady?

Holy moly! That's enough to shake the fillings out of your head! :eek:

What about a Tein Monoflex setup with camber adjustable pillowball top mounts Sudesh?

They can be set up to be quite pliable. The setup would be around £1500 iirc.

Camber adjustable top mounts won't work. The NSX is double wishboned, not McPherson strutted.

The harshness of the ride, is greatly affected by the damping quality I found, not just spring rates.

[gcon45]

Well I eventually got some info from a Endless Zeal dealer on the setup in my car. The suspension is adjustable for comfort and height via the collor type adjustment, but after I sent a few pics to the Zeal guys, they have concluded that my car has quite hard/track springs and they rated them as 12k at the front and 14k at the rear? I have no idea what that means? But they advised me to change them to 8k at the front and 10k at the rear which will vastly improve the comfort. Does this sound about right to any of you suspension gurus?


Camber adjustable top mounts won't work. The NSX is double wishboned, not McPherson strutted.

The harshness of the ride, is greatly affected by the damping quality I found, not just spring rates.

Doh! Completely forgot about that.

My head is still in Evo land!

Still - the mono flex are worth a look.

PS - do Öhlins make a kit for the NSX?