Thinking of turning to the dark side.

[jaytip]

I have been looking at Pistonheads and Autotrader a lot recently and was supprised to see that 8K and my NSX will get me a Farrari 360.
When i first thought about getting one i dismissed the idea because the servicing would be too expensive but having found this site, http://www.dkeng.co.uk/frames.php
now i'm not so sure.Yes it's still more to service than the NSX but not massively so,and i think the depreciation on the 360 will be very slow compered to what i will lose on my almost new NSX,so money wise i don't think i would be that much out of pocket after the initial purchase,and if the plot of land i have on the side of my house sells for what the local estate agents have said,then i will have enough money to pay off my current loan and have enough over to put toward the 360,so i would not have to borrow any more money for it.While i have enjoyed NSX ownership since first buying one in 02 there are other,better exotics out there.Ultimately i would like an R8 on my drive in about 4-5 years if they come down enough in price by then and i think my money would hold better in the 360 than it would in my NSX.

Thoughts please,ladies and gents.

Ivor.

[PeteM]

Hi Ivor,

A good friend of mine has a 360 spyder and I must admit there is nothing that can beat the sound of that engine IMO, but it has been in the garage being repaired more times than he has had it parked on his driveway !

From my passenger perspective it is quicker than my Nsx at least and it's levels of grip are truly amazing but I personally could not put up with it's reliability issues all of which have not been the fault of the driver.

The dealership that he has dealt with are very poor in both their mechanical skills and customer relations. Car actually came back with a scratch and a noisy cam belt after it was serviced.

IMO try it and see how it goes for you but I have a feeling you will get back into a Nsx again. :)

Regards Pete.

[NSXGB]

Was supposed to go out in my mate's Challenge Stradale the other day.....bloody thing wouldn't start!

[Silver Surfer]

Out of interest......how much were you thinking of letting you NSX go?

The 360 is a good ferrari if you do choose one and as your link site has indicated, simple service and cam belt change every 18k miles aren't that rediculous........but how much does an engine rebuild and all the other gremlins will cost as I have seen a few ads with 'engine reconditioned' in the past??

It would be a good informative real life feed back on it's running cost cf the NSX if you do go this route. Best of luck!

SS

[gumball]

When I saw the "dark side" title, I thought you were after a Porsche:bigsmile:.
I love the look and sound of the 360 engine, but make sure you get a gooden.

[dan the man]

were here for a good time not a long time.

If u wana do it DO it, but be aware of what can happen with exotica like that. :)

At least they are both aluminium so one thing in common :D!

[amo]

well i was going over that side before the nsx
but glad i spent a **** load and kicked a f430's ass lol

but if u have to go for it and you allways can come back
hope to see you on the 2nd

thx amo

[jaytip]

Before i make any decisions i'm going to research the the 360 carefully.The reason for choosing that model is because i thought that that was the model that Ferrari started making reliable :think:

SS,not sure mate,but i paid 40K for it a few months ago so would want as close to that as possible i guess,although if someone made me a sensible offer i might let it go.

The main reason for choosing the 360 is money.With my budget i would be buying the earliest 360's and i think in depreciation terms they are at where the earliest NSX's are now,I.E holding their value and depreciating very slowly.As i said above,my real aim is to get an R8 which = reliability and performance,but for the next few years they will be beyond my reach.

[markc]

The problem with newish Fezza's (all of them) is no one wants them if they've got any miles on the clock.
You'll see the vast majority of 5 year old Ferrari's advertised with less than 10K under the wheels. Do anything like normal mileage and values plummet. Of course this doesn't take into the servicing costs that go with normal mileage either.
You may be able to hold on to more residual value with a 360 than your NSX but you won't dare use it.
Looks a nice shape to wash and polish at the weekends tho' ;)

Mark

[gumball]

I'd rather go for a 40k+ Ferrari, every problem found and nicely run-in.
Couldn't really aspire to own an R8 myself, there so bland:(

[NSX 2000]

I thought about a fezza as well, but for 3 reasons I didn't.
1) Unfortunately 99% of other road users will think you have a VERY small dick!
2) If I took a fezza to my local cinema car park, whilst I was watching the movie I would be paranoid that it might get stolen and high chance it might get keyed
3) If the wife and I took it to europe for a long weekend would only have room for our toothbrush!

Items 2 and 3 I have done in the NSX many a time, item 1 is just the way it's I'm affraid.

HTH
Paul.

[jaytip]

I thought about a fezza as well, but for 3 reasons I didn't.
1) Unfortunately 99% of other road users will think you have a VERY small dick!
2) If I took a fezza to my local cinema car park, whilst I was watching the movie I would be paranoid that it might get stolen and high chance it might get keyed
3) If the wife and I took it to europe for a long weekend would only have room for our toothbrush!

Items 2 and 3 I have done in the NSX many a time, item 1 is just the way it's I'm affraid.

HTH
Paul.
I think i have to agree with you on the first two,i probably would never do the third anyway being that i now have a little un to take car of.
I live in a relatively small town where my family are well known because we had a very successfull martial arts club,and as such i know many many people in my town.Those i know,know i love my cars,those that don't know me will probably think as you say but i'm not really bothered by someone i don't know's thoughts.

P.S i'm too paranoid to take the NSX out anywhere and leave unattended at the moment anyway so i would be no worse off in the 360

[BabyG]

I will own a 550 Maranello one day.

With the V8s my preference would be F355 for the looks or wait for an F430 - imho the 360 lost the looks but hadn't yet figured out the handling. Listening to that noise on the test drive might convince me otherwise though :rolleyes:.

Totally different ownership proposition though - NSX is (for me) a use anywhere only car, fezza perhaps not.

[AR]

P.S i'm too paranoid to take the NSX out anywhere and leave unattended at the moment anyway so i would be no worse off in the 360

Well imagine how I feel in Cardiff! If I go to the movies is night on impossible to find a good spot that is well lit or close to CCTV.

Now if one finds a chav messing with the car, I am sure the CCTV images will be there!

I know a guy with a Diablo and is receiving an LP640 in June/July, and I feel so tempted to make him an offer as I know his car is mint, but then I am trying to be parctical, so hardly a proposition.

I think with people like us, a Ferrari will be no more than an NSX to maintain, certainly one would not spend as much money modding it!!!

Cheers,

AR

[simonprelude]

Is that the one that was up for sale in October last year ??



I know a guy with a Diablo and is receiving an LP640 in June/July, and I feel so tempted to make him an offer as I know his car is mint, but then I am trying to be practical, so hardly a proposition.

[Senninha]

Hi Ivor,

There's no question they sound superb (when they're running) and do turn heads but I do think that they are de-valued due to the footballer label. I'd also question the respect you get from other road users compared to the NSX, ie, being let out at junctions and so forth.

My ex boss had an early 360 and similar to above comments, it was at the dealer more than his drive.

As for holding value it is a difficult one to offer any real direction on. The dealer network suggest that average mileage should be around 4k per annum otherwise your residuals plummet.

If I was in your position and was considering an F car then I would think about the following;
- consider a well documented 355 as IMO it is the better looking car
- if 360, then look for a higher mileage spider. If its to be a sunshine car then get the most sun you can. Buying higher mileage, but doing less miles would be more likely to stabalise the residual for you as you would be strengthening the value from date of purchase.

I have no personal experience but have often read that regularly used Ferraris have less mechanical gremlins. It would also mean that you could in fact buy a later 360 (with early niggles corrected) for similar money to a low mileage, higher priced early model.

Finally, I would visit and talk to some independant specialists. You are more likely to find either of the above options with a good documented history from a specialist rather than a main dealer.

My final point is a question to yourself. If your land sale will leave you debt free on the NSX, why not invest the Ferrari 'purchase' money and let it grow in value. Keep your stunning NSX, use and enjoy it knowing that it will always be a sought after car and move straight to the R8.

[jaytip]

Couldn't really aspire to own an R8 myself, there so bland:(
Alongside an NSX maybe,but i think that in isolation or indeed parked next to any normal car then it looks really aggressive.I would basically be getting the same core values as we have now with the NSX.A car that is relatively rare,looks good ( IMO ) reliable and excellent to drive.

[jaytip]

A good reply Paul.I will try to answer some of your points.

The 355,is a beautifull car,more so then the 360 and the NSX i think,but i would be reluctant to spend the 40K+ needed for a lower milage example of what would be a 10year+ old car.

Regarding a 360 spyder,i don't like them.I like the lines of the coupe,same goes for the Audi TT and Porsche 911.I think cutting the roof off them ruins the lines on them.That's why i like the NSX targa,because even though you have roof off motoring you still have the coupe lines.

I would be hoping that a slightly higher milage 360 would as Gumball suggests,have had and problems ironed out or corrected.An 02 model is way out of my price range.I'm going to keep an eye out on Autotrader and Pistonheads to see the milage on cars that are selling.The cheapest 360's i see at the moment are all just over the 40K mark,the cheapest straight 355's i'm seeing are close to the 40K mark.I don't see the 360 dipping below the bottom prices of the 355(although i could be wrong there)so i think they prices have bottomed out,or certainly close to it.

I may have some time to wait for the correct car in my price range anyway because i want a manual not an F1 and they seem to be fewer on the ground and a bit more expensive.

Regading my land,i think you have mis-understood.The land has been valued at 30K so after paying off my loan i will only be left with a small amount of money,nowhere near enough to invest and let it grow while keeping the NSX.

I'm looking at 5 years down the road.Looking at current Ferrari prices i think the earliest 360's will still be circa 40K but my NSX will probably have dropped 10K in that time,so my outlay on an R8 would be a possible 10K more.Am i making sense??not sure!!

Regards,

Ivor

[TheSebringOne]

Ivor, I know you don't like Spyders, but my neighbour owned a silver 52 plate 360 Spyder, he brought it for about £95K 4 years ago (not sure of mileage at purchase), he did less than 2k to 3k pa, sold it last year and think only got mid to late £60K for it (think Ferrari sold it for him,then taken commission). He has top of the range RR as main drive. Question is I think Spyders will hold money better than coupes and the main reason prices started to depreciate heavily is the introduction of the F430! The sound of the 360 is amazing compared to the NSX, but I love the more throtty sound of the F355! HTH :)

[jaytip]

Ivor, I know you don't like Spyders, but my neighbour owned a silver 52 plate 360 Spyder, he brought it for £95K 4 years ago, did less than 2k to 3k pa, sold it last year and think only got early to mid £60K for it. He has top of the range RR as main drive. Question is I think Spyders will hold money better than coupes and the main reason prices started to depreciate heavily is the introduction of the F430! The sound of the 360 is amazing compared to the NSX, but I love the more throtty sound of the F355! HTH :)
If i were to buy a newer one-which i can't due to funds-i know i would take a bigger hit on the depreciation,that's why i think the early 360's are going to be my best bet.The cheapest spyder on Autotrader at the moment is 57K-10K+ more than i can afford to spend.
An early 360 is going to be the equivelent to an early NSX in terms of depreciation.Do you think that a 91 in good nick that is bought for 17-18K is going to lose a lot of money in 5 years? i don't.I think it would lose 3-4K max,and i think it will be the same with the earliest 360's,whereas i'm going to lose about 10K on the NSX.
Of course,nothing is writen in stone yet and i may end up keeping the NSX,but i do think this looks rather nice.

[Papalazarou]

You've got to buy what you want in the end I guess.

The 360's really do sound great as does the 355 with the five valve engine.
I think the comment about the perception of others is similar to what a neigbour voiced to me once; "I wouldn't own a nice car because someone will vandalise it."

If we all thought like that we'd never do anything. In fact although undoubtably some people would think you were a ****, other people would think you were going somewhere, you'd nicked it or that you'd won the lottery.

In fact it's quite feasible that whilst I'm cruising through town in my NSX soaking up the admiring glances, that actually they're looking at my car! Obviously I haven't indulged that one too much.

It reminds me of the pub senario; You go into a pub and sit on your own for 30 mins. You have no control over what other people think of you sitting alone in the corner; some may think you are waiting for someone, some that you haven't got any friends, you've basically no control.

That also goes for the NSX; the mondeo driver commenting that you must be loaded to own an NSX with low and in some cases zero depreciation, whilst his car loses half it's value in the first 18 months.

Christ, someone asked me whether my NSX was an 80's kit car the other day!! How cool is that.

I say, buy the 355/360 and enjoy it. Just remeber where you came from NSX boy!!!


Cheers,


James.

[gumball]

I see they have dipped below £50,000 now

http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/FERRARI+360/Ne-2-4-5-6-7-8-27-44-49-53-61-64-67-103-133-146,N-4294965511-4294967092/advert.action?R=200807108672964&distance=179&postcode=co155ul&channel=CARS&make=FERRARI&model=360&min_pr=&max_pr=&max_mileage=

Not for the first time, i'll go against the grain and say how much better I think the 360 looks against the 355:bigsmile:


Way off topic,
I see you were involved with martial arts jaytip, i've just started kung fu(after doing tai chi for a couple of years), my hips can certainly tell the difference, ouch.

[Silver Surfer]

What's style of kung Fu is it Gumball?

SS

[gumball]

What's style of kung Fu is it Gumball?

SS


I'm not really that up on styles to be honest and there are no kung fu temples round here so I i'm learning from various dvd's but mostly from Sifu Shi Yan Mings Shaolin kung fu book, very good physically and mentally, fortunately for me it doesn't include iron jacket kung fu such as iron groin:bigsmile:

[jaytip]

Way off topic,
I see you were involved with martial arts jaytip, i've just started kung fu(after doing tai chi for a couple of years), my hips can certainly tell the difference, ouch.
Yeah,i did it for 13 years.Started off with traditional Shotokan karate,then switched to Wado-Ryu,then we developed our own style purely for the competition side of it.We didn't go for the "art" side of the martial arts but for the competition side.
I used to be really friendly with guys a from Lau-Gar Kung Fu school in Bristol.We would meet up regularly all over the country in tournaments.One of them went on to be one of the presenters on Fight School.

[jaytip]

I say, buy the 355/360 and enjoy it. Just remeber where you came from NSX boy!!!


Cheers,


James.
I would never forget my Supercar roots :no:

[Senninha]

Hi Ivor,

You've definately got me thinking about this one! Although we've yet to meet, I get the feeling that you like to change your P&J on a fairly regular basis. This got me thinking about an alternative option to buying the 360.

Why settle for one car?

This may be a bit of a curve ball, but what about membership to one of the high performance car clubs rather than ownership?

The best known is the P1 that Damon Hill has an interest in. There are a few others to consider and some time would need to be spent to ensure you could get the best fleet to suit your preferences.

As an example and bearing in mind your earlier figures, I found this:

http://www.grouptwenty.co.uk/Default.aspx

So by my quick reckoning, for the money you would spend buying and maintaining the Ferrari, you could keep the NSX, join this type of club, and if it is this one you could be driving the R8 this year!!

If you go this route I would like to make one request please .... can I come out with you when you borrow the Zonda? :D

Regards, Paul

[jaytip]

Hi Ivor,

You've definately got me thinking about this one! Although we've yet to meet, I get the feeling that you like to change your P&J on a fairly regular basis. This got me thinking about an alternative option to buying the 360.

Why settle for one car?

This may be a bit of a curve ball, but what about membership to one of the high performance car clubs rather than ownership?

The best known is the P1 that Damon Hill has an interest in. There are a few others to consider and some time would need to be spent to ensure you could get the best fleet to suit your preferences.

As an example and bearing in mind your earlier figures, I found this:

http://www.grouptwenty.co.uk/Default.aspx

So by my quick reckoning, for the money you would spend buying and maintaining the Ferrari, you could keep the NSX, join this type of club, and if it is this one you could be driving the R8 this year!!

If you go this route I would like to make one request please .... can I come out with you when you borrow the Zonda? :D

Regards, Paul
10K+VAT for 1 month in admittedly nice cars is a little too rich for my blood.You do know i drive a taxi for a living don't you ;)

[TheSebringOne]

So they must tip very well for you to have your latest P & J! :D

[jaytip]

So they must tip very well for you to have your latest P & J! :D
Nah, i just sweet talked my bank manager :D

[gumball]

Would be nice to join one of those car share clubs but would miss the pride of it being my car,
you know, like when you first got the NSX and keep looking at it through the window, grinning:bigsmile:

[nigel]

Think this thing through. Any pillick can own a Ferrari but it takes class to own one of our cars.

Cheers
nigel

[BabyG]

I looked hard at ClubGT before I decided to buy - great range of cars which are a bit older and have done most of their depreciation. It's significantly cheaper than most clubs and has a range of sub-super cars which are still interesting. Thought this would be good as they were cars I'd be unlikely to buy but keen to see what they're like for a weekend. No R8 though..

As yet no regrets in going for (hopefully depreciation proof) supercar ownership instead.

[jaytip]

Think this thing through. Any pillick can own a Ferrari but it takes class to own one of our cars.

Cheers
nigel
I did think it through.I thought(but it looks like i thought wrong)that 360 prices had pretty much bottomed out,but the general concensus on Fchat is that they are still dropping rapidly.The idea was to use the Ferrari as a slowly depreciating stepping stone to an R8 in about five years.Yes i could just sell the NSX and invest the money over a 5 year period,but i would like to be able to open my garage and jump into a supercar anytime i wanted to over the same period and i thought that the 360 would enable me to do that while losing less in depreciation than my NSX.But it looks like i thought wrong,so i'm sticking around guys.
For what it's worth,check out this link.I thought they were being very honest and giving the NSX it's fair due.http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=187813

[gumball]

I'm not a big fan myself but, wouldn't a 911 turbo be more depreciation proof ?

[jaytip]

I'm not a big fan myself but, wouldn't a 911 turbo be more depreciation proof ?
It probably would,but there are three in the small town i'm living in :rolleyes: I guess that's part of the reason for the 360.Like the NSX,it's quite rare,at least around these parts anyway.

[gumball]

Here's a mad suggestion,
http://www.topgear-cars.co.uk/pages/popup.php?id=258

[TheQuietOne]

Here's a mad suggestion,
http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/LAMBORGHINI+DIABLO/Ne-2-4-5-6-7-8-27-44-49-53-61-64-67-103-133-146,N-4294962150-4294965188/advert.action?R=200708271593068&distance=342&postcode=co155ul&channel=CARS&make=LAMBORGHINI&model=DIABLO&min_pr=&max_pr=&max_mileage=

I've seen this car at Super Car Sunday at Gaydon twice - it is pretty garish TBH!

P.S. I'd loose your postcode from the link gumball you don't want to be the second owner to have their car pinched this week :eek:!

[gumball]

Done, but anyway I have sold my NSX and now have a rusty bicycle.

[TheQuietOne]

Done, but anyway I have sold my NSX and now have a rusty bicycle.

Clever...:D

[jaytip]

Here's a mad suggestion,
http://www.topgear-cars.co.uk/pages/popup.php?id=258
I love the Diablo(to look at) but it is just too over the top.

[AR]

I've seen this car at Super Car Sunday at Gaydon twice - it is pretty garish TBH!

Garish as in good or bad?

Cheers,

AR

[markc]

Is garish ever good? ;)

[AR]

Is garish ever good? ;)

In one word:

Yes!

Cheers,

AR

[TheSebringOne]

I've always prefered Lambos over Fezzas, but owning one I'm not sure when it was Italian owned/built? They look the dog's b------s (pardon me) and with proper supercar proportions, but to drive one it must be a massive occasion, but scary due its wide size & visability! Also not sure about reliability being pre Audi? Maybe a late Diablo GT if you avoid speed bumps, speed calming narrow roads and other wide lorries!

[NSX 2000]

Whilst out and about yesterday we spotted 3 brand new 08 reg cars, a Ford Focus CC a BMW 3 series and yes you've guessed it a 430. I think they are starting to become rather common.
Paul.

[Silver Surfer]

Spotted a Porsche 997 Turbo on a 08 plate today on the M25. New improved rear end look with 'square' tips at each corner....quite nice.

SS

[dan the man]

Whilst out and about yesterday we spotted 3 brand new 08 reg cars, a Ford Focus CC a BMW 3 series and yes you've guessed it a 430. I think they are starting to become rather common.
Paul.

and how many 08 NSXs were about- exactly NONE!

:)


ha ha

[Ferris Bueller]

I'd be interested to know what people think of the 355 and 360 in terms of driving experience. I've not driven a 355 but obviously love the way they look. However the running costs, reliability and depreciation scrub them off my list at the moment. The 360 may be more reliable but the running costs and depreciation are still mega for what, personally, I felt was an inferior driving experience. OK, the 360 sounds great, moreso from the outside, is a little quicker and has more drama but pound for pound, my pound at least, the NSX trades punches with it and gives away very little, if anythingas an overall package.

[gumball]

I'd be interested to know what people think of the 355 and 360 in terms of driving experience. I've not driven a 355 but obviously love the way they look. However the running costs, reliability and depreciation scrub them off my list at the moment. The 360 may be more reliable but the running costs and depreciation are still mega for what, personally, I felt was an inferior driving experience. OK, the 360 sounds great, moreso from the outside, is a little quicker and has more drama but pound for pound, my pound at least, the NSX trades punches with it and gives away very little, if anythingas an overall package.


Hav'nt driven a 355 but...;), Reading about, I think they were probably fine when new but go saggy quite quickly, they used to use them at Silverstone and the instructors there were rather unimpressed by them. From the ones I have seen, alot have bubbling wheel arches(360s are alloy), shrunken dashboard leather and are also prone to stress cracking the paint where the buttress meets the rear arch panel. Personally I prefer the look of the 360

[Monaco92]

I'd be interested to know what people think of the 355 and 360 in terms of driving experience. I've not driven a 355 but obviously love the way they look. However the running costs, reliability and depreciation scrub them off my list at the moment. The 360 may be more reliable but the running costs and depreciation are still mega for what, personally, I felt was an inferior driving experience. OK, the 360 sounds great, moreso from the outside, is a little quicker and has more drama but pound for pound, my pound at least, the NSX trades punches with it and gives away very little, if anythingas an overall package.

I must i agree regarding 360. I drove one last summer. I thought it was more powerfull at lower revs but not as good higher up. Overall it was quicker than the X. The sound inside was not a patch on the X. Although I didn't push it the handling didn't feel as good. Build quality definately not as good. The whole experience was much more 'raw'. Maybe after the honda my expectations are too high. But I bet the F430 is better.

[Ferris Bueller]

I must i agree regarding 360. I drove one last summer. I thought it was more powerfull at lower revs but not as good higher up. Overall it was quicker than the X. The sound inside was not a patch on the X. Although I didn't push it the handling didn't feel as good. Build quality definately not as good. The whole experience was much more 'raw'. Maybe after the honda my expectations are too high. But I bet the F430 is better.

Hopefully I'll get a run, but not a drive, in a 430 at some point this year.

[Monaco92]

I should be driving one when the weather improvesand i'll post my views.

p.s. How's the X ? Did Bryan sort it.:)

[TheQuietOne]

I should be driving one when the weather improvesand i'll post my views.

Jammy git! :D

[Monaco92]

Jammy git! :D

I would be if I get to own one .......and keep the X as well:D