Sell the Type R to me...

[Boomin33]

Is the Type R really worth the premium that has been put on it?

Is there that noticeable a difference in performance, drive, handling?

to, in effect - sacrifice the luxury of Thumping Bass Music, Air-Con on Full blast while driving down the costal highway with the Targa off?

...or is it merely the few numbers, ultra rarity, and emblem to die for; that leads the hardened enthusiast to uncontrollably drool at the thought of one-day ownership?


...

[Papalazarou]

I never really got the type R appeal. A lot more expensive, more compromised and arguably less value for money. I guess it depends on the kind of car you're looking for. I also couldn't care less how rare they are.


Cheers,

James.

[simonprelude]

To me it's just a purer version of what Honda tried to produce without the everyday comforts.

The normal NSX is softened to provide a useable everyday car.

The prices in Japan make creating a type R replica a 'better' option for an overall package.
The standard car is just too comfy and user friendly for some.

[bazza]

Is the Type R really worth the premium that has been put on it?

Is there that noticeable a difference in performance, drive, handling?

to, in effect - sacrifice the luxury of Thumping Bass Music, Air-Con on Full blast while driving down the costal highway with the Targa off?

...or is it merely the few numbers, ultra rarity, and emblem to die for; that leads the hardened enthusiast to uncontrollably drool at the thought of one-day ownership?


...

The 'R came with stereo, air conditioning as options (but this put the weight up). My 'R had all of these and I happily paid the price Ary advertised the car for..same went for Chris when he moved from Ferrari ownership to NSX-R ownership.

Would I pay £55k for a 1992-1995 NSX-R now? Having been lucky enough to own one and drive several I would say yes.. Even after selling mine for £30k ish. I do have my eye on a mint 1995 car with just 17k km's on the clock..:) I can only dream..

Would I pay £90k+ for a 2002-2005 NSX-R? Again, having been lucky to drive several I would say yes..

Sure, for £55k you can get a brand new Cayman S or a nearly new M3, or a 2003 GT3 RS and change for a 2002 M3..

But how many of these do you see cars? (especially if the Ring tickles your fancy 3-4 times a year):laugh:

If you are worried about the price tag then the 'R isn't for you as you simply "don't get it" and are searching for the badge respect rather than the driving pleasure..

On a side note we gets emails almost daily now complaining that our 'R prices are too high.. £50k + for a 1993 car? are you mad? Nuff said..:no:

The new prices were 8,900,000 JPY (NA1-R) and 11,900,00 JPY (NA2-R) - this bares no resemblance of the prices they command in Japan today..

NA1-R - 7,500,000 - 9,500,000 JPY depending on colour, year and mileage. A crashed damage 1993 'R just went through auction with aftermarket bumpers F+R for 3,290,000 JPY.. £16k or thereabouts. That's still £23k over here.. for an accident damaged car.

NA2-R 14,500,000 advertised but I've seen several end in bidding wars and finally being sold for export at over 18,000,000 JPY.. That's over £80k before exporting fees, shipping, landing duty, customs charges and the dreaded VAT @ 17.5%. On top of that, you have the SVA fees, DVLA fees etc.. No change from £115k that's for sure.

We get emails showing us 'R's in stock but finding the right UK customer that is happy to pay the price is another thing.. Either way, these cars are very special to me and I can only dream of getting hold of another one to call my own.:)

[Senninha]

Mmmm, the often discussed topic of NSX Type R (or even Type S) ownership.

Sadly I have not had the opportunity to experience either of these variants from the drivers or passenger seat.

I would echo, but maybe position differently, the comments made above, and ask yourself a more relevant question .... What do you want from your NSX?

We all know and appreciate the road manners of the 'standard' NSX regardless of the variant we own. Would you appreciate the more focussed chassis set-up of the R/S models, maybe not. Or how about the fixed bucket seats ... maybe for that Sunday morning hoon but less so as a daily driver. Theres also the level of 'comfort' offered by the extra sound deadening, thicker carpets, double glazed rear window etc.

I asked myself the above question when looking for my NSX 3yrs ago. At the time I could of bought the NSX-R that both Ary and BAzza have owned. I decided against it as it didn't tick enough boxes for me and my planned usage (but this doesn't stop the drooling over that interior!!).

Although not my original intention, I have ended up following the replica look for my NSX-T as I have replaced or upgraded on the OEM parts with 02+ styling. Maybe not to everyones taste, but it does remain true to the Honda design and deliver the answer I got to my own question ... I like the 'look' and 'power' of the R but want the compliant chassis with the open top convenience that the Targa delivers. And as for the power, well I have the S beaten and we await evidence of the R having any more ponies :)

Finally, I would also comment that without more training for me, or the skills of Bazza, I would be unlikely to exploit the chassis tuning of either variant much beyond what I can acheive today in my NSX.

..... now where have I put those photos of that interior .....

regards, Paul

[forumadmin]

There are "R's" and there are some cars which in some ways are more "R" than "R".

Having driven my car around Switzerland for the past week I can say I miss having aircon (it's really hot here), softer suspension for easier cruising, and quieter suspension (as I have replaced some rubber bushes for alloy). A stereo would be nice too. Comfy seats wouldn't go amiss. The exhuast drowns out the famed engine noise as well.

But that's for here and now. I know when (if) I return to the UK, the NSX will be track only again, and my car as it is now, is how I like it.

If I were to show the car to someone, and give them a ride I would imagine them not being that impressed with the comfort, and crashy ride. Unless they are a car person they won't get it.

[AR]

If like mw you like changing parts. don't buy an R unless you will be buying top notch stuff.

I was happy selling my NSX-R since I wanted to mod my NSX to my AR version!

I do miss the gearbox and seats, but the same seats bothered me on long drives. I am borad shouldered, so take that as something that will not affect the average person.

As Barry wrote, you have to experience it. For me, I am happy with my current car, would not mind the R suspension, but that is all I miss.

Cheers,

Ary

[eclipse1501]

Just to add my 2 euros worth I just think "R" is simply a way of life....like a religion all of its own. When you start to think about "it" then really "its" just not for you. Whether "it" for some people is money, spec or badge I think when Honda engineers pinned the NSX-R badge on their evolutionary NSX then that was good enough for me and if a LHD one existed today then I would bust the bank and have one like a shot.

[nationofzeros]

Speaking as the proud / humble owner of the ex AR / Bazza NA-1 NSX-R, I have to say straight up that never having driven a standard NSX, I cannot make a valid comparison

Nevertheless

(a) It is an absolutely fantastic drivers car and felt absolutely at home on track

(b) You always have that indefinable buzz that you own / drive a car in which the HONDA engineers took an already supremely proficient machine & then threw everything including the kitchen sink at taking it to another plane altogether

(c) 'R' !

[markc]

Is the Type R really worth the premium that has been put on it?
...

Going right back to Rob's original question above, the objective answer has to be NO.

HOWEVER, if the car is a genuine factory built NSX-R, due to the well known and respected performance package it offers and the comparitive rarity of it, it will ALWAYS be more desireable to purist, collector and indeed spectulator alike. So the subjective answer is probably YES.

Many people may well be with James (Papa) and not care less how rare they are BUT I'm afraid that won't stop them being more desireable, collectable to the market and therefore be more expensive to purchase in the future, potentially exponetially so!

This fact is proven by several special variation on base car themes, most noteably by the Porsche RS varients which take a very similar route (more power, less kit, lighter, tighter) to the NSX-R.
Today a 1973 Porsche 911S is worth £40K a 1973 2.7RS is worth £150k, a 1992 964 Carrera is worth £15K a 1992 964RS £40K, a 1995 993RS is worth £25K a 1995 993RS £75K. Other examples of cars of a similar ethos would be the Lotus Cortina, Alfa Romeo GTA, the BMW CSL of the early 1970's, Capri RS3100, BMW M3(E30) and Mercedes 190 Cosworth. Genuine examples of all of theses cars fetch massively more than their "cooking" equivelent. Are they objectively worth it, absolutely not but, and as Bazza eluded to, the market decides.

If Jim Clarke ever raced said Lotus Cortina, double or even treble the price. Provenance is everything... what a shame Ayrton never actually raced an NSX-R in anger :(

No amount of genuine Lotus Cortina parts or new technology superior aftermarket parts, even if they make it faster, lighter or better, will make a Cortina a genuine Lotus Cortina, the same goes for the NSX-R.

As the NSX ages and eventually passes into classic status, it will become the owners occassional rather than everyday car. Many of us are there already :) At this point the fantastic everyday usability of the standard NSX becomes almost pointless and people will start to seek out the NSX-R's and, hopefully for me, the other special variants.

Here are the production numbers for the various "specials" kindly supplied by Detlef (Mr Procar Specials)...
483x NSX-R NA1
152x NSX-R NA2
30x NSX S Zero
248x NSX NA2 Type S (209x 1997-2001; 39x 2002+)
5x NSX-R GT

None of the above stops any NSX being a fabulous car but the rarer varients WILL fetch more money in the future.

Cheers

Mark

[Boomin33]

cool! enjoyable reading.

on a side note, Mark, mate of mine bought a '73 2.7RS last summer for price you mention... says his it's up £50K from that in 12 months and auction specialists predict it to go up considerably, maxing out somewhere around £450K in his lifetime.


I hope your S goes up in value, it should. seemed quite special when I saw it



-

[dan the man]

was gona say E30 M3s..but EVO model. even now i think about buying one as just WONT loose money and what a car.

back to the R.. same era as the DC2 and ek9 stuff..its just a genius era.. amazing cars were made then, expecially Rs. As good as a normal NSX is.. i never enjoyed mine as much as sat in the passenger seat with Barry for hours in his R just smiling. It set the precidents for me as was the first NSX i went in.. when i was in a normal NSX i was looking for the seats, the gearchange, the composure, the edge.... it wasnt the same :(

And i dont care about comfort or seat softness- i just want the maximum control feeling and the car that gives its all and begs to be battered into the limiter and have its tyres shredded as grips exceeded and the car breaks loose.. thats why i love my DC2. an utter attack tool.. and try as i might- i cant break it :) and thats why i love Honda

HIROFUMI- come on in and tell us how your R makes u feel...........!

I can only dream of mastering one

[markc]

Hi Rob, there's even a fair old disparity in 2.7RS prices. A Touring model, M470 in Porschespeak, will make £150K whereas a Lightweight (officially Sport), M471 model will make an extra £50K or more! Either way you friend is a lucky chap :)

Dan, I know what you mean about the E30 M3 EVO but it was really a revision, to keep it competitive in motorsport, to an already specialist model which is why I said all E30 M3's. However, the EVO will still make a little more money than earlier M3 version as will it's arch enemy Merc 190 Cosworth EVO. Much like and NA2 NSX-R will alway make more money than an NA1 NSX-R.
IMO Sierra and Escort RS Cossie's aren't quite the same. They're more models in their own right but there won't be too mnay people scrambling to save Sierra 1.6L's from the scrapheap. Similar story for Delta Integrale's... in fact are there any non Integrale Delta's left in the world ;) Then there stuff like the Lotus Carlton.

It gets tricker among the more modern stuff but I think you're right about Integra Type R's. When standard Integra 1.5's are worth loose change, a Type R will still be collectable and fetch reasonable money. Same goes for Clio Williams's and Focus RS's.
It has to be more than a "badge" special though. I can't see a Civic Type R Jordan being worth any more than a normal CTR for example.
More specialist, and expensive, things like Ferrari 360CS, 430 Scuderia, GT3 RS's, Aston N24, Gallardo Superleggera are even harder to guess future values over the base model but when they're 20+ years old I'd bet that they're all make incrementally more money than the "base" model.

Back to the NSX-R for a moment. I'll bet my hat that the majority of them came fitted with A/C, so there's the biggest single weight saving feature cancelled at a stroke. Does that make a genuine factory NSX-R fitted with A/C worth less than one without A/C? Personally I VERY much doubt it.

Cheers

Mark

[Boomin33]

Either way you friend is a lucky chap :)

Think it's probably the lightweight one to be honest. I'll ask this weekend

He bought the RS and a BMW CSI 5.7 B12 (alpina) from a certain sultan who lives local to us last summer... personally thought, at the time, he paid too much = around £35K for the B12 part of the deal... but then again wasn't it a £100+K car, or something new?
& with only 3,000 miles on the clock on a 2001 car. suddenly it doesn't sound so bad now.

Always, always wanted a 850... bummed never bought one. such an amazing shape from the front.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~alsoft/850%20alpina/b12_57.htm

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o136/boomin33/BMW850AlpinaB12.jpghttp://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o136/boomin33/B12-57.jpg
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o136/boomin33/B12bonnet.jpg

[markc]

Sounds like your friend should be laughing over the 2 car deal he made if the RS has gone up in value by that much :)

I blow hot and cold on the 8 Series, half the time I think they look great and the other half of the time too old fashioned and heavy looking. That 5.7ltr B12 packs a hell of a spec and a lot of kit tho'. The pop-ups (wide and flat) are reminisent of the NSX ones don't you think?

I know it's got a poor reputation as a sports car but I luuuurve the BMW Z8. Relatively compact size, all alloy construction, svelt curvy body and the M5 V8 in the nose. The whole (package) doesn't match the sum of those parts but I can't think of anything else in the same vein (Merc SL, 911 Cab, XK Cab etc) that I'd rather have.

Mark

[TheSebringOne]

Quite a few of us buy Evo mag as I think its a real purists car mag, but in its first 10 years, the standard NSX was their car of the year once, then later on the NA2 Type R was another winner, then in the ultimate Best car of the last 10 years, think the Type R was 6th? Would have been 5th bar a point or two behind a mark 1 996 GT3! Think the winner was a Fezza 550 or 575, then followed by the Zonda? This speaks volume to me considering the other cars in the test! Only going from memory as can't find the said 10th year special edition mag.

[Boomin33]

Sounds like your friend should be laughing over the 2 car deal he made if the RS has gone up in value by that much :)

I know it's got a poor reputation as a sports car but I luuuurve the BMW Z8.
Mark

LOL... same guy bought Ronan Keating's Z8 about 3 or 4 years ago.. when it was sold to make room for the new Alpina Z8 (see top gear). has about 17 cars in the collection! mainly brabus's.

My Wife wanted one and drove the Z8 around the time we got the SC430... but was too far out of the price bracket....

I heard that they have gone up in value quite a bit in the last 3 years... darn.


!!!!Hi-jacked my own thread talking about other cars... think I'll start a thread next week where can post "favourite cars of all time" post pics, and personal comments on them. what you think?

SO MANY CARS... SO LITTLE TIME...

[TheSebringOne]

Whilst buying a Beamer a few years ago, got chatty with the head salesman, said every dealership had to have one Z8 in to sell even if they did'nt want to or realistically sell one quickly. So some got stuck unsold for ages at 80 to 85k ish!!, then after ages they were being sold off quickly for late 50s or early 60s!! Like you say in hindsight the late, low mileage examples are now holding their money and probably will a rare future classic!

[NoelWatson]

Quite a few of us buy Evo mag as I think its real purists car mag, but in its first 10 years, the standard NSX was their car of the year once, then later on the NA2 Type R was another winner, then in the ultimate Best car of the last 10 years, think the Type R was 6th? Would have been 5th bar a point or two behind a mark 1 996 GT3! Think the winner was a Fezza 550 or 575, then followed by the Zonda? volumThis speaks volume to me considering the other cars in the test! Only going from memory as can't find the said 10th year special edition mag.

I have the mag in the garage.

1. 550
2. Zonda
3. GT3 '99
4. GT3 '03
5. NSX Type-R

You can get a 996 GT3 MkII for under 50k.

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/495680.htm

[TheSebringOne]

My memory was'nt too bad then! :D Even better, a point or two from being 4th, 5th is still brill tho! Evo in the garage! Mine is on a shelf in magazine box holder at my folks with all my mags, they're so understanding! :D