Inside an NSX Engine

[Rob_Fenn]

Some pictures of our engine after strip down and crack testing. Amazed by the attention to detail and special bits inside the C32B, consider me impressed! Well done Honda.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/robfenn/IMG00147.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/robfenn/IMG00148.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/robfenn/IMG00153.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/robfenn/IMG00154.jpg

[Kevin]

Which special bits then?

Who is doing the rebuild? I might have a go at cracking open my spare motor and making it a race one.

[Senninha]

Which special bits then?

Looks fairly ordinary to me ....

[Rob_Fenn]

The machining, oil squirters on the pistons and oil catching was things i liked... as well as feeling the weight (or lack of) of the titanium. I don't know much about engines but the builder said it was fantastic engineering so i was suitably proud. It was also interesting seeing some of the crap, such as the pipe that puts burnt gases back into the engine.

DTW Engines are doing the job, 9500rpm and over 400bhp with standard displacement :D

[Lankstarr]

Sounds good Rob, I eagerly await results and dyno test!

What are you currently pushing out and is that a 400bhp estimate NA? The NSX will be a force not to be messed with if you're gaining an extra 100bhp.

If you don;t mind me asking what's the cost of engine out, strip and rebuild then back in and are you having to do further mods to cope with the increase in power?

Thanks,

Luke

[Rob_Fenn]

I'm not sure on current power, Dave Wilde has an engine dyno opposed to a rolling road so not sure how it would compare to the RR meet you guys had last year.

It will stay N/A. To save cost and time, we will be using Toda's throttle body kit and airbox arrangement. Also, if available, their dry sump system. Most of the other bits Toda sell are actually made in the UK, so can be sourced cheaper.

Sadly, as you would guess, getting a lot of power is not cheap and it would probably buy somebody a decent NSX, but once its done i hope to be able to recommend the best bang for buck bits from our build.

[austrian type-r]

My engine builder is also impressed by the NSX engine. He told me that this engine with the correct camshafts, etc will get out about 380-400hp with 3 litre staying NA. The hp per litre ratio is 126,6 with a total of 380hp. Thats a possible thing with the right parts and with proper tuning. good luck and I am realy interessted what the final numbers are.

[Kevin]

It will stay N/A. To save cost and time, we will be using Toda's throttle body kit and airbox arrangement. Also, if available, their dry sump system. Most of the other bits Toda sell are actually made in the UK, so can be sourced cheaper.

I'm sure you said once TODA parts aren't up to much surprised to learn you are using them now.

The more I think about either FI and the spare engine I have, the more I fancy having a NA tuned engine instead. Even though ultimately the power will not be as high, it might be more fun to drive on the track. The big turbo cars have poor throttle reponse, you can see it on the youtube videos.

[Rob_Fenn]

Yeah, i was told that a lot of their throttle body kits are a re-hash of their first one (Toyota 4AGE). At the same time, if the kit formed the basis of the GT300 engine we are hoping it be ok, and ultimately it would be cheaper to play around with Toda parts than build from scratch...

You are right about throttle response, its something i love and wouldn't want to lose. I almost consider forced induction as 'cheating,' probably because Honda haven't used it (yet, anyway).

[Kevin]

Throttle bodies are, in essence all the same. It's the mounting flange from body to inlet manifold that needs to be a specific part for the car. The trumpets on top of the bodies are again standard parts, just select the right length for where you want peak power in the rpm range.

The only difference in bodies, is whether its a butterfly valve, sliding plate or barrel. Plate & barrel bodies when fully open do not have the obstruction of a butterfly at full opening.

There's nothing really to stop me machining off the top of the standard intake system, welding on some flanges and fit some off the shelf bodies to make a system. That would reduce the cost of having to design and machine the specific parts to mount to the engine.

[markc]

You are right about throttle response, its something i love and wouldn't want to lose. I almost consider forced induction as 'cheating,' probably because Honda haven't used it (yet, anyway).

I'm with you there Rob, FI is deffinately cheating. As well as that I particularly dislike the huffing/puffing/hissing sounds they (turbo's anyway) make in place of a proper NA induction bellow :)

W.R.T your pics, the external finish of the block casting looks nice, unusually smooth. The piston skirts are shorter than is usual so the pistons should be fairly light.

Are you changing the rods? I was under the impression that the standard ones aren't up to 9500prm.
Are you also ditching the VTEC system and going to single lobe high lift cams? VTEC isn't much use on track as you're always at high revs anyway.
Last question (for now) what head work are you having done? Bigger valves or just porting etc? If your guys find any secrets in the porting let me know and they can have a practice on mine :)

Cheers

Mark

[Rob_Fenn]

Glad we are in agreement...

The pistons will be Omega and i believe the rods from Arrow. We discussed the VTEC and the builder said he would weigh up the options, as he said he was more of a torque man than peak power. I will await his recommendation, i don't really have an opinion on it...

The head will be undergoing a lot of work, but precisely what it is at this stage i couldn't say, but will update this thread as things get moving!

[Kevin]

Ditch the VTEC. You don't need it or the extra complications it has. A single lobe camshaft or one with all three lobes the same, will allow the centre rockers to be removed helping high rpms, the LMAs, and all the associated spool valves and controls. The car will have to idle at 3000rpm but that's sounds cool.

If I built an engine I would keep the VTEC but then I would want something for occasional road use.

Do you get any money back if it doesn't reach 400bhp? Be interesting to know what you get at 7800-8000 as well as the 9500.

[Rob_Fenn]

There is no guarantees with power, he said himself he hates doing it, but in general discussion he said 400bhp would be "easy." He got over 320bhp from the works Nissan Primera 2.0 BTCC cars so we have faith!

Good mid-range is the key really, any driver can use the torque whilst only the best will get the benefit out of the peak power. We will use Pectel for the ECU as it will allow switchable maps, running lower RPM for longer races. I would hope we are therefore getting around the 400bhp mark well before 9500rpm.

[Kevin]

I would hope we are therefore getting around the 400bhp mark well before 9500rpm.

I would hope so, and is what I was suggesting at. As 400bhp at 9500rpm is only 221lb/ft torque. Which is the same as standard. So to achieve that the builder need only build the engine to raise the rev limit, and keep the torque curve flat of course.

[nsx_vtec]

This is an interesting build.

I remember seeing this car at the ring in summer 2007. (i was the guy in the white eg6)
Gave a few GT3 a hard time on track.

Love to see this once its completed.

Imy :)

[Rob_Fenn]

Thanks Imy, good to hear from you. Hopefully progress will be a lot better than it has been over the next few months!

[Minch]

Wow Rob . . . this is great news! definitely keep us updated on this thread. I've always wanted to rebuild the engine to get more horses. I take it these guys could do a fairly "basic" SOS style rebore project then? Have you got a contact there I can speak to?