Last call for 2002 LBB!

[Papalazarou]

I'm due to trade my NSX in at the end of next week or early the week after, but thought I'd give NSXCB members the opportunity to make me an offer in the meantime as I'd like the car to go to a good home and be well looked after (it's been sat in the garage for the last two weeks getting a coat of wax a day and is gleaming!).
This car is in fantastic condition and has been serviced six monthly since I've owned it.

I'm not going to talk prices on the forum, but I'm open to a deal, so please pm me or give me a call on the number in the advert below:


http://www.pistonheads.com/SALES/869382.htm


All the best,

James.

[Senninha]

Oh to have the room for another one, particularly this one!!

Hope it finds a good home direct from you and not via trade margins!!

Have you gone for the Norfolk pocket rocket?

regards, Paul

[TheSebringOne]

James, hope someone makes you a decent offer for a lovely example before trading it in. :)

[AR]

Lovely car, I hope that you get a good result.

BTW I hope you enjoy the City Rover that is going to replace it. ( just messing with you :) )

Cheers,

AR

[amo]

hi mate good luck with the sale hope you get what ur looking for

by the way iv got the zimmer frame for you that you ordered lol at your age you do need it now lol

thx amo

[Papalazarou]

hi mate good luck with the sale hope you get what ur looking for

by the way iv got the zimmer frame for you that you ordered lol at your age you do need it now lol

thx amo

Thanks for the kind words guys, I'll miss NSX life greatly, but feel it's time to try something different.
As for you Amo!! ;-) I look forward to seeing your tractor at Japfest!!!

Cheers,


James.

[Kevin]

You'll be back.

They always come back.

[markc]

James, Let us know what fills the space in the garage vacated by the NSX.

Assuming it's still something to fill your trackday ambitions let us know the events you plan to attend this year so that we can come along and compare rides :)

Cheers

Mark

[Papalazarou]

James, Let us know what fills the space in the garage vacated by the NSX.

Assuming it's still something to fill your trackday ambitions let us know the events you plan to attend this year so that we can come along and compare rides :)

Cheers

Mark

Sounds great. It is a track focussed car, but also a pretty reasonable road car, so should be interesteing.

Cheers,


James.

[TheSebringOne]

Lotus Exige S2 240 maybe? :think::dunno:

[howellr]

Hello James,

Just before you go off to new exciting vehicle horizons (hopefully you won't be going over the horizon), can you tell me where you got your Tubi stainless steel rear silencer from ?

Rod

[AR]

You can get them from Scuderia Systems, check the Marketplace on NSX Prime too. They are £ 1500.00 new, slightly less secon hand.

Hope that helps,

AR

[Papalazarou]

I've had some interest in my car but am aware the sale was pretty sudden, so I'm going to pospone the trade in for a week or so. I'm also crazy at work so I haven't got time to view the car I'm hopefully buying.
Anyone who may be interested, please give me a call on 07977 142638.


Cheers,


James.

[Papalazarou]

bump.................

[Papalazarou]

Lotus Exige S2 240 maybe? :think::dunno:

I was seriously considering one after a test drive a few weeks ago. It was very quick I loved the sound of the supercharger screaming away! I also thought the build quality was pretty good for a lightweigh construction. However, I'm really after something a bit more substantial.
The lotus just seemed a bit too much of a compromise for me.


Cheers,


James.

[TheSebringOne]

James, something a bit more substantial & its too much of a compromise?

I'm just rattling my small brain! Trying to think of something very quick, well constructed, that virtually track ready & reliable? Maybe a bit more space & practical compared to a Exige? Maybe you can ring Fuzilov or his brother & enquire about the NA2 02+ Type R :D

The only real car that springs to mind (shoot me down guys) is a Mark 1 GT3? :dunno:

[NoelWatson]

James, something a bit more substantial & its too much of a compromise?

I'm just rattling my small brain! Trying to think of something very quick, well constructed, that virtually track ready & reliable? Maybe a bit more space & practical compared to a Exige? Maybe you can ring Fuzilov or his brother & enquire about the NA2 02+ Type R :D

The only real car that springs to mind (shoot me down guys) is a Mark 1 GT3? :dunno:

996 Mk2 GT3

[Papalazarou]

That's what I've been thinking, the mk2 seems the more complete cars, but yet to drive one.

cheers, James

[Silver Surfer]

What's your opinion regarding Nobles?

SS

[markc]

That's what I've been thinking, the mk2 seems the more complete cars, but yet to drive one.

cheers, James

Mk1 is slightly softer riding, more forgiving and feels revvier. Early cars had marginal standard brakes but most have been upgraded.
Mk2 is more powerful, a touch faster and has better standard brakes.

You can't go far wrong either way :)

Mark

[AR]

What's your opinion regarding Nobles?

SS

We spoke about these ones, I don't think James is too keen on them.

As much as I like them you can't compared them with a GT3, when it comes to reliability or lack there off!

Cheers,

AR

[Senninha]

The only real car that springs to mind (shoot me down guys) is a Mark 1 GT3? :dunno:

Wow, how did you come up with this idea ??? His pistonheads advert perhaps :rolleyes:

[Papalazarou]

Here are some more pic's I took today. The local Butlins have built some holiday apartments which give the south of France look....If you squink.
I hadn't driven the car for a few weeks and found myself wondering why I was selling, but I've made the decision now!

[TheQuietOne]

Looking fantastic James - is 'squinking' West Country for squinting? :D

[Papalazarou]

Looking fantastic James - is 'squinking' West Country for squinting? :D

haha

cheers, James

[Papalazarou]

Just thought I'd share yesterday exciting events with everyone;

Got up at 5.30am to travel to the dealer and pick up the GT3. Obviously pretty excited, but a bit apprehensive because I've had NSX's for around 4 years now and owning one has been a pretty big deal.

Anyway, the car had been sat in the garage for the last few weeks getting coat after coat of wax, to the point where the car looks like it's soaking wet!

When I drove out into the darkness with my newly fitted HID's and an empty road I wondered whether this 'other car' was going to be anywhere as good as the car I already have and whether I was making a rash decision. This line of thinking became more accute as I filled up with fuel and watched people staring at the my car whilst ignoring the carrera 4S cabriolet and the Aston Martin pulled up in proximity.

After a couple hours of mind numbing motorway later and I arrived at the dealer, not having seen the car or met the salesman I was a little worried.

Anyway, I met the salesman, who seemed like a nice genuine guy and set eyes on the GT3.
It was awesome and in fantastic condition. I hadn't realised how low they were! The whole car was mint and I'd done my homework so I knew the correct servicing had been done and the car was straight.

Then it hit me, when I had finished inspecting the outside, I ventured in to look at the interior. Fantastic seats, really clean and beutifully presented........but NO A/C!!!!

I know what some of you guys are thinking; these cars are meant for track and don't need A/C. However, this was a comfort model with every conceivable extra and A/C was a non-cost option on that car when new!

You may also be wondering why I did not check this when I phoned up about the car. The simple truth is there is only one other car on AT without A/C and that was a club sport. I just assumed it had it because of the spec.

Driving back, my father (brought for moral support and company) mercilously taking the piss, I didn't feel that disapointed. The NSX as we know is an event even on a boring motorway journey. It returns (OMG I said returns....I'm just about to mention fuel consumption...is it a trick to sell my car to a mature environmentally aware buyer, or am I getting older. Not sure) just under 30MPG. Ok I've said it...I may just have sold my soul to Millhouse.

So, the car's still for sale and I'm open to sensible offers. Give me a call you may be surprised.



Cheers,


James.

[amo]

hay mate nice to see you both yesterday like i said to your dad
take it out for a weekend hire spend 500 or so and then realise its not for you so at least you have your nsx still sitting there mmmmmmmm

thx amo

[NoelWatson]

Just thought I'd share yesterday exciting events with everyone;

Got up at 5.30am to travel to the dealer and pick up the GT3. Obviously pretty excited, but a bit apprehensive because I've had NSX's for around 4 years now and owning one has been a pretty big deal.

Anyway, the car had been sat in the garage for the last few weeks getting coat after coat of wax, to the point where the car looks like it's soaking wet!

When I drove out into the darkness with my newly fitted HID's and an empty road I wondered whether this 'other car' was going to be anywhere as good as the car I already have and whether I was making a rash decision. This line of thinking became more accute as I filled up with fuel and watched people staring at the my car whilst ignoring the carrera 4S cabriolet and the Aston Martin pulled up in proximity.

After a couple hours of mind numbing motorway later and I arrived at the dealer, not having seen the car or met the salesman I was a little worried.

Anyway, I met the salesman, who seemed like a nice genuine guy and set eyes on the GT3.
It was awesome and in fantastic condition. I hadn't realised how low they were! The whole car was mint and I'd done my homework so I knew the correct servicing had been done and the car was straight.

Then it hit me, when I had finished inspecting the outside, I ventured in to look at the interior. Fantastic seats, really clean and beutifully presented........but NO A/C!!!!

I know what some of you guys are thinking; these cars are meant for track and don't need A/C. However, this was a comfort model with every conceivable extra and A/C was a non-cost option on that car when new!

You may also be wondering why I did not check this when I phoned up about the car. The simple truth is there is only one other car on AT without A/C and that was a club sport. I just assumed it had it because of the spec.

Driving back, my father (brought for moral support and company) mercilously taking the piss, I didn't feel that disapointed. The NSX as we know is an event even on a boring motorway journey. It returns (OMG I said returns....I'm just about to mention fuel consumption...is it a trick to sell my car to a mature environmentally aware buyer, or am I getting older. Not sure) just under 30MPG. Ok I've said it...I may just have sold my soul to Millhouse.

So, the car's still for sale and I'm open to sensible offers. Give me a call you may be surprised.



Cheers,


James.

Which version of GT3 did you get?

[Papalazarou]

Which version of GT3 did you get?

I'd didn't. The I one I went to see was a mk2 996. Great looking car. Just very hard to resell without a/c.


cheers, James.

[NoelWatson]

I'd didn't. The I one I went to see was a mk2 996. Great looking car. Just very hard to resell without a/c.


cheers, James.

OK sorry I misread. There is a Mk2 GT2 with climate control (assume same as air con) round the corner from me. Have you looked at this one yet?

http://www.camtune.com/CarSales.aspx?StockID=663

[Ferris Bueller]

Just thought I'd share yesterday exciting events with everyone;

Got up at 5.30am to travel to the dealer and pick up the GT3. Obviously pretty excited, but a bit apprehensive because I've had NSX's for around 4 years now and owning one has been a pretty big deal.

Anyway, the car had been sat in the garage for the last few weeks getting coat after coat of wax, to the point where the car looks like it's soaking wet!

When I drove out into the darkness with my newly fitted HID's and an empty road I wondered whether this 'other car' was going to be anywhere as good as the car I already have and whether I was making a rash decision. This line of thinking became more accute as I filled up with fuel and watched people staring at the my car whilst ignoring the carrera 4S cabriolet and the Aston Martin pulled up in proximity.

After a couple hours of mind numbing motorway later and I arrived at the dealer, not having seen the car or met the salesman I was a little worried.

Anyway, I met the salesman, who seemed like a nice genuine guy and set eyes on the GT3.
It was awesome and in fantastic condition. I hadn't realised how low they were! The whole car was mint and I'd done my homework so I knew the correct servicing had been done and the car was straight.

Then it hit me, when I had finished inspecting the outside, I ventured in to look at the interior. Fantastic seats, really clean and beutifully presented........but NO A/C!!!!

I know what some of you guys are thinking; these cars are meant for track and don't need A/C. However, this was a comfort model with every conceivable extra and A/C was a non-cost option on that car when new!

You may also be wondering why I did not check this when I phoned up about the car. The simple truth is there is only one other car on AT without A/C and that was a club sport. I just assumed it had it because of the spec.

Driving back, my father (brought for moral support and company) mercilously taking the piss, I didn't feel that disapointed. The NSX as we know is an event even on a boring motorway journey. It returns (OMG I said returns....I'm just about to mention fuel consumption...is it a trick to sell my car to a mature environmentally aware buyer, or am I getting older. Not sure) just under 30MPG. Ok I've said it...I may just have sold my soul to Millhouse.

So, the car's still for sale and I'm open to sensible offers. Give me a call you may be surprised.



Cheers,


James.

Interested to see how this pans out James as I'm thinking of the same swap myself. I'm on the same page as you when it comes to A/C - it's essential for an everyday car nowadays and I use it on track days as well.

I'm watching the market at the moment. Sadly it looks like much of the GT3 population was silver. Are you looking at Mk1 or Mk2?

[Papalazarou]

Interested to see how this pans out James as I'm thinking of the same swap myself. I'm on the same page as you when it comes to A/C - it's essential for an everyday car nowadays and I use it on track days as well.

I'm watching the market at the moment. Sadly it looks like much of the GT3 population was silver. Are you looking at Mk1 or Mk2?

I'm looking at a mk2 as I like the styling better, they're a little more powerful and the brakes are better. The colour combos are definately bland though. I was going to look at a grey one but it just seems a bit dull. lbb would be nice.

The other issue is that to get the right car you've almost got to be a private detective. One of the cars I looked at turned out to be a complete loss, was rebuilt but still turned up clean on the HPI register. Some of the cars I called about had big holes in their service history and because they are track orientated cars many have been thrashed to death. They also seem to suffer from diff plate wear which although not too expensive (£900) is still enough to make you think.

It's difficult getting to grips with a type of car I know little about, but I guess the same could be said about the NSX. for me though, the Honda is still an easier prospect to service and look after.

cheers, James

[NSX 2000]

Some of the cars I called about had big holes in their service history and because they are track orientated cars many have been thrashed to death.
cheers, James

Who buys a £70,000 plus car and then doesn't get it serviced!

[forumadmin]

for me though, the Honda is still an easier prospect to service and look after.

cheers, James

Probably becuase NSX owners don't use their cars much.:)

[Papalazarou]

Another thing that ocurred to me whilst driving back on Saturday, was that the NSX is an 'ego neutral sports car'. I think it's a car you can own without experiencing the harsh judgement of others. I'm not trying to talk myself out of changing, it's just an observation from the reactions the car gets from others.


Cheers,

James.

p.s, Paul, you're right, I'm really not sure why you'd buy an expensive track orientated car and not service it properly?

[NoelWatson]

There is a Mk2 GT2 with climate control (assume same as air con) round the corner from me. Have you looked at this one yet?

http://www.camtune.com/CarSales.aspx?StockID=663

Not sure if you read this?

[Papalazarou]

Not sure if you read this?

Hi Noel, I read it but thought you said GT2 which would be way out of my price range. The car for sale at Camtune looks realy nice, but alas it's a few K out of reach really.


Cheers,

James.

[NoelWatson]

Hi Noel, I read it but thought you said GT2 which would be way out of my price range. The car for sale at Camtune looks realy nice, but alas it's a few K out of reach really.


Cheers,

James.

Damn typos!! I think it has been on sale for a while now so there may be room for negotiation. This is another one near me with air con

http://www.cridfords.co.uk/images2/big_996%20GT3%20club%20sport%20seal-black%20side.JPG

[markc]

I'm looking at a mk2 as I like the styling better, they're a little more powerful and the brakes are better. The colour combos are definately bland though. I was going to look at a grey one but it just seems a bit dull. lbb would be nice.

Personally I wouldn't discount a pristine Mk1. The chassis is supposed to be nicer and most have had the brakes upgraded/updated. Stick on a set of MK2 wheels, as many have, and you solve the looks issue. Just the question of 20hp missing.

Colour tends to be a question of fashion, most GT3's seem to be silver as you say but then most >2002 NSX's seem to be LBB ;)


It's difficult getting to grips with a type of car I know little about, but I guess the same could be said about the NSX. for me though, the Honda is still an easier prospect to service and look after.

I can't agree there Papa. There is a HUGE network of Porsche specialists ready to service and upgrade any and all Porsche's. What with the number of high quality tuning organisations offering upgrade parts for Porsches they're in a far superior position to us NSX'ers.


Another thing that ocurred to me whilst driving back on Saturday, was that the NSX is an 'ego neutral sports car'. I think it's a car you can own without experiencing the harsh judgement of others.

I couldn't agree more, when I had the 993 I was always slightly embarassed to admit I drove a Porsche. The majority (obviously not all) of Porsche drivers buy them purely for the badge and behave like people do when that is their motivation for ownership... w*ankers :( Shame, 'cos they're great cars.

Cheers

Mark

[Papalazarou]

Hi Mark,

I guess what I was trying to say about the prospect of running and maintaining a GT3 was that until you've owned something for a while, it really does seem like an unknown quantity.
This in all fairness was the same after two days of owning my first NSX when the PAS stopped working and a few months later when the 02 sensor died.

I agree though that availability of Porsche parts is considerably better than for the NSX.

One point I would make though is that whilst skimming through the service history of various GT3's during the last few weeks, they do seem to suffer with lots of minor (but not inexpensive) problems. Some have been put right under warranty, but many fell outside that. examples would be; switches and minor corrosion of parts necessitating replacement, brake replacement, radiators etc....
Now not to tempt fate, but in my experience NSX's don't seem to encounter the same kind of issues. With our cars the most common issues seem to be 02 sensors, electric window motors, abs sensors etc...


Cheers,


James.

[Ferris Bueller]

I'm looking at a mk2 as I like the styling better, they're a little more powerful and the brakes are better. The colour combos are definately bland though. I was going to look at a grey one but it just seems a bit dull. lbb would be nice.

The other issue is that to get the right car you've almost got to be a private detective. One of the cars I looked at turned out to be a complete loss, was rebuilt but still turned up clean on the HPI register. Some of the cars I called about had big holes in their service history and because they are track orientated cars many have been thrashed to death. They also seem to suffer from diff plate wear which although not too expensive (£900) is still enough to make you think.

It's difficult getting to grips with a type of car I know little about, but I guess the same could be said about the NSX. for me though, the Honda is still an easier prospect to service and look after.

cheers, James

OK, it's a Mk1 but if any of them should be straight then it should be Henry's - has to be a safe bet?

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/655326.htm

[markc]

I guess what I was trying to say about the prospect of running and maintaining a GT3 was that until you've owned something for a while, it really does seem like an unknown quantity.

Very true, I think there's a saying in the Porsche world, "Your first Porsche is always your most expensive" ;)


The majority (obviously not all) of Porsche drivers buy them purely for the badge and behave like people do when that is their motivation for ownership... w*ankers :( Shame, 'cos they're great cars.

I should say this applies equally to most Aston and Ferrari drivers!


One point I would make though is that whilst skimming through the service history of various GT3's during the last few weeks, they do seem to suffer with lots of minor (but not inexpensive) problems. Some have been put right under warranty, but many fell outside that. examples would be; switches and minor corrosion of parts necessitating replacement, brake replacement, radiators etc....


I'm still a member of the Porsche Club GB and receive the substancial monthly club magzine as well as lurk on the PCGB forums. There's certainly plenty of things that go wrong with GT3's BUT as most of these cars get driven hard, harder I'll bet than almost any of our NSX's, they stand up to it remarkably well :) Being relatively heavy cars (like the NSX) they do eat brakes and tyres at track days so they're expensive to run even when stuff just wears out rather than actually breaks.

It sounds like I'm trying to put you off I'm really not, I think they're fantastic cars and if funds permitted I'd have one in a heartbeat :)

Cheers

Mark

[Ferris Bueller]

Papa, YHPM.

[TheSebringOne]

Paul (S), honestly I didn't noticed the PX with GT3 on PH until the other day! Was it there all the time? I would have spotted it. :)

[simonprelude]

OK, it's a Mk1 but if any of them should be straight then it should be Henry's - has to be a safe bet?

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/655326.htm

Wonder what front tyre wear is like...............

http://images.pistonheads.com/aimg/655/655326-1.jpg

[Senninha]

Looks like a well informed specialist to buy from.

FWIW, I prefer the history of the other Mk1 and think this would appeal more to you James given the detailed history, a/fend and ac. It also has the later brake upgrade that Mark referred too.

regards, Paul

[Ferris Bueller]

Wonder what front tyre wear is like...............

http://images.pistonheads.com/aimg/655/655326-1.jpg

No worse than the NSX.

[Ferris Bueller]

Looks like a well informed specialist to buy from.

FWIW, I prefer the history of the other Mk1 and think this would appeal more to you James given the detailed history, a/fend and ac. It also has the later brake upgrade that Mark referred too.

regards, Paul

The Mk1 also benefits from a number of more robust build processes IIRC - It was more of a handmade special than the Mk2, at least in the engine department, though both share the GT1 core.

From what I've read it drives slightly better too. However, it's difficult to weigh that up when the Mk1 costs the same as a Mk2 but is 4-5 years older (there must be a reason for that, other than sentimentality).

The problem is how to get proper test drives of several of each to form your own opinion. The Mk1 I drove had been heavily fettled for the track so was a little too stiff for the road. In general, the 911 nose-bob takes a bit of getting used to.

[markc]

No worse than the NSX.

Many GT3's are fitted with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tyres which are track day specials. When new they have less tread than a road tyre and can wear quickly so its best save them for the track.

Many GT3'ers have 2 sets of wheels/tyres, one for road and one for the track.

Just like the NSX the spare set won't fit in the car though ;)

Mark

[NoelWatson]

The Mk1 also benefits from a number of more robust build processes IIRC - It was more of a handmade special than the Mk2, at least in the engine department, though both share the GT1 core.

From what I've read it drives slightly better too. However, it's difficult to weigh that up when the Mk1 costs the same as a Mk2 but is 4-5 years older (there must be a reason for that, other than sentimentality).

The problem is how to get proper test drives of several of each to form your own opinion. The Mk1 I drove had been heavily fettled for the track so was a little too stiff for the road. In general, the 911 nose-bob takes a bit of getting used to.




However, it's difficult to weigh that up when the Mk1 costs the same as a Mk2 but is 4-5 years older (there must be a reason for that, other than sentimentality).

From what I can gather on PH, it is purely the faxt that one is handmade and one isn't. I consider the MkII far better value



The problem is how to get proper test drives of several of each to form your own opinion.


Pop down to Cridfords

http://www.cridfords.co.uk/images2/big_996%20GT3%20club%20sport%20seal-black%20side.JPG

http://www.cridfords.co.uk/detail.asp?id=477&model=2000/X_911 (996) GT3 Mk 1




In general, the 911 nose-bob takes a bit of getting used to


I would have no problem with this having learnt to drive in a powerful rear engined car

http://www.vea.qc.ca/vea/photosannonces/fiat126.jpg

[Ferris Bueller]

From what I can gather on PH, it is purely the faxt that one is handmade and one isn't. I consider the MkII far better value


There are other differences. I was reading an old Evo last night which contained their Performance car of the decade. Both 996GT3s were in there but the Mk1 was reported to be more exploitable and predictable, mainly due to differences in the front end set-up.



Pop down to Cridfords

http://www.cridfords.co.uk/images2/big_996%20GT3%20club%20sport%20seal-black%20side.JPG

http://www.cridfords.co.uk/detail.asp?id=477&model=2000/X_911 (996) GT3 Mk 1




Thanks. Unfortunately the Mk2 is sold. Probably for the best as I'm not in a position to buy at the moment. I'm just keeping an eye on things.

In the meantime I'm keen to hear of Papa's progress and experiences.

[Papalazarou]

The Cridford car was a great spec, but if I'm going to sign my life away it has to be for the right car and seal grey is downright dull. If it had been darker or graphite I would have made the journey to see it.

Cheers,


James.

[NoelWatson]

There are other differences. I was reading an old Evo last night which contained their Performance car of the decade. Both 996GT3s were in there but the Mk1 was reported to be more exploitable and predictable, mainly due to differences in the front end set-up.


I will go an read the article later this week (can you remind me of issue number please). IIRC they were pretty closely scored at the end. I think EVo have also tested the 997 GT3s against the 996s. It may be the case that the 997 GT3 Mk1 comes down in price when the Mk2 comes on line. Talking of the Mk2, Porsche can't be making a great deal of money on each one with the exchange rate as it is.

[markc]

Good buyers guide (from GT Purely Porsche magazine) available here...

http://www.parr-uk.co.uk/parr-media/996-gt3-buying-guide-compressed.pdf

[Papalazarou]

Thought I'd let you guys know what I thought of the GT3 I drove yesterday. It was a 15 mile test drive, some bumpy roads, a bit of straight and some well surfaced open bends; 2nd and 3rd gear stuff.

The car was an immaculate MK1 with low miles so everything was well sorted.
First of all, and I was warned about this, on start up these cars sound a little rough!

I climbed into the racing bucket seats which are, as far as I can see, non adjustable which means you sit very straight and very upright. This is further exasperated by the upper bolster which pushes your shoulders forward. Now, after 10 minutes of driving this car I was beginning to wish there was some adjustment. for road use I'd be looking around for some Recaros! for track, I'd be looking to modify the mountings on the bucket seats so I wasn't being crucified! I really don't understand why performance function is often so compromised. the NSX-R and type S seats look like they have a sensible tilt? Interestingly the New GT3's have adjustability.

Anyway, what was the car like? Well having never driven a 911 before, I was interested to know whether I'd notice the well documented quirks these cars have.

The first thing I really noticed was the clutch; a nice smooth action but a fair bit stiffer than the NSX, but I guess most are.

next up was the steering; very direct compared to the lazy steering of the NSX. The steering feel was also much lighter, I'd actually made the first turn before I'd consciously realised.

Once on the bumpy roads the car was actually pretty civilized, once I'd remembered to let the car plot its own course rather than continually correcting. The suspension was actually quite compliant.

The trademark nose skip was there, making the front feel a little strange at lower speed but coming alive at higher speed where the car made a lot more sense.

In the first couple of gears the extra 60-70 hp is noticeable. In a straight line you'd have to ring the neck out of an NA2 to stand a chance of keeping up. also because there's a fair bit more torque, it pulls harder at lower revs.

After having 24 hours to process the information, I'd say that the GT3 is easily a harder car to drive than the NSX, but perhaps not surprising when you consider its focus.

It's certainly pretty raw compared to the Honda; There appears to be less sound deadening so the engine sounds course even at mid revs on a light throttle. It's also nowhere near as smooth as the V6.

The sharper steering is an aquired taste but once you got used to it I imagine it would be preferable. the steering on the NSX is more progressive.

The gearbox was good, but not as good as the NSX and although I imagine the brakes were a vast improvement on the Honda, I didn't get them warm enough to really test them.


My conclusion would be;


Plus points: brutal engine, great steering, sound on full throttle, surprisingly compliant for a track biased car.

Minus points: seats (am I getting old?), front end at low speed.

Would I buy one? The MK1 was too raw for me, but ask me when I've driven a MK2 with normal seats.

FFinally, these are just my observations, I'm not an expert and have never driven a 911 before yesterday.

However, If I had to choose between my car and a mk1 GT3 at this moment I'd choose the Honda. with the right brakes and suspension (I hear KW make some very compliant road/track set-ups now)and some comfortable sports seats the NSX may be the better car.

Cheers,

James.

[Hagasan]

The seats are in fact Recaros.....oh and they used them on the Enterprise too!!

The seats should also be adjustable on their side mounts at both the front and rear allowing you the required tilt...??

The Recaro's in my 964 & 993 were....oh and the steering does feel night & day to an NSX but the front end feeling varies massively depending on how much fuel the tank has in it....

[PeteM]

the steering does fell night & day to an NSX but the front end feeling varies massively depending on how much fuel the tank has in it....


Back to the old 911 Mod of having a bag of concrete in the nose then ! :)

[NSXGB]

the front end feeling varies massively depending on how much fuel the tank has in it....

Quote from Prime:

Another interesting item along this line would be where the fuel tank is placed. In 1991 competitive info states that the NSX with a full tank had weight distribution of 42% front, 58% rear, this number will change by .5% when the fuel tank is empty. The Porsche 911 will change by 2.25%.

[BlueNSX]

Thought I'd let you guys know what I thought of the GT3 I drove yesterday. It was a 15 mile test drive, some bumpy roads, a bit of straight and some well surfaced open bends; 2nd and 3rd gear stuff.

The car was an immaculate MK1 with low miles so everything was well sorted.
First of all, and I was warned about this, on start up these cars sound a little rough!

I climbed into the racing bucket seats which are, as far as I can see, non adjustable which means you sit very straight and very upright. This is further exasperated by the upper bolster which pushes your shoulders forward. Now, after 10 minutes of driving this car I was beginning to wish there was some adjustment. for road use I'd be looking around for some Recaros! for track, I'd be looking to modify the mountings on the bucket seats so I wasn't being crucified! I really don't understand why performance function is often so compromised. the NSX-R and type S seats look like they have a sensible tilt? Interestingly the New GT3's have adjustability.

Anyway, what was the car like? Well having never driven a 911 before, I was interested to know whether I'd notice the well documented quirks these cars have.

The first thing I really noticed was the clutch; a nice smooth action but a fair bit stiffer than the NSX, but I guess most are.

next up was the steering; very direct compared to the lazy steering of the NSX. The steering feel was also much lighter, I'd actually made the first turn before I'd consciously realised.

Once on the bumpy roads the car was actually pretty civilized, once I'd remembered to let the car plot its own course rather than continually correcting. The suspension was actually quite compliant.

The trademark nose skip was there, making the front feel a little strange at lower speed but coming alive at higher speed where the car made a lot more sense.

In the first couple of gears the extra 60-70 hp is noticeable. In a straight line you'd have to ring the neck out of an NA2 to stand a chance of keeping up. also because there's a fair bit more torque, it pulls harder at lower revs.

After having 24 hours to process the information, I'd say that the GT3 is easily a harder car to drive than the NSX, but perhaps not surprising when you consider its focus.

It's certainly pretty raw compared to the Honda; There appears to be less sound deadening so the engine sounds course even at mid revs on a light throttle. It's also nowhere near as smooth as the V6.

The sharper steering is an aquired taste but once you got used to it I imagine it would be preferable. the steering on the NSX is more progressive.

The gearbox was good, but not as good as the NSX and although I imagine the brakes were a vast improvement on the Honda, I didn't get them warm enough to really test them.


My conclusion would be;


Plus points: brutal engine, great steering, sound on full throttle, surprisingly compliant for a track biased car.

Minus points: seats (am I getting old?), front end at low speed.

Would I buy one? The MK1 was too raw for me, but ask me when I've driven a MK2 with normal seats.

FFinally, these are just my observations, I'm not an expert and have never driven a 911 before yesterday.

However, If I had to choose between my car and a mk1 GT3 at this moment I'd choose the Honda. with the right brakes and suspension (I hear KW make some very compliant road/track set-ups now)and some comfortable sports seats the NSX may be the better car.

Cheers,

James.

James I quite agree - After driving a 996 MK1 GT3 - The Gearbox for me was the biggest Disappointment as is the Mk2. Brakes are phenomenal, but unlike you I certainly did not like the steering, as it picked up every undulation in the road. I believe the 997 has a better feel to the gearbox however I am yet to road test one. My Preference is the 964 RS or Turbo S, but I would need to fit A/C to the 964 RS and the Turbo S is £100K +
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/807796.htm

Cheers

Blu

[WhyOne?]

Hi James!

Lots of interesting stuff - keep up the reports.

Quite different to a GT2/3 I know, but have you considered at least test driving one of these:

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/873773.html

I hadn't realised how dramatically they had depreciated and whilst not as focused as the GT cars, I wonder what a few more years of evolution have done to the breed?? by all accounts, they are great drivers cars.

Just an idea!

[NoelWatson]

Hi James!

Lots of interesting stuff - keep up the reports.

Quite different to a GT2/3 I know, but have you considered at least test driving one of these:

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/873773.html

I hadn't realised how dramatically they had depreciated and whilst not as focused as the GT cars, I wonder what a few more years of evolution have done to the breed?? by all accounts, they are great drivers cars.

Just an idea!


I drove one and almost fell asleep at the wheel - dull dull dull. Also there may have been a problem with the fuelling on the car I drove as it stuttered at 7000rpm and wouldn't accelerate further - surely all sports cars rev to 8000+rpm?

As an aside, I drove a Cayman S with the doppelganger gearbox yesterday.

[Ferris Bueller]

I will go an read the article later this week (can you remind me of issue number please). IIRC they were pretty closely scored at the end. I think EVo have also tested the 997 GT3s against the 996s. It may be the case that the 997 GT3 Mk1 comes down in price when the Mk2 comes on line. Talking of the Mk2, Porsche can't be making a great deal of money on each one with the exchange rate as it is.

Issue 63, Jan 2004.

My friend has just bought a Mk2 - looking forward to a ride in that. Just need to remember what the Mk1 was like ;)

[Papalazarou]

Hi James!

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/873773.html

I hadn't realised how dramatically they had depreciated and whilst not as focused as the GT cars, I wonder what a few more years of evolution have done to the breed?? by all accounts, they are great drivers cars.

Just an idea!


I know, the bottom's really dropped out of the standard 911 market. I like the look of the 997 but it doesn't feel special enough. I think the reason for the depreciation was that Porsche has built so many of them.

This brings me neatly on to a bitching opportunity; please bare with me.....there's a point in here somewhere......

When I was younger I had no understaning of better or worse, asthetically speaking.
If someone told me 'this is better' I'd probably believe them. When I bought a car, I didn't care about build quality, image or reliability, all I cared about was how to afford it and that I wanted it.

Now, older and wiser (cough...) every time I consider buying something, I've got to browse the forums, talk to the veterans, get the test drive, consider build, history, originality and last but not least, the big D!

Why oh why has my life become so complicated? Why has my freedom to buy become so enslaved by a contrived balance of buying preferences?

No more can I close the eyes and plunge my finger into the ever thinning pages of the autotrader, no more can I buy a Clio V6 because I love the look of it! Why? Because it's a ****ing Renault!!!!

You, I and every other bastard on every other forum has made the rod for our collective backs!

I have snuck off to other car sites to asked the informed opinions of potential 'car friends' and although I got off on the betrayal, it was ultimately unfulfilling and made me feel guilty later. Ok stop.

For six long painful weeks I've been searching for a car that didn't really do it for me and now I have doubts whether to sell, people starting phoning me up!

It's like one of the teen films (no not the ones with leather clad dwarves!) when at the end of the film, the guy realises that his 'quirky' unconventional best friend has been the one for him after all. (the friend is obviously a girl and there are still no dwarves).

I hope this has gone some way to answering the original inferred question "what about a 997 Carrera 2?"


Cheers,

James.

[markc]

Nice write up James.


I climbed into the racing bucket seats which are, as far as I can see, non adjustable which means you sit very straight and very upright. This is further exasperated by the upper bolster which pushes your shoulders forward. Now, after 10 minutes of driving this car I was beginning to wish there was some adjustment. for road use I'd be looking around for some Recaros! for track, I'd be looking to modify the mountings on the bucket seats so I wasn't being crucified! I really don't understand why performance function is often so compromised. the NSX-R and type S seats look like they have a sensible tilt? Interestingly the New GT3's have adjustability.

Hmm... no they don't really. The NSX-R/Type S make you sit in a simlar upright position and also round your shoulders a bit. They don't have any optional mounting holes either to adjust their angle. This is the prefered "racing driver" position allowing bent arms and therefore more leverage. You get used to it even for road driving but it's not the most naturally comfortable position. It is great on the track :)


The Recaro's in my 964 & 993 were....oh and the steering does feel night & day to an NSX but the front end feeling varies massively depending on how much fuel the tank has in it....

LHD drive versions of the GT3 get the option of the a larger fuel tank as well.

Not sure about the modern porkers but 964/993 (RS or otherwise) were supposedly superior cars in LHD trim as the weight distribution (left/right) is better with the driver weight offsetting the weight of the oil tank.


James I quite agree - After driving a 996 MK1 GT3 - The Gearbox for me was the biggest Disappointment as is the Mk2. Brakes are phenomenal, but unlike you I certainly did not like the steering, as it picked up every undulation in the road. I believe the 997 has a better feel to the gearbox however I am yet to road test one. My Preference is the 964 RS or Turbo S, but I would need to fit A/C to the 964 RS and the Turbo S is £100K +
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/807796.htm

Cheers

Blu

I was lucky enough to drive the latest GT2 (520hp) on the road and at Millbrook. VERY firm ride, very heavy clutch and chunky, bordering on stiff gearchange. The steering was very nice and the brakes phenomenal, I was encouraged to mash the brakes a 120mph on a very wet 1 mile straight and it pulled up dead straight. Unbelieveably FAST though :)

Mark, you've picked extremes either side of the GT3 with those two. The 964RS is very hard and raw and quite a lot slower in a straight line whereas the Turbo S (993?) is faster in a straight line but is 4wd and softer. I'd still go for a GT3 as my perfect Porsche.

Cheers

Mark

[WhyOne?]

I hope this has gone some way to answering the original inferred question "what about a 997 Carrera 2?"



In ways I couldn't have began to imagine James!!!!

And, somewhat disturbingly, I understand perfectly where you are coming from!!!!

[TheQuietOne]

James, I think you are erring in the right direction after our chat earlier:D. If I were spending another 30%+ on top of the NSX I'd want to be 100% happy I was getting something all round better!

I'm not convinced once you have uncovered the excellence of the NSX you can ever feel totally happy replacing it if you aren't a brand snob. There will always be a pay off whether it be lack of build quality, depreciation, looking like a **** driving it etc etc...;)

Bet you'll call me and tell me you've dropped a deposit on a GT3 tomorrow now :laugh:

[BlueNSX]

I was lucky enough to drive the latest GT2 (520hp) on the road and at Millbrook. VERY firm ride, very heavy clutch and chunky, bordering on stiff gearchange. The steering was very nice and the brakes phenomenal, I was encouraged to mash the brakes a 120mph on a very wet 1 mile straight and it pulled up dead straight. Unbelieveably FAST though :)

Supposed to be awesome - but not as good as a Scud

Mark, you've picked extremes either side of the GT3 with those two. The 964RS is very hard and raw and quite a lot slower in a straight line whereas the Turbo S (993?) is faster in a straight line but is 4wd and softer. I'd still go for a GT3 as my perfect Porsche.

964 Turbo S - Very special basically a RS with a worked Turbo Engine 380 BHP approx :D 5 in the country.

Cheers

Mark[/quote]

[AR]

This is the prefered "racing driver" position allowing bent arms and therefore more leverage. You get used to it even for road driving but it's not the most naturally comfortable position. It is great on the track :)

Cheers

Mark

Only if your driver is 1.70 cm and 8 stones maybe. Anyone larger than medium will find them seats a pain in the neck!

There is a reason for the Pole Positions!

Cheers,

Ary

[markc]

Supposed to be awesome - but not as good as a Scud

Depends who you ask and where you're allegience lays... I've never driven a Scuderia (I know they're awsome) but I just couldn't be seen to own one so I'd go with the Porker. I know you're a Fezza man Mark :)


964 Turbo S - Very special basically a RS with a worked Turbo Engine 380 BHP approx :D 5 in the country.[/QUOTE]

Ahh yes, I know the one. The more standard 964/5 3.6 Turbo (360hp but some had the 380hp factory upgrade), last of the RWD turbo Porsches is one of my favs but they're £60K+ now.

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/667428.htm
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/907921.htm

Like the 964 it's quite an old car now and frankly feels it compared to a GT3. Still special though.


Only if your driver is 1.70 cm and 8 stones maybe. Anyone larger than medium will find them seats a pain in the neck!

1.73cm and 12 stones fits very nicely :)

I've seen some fairly large slices wedgeing themselves into GT3's or RS's so equipped and surviving for a few hours. The rake angle Porsche (and Honda) set them at puts you into an attack mode which feels just right on track.

Not great for 6hr+ days end on end but it can be done ;)

Cheers

Mark

[NoelWatson]

Issue 63, Jan 2004.

My friend has just bought a Mk2 - looking forward to a ride in that. Just need to remember what the Mk1 was like ;)

Thanks. While I was ferreting away in the garage I found NSX-R and 997GT3 in Issue 100.

Maybe I am imagining things, but I'm sure EVO did a test to find the greatest Porsche of all time...

[markc]

As an aside, I drove a Cayman S with the doppelganger gearbox yesterday.

How do you rate the new Caymen S then Noel? 320hp, 1350kg and proper slippy diff (optional) is a good recipe, what's the reality?

Mark

[NoelWatson]

How do you rate the new Caymen S then Noel? 320hp, 1350kg and proper slippy diff (optional) is a good recipe, what's the reality?

Mark

Mark,

First the background:

Mrs won't drive my car for a number of reasons, and I had heard the new Cayman was a big improvement on the old (which I drove before buying the NSX) - in particular the engine noise was supposed to be much louder.

Saturday morning:

Popped into Chiswick to enquire about tyres and the upcoming service. Had a chat about the cancelled NSX with the Japanese chap there - he reckons it may be resurrected at some point in the future as his contacts in Japan say it was almost finished

As Porsche was just up the road decided to go and see what the new Cayman was like. Unfortunately, the only demo that had was one fitted with PDK. Booked test drive

Saturday afternoon:

Returned with other half to o for a spin. Traffic was quite heavy so I couldn't give it too much welly around the bends.

First impressions:

Where is the noise they had promised me - still sounds very weedy compared to the NSX

Seating position: is quite high - don't feel as low slung as NSX (even though interior is probably better - I don't notice these things)

Gearbox: Changes up very very early to maximise economy. Won't go into 7th even though I asked it to (was testing at 30mph to see if it was fully manual). Gearchanges were seamless, and the creep was almost like driving a proper auto. However, I would much rather have a manual.

Throttle response: Probably as good as the NSX but will reserve judgement until I drive the manual

NOTE: For some reason, if you go to the Porsche site, you can't spec the LSD with a manual gearbox - I guess this will change at some point.

So as we went westbound on the M4 and hit the derestricted sign I gave it full throttle. The gearbox changes down very quickly and the power builds strongly before the gearbox shifts up near the redline. But where is the noise? I couldn't tell if it was any quicker than the NSX - the NSX definitely sounds faster!!

We came back round the roundabout, and I was at the front of the queue at the lights. The car didn't have the sports chrono plus with launch control, but I was still able to nail it from the lights to see the gearbox in action. Again, very impressive, but if i want an auto I will buy an E63 AMG.

So, I hope to go out next Saturday in a manual when the roads are quieter and I will be able to throw it around a bit more.

Non driving:

Porsche man reckons they still won't discount, and an acceptable spec would bump the car up to just north of 50k. I reckon 997GT3s will be approaching this level in a year or so - I need to have a spin in one of those, but for the time being, I can't see me selling the Honda for a while.

[Papalazarou]

I had considered the Caymen, but the depreciation fairy reminded me that a 50K car will be worth 25 in a couple of years time, perhaps three.

I'm a supplier to my local porsche dealer and the other week I made the mistake of walking through the showroom. The reason I have avoided it for the last couple of years is because everything's so shiny and accessible and I find myself pining after a new car.

Noel, if you're interested in a new Caymen I'd take a look at the outgoing special edition S sport model. They come with all the goodies and look great. I had to fight pretty hard not to buy one!


Cheers,


James.

[Papalazarou]

Ok, so now I've apologised to three potential buyers for advertising a car that I seem not to be able to sell. What do we think is a good cheap track car;


Must be RWD
Must be quick
Must be cheap to run


budget up to 7K.



Cheers,


James.

[NoelWatson]

Noel, if you're interested in a new Caymen I'd take a look at the outgoing special edition S sport model. They come with all the goodies and look great. I had to fight pretty hard not to buy one!


I think I'm going to keep the NSX and embezzle some funds from the house account and go halfs on an R400.

[Papalazarou]

I think I'm going to keep the NSX and embezzle some funds from the house account and go halfs on an R400.

Sounds good. I was thinking more; E36 M3 or a 2001 S2000.


Cheers,

James.

[simonprelude]

S2000................... infact have mine ;)

[Papalazarou]

S2000................... infact have mine ;)

one careful owner....never been sideways;-)

just had a quick look at the DC2/5's; there's a red DC5 on pistonheads with a supercharger for £13K with probably 10k's worth of extras on it.

Cheers,


James.

[SILVER BULLET]

Ok, so now I've apologised to three potential buyers for advertising a car that I seem not to be able to sell. What do we think is a good cheap track car;


Must be RWD
Must be quick
Must be cheap to run


budget up to 7K.



Cheers,


James.

Hi James,
How about one of the following,

RX7
TVR Chimaera
Z3
Elise
Mitsubishi Gallant VR4
Supra
Caterham
Westfield
Fisher fury
MK
Holden SS Commodore

The clock is ticking:laugh:
Cheers,
Ian

[forumadmin]

RWD surely counts out the DC2/5?

Elise
VX220
Caterham/Westfields.

Light, cheap to run, simple. You want cheap track day fun it has to be a lightweight car.

[markc]

Bottled it then James ;)


Light, cheap to run, simple. You want cheap track day fun it has to be a lightweight car.

Kevin hits the nail on the head.

An E36 M3 or even an S2000 will eat tyres and brakes on track and cost you a fortune. A Caterham (or similar) will be soo much cheaper to run it'd probably pay for a couple of trackdays per year with the money you save on brakes alone.

However I'd still be tempted to scratch the GT3 itch if I we're you :)

Cheers

Mark

[Ewan]

IMHO, if you're after a track car, the S2000 won't really fit the bill - I don't think its straight line acceleration will be good enough (having owned 2 myself...)

Trouble is, you won't get a tasty Caterham for less than £10k - add another £12k to your budget and things start getting interesting... (http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/CATERHAM/Ne-2-4-5-6-7-8-27-44-49-53-61-64-67-103-133-146-236,N-240-4294962808/search.action?showMoreOptions=&formSearchParams=Ne%3D2%2B4%2B5%2B6%2B7%2B8%2B27%2 B44%2B49%2B53%2B61%2B64%2B67%2B103%2B133%2B146%2B2 36%26N%3D240%2B4294962808&make=CATERHAM&model=&min_pr=&max_pr=&referrer=quick&postcode=rg7+4aj&radius=1501&e_min_pr=Ne%3D2%2B4%2B5%2B6%2B7%2B8%2B27%2B44%2B49 %2B53%2B61%2B64%2B67%2B103%2B133%2B146%2B236%26N%3 D240%2B4294962808%2B15&e_max_pr=&ukcarsearch_full.x=28&ukcarsearch_full.y=6)

You could probably buy an early leggy S2000 and supercharge it for a total of £9k... that could be interesting...

[Papalazarou]

RWD surely counts out the DC2/5?

Elise
VX220
Caterham/Westfields.

Light, cheap to run, simple. You want cheap track day fun it has to be a lightweight car.

Yes obviously the teg is fwd, just sounded fun.

The elise for that money will be k series and I don't fancy that.
With regard to bottling it, then probably. Just didn't feel like I was moving forward. Felt like I was losing more than I'd was gaining with the Porsche.

Cheers James .

[AR]

Get and MX5 plenty of support and bits and cheap to run, there is always the 924.

In your shoes, a DC2 will fit the bill nicely, and still a Honda.

With the spare money get yourself an NSX-R engine cover and reservoir cover. Your NSX will be finished and look superb.

Cheers,

AR

[NSXGB]

How about one of these: http://www.pistonheads.com/SALES/854100.htm

...comes Zymol'd already too...

[forumadmin]

I could do you a set of big brakes for the NSX for a lot less than 7k, pick some suspension (maybe you'd want it, maybe not, maybe just some anti-roll bars), and you be set for doing a few track days a year.

[Papalazarou]

I'm starting a new thread about track day cars as this one's gone in several directions!!

In reply to the last few posts though;

Thanks Kevin, but I really want to keep my car off track and I can't afford to buy yours!
Second, NSXGB; Yes the 968 is an awesome car and would be a good choice to track. It seems like a good club sport car is still pretty expensive though.
Ary, the MX5 is also a great car but a little lacking in power.
Ewan, I know the S2000 is a little underpowered comapared to other stuff, but I'm more concerned with handling.


And finally, look at this badboy:

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/843056.htm




Cheers,


James.

[NSXGB]

Ary, the MX5 is also a great car but a little lacking in power.


....supercharger....

[Senninha]

I'm starting a new thread about track day cars as this one's gone in several directions!!

In reply to the last few posts though;

Ary, the MX5 is also a great car but a little lacking in power.

Cheers,


James.
James,

You need to talk to Mo about his track MX5 .. turbo I think and shows a clean set of tail lights to most things

regards, Paul

[Papalazarou]

Just thought I'd show everyone a picture of my new GT3. It's a little different as it costs a few grand less and comes with an S2000;-) Now if I can only prise off that sodding number plate cover!



Cheers,



James.

P.s, LBB and Monte Carlo Blue couldn't be more dirfferent.

[AR]

Just thought I'd show everyone a picture of my new GT3. It's a little different as it costs a few grand less and comes with an S2000;-) Now if I can only prise off that sodding number plate cover!



Cheers,



James.

P.s, LBB and Monte Carlo Blue couldn't be more dirfferent.


Great looking beastie mate.

Have fun,

Ary

[WhyOne?]

Just thought I'd show everyone a picture of my new GT3. It's a little different as it costs a few grand less and comes with an S2000;-) Now if I can only prise off that sodding number plate cover!



Cheers,



James.

P.s, LBB and Monte Carlo Blue couldn't be more dirfferent.


Good move James - I loved my S2000 & will be interested to hear how you get along with yours.

As for the plate holder - if you dont want to take the bumper off, it is just a case of pulling, and pulling & pulling & the 2 bolts which hold it on will 'pop' through the retaining holes in the bumper without damage. (All of this is apparently true, but I have never done it myself so dont blame me if a big lump of bumper comes away!!!!!)

[Papalazarou]

Good move James - I loved my S2000 & will be interested to hear how you get along with yours.

As for the plate holder - if you dont want to take the bumper off, it is just a case of pulling, and pulling & pulling & the 2 bolts which hold it on will 'pop' through the retaining holes in the bumper without damage. (All of this is apparently true, but I have never done it myself so dont blame me if a big lump of bumper comes away!!!!!)

I've only driven it twice so far. once bringing it back in the pouring rain, then again after I'd spent two days cleaning it. I took the top of the air-box on Sunday and was more than impressed with the sound. For me induction definately beats exhaust!

My observations so far would be; great dynamics; I like the dimensions and the way that everything is to hand, the gearchange is great, the LCD dash is awesome and it's pretty intuitive to drive. However, it showed me pretty early that the NSX has allowed me to get away with some diabolical liberties! In fact, over the last few months I've been amazed at how good it really is.

Hopefully I'll have some more comments soon.


Cheers,


James.

[Senninha]

............. However, it showed me pretty early that the NSX has allowed me to get away with some diabolical liberties! .........

Be respectful and careful James, take your time with the S2k, it deserves your respect and will bite, hard, if you take liberties too early!

If ever you've thought about driver training, someone like Don Palmer, this is the car to take and learn with in safe surroundings.

Not knocking your skills or common sense, just dont want to see you backing it through a hedge and taking a knock on yourself.

Regards, Paul

[Ewan]

James - anecdotal evidence is that the "airbox mod" in the S2000 saps the power a little, especially in hot weather - so though it sounds nice, it's not track-friendly.

If you like that lovely induction noise, I'd definitely get a K&N reusable filter - http://www.knfilters.com/news/news.aspx?ID=1694 - should be about £50 IIRC. I had one in both of my S2000s and considered them money well spent. You might even get a used one (easuly cleaned up) on s2ki.com.

You might want to play with various Cold Air Intake mods - I put a Muz intake snorkel/scoop(http://www.prestigeautoaccessories.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=132&osCsid=4e0ba790365b65595102671bced5ae1a) onto my 2004 S2000 ... and it seemed to deepen the sound a bit, and made the car feel a bit more spritely. The S2000's air intake is pretty much directly above the radiator - fitting a snorkel can mean up to 10 deg C difference in intake temps (so it is said), and there's a slight ram air effect too.

If I had enough garage space and enough money, I think I'd have an S2000 again, too :)

Ewan

[WhyOne?]

I took the top of the air-box on Sunday and was more than impressed with the sound. For me induction definately beats exhaust!


It goes sound great with the lid of the airbox, but you will suffer loss of power due to ingestion of hot air from the engine compartment.

I fitted a strange looking device to give me the best of both worlds - see picture below.

This (PRM) kit doesn't really make any power (though I also cut out the faux vents in the front spoiler to let a bit more cool air through to the mouth of the intake) but it doen't loose any either, it sounds tremendous & doesn't have the hydrolock potential of many of the other 'snorkel' type intakes on the market.

All a bit childish, but it kept me happy!!!!

Your right about the gearchange - I have never driven a car with a nicer, shorter, more positive throw.

As Paul rightly says, take care, especially in the wet, until you know the car. It is not as benign as the NSX.

ALso keep an eye on your tyre pressures - particularly the rears, the car is ridiculously sensitive to even a couple of lb's difference across the axle.

[NoelWatson]

Mark,

First the background:

Mrs won't drive my car for a number of reasons, and I had heard the new Cayman was a big improvement on the old (which I drove before buying the NSX) - in particular the engine noise was supposed to be much louder.

Saturday morning:

Popped into Chiswick to enquire about tyres and the upcoming service. Had a chat about the cancelled NSX with the Japanese chap there - he reckons it may be resurrected at some point in the future as his contacts in Japan say it was almost finished

As Porsche was just up the road decided to go and see what the new Cayman was like. Unfortunately, the only demo that had was one fitted with PDK. Booked test drive

Saturday afternoon:

Returned with other half to o for a spin. Traffic was quite heavy so I couldn't give it too much welly around the bends.

First impressions:

Where is the noise they had promised me - still sounds very weedy compared to the NSX

Seating position: is quite high - don't feel as low slung as NSX (even though interior is probably better - I don't notice these things)

Gearbox: Changes up very very early to maximise economy. Won't go into 7th even though I asked it to (was testing at 30mph to see if it was fully manual). Gearchanges were seamless, and the creep was almost like driving a proper auto. However, I would much rather have a manual.

Throttle response: Probably as good as the NSX but will reserve judgement until I drive the manual

NOTE: For some reason, if you go to the Porsche site, you can't spec the LSD with a manual gearbox - I guess this will change at some point.

So as we went westbound on the M4 and hit the derestricted sign I gave it full throttle. The gearbox changes down very quickly and the power builds strongly before the gearbox shifts up near the redline. But where is the noise? I couldn't tell if it was any quicker than the NSX - the NSX definitely sounds faster!!

We came back round the roundabout, and I was at the front of the queue at the lights. The car didn't have the sports chrono plus with launch control, but I was still able to nail it from the lights to see the gearbox in action. Again, very impressive, but if i want an auto I will buy an E63 AMG.

So, I hope to go out next Saturday in a manual when the roads are quieter and I will be able to throw it around a bit more.

Non driving:

Porsche man reckons they still won't discount, and an acceptable spec would bump the car up to just north of 50k. I reckon 997GT3s will be approaching this level in a year or so - I need to have a spin in one of those, but for the time being, I can't see me selling the Honda for a while.


Chiswick Porsche were unable to supply me with a manual Cayman to test at their showroom, but this wasn't necessarily a bad thing, as I got invited to Porsche Silverstone to have a go round their circuit.

http://www.porsche.com/all/media/pdf/PCGB_PorscheDrivingExperience_2009.pdf

The drive up their was fantastic - lots of roundabouts on the dual carriageway, and a Transit (it must've been one of the F1 specials!!) and I were having a bit of fun - I flew past coming off the roundabouts and he eventually caught and passed me on the straight - only to be repeated at the next roundabout - great fun. I got there expecting to get straight in the car but had to wait for a couple of hours. Eventually got in the car and the driver showed me what options were fitted. It had the memory seats and 19" wheels, and I think the LSD - more on that later.

So, after he took me round for a few laps it was my turn. I was probably driving the slowest out of all the people on the track, as am always worried about pushing too hard and looking like a tool. First impressions - steering a lot more direct than the NSX - very impressive brakes, but maybe not as quick as the PDK I drove - probably due to the fact it only had 800 miles.

We next moved onto the slope that had a very low friction coefficient. I was surprised to discover that the car could still spin despite the ESP (or whatever Porsche call it) being on. This may be because we were on a very slippery slope, or it may be because the ESP doesn't kick in as early as on other cars and therefore cannot catch everything. For example - in the recent snow I couldn't spin the BMW on sheet ice despite my best efforts.

Next was the kick plate, where you drive onto a flat slippery surface and just before going onto the surface the rear wheels were pushed either left or right by a kick plate. We did this at steadily increasing speeds, and I found that the ESP didn't seem to make a massive difference over whether I span or not. My final test on the kick plate was to hold a slide for the length of the slippery surface - I found this quite easy.

We then went back on the fast circuit and I did a few more laps. I enjoyed being a passenger, and wanted to find out if the car had an LSD, so asked the driver to see if he could tell. What followed next made me truly nauseous. We went round the track in full attack mode (brakes were incredible), went on the skidpad, and the kick plate again, and we finished on the track - we both came to the conclusion that it had the LSD.

So, would I buy one? Probably not, as I don't think it offers that much more than the NSX, but I've asked to go back (I will pay) when the Cayman CS and new GT3 come out - these may be harder to refuse!!

[TheSebringOne]

James, I'm glad you are happy with your new GT3 ish!