HELP! What have I done to my baby?

[mart155]

As it was such a nice day, I thought I would just go out and blow away the cobwebs. After a thorough warm up I took her up to the red line in third gear and all of a sudden I lost power and there was a strange noise rom the engine.
The engine is now running very rough, there is a hint of blackish smoke from the exhaust which also smells very rich.

The only way I can describe the noise it is making when you try and rev it is its a bit like the induction growl you get when you put your foot down hard only you don't have to put your foot down very hard now to get it. There is no power at all, some times the revs just die.

What can it be, has anyone got any ideas.

[Dave J]

Possible a hose split or popped off? I've had similar problems with Skylines popping off pipes and running really badly afterwards. I know it's a different type of engine but well worth a look. Also try disconnecting the air flow meter to see if that worsens, if it stays the same then that could also be the problem.
Dave.

[kowalski]

i dont think you should try anything other than getting it to your nearest dealer on the back of a flatbed or RAC.

It doesnt sound like a minor problem and best to err on the safe side as you dont want to make the problem worse.

I had the water pump seize on mine about 5 years ago, total cost of engine rebuild at Honda was 10k! luckily i got 5k back as a goodwill gesture!

It might not be a big problem, but not worth the risk in my opinion

leigh

[NSXGB]

Get hold of a compression tester, does not sound good. Fingers crossed it's not what I'm thinking.

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

... and all of a sudden I lost power and there was a strange noise rom the engine.
The engine is now running very rough, there is a hint of blackish smoke from the exhaust which also smells very rich. .......There is no power at all, some times the revs just die. ...........

Hi, mart155.
Without having access to your car, I could be wrong so please take this as my personal advice.

Let's start with simple thing.
For engine to run smoothly, you'll need good compression, spark and fuel.

Sounded like you managed to warm up the engine without any issues and even managed to get to the rev limit.
After experiencing the issue, you are now saying that your engine is not smooth (even at idle??) and you can see black smoke.

If you are burning the oil or water, quite often you'll see white smoke than black one. If it is black, you are more likely to be having problem with ignition, fuel mixture or the timing.

It's not worth trying to start the engine if you are not sure.

I don't know your mechanical skill but if you have done this in the past, please check the spark plugs and Ignition coils first.

Then, you can move onto the fuel pressure, O2 sensors, the timing (not the spark timing), the actual fuel and so on.

Regards,
Kaz

[goldnsx]

It's impossible to say from a description. Sorry to say but it doesn't sound good. If you can't diagnose it yourself get it to the dealer before we start our wild speculations in the thread and keep us updated. Not to fear you but from your description it sounds £££. In the best case you have a blocked A/C compressor.
I hope you find a good solution to the problem.

[AR]

Perhaps the timing belt jumped a tooth or two?

[markdas]

If your engine was in good condition before and well maintained chances are its not a catostrophic failure......agree with starting with the simple stuff and hoses also a good suggestion, air leaks into the induction system can certainly cause black smoke.....

Getting it to specialist sounds the preferable route...

Keep us updated please on the outcome, good luck

[mart155]

Thanks for the responses guys. Decided to let the experts have a look. The RAC have just collected and she is on her way to Norton Honda at Letchworth.

Will let you know the outcome.

[amo]

good luck mate hope its not too much
may be a bad spark plug

thx amo

[TheSebringOne]

I hope its not too serious Martin.

[mart155]

Well, Norton Honda phoned me this evening with the verdict of their investigation. Unfortunately it wasn't anything as simple as a pipe coming off somwhere.
I had suspected that it was a timing issue and AR was bang on when he suggested the timing belt might have sliped.

According to Brian, this was caused by the dreaded Crank Pulley failure which at 8000 rpm threw debris everywhere breaking the cambelt cover and allowing some of the debris inside. This subsequently caused damage to the cambelt and somehow caused it to jump a couple of teeth out of position.

The worst part is that they cant tell me for sure if there is any further damage until they have replace all the bits to see how she runs.

So for now, its a new cambelt, new cover, new crankshaft pulley and a new fanbelt.

I am currently keeping my fingers crossed and hoping that there isnt any further damage.

[simonprelude]

Gutted for you :(
Hope it's as simple as that and she's up and running again in no time.

[markdas]

Is the crank pulley failure a common fault then? I can't remember seeing it in the common fault thread??? When should it be replaced if it is an issue? Doe is have a harmonic damper or something built in that fails?

Thanks

Mark

[goldnsx]

I'm very sorry to hear. :shocked: A friend of mine had this not long after his TB job on a low mileage car but with the difference that he was very, very lucky.

As for a prognosis your mechanics can use a microcamera to see if the valves hit the piston in one of the cylinders. This saves a lot of hours!

In general:
It's not a common problem but if it hits you them it's a big-£££ problem. It can happen on any other car/make. If you like your engine get one of these: http://www.honda-nsx.ch/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=24 Dave from the US had this brilliant but simple invention.

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Sorry to hear the news and I hope it was just one or two teeth jump and not hitting the valve...
Finger crossed...

Is the crank pulley failure a common fault then? I can't remember seeing it in the common fault thread??? When should it be replaced if it is an issue? Doe is have a harmonic damper or something built in that fails?

Thanks

Mark
Not sure how to define the wording 'common' but it is a quite well known failure. There is a rubber like material bonded inside the pulley and with the ageing and heat, it just debonds itself. Sometimes it just sits behind the pulley (so you can't see it unless looking from bottom or behind) and starts to make a big hole on the plastic cover behind the pulley. Eventually, it will result in ...

So, amoung the people I worked with on NSX, it is a regular maintenance item to replace the pulley at the time of timing belt change.

Regards,
Kaz

[goldnsx]

...Sometimes it just sits behind the pulley (so you can't see it unless looking from bottom or behind) and starts to make a big hole on the plastic cover behind the pulley.

That's the problem with the failure. If it can't be seen it should be heared but metal on plastic doesn't sound critical enough for most to stop the engine ultimately. Don't get me wrong here. The noise of a broken one is very hard to detect. My friend (who works on his NSX himself) heard some noise but was more feared about the slightly rougher idle of the engine. He drove 30 km back and was very surprised that:
1. it was the HBP
2. he was able to drive home
The HBP needs some, ok very short time to eat up the plastic cover, maybe 50 km, highly depending on the revs.
The HBP shield has two effects:
- you can hear it cleary as metal bangs on metal
- it protects the plastic at least your way to the next garage.

[amo]

well this is avilible from sos as i bought 1 back with me

http://www.scienceofspeed.com/products/engine_performance_products/NSX/Cedar_Ridge/Damper_Shield/

hope this helps

thx amo

[WhyOne?]

So, amoung the people I worked with on NSX, it is a regular maintenance item to replace the pulley at the time of timing belt change.




Is this also known as a Timing Belt Tensioner or is it a different part altogether?

PS - Martin, sorry to hear about your problem, fingers crossed that it is no more serious than currently diagnosed.

[AR]

Is this also known as a Timing Belt Tensioner or is it a different part altogether?

PS - Martin, sorry to hear about your problem, fingers crossed that it is no more serious than currently diagnosed.

Is the harmonic balancer and is not a big job, but you need a Honda or Custom made tool for this.

Cheers,

AR

[AR]

I had suspected that it was a timing issue and AR was bang on when he suggested the timing belt might have sliped.

Sorry to hear about this mate but the smoke and rough running gave me the clue. I drove a car that sounded a bit funny and the belt was not on right.

Is the Harmonic balancer/crankshaft pulley the OEM one?Could you tell us how many miles the car has.

Here is hoping that is only those bits that need changing.

AR

[Senninha]

Hi Martin,

Like others here I hope it is no more than the parts already identified to get you NSX back on the road.

Just a thought, if it turns out to be significantly more, it may be worth an engine swap as a more cost effective solution. There are a couple of units around with owners that may be able to help. Hopefuly it wont come to this.

regards, Paul

[markc]

That's unlucky Martin, I too hope there's not too much collateral damage like bent valves and/or damaged pistons :(

That damper shield looks like good insurance but I can feel/hear the Harmonic Balancer Group Buy as I type. I for one will be having a new one fitted at the next cambelt change.

Good luck with the repair.

Mark

[mart155]

Sorry to hear about this mate but the smoke and rough running gave me the clue. I drove a car that sounded a bit funny and the belt was not on right.

Is the Harmonic balancer/crankshaft pulley the OEM one?Could you tell us how many miles the car has.

Here is hoping that is only those bits that need changing.

AR

AR, Odometer is showing 78968 but the first 59k were in kilometers so that equates to 56631 miles overall.

I am really hoping that there is no further damage and have assumed that if I had bent a valve or two or smashed a hole in one of my pistons the engine would not have run at all or at least without a lot of horible metal on metal noise or some other severe symptoms.

Brian at Norton Way said he had only ever seen this happen once before and it completely destroyed the engine.

Having thought about things overnight, I phoned them again this morning and asked them to check the water pump while they were at it. They confirmed that is did feel a bit stiff so I have asked them to change that as well while they are there.

[goldnsx]

There has been a discussion on prime on the longlivity and the reasons of the failure of a harm. bal. pulley. There's no correlation, it can go anytime if the engine is older. Now, what is 'older'? My friend ones failed 1 month after a complete TB job. Note, you can do anything wrong during this job. His engine had 40k km.:eek:.
Get the shield for sure. If you're meniac you can buy the expensive! pulley also.

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Is this also known as a Timing Belt Tensioner or is it a different part altogether? ............

Timing belt tensioner is #9&10 in the 1st drawing. The Crank Pulley is #6 in the 2nd one. Also the photo of pulley from above the right side of engine.
5173 5175 5174

You'll need a tool like this one to remove the super-tight crank pully bolt. The size of HEX is different between MT and AT. 45mm for the MT and 50mm for the AT. If I remember correctly, at one point, both MT and AT were using the same pulley on Non-JDM model (Acura??) so be careful. You can easily measure the size by removing the rear right wheel. To check whether you have issue or not, look for the scrach mark at the green circle area. Almost no space there but still you can inspect.
5176 5178

Regards,
Kaz

[AR]

Timing belt tensioner is #9&10 in the 1st drawing. The Crank Pulley is #6 in the 2nd one. Also the photo of pulley from above the right side of engine.
5173 5175 5174

You'll need a tool like this one to remove the super-tight crank pully bolt. The size of HEX is different between MT and AT. 45mm for the MT and 50mm for the AT. If I remember correctly, at one point, both MT and AT were using the same pulley on Non-JDM model (Acura??) so be careful. You can easily measure the size by removing the rear right wheel. To check whether you have issue or not, look for the scrach mark at the green circle area. Almost no space there but still you can inspect.
5176 5178

Regards,
Kaz

Kaz do you have this tool, and would you consider doing the swap for members who have a new Harmonic Balancer?

Cheers,

AR

[WhyOne?]

Timing belt tensioner is #9&10 in the 1st drawing. The Crank Pulley is #6 in the 2nd one.

Thanks Kaz!

[NSXGB]

Kaz do you have this tool, and would you consider doing the swap for members who have a new Harmonic Balancer?

Cheers,

AR

. . . I can just picture a queue of NSX's forming outside Kaz's house. . .

So, sorry if I missed it but is it possible to change the harmonic balancer and or the SOS shield without changing the TB?

[markc]

. . . I can just picture a queue of NSX's forming outside Kaz's house. . .

It looks like you should be able to do this with a socket (of the hardened variety) and a breaker bar? The "special" tool doesn't look particularly special.


So, sorry if I missed it but is it possible to change the harmonic balancer and or the SOS shield without changing the TB?

You certainly could change the pulley/harmonic balancer without changing the timing belt but for the price of the belt you might as well do it while you got everything removed and loosend off. Same goes for the water pump... "while you're down there" style ;)

Adding the shield looks very simple with no need to do anything else.

Cheers

Mark

[simonprelude]

If anyone knows the size of the special tool, I have one for the S2000 pulley removal that was made for the supercharger install.

[goldnsx]

You certainly could change the pulley/harmonic balancer without changing the timing belt but for the price of the belt you might as well do it while you got everything removed and loosend off. Same goes for the water pump... "while you're down there" style ;)

One small note here: It's not necessary to do all the rest while you're in there if the TB job is not due. A new pulley or the shield can be swapped out within 1 hour whereas changing the rest adds xx hours or xxxx £££. The prices of the parts (TB) is neglectable to the hours spent to change it which best means pulling the engine!;) We did this two times ourselves and have feedbacks of people doing it without pulling the engine that next time they're pulling it also as you nearly can't work reasonably on the engine if it's installed.

[NSXGB]

My pump and TB were changed 1.5 years ago so would rather not change unless totally necessary. Going to order one of the shields from SOS, good insurance policy.

[mart155]

Maybe I am being stupid but can someone explain how the sheild thing works exactly. Unfortunately I don't have time to get one now as I need the car back asap but I am interested to know.

[sassthathoopie]

My pump and TB were changed 1.5 years ago so would rather not change unless totally necessary. Going to order one of the shields from SOS, good insurance policy.

This is the situation I'm in. If I have understood correctly this means a new pulley and/or shield fitting would be around an hours work at a dealer?

Is this correct?

[WhyOne?]

I feel a shield group-buy coming on!

At least the shipping should be relatively cheap (compared to bonnets & engine covers)!

[goldnsx]

This is the situation I'm in. If I have understood correctly this means a new pulley and/or shield fitting would be around an hours work at a dealer?

Is this correct?

Yes. Remind that the dealer has to have the right tool for it. Most of the dealers have the 50 mm one which is used on Legends but mine (91) had 45 mm.

@mart155: The shield adds two aspects. First: If the HBP comes loose it protects the plastic TB cover. Of course, you can't drive xxxxx miles with it. Second: The sound is more clearly that something is wrong with the car as metal bangs on metal instead of metal on plastic.
For a normal driver the shield alone is sufficient. Maniac owners may change the pulley as well. I did mine after 18 years and 120Tkm but I'm over maniac on my car anyway. :)

Last but not least: I've one shield for sale if someone needs one very fast but please remind that I'm in Switzerland.

[markc]

This is the situation I'm in. If I have understood correctly this means a new pulley and/or shield fitting would be around an hours work at a dealer?

Is this correct?

I interpret it as, pulley/harmonic balancer takes about an hour. Shield fitting considerable less than this, 20mins(?) if doing it on it's own, maybe an extra 5mins if doing at the same time as a new pulley. Therefore total time for pulley and shield 1hr 5mins.

Cheers

Mark

[NSXGB]

So are there two types of harmonic balancers from what has been said above?
As I understand it a cheaper one from a Legend maybe? Then a more expensive one probably the same but with an "I saw you coming" NSX price tag?
What is the difference?

[goldnsx]

As for the labor it's the same as you have to remove the pulley to install the shield. Removing the pulley is a two-people job and 'hardcore' even then.

I don't know if the Legend pulley is the same. I strongly think that it's not. The pulley drives the A/C comp. and alternator. On some NSX's the pulley is 45 on some 50 mm but I don't know which one. I was only told that some early engines had one of these and all later ones the other. Legend is 50 mm for sure.
Regarding the part no. of a US pulley it was revised at least two times. I bought one of the latest versions last year and there was no sign of difference to the old one.

[AR]

Same goes for the water pump... "while you're down there" style ;)

That is what I wanted when I had my TB/WP and the rest but Honda Uk was backordered until who knows!!! Now I got my harmonic Balancer but no special tool.

[richmills]

Sorry, non-mechanic here trying to understand the issues :D

Are the "harmonic balancer" and "crank shaft pulley" the same thing?

Cheers, Rich.

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Hi, all.

Didn’t realise this thread was still going on so apology in advance if I’m writing the duplicated comments as I normally first write this in MS-Word during my spare time and then paste it later into the forum.

I’m treating harmonic balancer and crank pulley as the same thing in this post, Rich.

There are 2 different pulleys for our NSX. One with 45mm HEX and the other one with 50mm.

The photo of the tool in post #26 is mine and yes, I’m happy to help the member if I can find spare time, AR.

The size of my tool is HEX45mm. This is for all of the MT models except for the non-JDM early MT ones (mainly Acura model??). They were using the HEX50mm which is the same for all of the AT.

HEX50mm is quite common for other Honda models so you can also get similar tool from Amazon UK and so on.
In US, you can get HEX45mm from Amazon USA but I haven’t seen the same one on the UK site.

I brought them from Japan so it was not that expensive but if you are working on the engine, it’s worth having them.
07JAB0010300 Holder Att, HEX45mm GBP45.40+VAT
07JAB0010400 Holder Att, HEX50mm GBP31.97+VAT (You can get this 50mm one from other sources quite easily)
07JAB001020B Handle Holder GBP44.01+VAT

Without this tool, you’ll really struggle to remove the pulley bolt unless you have access to the impact wrench with sub-tank attached.
Although the specified torque is 250Nm, the original service manual didn’t specify the detailed lubrication point for this bolt and the crank pulley. Therefore, if your mechanic didn’t know about this or if the bolt was never removed, sometimes you will need around 500Nm to loosen this bolt because of the heat and aging. Hope you won’t sear off the bolt… By the way, never ever try to loosen this bolt by locking the flywheel side of the crankshaft. You may be able to use this method on other cars but not for NSX engine. It will twist the crankshaft and although the engine will run, it won’t be at its 100% performance.

NSXGB, you must have passed in front of my garage as I already have another NSX in there (NOT for the crank pulley though) and I hope I’ll see more of them in the future… Not queuing yet…
5185

You can replace the crank pulley without doing anything on the timing belt. The timing belt is driven by the ‘timing belt (TB) drive pulley’ which is behind the crank pulley and inside the timing belt/water pump plastic cover. Already confused? Then have a look at post #26. In the 2nd drawing, the crank pulley is #6 and the TB drive pulley is #4. The TB drive pulley just sits behind/inside the plastic cover where you can see the green circle at the last drawing. The crank pulley just sits outside of the plastic cover.

I never used the shield from SoS but their product will be sandwiched between the crank pulley and the plastic cover to prevent the broken pulley to eat into the cover. Good idea, I think, but never used it so I can’t comment from my experience.

The time required for this job will depends on the state of the pulley bolt as described above. You may be able to finish it in 1Hr or it could be ages if the bolt was seized and if you are working alone…

Regards,
Kaz

[mart155]

OK, The good news is that there doesn't seem to be any other obvoius damage to the engine (hoorah). They have replaced the crank pulley, water pump, cambelt, cambelt cover and fanbelt and have had it running. They said that everthing sounds fine.

The not so good news is that now they have had it running, the sodding engine management light has decided to come on and is showing a fault on one of the o2 sensors. (It wasn't on before, even after the pulley failure)
As they have run out of time today, I am stuck without the car for the bank holiday weekend :(
I was planning to pop up to MK for the Honda meet on Sunday evening but thats not going to happen now. Oh well, as long as everything is sorted before Japfest!!

[TheSebringOne]

Martin, great news that the engine is ok. :thumbsup:

[AR]

Kaz I guess the only way to know the size is to have a look at the nut???

Mart great news on your car!

Cheers,

AR

[duncan]

Crank shaft pulley holder: easily available in the UK,
see your local 'go faster' shop; Lazer Tools ref 3729, 45mm listed as Prelude 94-95 and Honda/Accura V6, list price £20.80, it fits mine, 1995 manual.

Lazer also list for later [Honda] models, ref 3760, list £33.50, 50mm and cross ref'd to Civic, Accord, Prelude, Legend, CRV and Shuttle.

[mart155]

Finally got the car back today, the CEL is still coming on though due to the rear O2 sensor but I decided to source my own rather than pay £320 for a Honda one.

It seems there really was no further damage to anything in the engine so I have been damned lucky.

Now that I have seen the pulley and timing belt cover, I finally understand what caused the problem.
Here are some pictures of the bits and pieces

[AR]

The words F*cking lucky come to mind. As for the O2 senso just get a Generic Ebay jobbie. Be aware that it could either be a really easy job or a real pain in the A$$! Don;t use any pnetrating oil, just some heat. Don't be surprised if the O2 sensor breaks in the manifold!

[mart155]

Oh no! Don't say that AR.
having had the 'good' luck, it will be just my 'bad' luck to snap the damned thing off.

Is it easier from below or above? anyone know the best approach.
Should I try and crack it with an impact or apply steady pressure.

I know you can buy a special tool/socket but the tecnician said its best to use a ring spanner so you can get most of the torque at the base of the sensor.
Cheers
Martin.

[AR]

Mate in my case I have a pit so access was no difficult at all. I cutt off the plug bit with the wires that I was going to reuse. Remember you can't solder the wires as it will change the values. I removed the body of the sensor with molegrips, and used a 6 side 22MM socket and a braker bar. I rock it back and forth a bit and once it got going, I gave it a quarter turn and it snapped! I had no choice but to use an assortment of drill bits, punches and pliers to remove the end bit without buggering the threads. Apparently heat is a good idea, or so I remembered after the fact!

[Ewan]

I know you can buy a special tool/socket but the tecnician said its best to use a ring spanner so you can get most of the torque at the base of the sensor.


Eh? Martin - I went to a Motor Parts Direct (http://home.btconnect.com/MOTORPARTSDIRECT/FindBranch.htm) store and they had an O2 sensor socket in stock... [for about £10 IIRC]

5221

That fits over the sensor with the cutout leaving space for the wire on the sensor (so it doesn't get fouled) and provides a nice connection at the bottom. You'd have a job getting a ring spanner over the sensor, unless you wanted to take the plug off the end and pass the wire through the spanner.

For peace of mind, I'd rather try one of these and resort to mole grips etc if it really wouldn't shift :) I just scooted a little WD40 onto the thread, wiped away any excess then left it for an hour - the sensor came right out with no problems (http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/testvb/showpost.php?p=49451&postcount=16)(but then mine was only 5 years old...)

cheers, Ewan

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Hi, mart155 and all.

If your sensor was installed long-long time ago and without the copper grease, the best way to remove it is to heat up the mating flange with the burner. It comes off without any struggle. I have one of these 'O2 sensor socket tool' and if the sensor was left there for a long period, I would spend ages to remove it if I didn't apply any heat.

Regards,
Kaz

[mart155]

AR, how did you join the wires if you did not solder?
I am not sure I will need to yet, the new sensors only just arrived but they are both identical.
Can anyone tell me how long the wires need to be and if the measurement is from tip to tip or just the wire. I am sure I read 500/570mm somewhere.

[simonprelude]

Or try ebay.

http://search.ebay.co.uk/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&from=R40&dfsp=1&satitle=oxygen+sensor+tool&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&a25563=-24&a39=-24&a10244=-24&pfmode=1&pfid=3526&alist=a25563%2Ca51%2Ca59615%2Ca39%2Ca10244&reqtype=1&gcs=2100&pf_query=oxygen+sensor+tool&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D3&sadis=200&fpos=BA11+2UY&sabfmts=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search

[mart155]

Sorry Simon, try ebay for what. Are you refering to the earlier posts about the socket/tool to remove the sensors?

What I am trying to find out now is how long the wires should be and what method to use to extend them if necessary.

The technician at Norton Way said to solder the wires but AR said you can't use solder because it changes the values.

So....before I try and remove the old sensors, I thought I would just prepare by working out what I might need to do because the wires on the new sensors do look quite short.

[Sublime]

What I am trying to find out now is how long the wires should be and what method to use to extend them if necessary.

The technician at Norton Way said to solder the wires but AR said you can't use solder because it changes the values.

So....before I try and remove the old sensors, I thought I would just prepare by working out what I might need to do because the wires on the new sensors do look quite short.

It's the resistance of the wire and possible solder joint that would change the values, adding a different gauge and or length of wire does affect it but depends on the electrical tolerances of the sensor you have to play with as to whether this is acceptable.

Is the length of wire from the old sensors longer than the new ones you have?

Have fun,
Steven

[mart155]

Don't know yet, I haven't had chance to try and take the old ones out.

Hence the question asking how long they should be so I would know if I need to extend them when I take the old ones out. I want to make sure I have everything to hand when I start the job.

All I can tell you is that the new ones are approx 440mm from tip to tip.

[Sublime]

Don't know yet, I haven't had chance to try and take the old ones out.

Hence the question asking how long they should be so I would know if I need to extend them when I take the old ones out. I want to make sure I have everything to hand when I start the job.

All I can tell you is that the new ones are approx 440mm from tip to tip.

Personally I would presume the following, if they are an OEM part or stated to be a direct replacement then they should be the correct length as is, however, if should you find the old ones are longer, adding more wire of the same gauge to make them the same length should have no adverse affect since it would be no different from what you already have. Besides, logic would dictate that the tolerances cannot be that tight, it's on a car after all, otherwise the part would be very expensive and may have to be made of different material and or have protection and or shielding from varying temperatures, etc., so as not to affect it's resistance.

Anyway, hope that helps a little.

Have fun,
Steven

[AR]

Here is a better explanation :

General Installation Tips If you are replacing the O2 Sensor with a universal replacement sensor, you'll have to splice the factory connector plug onto the new sensor. Or if you've order a sensor kit which comes with connectors, you'll have to install the connectors which come with the kit onto the new sensor wires. DO NOT solder the connectors onto the wires. They must be crimped on for the O2 sensor to work correctly. For the sensor to work correctly, it must draw clean air down to the sensor through the air gaps in the stranded wire. If you solder the wires, the solder will fill the air gaps in the wire and the sensor will not work correctly.

Taken from:

http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/fuel-18.htm

There are several other sources, if you technician is saying to solder it...

[Sublime]

Here is a better explanation :

General Installation Tips If you are replacing the O2 Sensor with a universal replacement sensor, you'll have to splice the factory connector plug onto the new sensor. Or if you've order a sensor kit which comes with connectors, you'll have to install the connectors which come with the kit onto the new sensor wires. DO NOT solder the connectors onto the wires. They must be crimped on for the O2 sensor to work correctly. For the sensor to work correctly, it must draw clean air down to the sensor through the air gaps in the stranded wire. If you solder the wires, the solder will fill the air gaps in the wire and the sensor will not work correctly.

Taken from:

http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/fuel-18.htm

There are several other sources, if you technician is saying to solder it...

Given that tip, adding extra wire should be no problem, all that you have to do is be careful not to block entry into the sensor, soldering in the middle of the wire wouldn't affect air flow unless it's completely covered by a sleeve and that is the only route the air could take.

Have fun,
Steven

[AR]

Given that tip, adding extra wire should be no problem, all that you have to do is be careful not to block entry into the sensor, soldering in the middle of the wire wouldn't affect air flow unless it's completely covered by a sleeve and that is the only route the air could take.

Have fun,
Steven

Steven they are not talking about air as in ventilation, if you solder the wire it will stop the "flow" so to speak.

[Sublime]

Steven they are not talking about air as in ventilation, if you solder the wire it will stop the "flow" so to speak.

Indeed, it's for measuring purposes, but the only way to have flow through the stranded wire is for it to be completely in a sleeve into the sensor and open the other end to the atmosphere...

[AR]

Until otherwise proven wrong I will continue to advocate:

Splicing = :)
Crimping = :)
Solder = :no:

Bus as usual YMMV!

[Sublime]

Until otherwise proven wrong I will continue to advocate:

Splicing = :)
Crimping = :)
Solder = :no:

Bus as usual YMMV!

Fair enough, I can relate to that, I need to understand how something works to be comfortable with any given solution :).

Have fun,
Steven

[mart155]

I thought that the only thing that flows along wire is electric current so could understand how a change in resistance might be an issue but now I am really confused by all this discussion about air flowing down wire.:overhead:

[AR]

I thought that the only thing that flows along wire is electric current so could understand how a change in resistance might be an issue but now I am really confused by all this discussion about air flowing down wire.:overhead:

No confusion needed mate just splice the cable if you need to and job done.

[mart155]

Would if I could mate.
Just spent 2 and a half hours trying to get the f&*%$*g thing out but to no avail.
I bought a draper O2 Sensor Socket which just seemed to have too much spring in it. Even after almost breaking my arms, all I managed to do was to get the socket stuck solid on the old sensor where it had slipped round slightly.
Took me another half hour to get the socket off.

I must be missing something here, short of dropping the exhaust, I can't see how you get to it and how you are supposed to apply heat is beyond me.

Any more tips anyone?

Cheers
Martin.

[NSXGB]

Heat the collar on the exhaust where the O2 sensor screws in....the action of it heating up then cooling willl hopefully break the corroded seal that has formed in the screwthread.

[AR]

Any more tips anyone?

Cheers
Martin.

Mate read my post above and the problems I had. If i would have waited until the next day and applied some some heat to the area, it might have been easier. It is b**** of a job! Cut off the wire get some heat on it and get a six sided socket in there, work it back and forth with a breaker bar, and you might get lucky.

Fairy liquid has worked as a lubricant too since you can't use any of the oily ones or you risk messing up the new sensor.

Cheers,

AR

[mart155]

AR, there appears to be some sort of heat sheild where the sensor screws in, do I have to remove that in order to apply heat to the area

[AR]

AR, there appears to be some sort of heat sheild where the sensor screws in, do I have to remove that in order to apply heat to the area

Hi mate it might make it easier, but you might encounter problems getting it back on.

Cheers,

AR