PPC Buyers Guide info

[Tom@PPC]

Hello again guys, following on from my previous thread I am requesting info for the buyers guide.

Regarding the photoshoot, to all those that e-mailed me and Ed, I'm waiting for instructions from Ed for the next step, but he is off sick at the mo (we reckon it's swine fever :laugh: but most likely a hangover.) We haven't forgotten about you!


Ok, I would like your general feelings on what makes the NSX so special, general tech info, known/common problems and fixes, and also any UK specialists you can recommend for parts, servicing etc.

I have read a load of info and done searches of the forum, but nothing like asking direct questions :D Info on standard and popular upgrades on brakes and suspension would be terrifically helpful.

Thanks guys

Tom @ Practical Performance Car magazine

[NoelWatson]

Hello again guys, following on from my previous thread I am requesting info for the buyers guide.

Regarding the photoshoot, to all those that e-mailed me and Ed, I'm waiting for instructions from Ed for the next step, but he is off sick at the mo (we reckon it's swine fever :laugh: but most likely a hangover.) We haven't forgotten about you!


Ok, I would like your general feelings on what makes the NSX so special, general tech info, known/common problems and fixes, and also any UK specialists you can recommend for parts, servicing etc.

I have read a load of info and done searches of the forum, but nothing like asking direct questions :D Info on standard and popular upgrades on brakes and suspension would be terrifically helpful.

Thanks guys

Tom @ Practical Performance Car magazine

We can bore you to tears with mods and how they affect power. I have before and after runs for standard vs exhaust and intake.

[Tom@PPC]

Bore away mate, the more detailed info the better as far as I'm concerned.

[NoelWatson]

I'll start with an outline, and hopefully everyone will pile in

Power: (I speak from a 3.2 perspective here) - an exhaust and intake (standard one is believed to be too restrictive yields around 15bhp at the hubs. Extra may be gleaned from removing the cats or using hi-flo cats, but don't have back to back dyno info as far as I am aware. There are several exhausts - I have a Taitec


Chassis: Even without modifications, NSX's come with various different suspension setups, including

Pre 97 (not too hot on this)

97-01 Coupe (also Type S)
97-05 targa (not sure it had suspension mods in 02)
02-05 Coupe
02 Type R

Several people have fitted chassis bars, and others the type R suspension (a number believe this to be too stiff for UK roads)

Brakes: Standard brakes are pretty marginal for track work. One option is to go for the Type R upgrade.

Cosmetic:

Engine cover: The standard engine cover is heavy and one could argue it retains too much heat/noise. Alternatives are the Type R engine cover (steep), or a custom made one

Dealers/Specialists:

Plans

http://www.plansmotorsport.com/

I go to Chiswick Honda (you can get 10% if you are NSXCB member)

[Tom@PPC]

Excellent, thank you mate. Could do with info on the following...

Are they galvanised? I presume they don't rust really?

Are they many imports?

Are Type S/R suspension upgrades more popular than aftermarket equipment (coilovers etc)?

Are Type S/R brake upgrades more popular than aftermarket equipment (big brake kits etc)?


That'll do for now, and NSXCB will get a shout in the feature for the help given so get your answers in :D

Thanks

[AR]

Are they galvanised? I presume they don't rust really?

Being aluminium they dont rust but on a hand full models there has been corrosion issues and I wonder if it coincides with paint work?

Are they many imports?

Mostly autos and mostly stuff the Japanese would not have.
That we know off and have proof, there are:

1 NA2- NSX-R
2 NA1- NSX-R
1 NSX type S

Are Type S/R suspension upgrades more popular than aftermarket equipment (coilovers etc)?

Depends n the objective, but the price of OEM parts makes the aftermarket a more sensible option.

Are Type S/R brake upgrades more popular than aftermarket equipment (big brake kits etc)?

Again is an upgrade for the earlier cars, but for the money one is better off getting "quality" aftermarket ones. Stoptech, Brembo, AP are among the most popular.

That'll do for now, and NSXCB will get a shout in the feature for the help given so get your answers in :D

Some important things that you SHOULD mention:

The NSX does not have a 168 mph top speed!!!

180 + will be more realistic.

With a complete exhaust system the 3.0 NSX is around 295 + and the 3.2 300.

Hope that helps,

Cheers,

AR

[markc]

Excellent, thank you mate. Could do with info on the following...

Are they galvanised? I presume they don't rust really?

Are they many imports?

Are Type S/R suspension upgrades more popular than aftermarket equipment (coilovers etc)?

Are Type S/R brake upgrades more popular than aftermarket equipment (big brake kits etc)?


That'll do for now, and NSXCB will get a shout in the feature for the help given so get your answers in :D

Thanks

Hi Tom, you obviously haven't read that much info on the NSX ;) (Just pulling your leg by the way)

The entire chassis and most of the suspension components are aluminium so galvanising is not relevant, the car doesn't and can't "rust". It (aluminium) can of course corrode but this is almost unheard of in the chassis of the NSX. There have been tales of suspension components corroding and siezing against each other so that adjustment becomes impossible, until freed/fixed anyway.

The suspension in double wishbones all round and is completely adjustable (camber/caster/toe). The suspension arms themselves are forged latice aluminium things of great beauty. You need to get underneath an NSX and see and understand the full engineering tour de force that it is :)

I'd guess that somewhere between 50 and 100 NSX have been imported over the years(?) and added to the circa 500 that were sold through UK Honda dealers. Given that quite a few cars will have been total losses over the 20 years since they went on sale, there are probably considerably less than 500 currently registered and on UK roads today.

Suspension "upgrades" - I'd suggest aftermarket suspensions are more commonly fitted than Type S or R factory systems. Firstly because the aftermarket options lower the car which is a look many people into tuning want. The factory S and R options do lower the car but only fractionally (a few mm's). Secondly because aftermarket systems are generally cheaper than the factory options. The Type S and R (there are 2 of these for the NA1 and NA2 NSX-R's)systems significanty stiffen spring rates and reduce the standard cars tendancy to fall into roll oversteer. However this comes at the price of suppleness for which the standard system is extrordinarily good. Combined with the then unique front suspension/steering which virtually eliminates bump steer, a standard NSX is amazingly fast along bumpy B roads where something stiffer like a Porsche would have to back off or visit a hedgerow. Tien is a common aftermarket system used.

Brake upgrades - The Type S and R do not have uprated brakes over standard NSX's. To be exact the Type S is identical while R uses slotted discs (same size) and differant pads i.e. a very marginal upgrade. All are perfectly capable for all but the most extreme road use. Big Brake kits are they way to go for track cars but they're hugely expensive to do them properly i.e. front AND back so that you retain correct bias. You also need bigger front wheels to accomadate them (so you need matching rears) and therefore doing it properly is hugely expensive.

Have a look here for results of a rolling road (actually hub dyno) day we did last year... http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/index.php?categoryid=26

It'd be interesting to get a genuinely unbiased view on the NSX interior from a journo. Most trot out the same old "looks like a Civic" and "not up to supercar standards". Remember to compare it to 90's Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo, Lotus!! interiors before you condem it ;)

The above are my personal opinions and others here may have slightly differant views.

Please can we proof read your article before you go to print???

Cheers

Mark

[markc]

AR, you posted while I was typing. Good job we mostly agree :)

Personally I'd have PPC go with the factory claim of 168mph for the NA1's and 170mph for the NA2's. Sure a slightly modded, really good car might eventually run to 180mph but this is not the norm.

Cheers

Mark

[AR]

AR, you posted while I was typing. Good job we mostly agree :)

Personally I'd have PPC go with the factory claim of 168mph for the NA1's and 170mph for the NA2's. Sure a slightly modded, really good car might eventually run to 180mph but this is not the norm.

Cheers

Mark

Mark, LOL I wish I was as eloquent as you mate!

Perhaps I should have posted that a slightly modded NSX will reach 180.

We will leave FI out for now. :)

[Tom@PPC]

Awesome response Mark, thank you! I quickly realised my mistake asking about galvanising, but thought it'd give you some material to work with anyway :) ;)

So do owners generally stick with OEM suspension? But opt for aftermarket stuff if they want an 'upgrade' (I noted your use of the inverted commas, I presume purists don't see aftermarket stuff as an upgrade). And thanks for clarifying the brake setups for me.

I played the first Gran Tuismo when I was about 11, saw an NSX and thought, "Wow, that is amazing!" so objectivity will take a bit of a back seat, as will the 'Civic' etc cliches.

I can't really post up the entire article when its done, as a user of this site might see the mag and think, "ooh, an NSX feature....oh wait, I've read that on NSXCB" and put it back on the shelf. If there's something you feel I should particularly focus on then say, and if there's something I'm particularly struggling with I'll post a snippet, but on the whole, you'll have to buy the mag [shameless plug] out the end of may [/shameless plug]

[Tom@PPC]

Oh and cheers AR, we always include the factory claims and then potential tuning options and their gains, so it'll all go in.

Cheers guys!

[NoelWatson]

AR, you posted while I was typing. Good job we mostly agree :)

Personally I'd have PPC go with the factory claim of 168mph for the NA1's and 170mph for the NA2's. Sure a slightly modded, really good car might eventually run to 180mph but this is not the norm.

Cheers

Mark

Think the manufacturers claims are reasonably accurate. IIRC, the original road test car did 159 round the banking, as did Simon's 1997. It was only the 02 road test that posted a ludicrous 172 mph.

[AR]

Think the manufacturers claims are reasonably accurate. IIRC, the original road test car did 159 round the banking, as did Simon's 1997. It was only the 02 road test that posted a ludicrous 172 mph.

Well I guess some of us got a "reason" doubt them claims. :)

[AR]

Oh and cheers AR, we always include the factory claims and then potential tuning options and their gains, so it'll all go in.

Cheers guys!

Tom,

I am not one for mags but will buy yopurs as I am one for NSX stuff.

Cheers,

AR

[DamianW]

Just a small reply on "what makes it so special" - in my view its the sheer engineering that went into the car. In one foul swoop it made everything look antiquated. That it never sold well in this country remains a travesty of badge snobbery.

The car, in standard form, strikes a ride/handling balance that is absolutely remarkable. Nothing I've driven before or since can demolish a B road like an NSX. The only criticism you could perhaps level at it, as they did at the time, is that its perhaps a bit of a school swot - tries a bit too hard to be all things to all men.

Its two years since I sold mine and part of me still regrets it!

[NSX 2000]

Just for info these are what we belive to be the UK sales figures

Year Sales
1991 125
1992 41
1993 47
1994 19
1995 55
1996 38
1997 35
1998 10
1999 17
2000 11
2001 8
2002 23
2003 20
2004 17
2005 24
2006 1

HTH

Paul.

[DamianW]

Common faults - have we mentioned the dodgy synchro on changes into second and third from cold? Only seems to affect some cars, but did affect mine to a small degree. You can mitigate against it by working the box a bit before setting off.

[NSX 2000]

Some more info from when I was looking to buy my first NSX

Honda NSX History

Jan 1991 Introduced with 3.0litre V6 DOHC VTEC 276 PS Man – 256 4 Speed Auto
All had Leather trim , air con. Auto had electric power steering
Cost new £55,000 (£3000 extra for Auto)
Oct 1992 Drivers airbag
Apr 1994 Passenger airbag
1994 Model Year changes 16” wheels and brakes
Adoption of electric power steering for manual
1995 Model Year changes
• Option of “open top” NSX-T model (We cannot use the word “Targa”as it is registered by Porsche) Removable roof available in body colour instead of Black
• Adoption of “F-Matic fingertip stalk for auto model
• Adoption of “Drive by wire” throttle linkage – with integrated TCS (Traction Control System) and cruise control
• Adoption of Torsen LSD (Limited Slip Differential)
• Leather trim choice increased to 3 – Black, Red, Tan

1998 Model Year changes
• 3.2 Litre 280 PS ENGINE (Auto retained 256 PS engine) Power up by 4 PS but
10% torque increase to 298 Nm)
• 6 Speed manual transmission
• Wheel size up from 162 to 172, with larger brakes – up from 282 mm to 298 mm at front plus new calipers
• Revised front spoiler
• Changes to power steering ECU to improve “stability weighting”
• ECU transponder immobilser
• 9000 mile service interval
• 3 year 90,000 warranty from 1999

2002 Model Year changes
• Fixed headlights to meet Euro legislation
• Partial change to bumpers, spoilers and skirts
• Front tyre from 215/45 R16 to 215/40 R17 (Rim 7JJ X 17)
• Rear tyre from 245/40 R17 to 255/40 R17 (Rim 9JJ X 17)
• Various detail changes including interior surface upgrade

HTH

Paul

[Tom@PPC]

Brilliant stuff guys, much appreciated.

Some info on the interior would be good actually, gets a slating in various corners of the 'net...why so? Pics are always useful.

Cheers

[NSX 2000]

Honda Press release from 2005.

TOKYO, Japan, July 12, 2005 - Honda Motor Co., Ltd. has announced that it will discontinue production of the NSX, a vehicle that has enjoyed considerable popularity as pure sports car and won many fans worldwide. Honda is currently working on a successor, a new sports car for a new era, which is to incorporate Honda’s most advanced technology.




NSX


The NSX made its debut in 1990 as a genuine mid-engine sports car with an all-aluminum monocoque body—a world’s first for a production vehicle at the time. The NSX continued to evolve, with performance improvements including increased displacement, a 6-speed manual transmission, enhanced aerodynamic performance, and different tire sizes, along with the addition of the NSX Type-T open-top model and the NSX Type-R pure sports model with further enhanced driving performance. One of the first true sports cars to adopt clean emissions measures, the NSX succeeded in combining exhilarating driving performance with superior environmental performance. As a result, the NSX achieved total worldwide sales of more than 18,000* units during the 15 years it was in production.

Even after NSX production draws to a close, Honda will continue to foster an environment supportive of NSX owners and their enjoyment of their cars, through meticulous maintenance of NSX vehicles, a Refresh Plan to preserve vehicles in their optimum condition, and the continuing support of NSX Owners’ Meetings to assist owners who wish to enhance their driving skills.

Production of vehicles destined for the North American market will be discontinued at the end of December, 2005. Production of vehicles destined for the European market will be discontinued at the end of September, 2005.
*As of the end of June 2005

< Highlights of the History of the NSX >
Feb. 1989 NS-X mid-engine sports car prototype introduced at the Chicago Auto Show
Oct. 1989 NS-X exhibited at the Tokyo Motor Show
Aug. 1990 Acura NSX went on sale in the US
Sept. 1990 NSX went on sale in Japan
1991 “Owners’ Meetings”, designed to enhance driving skills, inaugurated
Jan. 1992 Custom order interior and body color plan introduced; its range later expanded.
Nov. 1992 Pure sports model Type-R added to the line-up
Feb. 1993 Minor model change (addition of passenger-side SRS airbags, other enhanced equipment)
1993 “Refresh Plan” introduced as premium service for maturing vehicles
Feb. 1994 Minor model change (16/17” aluminum wheels, reinforced brake pads)
Mar. 1995 Minor model change (Drive-By-Wire electronic control, F-Matic manual-feel automatic transmission, open-top Type-T added to line-up)
Feb. 1997 Minor model change (3.2-liter manual transmission model, 6-speed manual transmission, introduction of Type-S)
Sept. 1999 Minor model change (reduced exhaust emissions, enhanced equipment)
Dec. 2001 Minor model change (exterior design changes, 17” tires front and back)
May 2002 New NSX Type-R model introduced
Oct. 2003 Minor model change (Immobilizer, new body colors)

[DamianW]

Brilliant stuff guys, much appreciated.

Some info on the interior would be good actually, gets a slating in various corners of the 'net...why so? Pics are always useful.

Cheers

Its a little plastic fantastic. Rumour has it that Honda wanted the dashboard to be covered in leather but suffered from problems in the heat, so ended up covering it in vinyl.

The stick it gets is a bit unfair though. The way the centre console swoops down, and the rake of the screen, make it quite an interesting place to be I think. The ergonomics, and visibility, are first rate - and you can't say that about Italian exotica of the day!

[NSX 2000]

My interior :cool:

[markc]

So do owners generally stick with OEM suspension? But opt for aftermarket stuff if they want an 'upgrade' (I noted your use of the inverted commas, I presume purists don't see aftermarket stuff as an upgrade). And thanks for clarifying the brake setups for me.

If there's something you feel I should particularly focus on then say, and if there's something I'm particularly struggling with I'll post a snippet, but on the whole, you'll have to buy the mag [shameless plug] out the end of may [/shameless plug]

Hi Tom, I didn't mean to be sniffy about aftermarket suspension. Most of the stuff available for NSX is pretty good quality and some of it excellent... you'll pay $$$'s though. The difficulty is selecting a system that gives you the improvement you're after be it looks through lowering or roll stiffness through spring rate without destroying the other areas, usually the ride quality. The standard car is such a good compamise, if a little soft by very modern standards, that aftermarket stuff is a risk unless you know exactly what you're getting into in terms of ride/handling.

My own car is an imported (original) Type S and the suspension, 60+% stiffer than standard, is IMHO superb but potentially a touch firm for a daily driver. The NSX-R setup is even stiffer again and akin to running a Porsche 964RS as a daily driver... not many people would do that.

Like Damian, from day one I was drawn to the engineering of the car and I always like articles to recognise this, perhaps a pic of the naked aluminium monocoque, titanium con rods (both world firsts for a production car) and/or the suspension? See pics attached...

I also like the fact that it isn't made by Porsche or Ferrari ;)

Although the cars are reasonablty affordable to buy now and are very reliable, things can get very expensive when they go wrong or, heaven forbid, you have an accident. Please don't overexaggerate this BUT it's worth noting that the average bodyshop is not used working on all aluminium monocoques!

You'll be pleased to know that I regularly buy PPC but have to say it's not always easy to find on the shelves.

Cheers

Mark

[NoelWatson]

2002 Model Year changes
• Fixed headlights to meet Euro legislation
• Partial change to bumpers, spoilers and skirts
• Front tyre from 215/45 R16 to 215/40 R17 (Rim 7JJ X 17)
• Rear tyre from 245/40 R17 to 255/40 R17 (Rim 9JJ X 17)
• Various detail changes including interior surface upgrade

HTH

Paul

They missed the stiffer front springs and thicker rear ARB

[markc]

Brilliant stuff guys, much appreciated.

Some info on the interior would be good actually, gets a slating in various corners of the 'net...why so? Pics are always useful.

Cheers

Tom, sounds a bit like you haven't seen/experienced one in the flesh? If this is the case one of us should pop your NSX cherry before you put pen to paper.

Where are you based?

Cheers

Mark

[DamianW]

On the suspension "upgrade" thing - I always found OEM to be a great road car balance. If I was tracking the car then I'd want it stiffened considerably, but for the road I always thought OEM was just fine. In the UK I think most people have stuck with standard haven't they? We have a few upgraders on here but I'm not sure they represent a majority.

[sassthathoopie]

The NSX still remains a hugely significant car for most petrolheads. However you will almost enevitably come across the same myths resurfacing time and again. It would be nice if your article addressed this.

The following is a thread that suprised many by the length of discussion on the pistonheads forum. Be sure to cross reference opinions against ownership/experience with an NSX! Several regular posters here were involved in this discussion. Flemke (a McLaren F1 owner) after being initially pessimistic about its ability before purchase is now as an owner a big fan. http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=646243&hw=nsx&nmt=NSX-too%20slow%20to%20be%20taken%20seriously?

The Gordon Murray article translated from the Japanese is well worth finding as there are some great quotes. I think I put a link in the above thread.

As for my personal thoughts about the NSX, I posted this a month after purchase having just completed an effortless 3500 mile lap of Europe:

Likes:

Noise
Taitec exhaust means the car sounds awesome where ever it is in the rev range; so much so that the drivers window tends to be down most of the time! Car sounds unbelivable doing three point turns in tiny Italian piazzas!
Passion/Exotic
For me everything about the car exudes a feeling of being studied in detail by highly committed Japanese engineers, every bit as passionately as their Italian counterparts, only with better execution.

Performance
This car just takes apart an A road in comparrison to my previous cars! It is very effective at overtaking, and the standard suspension offers a ride/handling balance that shouldn't be possible.

Usability
As happy thraping up an alpine pass as it is at high speed motorway cruising

Individuality
Maybe I've had my eyes closed but I have only ever seen one on UK roads, excluding those times when I'm on the way to a meet. Generally it is only recognised for what it is by real petrolheads. Most trips will elicit a thumbs up and a grin from someone, and kids love it.

Value
I feel like I have 7/10s of a Carrera GT or McLaren F1 for 1/15 of the price...

Taken from here
http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/testvb/showthread.php?t=5350

HTH

[sassthathoopie]

My car was featured in a Buyers Guide in the Feb 2008 edition of Japanese Performance magazine.

I can supply you with a pic of the original aluminium briefcase included with the launch cars if you'd like one.

[Tom@PPC]

Tom, sounds a bit like you haven't seen/experienced one in the flesh? If this is the case one of us should pop your NSX cherry before you put pen to paper.

Where are you based?

Cheers

Mark

I have to admit I haven't been in an NSX and was thinking on my way to work this morning it may be worthwhile being taken for a ride. PPC is based just outside of Stamford near Peterborough, but I'm staying in Lincoln. If anyone round here is willing to take me for a blat in the next few days, I'm all over that tbh!


My car was featured in a Buyers Guide in the Feb 2008 edition of Japanese Performance magazine.

I can supply you with a pic of the original aluminium briefcase included with the launch cars if you'd like one.

Yeah, that'd be excellent. Post it here or email it to me at thughes86@googlemail.co.uk

[markc]

I have to admit I haven't been in an NSX and was thinking on my way to work this morning it may be worthwhile being taken for a ride. PPC is based just outside of Stamford near Peterborough, but I'm staying in Lincoln. If anyone round here is willing to take me for a blat in the next few days, I'm all over that tbh!

I'm Surrey based so can't offer you the viewing and ride. Hopefully one of the members lives close and can help. Anyone?

In the meantime try this QuickTime animation of the interior... http://www.nsxprime.com/Gallery/multimedia/nsx-interior.qt

And here's one of a particularly nice colour combo ;) ... http://www.nsxprime.com/Gallery/multimedia/nsx-ext-openingdoor.qt

Once loaded drag the mouse around to move around in the picture.

Cheers

Mark

[sassthathoopie]

Yeah, that'd be excellent. Post it here or email it to me at thughes86@googlemail.co.uk

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j135/gavinprint/ServiceHistoryresize.jpg

[L23 NSX]

Tom,

I read this thread with interest, especially the why do you want an nsx bit. I agree with some of the comments in that the NSX was all about engineering excellence.

Honda is the worlds largest engine maker and widely regarded as an innovative business with projects running from Asimo or the Hondajet to a lawnmower. The NSX was the car equivalent of Honda showcasing all of its scientific and engineering expertise and I think one of the quotes from the owners manual sums it up quite well.

" The NSX contains the highest level of automotive technology currently available. Your aliminium bodied NSX was built at a new facility dedicated exclusively to its manufacture. The staff at this factory has made very effort to produce the most thoroughly tested and trouble free super sports car on the market. Honda's goal is to provide you, the discriminating sports car enthusiast, with the most comfortable, versitile exotic mid engine car ever produced"

For me the NSX arrived and showed the establishment how it should be done. I've always wanted one as I've always thought its a car for drivers who understand that driving innovation can be literal.

Look forward to the article!!

[Senninha]

Apart from offering my NSX as per the original post I hadn't followed this thread


MarkC wrote in the Autocar thread: On a related note I picked up a copy of Practical Performance Car (PPC) on my travels and noted that next months edition has an article/buyers guide on the NSX.

I hope he got to see a car in the flesh and indeed get a ride in one before writing the piece.

Cheers
Mark

Would appear Tom took on board a lot of the info you guys supplied and were discussed at the shoot when writing the article.

Apart from the photos I did my bit to ensure real world valuations were recorded in the article.

Sadly time got away from us to provide a drive on the day. The photographer was very thorough and complementary of the NSX when comparing it to his own 355.

regards, Paul

[markc]

I finally got around to picking up this issue.

A better than average article really. The author (Tom Hughes) resisted the temptation to lift too many quotes from old articles, particularly as he didn't get to drive a car, and most of the advice was sound.
The editors guilotine fell rather abruptly though so the article doesn't have a round up or conclusion.

Your car looks great in the pics Paul :) but given all the mods you've made I can't believe you still have the standard steering wheel on it ;)

Cheers

Mark

[Senninha]

The editors guilotine fell rather abruptly though so the article doesn't have a round up or conclusion.

Your car looks great in the pics Paul :) but given all the mods you've made I can't believe you still have the standard steering wheel on it ;)

Cheers

Mark

Hi Mark,

Thanx for the kind words, the photo's came out well and the car cleaned up well considering the rain and hail I drove through to get to Derby.

I dont mind the wheel but unless someone can find an airbag / cruise compatible option I think I'll be sticking with it .... plus I dont want to touch anything on the interior in case I get carried away ..... :rolleyes:

Think I'll stick to keeping it well cleaned for now ...

regards, Paul

[britlude]

paul... once you've finished cleaning it, i'm sure you'll get £12k... where do you want me to send the cheque....? :)