Lotus Evora - the new NSX?

[sassthathoopie]

Initial reviews for the new Lotus Evora are out and general consensus is very positive

http://www.drivers-republic.com/features/
http://knol.google.com/k/andy-lock-farm/lotus-evora-uk-launch-and-reviews/2w20zjb2fndy5/9#view (links to loads of articles)

The latest issue of EVO gives it 5 stars and a win over the Cayman S and Farbio GTS350.

There are more than a few similarities with the NSX

Kerb weight 1382kg, power 276 BHP, giving 203 BHP/ton

3.5 litre V6 with DOHC, 4v per cylinder, and VVT-i

A mid engined, mid size coupe designed to offer driving pleasure without sacrificing practicality or long distance comfort.

All reviews mention the exceptional ride/handling balance.

Richard Meaden in DR "The Evora's engine note is uncannily like the Honda NSX"

Finally check out the last page of the DR article. A rear hero shot of a red Evora - with a spoiler design that is very familiar!

Has anyone driven one yet?

[Minch]

Love it! I was sooo close to puttinvg my name down for one of these when they first came on the market last year . . . £4k deposit but was too concerned about the residuals :(

[DamianW]

Yeah like it, but slightly put off by the off-the-shelf engine which has slightly less power than my old NSX - bit poor by current standards. Bet it drives well though, and could be perfect for someone like me that had to give up the sports car when the little one arrived...

[NoelWatson]

Bell and Colvill are just down the road from me, so if anyone wants to meet up there I'm keen

http://www.bell-colvill.co.uk/

[Sublime]

Yeah like it, but slightly put off by the off-the-shelf engine which has slightly less power than my old NSX - bit poor by current standards. Bet it drives well though, and could be perfect for someone like me that had to give up the sports car when the little one arrived...

Wouldn't worry about off-the-shelf engines, Lotus alter the ECU, etc., to suit the car they are putting them in, so they are not the same beast any more. Besides, their thing is minimal weight, having slightly less power is not an issue, if you want exceptional handling / acceleration and not too worried about doing excessive top end speed they are perfect.

Have fun,
Steven

[WhyOne?]

Wouldn't worry about off-the-shelf engines..........

I agree!

Infact one of the things which made Lotus ownership a real consideration for me was when they switched from Rover to Toyota engines. The NSX ultimately got the vote over an Exige S last time around.

I certainly wouldn't trust Lotus to build engines!

I do like the Evora though!

[NoelWatson]

I agree!

Infact one of the things which made Lotus ownership a real consideration for me was when they switched from Rover to Toyota engines. The NSX ultimately got the vote over an Exige S last time around.

I certainly wouldn't trust Lotus to build engines!

I do like the Evora though!

Engine compares unfavourably compared to Cayman in this week's Autocar. And I have driven the new Cayman and it sounds nowhere near as nice as the NSX

[Sublime]

Engine compares unfavourably compared to Cayman in this week's Autocar.

Japanese engines in my experience don't tend to let go, Porsche on the other hand have some serious design flaws in their flat six, I caught the one on my Boxster before the small rubber seal completely failed and catastrophically destroyed the engine. They couldn't guarantee the replacement since the problem lied in where it was situated. Strangely I trusted my Rover powered Elise's engine more than the Porsche's and now they use Toyota lumps I would have no worries in running one. However, the NSX is too iconic to me to not own one of them before I take up a Lotus again.

[NSX 2000]

Bell and Colvill are just down the road from me, so if anyone wants to meet up there I'm keen

http://www.bell-colvill.co.uk/

Sounds like a plan to me. Do they actually have one yet?
On a side note I use to take various Lotus and Subaru there to get serviced.

[forumadmin]

Interesting discussion...The Evora is the new NSX, or the Audi R8 is the new NSX?

The Evora matches the stats of the NSX, except is has four seats. Surely new cars should be a step forward?

Surely a car in today's world needs to have more than this to be able to sell?

[Sublime]

Surely a car in today's world needs to have more than this to be able to sell?

Depends on how much someone believes they need, I'd want my sports car to make me feel like a driving god every time I took it out, not interested in out and out speed, etc., you always meet someone with something a little bit more powerful when you least want to, I like being more skilled driving the underdog and embarrassing them :D?

[sassthathoopie]

If memory serves Lotus only plans to build 4 or 5000 of them. This is a fraction of Cayman sales, so I'm fairly confident they will have no difficulty shifting them.

Re more power - who really needs a 0-60 time of less than 5 seconds?

The Evora will be comfortably amongst the fastest 1% of all road traffic, with a ride/handling balance that will allow it to be better point to point than at least half of that 1%.

Plus presumably good economy and carbon figures?

[TheSebringOne]

This is an important car for Lotus, but whether its the new NSX I'm not sure. It may share alot of similarities in bhp, weight, aceleration & dimensions, its different in other ways. Alot of road testers states its an great drivers car, but you would not expect less from Lotus. From certain angles it looks great, but still not sure of it from full side on? In fact the NSX lines are nicer from the side IMHO. Maybe if I see it in the flesh it may change my views? As for those called optional rear seats, if your kids had no legs, then its a must! Just my 2p

[TheQuietOne]

you always meet someone with something a little bit more powerful when you least want to, I like being more skilled driving the underdog and embarrassing them :D?

Funny tonight driving home from work with the NSX on the front lawn (don't ask) I came up against a black R8 and a grey 09 GTR! Sadly I was in the 1.5l diesel Scenic, I did show them a thing or two about MPG however - don't think they were matching 70mpg with the mirrors out! :D

[Sublime]

From certain angles it looks great, but still not sure of it from full side on? In fact the NSX lines are nicer from the side IMHO. Maybe if I see it in the flesh it may change my views?

It's definitely not the prettiest but at least it stands out from the crowd. The NSX on the other hand set what a mid-engined sports car should look like for me, nothing else is quite going to cut it in my opinion :).

[Sublime]

Funny tonight driving home from work with the NSX on the front lawn (don't ask) I came up against a black R8 and a grey 09 GTR! Sadly I was in the 1.5l diesel Scenic, I did show them a thing or two about MPG however - don't think they were matching 70mpg with the mirrors out! :D

Nice going, do you reckon they even managed a 10th of your MPG!

[NoelWatson]

Sounds like a plan to me. Do they actually have one yet?
On a side note I use to take various Lotus and Subaru there to get serviced.

Just phoned - apparently two weeks away

[NoelWatson]

Just phoned - apparently two weeks away

But Tumbridge Wells have a GT-R demonstator available......

[Senninha]

Just phoned - apparently two weeks away

Their Autocar add says the car is available for testing .. :no:

[Ewan]

When Autocar did their Evora review the other week, it certainly sounded very similar in character to the NSX - lightweight (relatively), somewhat underpowered (compared to the immediate "competition") but handling balance, gearchange etc all make up for it and the car's surprisingly quicker than the figures would suggest.

I wonder if it's special enough to warrant a £50k price tag, though? It looks too much like a big Elise in some pictures to be truly one of a kind, and Autocar were saying the build quality (of the interior at least) wasn't quite up there with the rest of the class...

I'd love to see an 02+ NSX and an Evora, in similar colours, parked next to each other...

[markc]

Interesting discussion...The Evora is the new NSX, or the Audi R8 is the new NSX?

Surely new cars should be a step forward?


It may share alot of similarities in bhp, weight, acceleration & dimensions, it's different in other ways. A lot of road testers state that it's a great drivers car, but you would not expect any less from Lotus?

For me the Evora is a very interesting car and a welcome departure from the recent trend of more power, more "technology" and more weight that most new performance cars (GT-R, Astons, AMG Mercs, even Ferrari etc) have pursued for the past few years. However, it is, as TheSebringOne says, what you'd expect from Lotus and therefore not the new NSX in respect of a mainstream manufacturer building a new sports/supercar that outperforms the established players offerings in a sector that that manufacturer has never played in before. The R8 did exactly that.

The Evora is almost too close to the NSX's spec to be considered a considerable step forward. IF it had the spec is does but was 250kgs lighter then maybe it would be a step forward but it actually weighs more than the NSX. It doesn't really add any toys either save for the silly sat nav etc screen (I hate these screen in cars.. grrrr) and lacks dry sump lubrication and an LSD which are IMHO key features of a true performance car. A modest 2009 upgrade to the NSX might see it competitive to the Evora?.. but it'd still be a Honda!

I do think the Evora engine is a bit of a let down. The power and torque figures are good enough but a 7K rpm limit is a bit too low for a full on sports machine these days when Porsche and Ferrari are hitting 8.5K rpm (and the R8 8.2K) :)

I do like the 2+2 arrangement though. When I had my old 993 it might of only been useful for carrying people (short distances) a couple of times in the 5 years I had it, but the extra space afforded by vestigial rear seats is flexible and useful. Compared to the NSX, the Evora packaging has traded small rear seats for boot space, which can hold a single set of golf clubs where the NSX can swallow 2 sets. I think the small rear seats are more useful than a bigger boot.

By the way the NSX has been known to seat 3 people for a very short distances (see pic... yes that is me) :)

Noel/Paul, let me know if you're meeting up at Bell & Collvill and I'll try to join you. I also had an Impreza Turbo (Prodrive'd) supplied by them back in the day :)

Cheers

Mark

[NSX 2000]

Mark, I'm not sure which is worse, you trying to get in behind the front seat or that shirt :eek::laugh::eek:

[Silver Surfer]

No question.....the shirt!! :laugh:

SS

[AR]

I actually quite like the shirt. :)

[markc]

Mark, I'm not sure which is worse, you trying to get in behind the front seat or that shirt :eek::laugh::eek:

Hee Hee, that pic was taken at Le Mans. The Hawaiian shirts are part of our team strategy to identify ourselves on TV during the pit lane invasion at the end of the race (Le Mans 24Hr).
It works too. We've been able see oursleves on telly and make ourselves out in pictures in the press coverage that follows each years event.

So there is an excuse for the bad shirt... even tho' I do secretly like it as well ;)

Cheers

Mark

[Senninha]

Mark,

What you need is a nice pair of comfy leather electric seats for extra leg room ;)

Not sure whats happening with B&C ... I'm heading to Castle Combe so may be better in the afternoon if it does happen

regards, Paul


........By the way the NSX has been known to seat 3 people for a very short distances (see pic... yes that is me) :)

Noel/Paul, let me know if you're meeting up at Bell & Collvill and I'll try to join you. I also had an Impreza Turbo (Prodrive'd) supplied by them back in the day :)

Cheers

Mark

[NoelWatson]

Their Autocar add says the car is available for testing .. :no:

And EvoraForum have a pic of one there. Maybe it is being used for promotion before letting the punters have a spin

[NoelWatson]

And EvoraForum have a pic of one there. Maybe it is being used for promotion before letting the punters have a spin

They certainly have one now, as I've just been to have a look at it. Didn't go for a drive as I had the little man with me. A lot more headroom than the NSX, and there is no need to have the seat all the way back. We should organise a meet one morning.

[Senninha]

......... A lot more headroom than the NSX, and there is no need to have the seat all the way back. We should organise a meet one morning.

That will be becoz Mike Kimberley is 6'+

Make it happen Noel!

regards, Paul

[Nick Graves]

For me the Evora is a very interesting car and a welcome departure from the recent trend of more power, more "technology" and more weight that most new performance cars (GT-R, Astons, AMG Mercs, even Ferrari etc) have pursued for the past few years. However, it is, as TheSebringOne says, what you'd expect from Lotus and therefore not the new NSX in respect of a mainstream manufacturer building a new sports/supercar that outperforms the established players offerings in a sector that that manufacturer has never played in before. The R8 did exactly that.

The Evora is almost too close to the NSX's spec to be considered a considerable step forward. IF it had the spec is does but was 250kgs lighter then maybe it would be a step forward but it actually weighs more than the NSX. It doesn't really add any toys either save for the silly sat nav etc screen (I hate these screen in cars.. grrrr) and lacks dry sump lubrication and an LSD which are IMHO key features of a true performance car. A modest 2009 upgrade to the NSX might see it competitive to the Evora?.. but it'd still be a Honda!

I do think the Evora engine is a bit of a let down. The power and torque figures are good enough but a 7K rpm limit is a bit too low for a full on sports machine these days when Porsche and Ferrari are hitting 8.5K rpm (and the R8 8.2K) :)

I do like the 2+2 arrangement though. When I had my old 993 it might of only been useful for carrying people (short distances) a couple of times in the 5 years I had it, but the extra space afforded by vestigial rear seats is flexible and useful. Compared to the NSX, the Evora packaging has traded small rear seats for boot space, which can hold a single set of golf clubs where the NSX can swallow 2 sets. I think the small rear seats are more useful than a bigger boot.

By the way the NSX has been known to seat 3 people for a very short distances (see pic... yes that is me) :)

Noel/Paul, let me know if you're meeting up at Bell & Collvill and I'll try to join you. I also had an Impreza Turbo (Prodrive'd) supplied by them back in the day :)

Cheers

Mark

The Evora's hard points are extremely close to the Honda HSC prototype of 2004. It's also relatively a lot cheaper then the NSX. So it's sort of a replacement from below.

This is fortunate, because personally I cannot stand that most new cars are too big, heavy dull and lifeless. For me, the NSX was about as big as cars can sensibly get on Hertfordshire's awful (but fun!) backroads. The Evora is for when all the NSXs are in firm hands and has space for the dog!

I would argue that the new Esprit (Evora architecture with possibly a Lexus V8 or V10) is probably Lotus' new NSX. The turbo was often compared when they were concurrent.

[Silver Surfer]

The R8 V10 seems to be the grown up NSX IMO.

SS

[mutley]

Just watched TopGear which has the new Lotus on it. it is a fabulous looking car, not sure about the rear seats though.

Jim

[TheSebringOne]

Having seen TG too and further to my reservations on its looks from certain angles, I now agree it looks better when on the move. Amazing bit when Jezza goes off road! I can't believe it, that the Stig was in fact Michael Schumacher all along !? :D

[jaytip]

I can't believe it, that the Stig was in fact Michael Schumacher all along !? :D
I don't buy it. Ben Collins admitted he was the stig while the show was off the air so the producers had to do something.Look what they did to Perry Mcarthy(was that his name?) when he admitted he was the first stig.I think the Scumacher thing was just a publicity stunt.

[Ewan]

Hats off to the TG team for simultaneously announcing they were going to de-helmet the Stig, and then doing so with someone who is so patently NOT the Stig.

There were only 30 FXXs made, and 29 of them are red - the final one was given to Schumacher, and I guess he's the only one that would have driven it. Also, the fact that he was 7-8 seconds clear at the top of the fastest lap times shows that, yes, the FXX may be the quickest thing around, but I bet the driver has a lot to do with the time too :)

[Sublime]

I got sent an invite to test drive an Evora this Saturday, the Lotus "roadshow" is at my nearest dealership.

Have fun,
Steven

[Nick Graves]

Is that Castle Lotus in Mountfitchet? Your location seems a bit dispersed, like an electron!

[Sublime]

Is that Castle Lotus in Mountfitchet? Your location seems a bit dispersed, like an electron!

Yes, that's the one, nice bunch of people at Castle Lotus and a really good twisty road between us.

I'm right on the border of the two counties, sometimes it's easier to describe it as one rather than the other depending on whom you are talking too :).

[NoelWatson]

Evora in this week's Autocar Handling day. Won't give the game away yu saying who won, but was interested in the lap times. You may recall the NSX was tested in 2002 at Goodwood, so I thought I would attempt to see how the Evora and NSX compared (ignoring the fact that the particular NSX appeared to be optimised)

I don't think we can take outright lap times as they were set on different days (has the track changed?)

In 2002, the NSX was 2.1 seconds ahead of the Mk1 RS

http://www.fastestlaps.com/track68.html

whereas the Evora was 1.5 seconds ahead of the Mk2 RS

Compare the two Focii

http://www.fastestlaps.com/car45c462fdc7c6f.html

http://www.fastestlaps.com/car486e32318475a.html

and it would appear that the Mk2 is around 1 second quicker over that duration of track (Hockenheim and Serres)

so it would appear the the Evora has the edge on lap time, but not speed.

[JQD84983]

Just watched TopGear which has the new Lotus on it. it is a fabulous looking car, not sure about the rear seats though.

Jim

Having seen one close up at Silverstone I am far from convinced. I don't hate the shape but it does not move me enough to part with 50 odd grand.

Personally I prefer the Exige's looks.

[AR]

Not, the new NSX.

Near the end of production the NSX became a FAT cow with a superb chassis.When the NSX came out in 1990 it was ahead of the game and punching with the best.

The 2002 NSX should have had at the very least a 3.8 L.

[NSX 2000]

Not, the new NSX.

Near the end of production the NSX became a FAT cow with a superb chassis.When the NSX came out in 1990 it was ahead of the game and punching with the best.

The 2002 NSX should have had at the very least a 3.8 L.

I thought that the 02+ cars weighed less than the first NSX's.

I'm not sure if you have noticed but Honda do things in a different way to other car manufactures, they will stay with the same size engine for a lot longer and will use better technology to get more out of it rather than just increase engine size. Take the BMW M3 started out with a 2.5 litre 4 pot now it has a 4 litre V8.

[gumball]

The NSX is a really nice looking, innovative and iconic car, the Lotus is none of these.

[Senninha]

The 2002 NSX should have had at the very least a 3.8 L.

My understanding is that it was the cost of a new engine development program that killed off the NSX. It simply did not cost in for Honda to redevelop the V6 to meet forth coming emissions so the NSX ended life, pretty much as it had begun.

I also thought it had lost weight even though it gained structural stiffness and improved aero packages over its lifetime.

At the end of the day, saying Honda should have done various things to the NSX is fine but I'd suggest very few of us will ever truly extract the full potential of what we have been delivered.

Add to this, that if Honda had evolved over time the NSX like the 911, would it be the rare and desirable car it is today ... probably not.

regards, Paul

[AR]

I'd suggest very few of us will ever truly extract the full potential of what we have been delivered.

Paul,

We are working on extracting thatpotential ATM!

Cheers, a very tired and covered in enfine grime and grease :),

Ary

[JQD84983]

[QUOTE=

At the end of the day, saying Honda should have done various things to the NSX is fine but I'd suggest very few of us will ever truly extract the full potential of what we have been delivered.


regards, Paul[/QUOTE]

Paul,

Could not agree more.

A lot of the performance comparisons are just pub talk. For me this is a phenomenal car and everyone who rides in mine is blown away by the performance v practicality.

[AR]

Paul,

Could not agree more.

A lot of the performance comparisons are just pub talk. For me this is a phenomenal car and everyone who rides in mine is blown away by the performance v practicality.

I know your car and is very nice but it is alot heavier than mine, :) but each his own as they say. To me the stock ( no H/I/E ) is underpowered by TODAY's standards.

[TheSebringOne]

I totally agree with the two Pauls! Firstly Honda smaller engine philosphy is now coming full circle as all the big manufacturers are now going for smaller engines but turbo charged or direct injection, eg next gen M5.

Honda in addition to not wanting to invest in new tooling to make the NSX meet latest emissions, they were losing money on every single NSX made, especially when the 02+ was cut by £10K.

[DamianW]

Apparently the Evora won some handling test in Autocar. It did a lap of 1:34 round Goodwood.

An NSX 3.2 did it in 1:31.8

I know laptimes don't mean all that much, but really. I expected progress. And I've also heard stories that the rear seats really are totally useless, even for kids. Which begs the question: whats the point? I'm not sure I get it any more. I'd rather have an old NSX.

http://www.fastestlaps.com/track68.html

Edit: damn I was too slow!

[JQD84983]

I know your car and is very nice but it is alot heavier than mine, :) but each his own as they say. To me the stock ( no H/I/E ) is underpowered by TODAY's standards.

I agree each to his own.

But what does by todays standards count for? We still get 0-60 in 5 seconds ish and plenty of power for overtaking coupled with sublime handling in dry and wet with a standard NSX. Would a 430 or Murcelago drive as well over all uk conditions as the NSX?

AMG has just reduced the overall power of the new E63 AMG because they believe you cannot get the power down.

NSX is a little different as the chassis was good enough to accept more power IMHO.

[NoelWatson]

AMG has just reduced the overall power of the new E63 AMG because they believe you cannot get the power down.



I thought it was up from 507 to 518bhp?

[Senninha]

Just for the record .. my comment was in relation to the drivers ability to exploit a standard NSX, rather than modifying the NSX.

As written elsewhere, I've been out a few times with a variaty of machines on Pistonhead runs. Each and every time I am approached by owners of other machines who are simply amazed at how quick the NSX can cover UK tarmac. Many of the later machines have been set up for good track use and as such dont have the chassis compliance of the NSX.

In addition, when you remind them that the NSX doesn't need trick this and computer that to actually go round a corner they look even more surprised by its capability. It is this reason that I wont buy another BMW. For all the claims of being the best drivers cars, if you switch off all the computers, IMO you are far from having a drivers cars. They are great for Tiff to go power sliding in, but in the real world, where you and I live and drive, chassis tuning has become a lost art without electrics.

I've not driven an Evora. I did own an Elise S2 135 for a year and 20k miles. It was great. I opted for the wider front tyres to dial out the factory understeer (designed in for the FWD generation). IMO there is little else that can inspire confidence like the Elise. The NSX is pretty close but youare aware of the extra weight when out playing. I'm guessing it is the legendary chassis development skills and lack of computers that may be drawing some parallel to the NSX.

As for the down sizing of power/engines, this bhp/torgue race the germans have been running has always seemed quite pointless for anything other than pub bragging rights as JQD84983 says.

In my younger days I tuned for fast road, a Sunbeam ti. My guidance came from the mechanic for a yet to succeed Jimmy Macrae. He said start from the tarmac. If you sort the tyres, the brakes, the suspension your car wil be quicker and safer as well as more drivable. Then, once you can exploit it and if you feel the need, think about the power.

Wise words that seem to be lost by many.

regards, Paul

[AR]

Just for the record .. my comment was in relation to the drivers ability to exploit a standard NSX, rather than modifying the NSX.

I knew where it was aimed I was just messing with you. :)

Does anybody really believe this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5GqAEbPNJU&feature=fvw

Cheers,

AR

[TheSebringOne]

Ary, think this has been debated before, you know these Japanese shoot outs are always bias to the NSX R. I think if the test was longer in distance the RS4 would have caught up & pass maybe?

[NSXGB]

In addition, when you remind them that the NSX doesn't need trick this and computer that to actually go round a corner they look even more surprised by its capability. It is this reason that I wont buy another BMW. For all the claims of being the best drivers cars, if you switch off all the computers, IMO you are far from having a drivers cars. They are great for Tiff to go power sliding in, but in the real world, where you and I live and drive, chassis tuning has become a lost art without electrics.



Wise words. Was passenger in my mates new GTR last night for a wizz round the lanes. Awseome power, handling, etc. but he is selling it because it does not feel like he is actually driving it!

[Silver Surfer]

I knew where it was aimed I was just messing with you. :)

Does anybody really believe this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5GqAEbPNJU&feature=fvw

Cheers,

AR

http://audisrs.com/about4704.html&highlight=

Here's the debate from the otherside....still alot of support! ;):)

SS

[NSXGB]

http://audisrs.com/about4704.html&highlight=

Here's the debate from the otherside....still alot of support! ;):)

SS

That's a funny read. The NSX might be faster BUT "what if it rains or you have to put the kids in the back". :)

[JQD84983]

That's a funny read. The NSX might be faster BUT "what if it rains or you have to put the kids in the back". :)

Then you leave your NSX in the garage and use your other car. As much as I like RS4 and the like they are not sports cars.

Gotta love that Type R though. ;) Holy moly that really shifts.

[AR]

Well this engine surely does not look stock!

[Silver Surfer]

Well this engine surely does not look stock!

Errr..., What's not stock about it?? :redface:

SS

[NSXGB]

Errr..., What's not stock about it?? :redface:

SS

Tsuchiya tuned?

Don't recognise the circled parts in the photo....

6071

[NSX 2000]

Tsuchiya tuned?

Don't recognise the circled parts in the photo....

6071

Need to ask Kaz what they are.

[AR]

To me it looks like some sort of aftermarket ignition system and also the fuel return area looks slightly different. So perhaps it is a high compresion, cammed, etc engine.

[Nick Graves]

Just for the record .. my comment was in relation to the drivers ability to exploit a standard NSX, rather than modifying the NSX.

As written elsewhere, I've been out a few times with a variaty of machines on Pistonhead runs. Each and every time I am approached by owners of other machines who are simply amazed at how quick the NSX can cover UK tarmac. Many of the later machines have been set up for good track use and as such dont have the chassis compliance of the NSX.

In addition, when you remind them that the NSX doesn't need trick this and computer that to actually go round a corner they look even more surprised by its capability. It is this reason that I wont buy another BMW. For all the claims of being the best drivers cars, if you switch off all the computers, IMO you are far from having a drivers cars. They are great for Tiff to go power sliding in, but in the real world, where you and I live and drive, chassis tuning has become a lost art without electrics.

I've not driven an Evora. I did own an Elise S2 135 for a year and 20k miles. It was great. I opted for the wider front tyres to dial out the factory understeer (designed in for the FWD generation). IMO there is little else that can inspire confidence like the Elise. The NSX is pretty close but youare aware of the extra weight when out playing. I'm guessing it is the legendary chassis development skills and lack of computers that may be drawing some parallel to the NSX.

As for the down sizing of power/engines, this bhp/torgue race the germans have been running has always seemed quite pointless for anything other than pub bragging rights as JQD84983 says.

In my younger days I tuned for fast road, a Sunbeam ti. My guidance came from the mechanic for a yet to succeed Jimmy Macrae. He said start from the tarmac. If you sort the tyres, the brakes, the suspension your car wil be quicker and safer as well as more drivable. Then, once you can exploit it and if you feel the need, think about the power.

Wise words that seem to be lost by many.

regards, Paul

That sooo much concurs with my thoughts, it's scary!

I've not yet driven the Evora, but it does seem slightly to undershoot the NSX in everything from Cx, bulk, BQ, prettiness, performance, etc. Not to say it's probably the only modern car I really could warm to (depending on that drive!) and it's a Lotus.

However, I still intrinsically prefer a poxy old Honda! That's progress for you...

[Sublime]

That sooo much concurs with my thoughts, it's scary!

I've not yet driven the Evora, but it does seem slightly to undershoot the NSX in everything from Cx, bulk, BQ, prettiness, performance, etc. Not to say it's probably the only modern car I really could warm to (depending on that drive!) and it's a Lotus.

However, I still intrinsically prefer a poxy old Honda! That's progress for you...

Lotus's are the only modern cars that are ever going to come close to what the NSX achieved, they just need to obtain the magic of that Honda.

[NoelWatson]

Evora tested in this week's Autocar

0-60: 5.4 seconds
0-100: 13 seconds

Think I could walk quicker. Autocar insist on comparing the numbers to the S1 Cayman, and they also claim that the Evora has direct injection.

[Papalazarou]

Saw an Evora at Silverstone. Thought it looked flimsy and plasticy. I'm sure it's very quick and handles great, but it felt cheap after the NSX.

Can't see the justification for the high prices of Lotus cars. They use cheap engineering processes, cheap engines, cheap ancineries and you still end up paying £44K for an Exige S.

I guess it's an inprovement on the 80's though where they were using Mariner light clusters and Allegro door handles, terible ergonomics and badly fitting panels. But we love them because James Bond drove one out of the sea once?!

Don't mean to slate it, just thought it was a load of rubbish and I don't think we should be making allowances for sub-standard product just because there's a certain heritage.

If we're going to compare the NSX favourably against a current vehicle, it should at least share or be close to same quality of construction.

By the way, that goes for Ferrari too; fancy selling a car for £100K that developed cracks in front of the B pillars 10K miles into ownership. I always loved the 355, but four out of the six cars I saw the other week had this fault.




Cheers,


James.


Warning: this is an after-work post and may offend.

[AR]

By the way, that goes for Ferrari too; fancy selling a car for £100K that developed cracks in front of the B pillars 10K miles into ownership. I always loved the 355, but four out of the six cars I saw the other week had this fault.




Cheers,


James.




Also add the cracked manifolds and the electrical problems.

[JQD84983]

Saw an Evora at Silverstone. Thought it looked flimsy and plasticy. I'm sure it's very quick and handles great, but it felt cheap after the NSX.

Can't see the justification for the high prices of Lotus cars. They use cheap engineering processes, cheap engines, cheap ancineries and you still end up paying £44K for an Exige S.

I guess it's an inprovement on the 80's though where they were using Mariner light clusters and Allegro door handles, terible ergonomics and badly fitting panels. But we love them because James Bond drove one out of the sea once?!

Don't mean to slate it, just thought it was a load of rubbish and I don't think we should be making allowances for sub-standard product just because there's a certain heritage.

If we're going to compare the NSX favourably against a current vehicle, it should at least share or be close to same quality of construction.

By the way, that goes for Ferrari too; fancy selling a car for £100K that developed cracks in front of the B pillars 10K miles into ownership. I always loved the 355, but four out of the six cars I saw the other week had this fault.

You have to speak as you find James and having had first hand experience of the marina door handled Lotus's that my dad owned over an Exel, Exel SE, Turbo HC, Turbo facelift and Turbo SE through the 80's and early 90's they were no where near as bad as their reputation suggests.

From memory 1 clutch thrust bearing and an electric window motor over all the cars he owned. Also in there day were a great looking car and nothing came close to the handling.

The NSX moved things on and I too would take a late NSX than a new Evora, it does not appeal to me enough to part with 60K, but I still have a soft spot for the Lotus brand. Some of the finest chassis ever produced IMHO

Cheers

John

[Papalazarou]

Thanks for the balanced views guys. Just fancied a bit of a rant. If I'm honest I still have a soft spot for some of the old lotus's. I just think that they seem to get away with a lot. but then again they're not the only ones.

Cheers,



James.

[AR]

Thanks for the balanced views guys. Just fancied a bit of a rant. If I'm honest I still have a soft spot for some of the old lotus's. I just think that they seem to get away with a lot. but then again they're not the only ones.

Cheers,



James.


Best thing about recent Lotus is the ZR1 and Carlton!

[Senninha]

I was looking forward to seeing the Evora but was disapointedd when it appeared at the last London motor show. As James says, it just doesn't look of a quiality to justify its (IMO) excessive pricing.

As a Lotus supporter and ex owner I have watched as prices have crept ever higher.

For me, £8-£12k on an Elise is fine, but £30k Elises are simply too dear.

Back to the Evora .. Its not a design that flows or makes me want to have a second look. If only they could of rejuvenated the M250 design over the current chassis (the bit Lotus always get so very right!!)

http://www.sandsmuseum.com/cars/elise/information/press/magazine/magazine2001/m250gold.jpg

http://www.sandsmuseum.com/cars/elise/information/press/magazine/magazine2001/m250rear.jpg

http://www.sandsmuseum.com/cars/elise/information/press/magazine/magazine2001/inside250.jpg

I wont be paying near to £60k for any Lotus.

As for the tales of woe that always come up, I would challenge the reputation. Mine was a 135sport and driven as intended whenever conditions allowed. I covered 20k miles from new in a year and it never missed a beat ... and I'd have that car back today if it was offered to me!

regards, Paul

[JQD84983]

Just found this Autocar clip on You Tube

http://www.youtube.com/user/autocar#play/uploads/10/rsw_aiXr-I0

Autocar have voted it the best handling car up against some mighty competition.

[Nick Graves]

Actually, I think I've found the 'Next NSX'! The McLaren MP4 12C...

Now I get annoyed by vacuous 'it looks like a...' comments every time a new vehicle is announced, but the passing resemblance to the HSC and the very reminiscent interior design (IS that steering wheel/instrument pack out of a Civic or something?) is probably more than coincidence. Moreover, the carbon tub, advanced engine and chassis, plus all the luxury FREDs you could shake an AVO meter at, are very close to the NSX's philisophy.

Nearly as eye-wateringly expensive as the NSX was at first, too!

[markc]

Actually, I think I've found the 'Next NSX'! The McLaren MP4 12C...

Now I get annoyed by vacuous 'it looks like a...' comments every time a new vehicle is announced, but the passing resemblance to the HSC and the very reminiscent interior design (IS that steering wheel/instrument pack out of a Civic or something?) is probably more than coincidence. Moreover, the carbon tub, advanced engine and chassis, plus all the luxury FREDs you could shake an AVO meter at, are very close to the NSX's philisophy.

Nearly as eye-wateringly expensive as the NSX was at first, too!

Ahh ha, great minds think alike Nick, in slightly differant places :)

See Paul's (NSX2000) thread here... http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/testvb/showthread.php?p=62169#post62169