What should James add to his CV?

[Senninha]

Following on from the 'Not Gone' thread and the passing of James' much loved and over polished LBBP Coupe, he has a problem .....
.... what does he buy to fill the space in his garage, and upon which to deploy his vast detailing skills, not to mention the Sunday blasts and occasional track days.

James enjoys his driving and is being lured by the 911 GT3. But I think he could do better. In fact I think he could do much better many times over.

So here's my thinking. Instead of blowing upto £40k on a GT3, why not experience several performance cars. My theory is that you set a limit of £15k. You then search through the usual places looking for those icons of motoring that you simply could'nt afford/insure when you were younger.

The objective is to buy and sell without pouring loads of ££ into them, but to have for several mths, some of the great cars.

Here's a few I thought of;

Audi RS2 - http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1181596.htm

Quattro 20v - http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/445309.htm

M3 Evo - http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/445309.htm

M5 - http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1318958.htm

Summer special - http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1325470.htm

GT4 - http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/987301.htm

Cruiser - http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1305280.htm

WRC? - http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1204875.htm

Yes Please :) - http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1279923.htm

Gotta try 1 - http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1336545.htm

E55 - luxp barge - http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1336673.htm

and theres several more to play with ....

regards, Paul

[Papalazarou]

Wow Paul, you've really given this a lot of thought. Quite a lot more than me in fact.
I was doing a bit of reading about GT3's over the last couple of weeks and feel that although I'd like a GT3 and can afford to buy one, I'm not sure I could afford to run it, if used regularly on track. All the stuff I read says tyres, brake disks/pads, aligment, rads, bushes etc etc...I guess if you can't afford to buy it you can't afford to run it. NSX excluded. But Porsche is definitely closer to Ferrari than Honda in the running stakes. £90K car, £90K bills. Don't get me started on 996TT's.

Anyway, I'll have a good look at your list and give you my uninformed opinion.


Cheers,

James.

[AR]

Well I'll go in a different way.

Style, power and handling to compromise a Z06 and blow the doors off quite a lot off things on track and off.

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1331035.htm

[forumadmin]

So with a largish amount of cash to spend, why does no one suggest GTR?

[Papalazarou]

So with a largish amount of cash to spend, why does no one suggest GTR?

It's just outside my price range and I couldn't afford to run it on road and track. I've also heard they're not very involving. But, I've never driven one, so couldn't say.


Cheers,


James.

[markc]

Nice list Paul :)

I suspect some of the older stuff won't measure up to the legend/hype? As the saying goes "Never meet your hero's"... for fear of being disappointed. I quite fancy the M5 as a daily driver though.

I think if I were in James position I'd have to scratch the GT3 itch. What you lose on running cost you make back on depreciation, or possible lack of it. Just look at the current prices of 964/993RS. 5 years ago you could have had the 964RS for under £30K and the 993RS for under £40... not any more. My bet is that GT3's will do the same eventually so just hang on to it.

Cheers

Mark

[TheSebringOne]

I would have to agree with you Mark, James been having this GT3 itch for a very long time and so should scratch it! Also depreciation would be minimal too.

As for those on Paul's rather intereting list, I agree most are a " must own & driven " cars! The only one thats track orientated and with some creature comforts is the Exige S1.

[Papalazarou]

I'm thinking Exige S 240 or GT3.

I hate the idea of a plastic car with a four-pot after owning an NSX, but the lotus is great on track, cheap to run and readily available. I know I'm not going to get any nasty surprises either.
The Gt3 on the other hand is a serious car, in ways the Exige isn't. However, the £2500-3000 PA running costs really puts me off. In the two and a half years I owned my last NSX, nothing went wrong. No I lie, the rear brake light needed rewiring, but that was under warranty.

Anyway, I guess I'll see.

the other thing about the GT3 is that Porsche will no longer warranty independent traders cars. When you buy, you have to own the car for three months then get the 111 point check, then the warranty at £1500.

I agree with Mark though, the depreciation of the GT3 SHOULD be minimal or non-existent and running costs may/will offset this. The Lotus will lose 3-5K per year which is somewhere I don't want to go.

On a slightly different note, I often wondered why you don't see many 996TT's on OPC forcourts these days. Basically, it is because to get the car saleable, they have to spend somewhere in the region of £3-8K, hence they farm them out to the independents who sell them with a standard warranty or do the work themselves and sell them on.


Cheers,



James.

[JQD84983]

The GT3 I think will be an eye opener if you think Honda spares are expensive for the NSX. Also servicing costs.

My dad had a 928 back in 1980 and it was 400 quid for a service then.

The Lotus definitely appeals but I had real trouble getting in the thing. Thats what put me off buying one before the Honda.

Half the fun though is trying and looking.

[mutley]

Just throwing this our there, but how about an NA2 NSX-R??


C'mon James, you know, I know, bugger it we ALL know, you're not going to stay NSX-less for long.

Jim

[Ewan]

http://www.dubdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Limited-Production-Lotus-Exige-Scura-with-260HP1.jpg

:drool:

[Papalazarou]

Just throwing this our there, but how about an NA2 NSX-R??


C'mon James, you know, I know, bugger it we ALL know, you're not going to stay NSX-less for long.

Jim

I'm about £40k short I think ;-0. If I had the cash, I'd definitely do it. I'd probably be scared to use it though.

Ewan, the Scura looks pretty good, but if it's anything like other Lotus special editions, it'll depreciate like a stone.


Cheers, James.

[simonprelude]

http://www.vascki.de/TVR%20Sagaris%20-%201024x768.jpg

[Papalazarou]

Looks great Simon, when does yours arrive?


Cheers, James.

[Senninha]

.............. The Lotus will lose 3-5K per year which is somewhere I don't want to go............

Cheers,

James.

???? I have to strongly disagree James.

I owned an S2 Elise with the 135 sport pack. I bought it new (highest depreciation), stuck 20k miles (thats like 4 yrs ave Lotus mileage) and depreciation was £4.5k after 14 months.

You're looking at a previously owned Exige. There are less of these than Elise', and given how carefully you will buy, I'd be very surprised, if you use it as you have the NSX's if you lost much at all.

I think this is the other 'itch' you've been tempted to scratch. If you're worrying about running costs and reconditioning costs ahead of a future resale then this is the itch to scratch first. Then while you'rerre enjoying one the greatest track/road cars available, you can invest what you save on purchase to build up the cash pile you'll need for the GT3 itch.

Responding to Mark's verry valid comment about meeting your heroes, I think its valid. So i've thought about this a bit. Given your connections, why not refresh a few early ones, make a few ££'s into the process as a nice way to pay for the GT3 itch in a few years time?

Happy Hunting

Paul

[havoc]

I like Paul's idea.

If it helps at all, my "itches" would be:-

Evo VI TME
Caterfield / Dax Rush, plus a tow-car, trailer and a summer-full of trackdays! :D
Noble M12 something-or-another - Lotus-like handling with THAT power!?!
E39 M5 / S-Type R - completely different, but V8 waft-tastic (my version of Paul's E55, I guess)
Mk1 or 2 MX5 with forced induction - the stock engine is a dog, but blown I bet it'll be an awesome car!

...and possibly an Integrale, but that defeats the "not much money" concept! ;)

[Hagasan]

I like Paul's idea.

If it helps at all, my "itches" would be:-

Evo VI TME
Caterfield / Dax Rush, plus a tow-car, trailer and a summer-full of trackdays! :D
Noble M12 something-or-another - Lotus-like handling with THAT power!?!
E39 M5 / S-Type R - completely different, but V8 waft-tastic (my version of Paul's E55, I guess)
Mk1 or 2 MX5 with forced induction - the stock engine is a dog, but blown I bet it'll be an awesome car!

...and possibly an Integrale, but that defeats the "not much money" concept! ;)


Have owned both the Evo VI TME and Four Integrale EVO II's (three Special Editions) and never lost a penny on any of them....Fantastic cars in their own ways...The grale's have shot up in price this year being LHD and the Euro being quite strong...I'd like an Integrale again as a keeper!! Not the fastest by any stretch but fun to drive...

[Papalazarou]

???? I have to strongly disagree James.

I owned an S2 Elise with the 135 sport pack. I bought it new (highest depreciation), stuck 20k miles (thats like 4 yrs ave Lotus mileage) and depreciation was £4.5k after 14 months.

You're looking at a previously owned Exige. There are less of these than Elise', and given how carefully you will buy, I'd be very surprised, if you use it as you have the NSX's if you lost much at all.

Paul


If you bought a new Exige S now, you'd lose £15K in the first year Ahhhh!! Second hand 240's seem to be around the low 30's for a 08/09 car. Judging by residuals of 07 cars, these will lose between 3-5K in the next 12 months depending on purchase price.
If you buy the right spec at say 31K you might get 28K 12 months later.
It seems amazing to me that people are comfortable throwing £15K a year away on a car like this. The dealer I was talking to said a few of his customers do this every year and always choose the top spec. Crazy. R8 anyone?


Cheers,


James

[Senninha]

Sorry James,

You and anyone else that throws this sort of money at a Lotus needs a visit to the men in white coats!

I loved my Elise (and often get told to buy another one) and see the temptation of the Exige. But please listen carefully. A Lotus Exige is not worth more than early £20k's unless you want to burn money.

The one I proposed at the start of this thread was prices at £16.5k. From a stealer with OEM warranty that car will be yours for under £16k I'm sure. Enjoy it and add 5k miles and I'd be surprised if you couldn't close to £15k back.

From your post you seem aligned to the later S2 shape (which I do also prefer and had). So how about this one

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1275741.htm

£22k before you have a deal with them, warrantied and nice spec and IMO, it really is as much as you shoud be spending on a Lotus.

Dont forget, these things weigh in around 800kg, so whether the 190 or 240 hp variant, it isn't going to be slow.

If ithis was/is me in then I'd be looking at the ones around the £20k mark and spending some of the saved cash up at Hethel being taught how to get the very best out of this stunning little machine. It taught me a lot about the Elise and the laps I was given in the Exige still blow my mind to this very day!!

HTH, Paul



If you bought a new Exige S now, you'd lose £15K in the first year Ahhhh!! Second hand 240's seem to be around the low 30's for a 08/09 car. Judging by residuals of 07 cars, these will lose between 3-5K in the next 12 months depending on purchase price.
If you buy the right spec at say 31K you might get 28K 12 months later.
It seems amazing to me that people are comfortable throwing £15K a year away on a car like this. The dealer I was talking to said a few of his customers do this every year and always choose the top spec. Crazy. R8 anyone?

Cheers,

James

[markc]

Looks great Simon, when does yours arrive?

Cheers, James.

It is good picture (Sagaris)... I can almost smell the glue from here :)

Cheers

Mark

[TheSebringOne]

I have alway loved the shape of the Sag as its the last true TVR and was built well for a TVR and they are holding onto the value very well, just take a look at PH. Even though TVR have a certain reputation, the Sag may well be worth a try and if you're not happy, then sell it on and lose little in depreciation. :)

So Simon, is it true? :dunno:

[havoc]

I test-drove a 111R before getting the NSX...and in character it was a lot closer to the 'teg than the NSX, albeit with a very different weight-balance to the 'teg.

It was great at demolishing a B-road, but didn't feel quite as well-resolved as I'd expected - ride was crashier than either of my Hondas (17" rims w/ribbon-profiles), which surprised the hell out of me, and there was this odd 'clonk' through the steering (on a late-07-plate car driven this summer, so 2y.o.!). Quick, for sure, but probably not really any quicker than an S2000, so certainly no quicker than a 3.0 NSX.

It felt like a car you could spend a while learning, but didn't (for me) move the game on enough from my 'teg to warrant spending £20k on it...especially not when I was keeping the 'teg!


...so I guess I agree with Paul - they're not megabucks exotica, no matter where Lotus may be trying to stretch the model. Now an Evora or a Noble... :D

[Papalazarou]

Sorry James,

You and anyone else that throws this sort of money at a Lotus needs a visit to the men in white coats!

I loved my Elise (and often get told to buy another one) and see the temptation of the Exige. But please listen carefully. A Lotus Exige is not worth more than early £20k's unless you want to burn money.

The one I proposed at the start of this thread was prices at £16.5k. From a stealer with OEM warranty that car will be yours for under £16k I'm sure. Enjoy it and add 5k miles and I'd be surprised if you couldn't close to £15k back.

From your post you seem aligned to the later S2 shape (which I do also prefer and had). So how about this one

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1275741.htm

£22k before you have a deal with them, warrantied and nice spec and IMO, it really is as much as you shoud be spending on a Lotus.

Dont forget, these things weigh in around 800kg, so whether the 190 or 240 hp variant, it isn't going to be slow.

If ithis was/is me in then I'd be looking at the ones around the £20k mark and spending some of the saved cash up at Hethel being taught how to get the very best out of this stunning little machine. It taught me a lot about the Elise and the laps I was given in the Exige still blow my mind to this very day!!

HTH, Paul

The problem is that I've driven the 190 and a 220 (driving the 240 later this week) and once you've driven the SC car the standard car, although not slow, will never be the same.
I agree to a point that no Lotus is worth more than low 20's. perhaps even new.
However, I suppose it doesn't matter what I think something's really worth, it's what the market thinks it's worth.
On a slightly different tack, I always considered that GT3's were more saleable than NSX's, mnore excessible, but judging by recent NSX sales, I'm not so sure. In the last four weeks five NSX's have sold in the classified. Pretty good when you consider the time of year.

Of cars in your list, only one car really does it for me and that's the Integrale. Unfortunaltey the LHD things's a problem. I'd like to drive the 308, just to see how it goes and perhaps the Audi, but wouldn't want to own them. Statistically there's a time bombs in there somewhere.

Cheers,


James.

[Ewan]

so James - what did you get in the end? (I saw your "driving in my new car" post on the Spotted thread...)

cheers, Ewan

[m666 edd]

Yeah I like the way he makes us ask after planting a hint.

[Senninha]

Well therer was a nice GT3 in blue for sale thats now sold ... if this is the itch he has scratched ... even has a nice plate too ....

He's probably not answering as he'll be out cleaning it ;)

[Papalazarou]

so James - what did you get in the end? (I saw your "driving in my new car" post on the Spotted thread...)

cheers, Ewan

Decided I couldn't live with a GT3 on Exmoor roads, so I bought a .................Sorry, still not telling.

Cheers, James

[Senninha]

Decided I couldn't live with a GT3 on Exmoor roads, so I bought a .................Sorry, still not telling.

Cheers, James

Well its gotta be a Citreon C5 then you old g** ;)

[amo]

has to be a Citreon 2cv lol

made for each other

thx amo

[markc]

Well its gotta be a Citreon C5 then you old g** ;)


has to be a Citreon 2cv lol

made for each other

thx amo

Oi, I hope you chaps aren't knocking Citroen's. They're one of the motor industry's great innovators and have produced several groundbreaking (Traction Avant/DS/SM) cars.

I took my old CX out for a run and warm through yesterday and it made me smile a lot :)

Mark

[simonprelude]

Decided I couldn't live with a GT3 on Exmoor roads, so I bought a .................Sorry, still not telling.

Cheers, James

James is too embarrassed to tell everyone he only bought a C2/C4 as he's not man enough for a GT/Turbo ;)

[mutley]

Decided I couldn't live with a GT3 on Exmoor roads, so I bought a .................Sorry, still not telling.

Cheers, James

Oh come on, put us out of our misery or we'll be here for evermore trying to guess!!


Jim

[Papalazarou]

James is too embarrassed to tell everyone he only bought a C2/C4 as he's not man enough for a GT/Turbo ;)

Well you're a bundle of fun Simon!!

Actually it's a C2S.

Cheers,


James.

[simonprelude]

Well you're a bundle of fun Simon!!

Actually it's a C2S.

Cheers,


James.

As I said on the phone to you, I'd already posted that before talking to you :)

Good choice, will be good to see how much better than the 996 it is.

[markc]

Well you're a bundle of fun Simon!!

Actually it's a C2S.

Cheers,

James.

How are you dealing with having to admit you're a Porsche driver ;)

Mark

[AR]

He was a Porsche driver before, so he has experience. :)

Well chuffed for you mate, hope you enjoy it as much as the NSX (s).

[Papalazarou]

How are you dealing with having to admit you're a Porsche driver ;)

Mark

I'm just about coping;-) The car you drive definitely has a great effect on how you feel. Driving the NSX always felt like I was making a statement. However, it never felt like a bad one.
People just loved the look of it and I never got any nagative comments. Except for maybe one, which was something along the lines of 'Ferrari Wannabe.' I guess there will always be ill informed morons who have got nothing to say, but say it anyway.

I guess I'd sum the two cars up like this; When people look at the NSX, they're not sure what it is, whether it was or still is that expensive, are interested to find out, hence no ego attached. When you get out of a 911 most people have a perceived idea of how much they think it cost to buy, run and insure and they normally have some opinion about the kind of person who drives one based on this criteria. Basicaly, you cannot escape from a product which has become a victim of it's own success.

Anyway, I'll miss the attention the Honda got, even if was a little shallow. Racing up to Castle Coombe with three four or five other NSX's for JF or doing the parade lap at Silverstone.

I'll also miss the way it looked. The Porsche is a good looking car, but it's not unusual and quirky like the NSX, which is ironic when you consider where the engine is.
I don't think people really notice the Porsche that much. There a loads around in many different styles and to the untrained eye, a 997 looks the same as a 987 or a Cayman from the front. From the back it could be a 996. I see about 5-6 Boxsters every day and a handful of Caymans and 911s.

My car's also a polar opposite colour to the Honda. Seal grey is pretty stealth in reality and looks very smart but really doesn't shout for attention like LBB.

I haven't done much normal road driving in it yet. Just 6 hours of motorway and maybe an hour of local Somerset roads in heavy rain. First impressions are pretty good though. Great steering, fantastic seats, very compliant ride, the PSE sounds good and the sat/nav phone is really cool. It really does feel like a modern car.

Initial impressions tell me that it's not going to be as chuckable as the NSX though. This might change, but the Honda was so good on the North Devon coast road where I spend most of my time (ask PeteM about our trip back from Barnstaple last month!).

I'll certainly miss Japfest and that other chavvy meet some of the rest of you do up in the home counties........bitch bitch bitch....;-)))

Which kind of brings me on to my next point. I'll really miss these events but still intend to go to some of them, so I hope someone takes up the challenge and organises Japfest next year. It would be a shame not to do something as it's reasonably central, no less hassle to get to than a mini meet for many of us and there's a lot of new owners on the forum.
If you do decide to do it, someone needs to volunteer in the next few weeks to get it sorted.

Cheers,


James.

[AR]

I'm just about coping;-) The car you drive definitely has a great effect on how you feel. Driving the NSX always felt like I was making a statement. However, it never felt like a bad one.
People just loved the look of it and I never got any nagative comments. Except for maybe one, which was something along the lines of 'Ferrari Wannabe.' I guess there will always be ill informed morons who have got nothing to say, but say it anyway.

I guess I'd sum the two cars up like this; When people look at the NSX, they're not sure what it is, whether it was or still is that expensive, are interested to find out, hence no ego attached. When you get out of a 911 most people have a perceived idea of how much they think it cost to buy, run and insure and they normally have some opinion about the kind of person who drives one based on this criteria. Basicaly, you cannot escape from a product which has become a victim of it's own success.

Anyway, I'll miss the attention the Honda got, even if was a little shallow. Racing up to Castle Coombe with three four or five other NSX's for JF or doing the parade lap at Silverstone.

I'll also miss the way it looked. The Porsche is a good looking car, but it's not unusual and quirky like the NSX, which is ironic when you consider where the engine is.
I don't think people really notice the Porsche that much. There a loads around in many different styles and to the untrained eye, a 997 looks the same as a 987 or a Cayman from the front. From the back it could be a 996. I see about 5-6 Boxsters every day and a handful of Caymans and 911s.

My car's also a polar opposite colour to the Honda. Seal grey is pretty stealth in reality and looks very smart but really doesn't shout for attention like LBB.

I haven't done much normal road driving in it yet. Just 6 hours of motorway and maybe an hour of local Somerset roads in heavy rain. First impressions are pretty good though. Great steering, fantastic seats, very compliant ride, the PSE sounds good and the sat/nav phone is really cool. It really does feel like a modern car.

Initial impressions tell me that it's not going to be as chuckable as the NSX though. This might change, but the Honda was so good on the North Devon coast road where I spend most of my time (ask PeteM about our trip back from Barnstaple last month!).

I'll certainly miss Japfest and that other chavvy meet some of the rest of you do up in the home counties........bitch bitch bitch....;-)))

Which kind of brings me on to my next point. I'll really miss these events but still intend to go to some of them, so I hope someone takes up the challenge and organises Japfest next year. It would be a shame not to do something as it's reasonably central, no less hassle to get to than a mini meet for many of us and there's a lot of new owners on the forum.
If you do decide to do it, someone needs to volunteer in the next few weeks to get it sorted.

Cheers,


James.

James you are always welcome to stop by NSX or not NSX , Porsche or even Volvo. :)

[havoc]

Congrats James...I've had a 911-sized niggle in the back of my mind ever since I got taken around the 'ring in a (very expertly driven) 993 wide-body.

I'm sure it'll grow on you, and I suspect it'll probably cover ground quicker than you'd expect...most modern cars do that "disguising speed" thing far too well...

[AR]

Ever since I first saw a 930 slant nose...

[Lankstarr]

Oh no I'm too late... just found the ideal car for you James:
for you James:

http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/advert+search/Ne-2-4-5-6-7-8-27-44-49-53-61-64-67-103-133-146-236,N-157-203-240/advert.action?R=200951348686880&distance=33&postcode=rg24+8sz&channel=CARS&make=&model=&min_pr=20000&max_pr=&max_mileage=&vehicleYearOfManufacture=2009&vehicleRegLetter=09

You said you'd considered one of these but some nice chap has stuck a turbo on this one for you :D

[m666 edd]

That's gotta be fun to drive.