Honda vs Kaz [Archive] - NSXCB Forums

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Senninha

12-11-2009, 08:03 PM

Sudesh

12-11-2009, 08:26 PM

In my own mind I think I know the answer but I'm interested in the views of others. This post was something I've been thinking about as my NSX is now 11 years old with a full Honda stamped history, mostly from Norton Way. It was prompted by this comment in Sudesh's refresh thread ..

So the question is simple.

Q: Do I continue to get annual service stamps from Norton Way, or move to a Kaz history?

Or is the 'right' option to use Honda for the routine work, but use the expertise of Kaz as I have already done, for all other work?

And finally, does a full Honda history really count for any real world value if I can demonstrate the maintenance completed by Kaz, our very own resident Mr NSX.

Regards, Paul

Well you know my answer to this lol! Kaz all the way.

For me, the Honda stamp is fine when the car is new and in the warranty period or continued Honda warranty. But after that a great specialist [and there aren’t many for the NSX] is the way to go. Maybe why most owners have chose Honda for so long? But with Kaz coming along its a whole new world for NSX owners!!

Kaz's work is second to none and you also get the added benefit of speaking to someone who is not treating the car as a business, but a pure and simple love for NSX's which is rare.

I’m not sure about the UK but here in N.Ireland most of the proper NSX technicians are long gone from the dealers with the demise of the model. So what you get is some young mechanics that really don’t know much about the car and just following the guide on what to do, "get the car in, get it repaired and out the door"

In Southern Ireland its even worse and Ed experienced with dealers not wanting to work on the car or asking the owner to help with repair info!! That just really bad practice.

The Honda stamp I guess is good in one way for me, when you get a buyer that is not into the net and doesnt do forums, then I suppose its a plus as, all they want to see is Honda stamps and receipts, but he/she will never know the great work and enthuasism of this small community.

However as the NSX community is so small in the UK and Ireland/N.I, then I think there are alot of "visitors" that come on here seeking info or checking DIY repairs that see Kaz's great work and will start to realise that the Honda route is not as afficent as his work.

havoc

12-11-2009, 08:37 PM

I think it depends on your attitude towards the car:-

- Is it a keeper? Are you SURE?
- If not, are you happy to only sell it to an enthusiast?
- Or will you sell it to the first genuine punter with the readies?

Because if #3 is a factor, then (and I'm sure Kaz won't take any offence at this) Joe Bloggs is most likely going to want to see Honda stamps - saying "but Kaz has done all the work on it" will just result in the question "Kaz who?"...which then becomes a difficult one - you're trying to sell the car AND sell Kaz's workmanship to someone who's never heard of him, let alone met him.

Personally, I'm going to get Honda to put stamps in the book and Kaz to do anything more complicated than oil and filters. Prospective buyers will see Honda looking at it every year, and true enthusiasts will see a raft of stuff done by someone with knowledge and care, not dealer-monkeys*.

* No offence to anyone working in a dealership, but I'm sure everyone's got at least one horror-story from a dealership - I think I'm up to 3...and there's no way I'm letting #4 happen to the NSX!

12-11-2009, 09:27 PM

Paul,

Kaz for sure, those who know will know.

I DIY Fluids, filters and other bits, some quite complicated, I am sure that come selling time the spare engine will be a plus. :)

goldnsx

12-11-2009, 09:33 PM

Easy solution to this. Maybe Kaz can get a stamp himself which says NSX-specialist. The NSX community is small and people should know Kaz.

Sudesh

12-11-2009, 09:36 PM

Heres is one example I experienced.

I called 2 dealers just out of interest with regard to the coolant hose service. One dealer is a big main dealer in the UK and they had no idea on how many hoses was needed? what was I talking about? could I explain what hoses I ment and provide part numbers!!

The other was a N.I dealer who told me a similar story and that the parts alone could take months to arrive!

12-11-2009, 09:50 PM

Don't even get me started on dealers!

PS When cars get to a ceratin age( over 10 years ) , mileage ( 100K ) or have a past who cares anymore as long as it gets service by a competent person.

I am changing my oil every 3 to 4 months, I know my NSX pretty well and I am sure I can bore the next owner when the time comes with receipts from bits and thousand of pounds worth of Honda receipts from me along!

JQD84983

12-11-2009, 10:19 PM

Kaz every time.

If it goes to Honda how often do these qualified technicians work on an NSX? The dealer mine went to said they service 2 already. 3 including mine. No disrespect to the Lincoln techs but Kaz has probably forgotten more than they know.

In our small NSX world it will still have a full SH

Just my 2p

Auto Spirit

12-11-2009, 10:29 PM

Kaz all the way.

The one and only time I took my NSX to a main dealer, they put nearly a litre too much oil in during a 'routine' oil and filter change.

Kaz has done some major work on my car already (some of it posted by Kaz in the technical section) and from now on - big or small - he's the only one I would trust for any further work on my car....

Paul G

12-11-2009, 11:19 PM

In my own mind I think I know the answer but I'm interested in the views of others. This post was something I've been thinking about as my NSX is now 11 years old with a full Honda stamped history, mostly from Norton Way. It was prompted by this comment in Sudesh's refresh thread ..

So the question is simple.

Q: Do I continue to get annual service stamps from Norton Way, or move to a Kaz history?

Or is the 'right' option to use Honda for the routine work, but use the expertise of Kaz as I have already done, for all other work?

And finally, does a full Honda history really count for any real world value if I can demonstrate the maintenance completed by Kaz, our very own resident Mr NSX.

Regards, Paul

Hi Paul,

My car is 18 years old and has Honda stamps all the way, a few years back I would have said that I would stay with the main dealer approach, most reasons have been pick up on in other posts here as to why, but my views have changed....

As yet I have not had the pleasure of Kaz working on my car, however, after briefly meeting with Kaz at Silverstone and the time he took to explain things, in simple terms for me! I have no doubt that I will ask him to look after my car in the future, for as long as I keep it.

I have no doubt that if someone is looking to buy an NSX they will listen to you or any other owner giving the run down on how lucky we, and our cars! are to have the unbelievable knowledge and passion that Kaz cleary has for the NSX. I have looked at a few other cars of late and after three or four years of main dealer servicing it is clear to see that a large portion of owners move away from main dealer network and take the "specialist" route. Not many Ferrari's or Lambos over say 6 years old with FULL main dealer history!

With regards to resale value, I think we are reasonably lucky in that the NSX is pretty rare and a good example will normally fetch top end money (true value is another can of worms!) of which thats sometimes sets it's own value with supply and demand etc.

So Kaz gets my vote, and my car when the next service due, just means I need to drive the car a little further to get a quality job done ;-)

So, it's black and white really, well, in your case, grey or white!! lol

Just my thoughts!

Cheers
PG

slieve_croob

12-11-2009, 11:34 PM

Perhaps I should comment.

It is my car that Sudesh is working on: it may be useful for forum members to hear my twopence worth.

The car I own, G4NSX, 92 Senna Model, was in impeccable condition when I purchased it in 04. My precondition in buying, " the car in the best condition available, and then at a reasonable price ". All servicing had been done by accredited NSX dealers.

I have enjoyed the car at minimal running costs for 4 to 5 years, but I decided, having had a 60K /120K service carried out 37K miles, ie belts, etc etcall as recommended, by a Honda Dealer in Belfast. I discovered that they had in part time employment, due to the recession, an expert NSX mechanic previously with extensive US Acura NSX experience. A full service, no works necessary to the brakes for approx £ 1200.00 Book fully stamped up, with a text book perfect pedigree.

However, I was still aware that this vehicle perhaps had latent issues, most of which were not an immediate problem, but required addressing.

Hence my informal inquiry to Kaz mid summer. He kindly refered me to Sudesh: it is my car that Sudesh has represneted on the NSX Refresh thread. No need for me to regurtitate what he has done; he well represents himself!

It is a matter of great pleasure, that I have have usefully communicated with some key members of this forum, who in a proper community spirit, are fully motivated by their genuine interest of their vehicles, and moreover are prepared to share such knowledge in an collective fashion in an entirely unselfish way.

I refer in particular to Kaz & Sudesh team effort ,who both, but more particularly Sudesh (just becasue he is relatively local) have delved into my vehicle, to have this model, not necesssarily in perfect shape, but "...I believe simply as good as can be got...". That is good enough for me.

My vehicle has got the perfect Honda Stamps, but these are shallow in terms of the attention to detail that is not possible within the Dealership Network. The last time I spoke to car-nuts who were equally embedded in their hobby was at Goodwood in the mid 90's. Those folk were there for the love of their hobby. Our NSX buffs are the same.

To conclude, I am meeting Sudesh soon, and apart from the pain of ofloading what ever few shillings it takes to leave G4NSX " just right", I will now look forward to a drive across the Millau Bridge in Southern France next summer if possible. I beleive that Kaz & Sudesh's team effort will stand me in good stead in this regard, the UK Dealer Stamps is token. Our guys will reasonably guarantee that I will complete my round trip, in a car that is, within reason, as good as new.

I hope to collect this weekend, and run up a few miles prior to winter salting of the roads.

In any case, thanks for the collective spirt of this forum, Kaz & Sudesh being key players.

Have I made my position clear for any doubting Thomas's out there.

amo

13-11-2009, 01:05 AM

13-11-2009, 01:13 AM

anything else i need ill grab mr ary lol knows 10 x more then me
thx amo

You are too kind Amo. :)

simonprelude

13-11-2009, 09:30 AM

If I was still in ownership I would get the annual service done at Chiswick Honda still and then to a specialist / DIY for anything else.

When selling most buyers wouldn't have even entertained the car if it didn't have FHSH.

WhyOne?

13-11-2009, 09:55 AM

I agree with Simon - when I was looking for an NSX, one of my 'must haves' was a FHSH.

Having found a car with a fully stamped book, I will maintain this as long as I am fortunate enough to own the car.

However, perhaps I am lucky in having a fantastic (relatively) local Honda dealership.

I owned an S2000 for 5 years prior to buying an NSX. It was a Euro-Import and at the time I bought the car (early 2001) many UK dealers were being very sniffy about cars sourced in this way.

I happened upon Geo Collins Honda in Herstmoceaux. They are (I guess) an unusual set up as they are run in a very hands-on way by the Collins family. Peter Collins is Service Manager and when I introduced myself & my S2000 to him, he could not have been more welcoming or helpful.

They looked after my S2000 in an impecable fashion and when the roof failed 8 months out of warranty, went 'into bat' with Honda UK on my behalf & secured a goodwill replacement.

So, when I bought the NSX I spoke to Peter, he said they had the necessary expertise to look after the car (they had 2 or 3 other 'regulars') & would be delighted to do so. When I encountered a corrosion problem (bonnet, around the screen washer nozzles) he again approached Honda UK, and again secured a goodwill respray of the bonnet/headlight housings for me.

So, I am fortunate - I have a dealership I trust, who are both enthusiastic & sufficently skilled to look after my car (I have posted the picture below before, but it serves to demonstrate the level of care they take - this is how I always find my cars when I go to collect them).

None of this is in anyway detracts from my admiration for Kaz - I was fortunate to meet him at the Silverstone Classic & watched the meticulous way he works when he removed my A/C CCU for service. I have no doubt whatsoever that Kaz's knowledge of the NSX is way beyond anyone at Geo Collins. We are incredibly fortunate to have Kaz to call on to take car of our cars and, should something outside of the standard Honda service schedule need attention, I will ask Kaz to take care of it without hesitation.

markc

13-11-2009, 10:26 AM

Some excellent replies to an interesting question.

A couple of observations if I may...

Until Kaz came among us (oo-err Mrs) there were no dedicated NSX specialists so we didn't have a viable option to the HUK NSX approved dealer network.

Eventually cars no longer in production are not only better served by specialists but the market recognises this i.e. buyers place more value on work carried out by specialists than by manufacturers. How many of you would buy an Jaguar E Type or Lotus Cortina and expect it to a) have full manufacturer service history or b) believe that was a good thing for these examples.

The question is when does the manufacturer to specialist transition occur... 10yrs, 20yrs? I think the answer is, between 5-10yrs and only when a viable specialist network exisits... we may at last be at that point :)

If I was still in ownership I would get the annual service done at Chiswick Honda still and then to a specialist / DIY for anything else.

Personally I think this is bit cheeky and a unfair on the specialists. I agree with you that a lot of buyers think this way but as I've said only up to a certain vehicle age, which varies by vehicle.

When selling most buyers wouldn't have even entertained the car if it didn't have FHSH.

This is a peculiar UK thing bought about by a combination of years of over regulation of the dealer network and under regulation of the "specialist" (man with hammer) one. In Germany for example the specialist network is very well respected and saleability is largely unaffected by non manufacturer service history.

By the way my car will be going to Kaz for future work :)

Cheers

Mark

Dragonlady

13-11-2009, 06:11 PM

So, when I bought the NSX I spoke to Peter, he said they had the necessary expertise to look after the car (they had 2 or 3 other 'regulars') & would be delighted to do so. When I encountered a corrosion problem (bonnet, around the screen washer nozzles) he again approached Honda UK, and again secured a goodwill respray of the bonnet/headlight housings for me.

You are lucky to have found a dealer that appears to care and will support you. I had a paint issue with my Accord Coupe, in fact the bonnet was completely peppered and not as a result of stone chips. The worse thing was that the car was only 3 years old, our dealer at Honda just followed the party line, and we got nowhere.

For me personally main dealerships nowadays carry-out servicing by numbers, if it isn't in their manual to look at then they won't. Also if the fault doesn't immediately pop-up on the fault diagnosis they don't have a clue where to start looking, and then you are in a position of trial and error which can be expensive. For rare cars like the NSX where there aren't many trained technicians left in some cases you come to expect this. However when the same applies to main stream cars it is really worrying.

I had an experience of this myself lately when I took my '09 company car into a main dealer because the headlights when set on auto came on in bright sunlight, and didn't come on in poor light. The answer I got was "Well the computer hasn't registered a fault however there appears to be a control inside the car which appears to adjust the lights." When he pointed out "the control" I nearly laughed when I told him that switch controlled the interior lights only :doh:

So for me I would rather have a specialist service my own pride and joy, rather than some one who can only go on what the book says.

Regards Sharon

13-11-2009, 06:33 PM

The car I own, G4NSX, 92 Senna Model, was in impeccable condition when I purchased it in 04.

Great write up, but what do you mean by Senna model???

JQD84983

13-11-2009, 06:40 PM

my 2p
kaz all the way if im not going to my local garage not honda
i cant understand if anyone is geting there oil changed and filter from honda
honda stamp not worth the money
i have all my bill spent too much on her but mines a keeper for my kids
im not great but can and will do my own oil and filter change anything else i need ill grab mr ary lol knows 10 x more then me
thx amo

And of course Amo to the untrained eye you can pass your car off as Standard from the factory. :)

But I agree with you once you get over a certain age the Honda stamp is not much use. Plus most people buying an NSX will ask about it on here!

Senninha

13-11-2009, 09:16 PM

........... this is how I always find my cars when I go to collect them...........

What are they trying to say about you Ian? ;)

... answers on a post card

Sudesh

14-11-2009, 09:24 PM

Hi Seamues!

Thanks for the very nice write up and reply. I never expect this sort of thing as our NSX community is really small here in N.Ireland, and I dont take on the work for the money, but more so for the love of the car as I'm sure ED can back up also.

I hope you had a good trip home tonite, your S2000 is stunning also and would love a run it some time as its one of the Honda models I never had a drive in.

Keep me informed on your friends move to the NSX discussed, and as I said, I will gladly carry out and inspection FOC.

I'm planning a trip to the Slieve Donard Hotel, so will give you a call before hand.

Thank you kindly,

Sudesh.............

Perhaps I should comment.

It is my car that Sudesh is working on: it may be useful for forum members to hear my twopence worth.

The car I own, G4NSX, 92 Senna Model, was in impeccable condition when I purchased it in 04. My precondition in buying, " the car in the best condition available, and then at a reasonable price ". All servicing had been done by accredited NSX dealers.

I have enjoyed the car at minimal running costs for 4 to 5 years, but I decided, having had a 60K /120K service carried out 37K miles, ie belts, etc etcall as recommended, by a Honda Dealer in Belfast. I discovered that they had in part time employment, due to the recession, an expert NSX mechanic previously with extensive US Acura NSX experience. A full service, no works necessary to the brakes for approx £ 1200.00 Book fully stamped up, with a text book perfect pedigree.

However, I was still aware that this vehicle perhaps had latent issues, most of which were not an immediate problem, but required addressing.

Hence my informal inquiry to Kaz mid summer. He kindly refered me to Sudesh: it is my car that Sudesh has represneted on the NSX Refresh thread. No need for me to regurtitate what he has done; he well represents himself!

It is a matter of great pleasure, that I have have usefully communicated with some key members of this forum, who in a proper community spirit, are fully motivated by their genuine interest of their vehicles, and moreover are prepared to share such knowledge in an collective fashion in an entirely unselfish way.

I refer in particular to Kaz & Sudesh team effort ,who both, but more particularly Sudesh (just becasue he is relatively local) have delved into my vehicle, to have this model, not necesssarily in perfect shape, but "...I believe simply as good as can be got...". That is good enough for me.

My vehicle has got the perfect Honda Stamps, but these are shallow in terms of the attention to detail that is not possible within the Dealership Network. The last time I spoke to car-nuts who were equally embedded in their hobby was at Goodwood in the mid 90's. Those folk were there for the love of their hobby. Our NSX buffs are the same.

To conclude, I am meeting Sudesh soon, and apart from the pain of ofloading what ever few shillings it takes to leave G4NSX " just right", I will now look forward to a drive across the Millau Bridge in Southern France next summer if possible. I beleive that Kaz & Sudesh's team effort will stand me in good stead in this regard, the UK Dealer Stamps is token. Our guys will reasonably guarantee that I will complete my round trip, in a car that is, within reason, as good as new.

I hope to collect this weekend, and run up a few miles prior to winter salting of the roads.

In any case, thanks for the collective spirt of this forum, Kaz & Sudesh being key players.

Have I made my position clear for any doubting Thomas's out there.

nigel

16-11-2009, 01:56 AM

The level of history, input and hands on experience with Kaz concerning the development, design and true engineering of the NSX from it's conception is unmatched in the world less Mr. Uehara and I suspect he even stands at least beside if not just behind Kaz.
To be lucky enough to live in the UK, and have the resources of someone like Kaz as well is just ignorant to not take full advantage of and learn from.
We have several "NSX gurus" here in the colonies that when they speak one should take seriously buy no one close in the ability of the "Kaz master", in my and many others opinions.
He may not have the "Honda" stamp but if it weren't for a very few like him there probibly wouldn't be a Honda NSX to give your money to the dealerships for.
Thanks to you Kaz and we appreciate your help, interest and hopefully your continued support with our problems, questions and just interested bantering for a long time to come.
I surely do.
All the best, always.

Cheers
nigel

Mulsanne

16-11-2009, 08:43 PM

In at the deep end here, with my first post. Here goes.....

For anyone worried about having Kaz's (or Sudesh's for that matter) stamp in the book instead of a main dealer maybe my opinion might be of some value.

I am one of what I suspect is the silent majority on nxscb. People who frequent this forum with a view to purchasing an NSX in the years to come. A potential customer if your car is for sale in the future maybe. I don't post because I'm at the very start of the learning curve, but I do read a lot of threads carefully.

I particularly pay close attention to threads talking about the ownership experience, and that's where Kaz's name crops up a lot, and always in a good light.

If a car had service history from Kaz in place of main dealer stamps I would see that as a very strong plus point, not a shortfall. And I wont be the only silent onlooker who thinks like that. Don't underestimate how quick the word will spread.

I don't know much about the world of NSX yet, but I do know a little about what goes on in Porsche circles. In that realm specialist are everything once a car goes out of production. Everyone soon gets to know who the good, the bad and the ugly are. There's no reason why the NSX world should be any different, it's just a much smaller world and up until recently there hasn't been much in the way of Specialist to get excited about. In the medium to long term I don't think you need to worry about non main dealer service affecting resale values.

Kaz-kzukNA1

16-11-2009, 09:10 PM

Hi, all.

Thank you for kind and generous comment. As the purpose/base of the services is different, I think it is almost impossible to compare the main dealer VS specialist. It would be nice if the main dealers and the specialists can work together to help NSX community. In some part of Japan, that is what’s happening at the moment.

I'm quite sure not everyone will agree with my recommendation or opinion but that is good as I will learn something new from different opinions.
In fact, even after 15 years of ownership, I still learn something new almost every day.

All of my personal opinions and views are based on what I learnt through 10 years working closely with NSX, at the same time, 20 years in the pinnacle of motor racing and most importantly, the actual ownership of this super car for 15 years with 125,000miles plus looking after several different NSX for a while including Type-R and AT models.

Although I can’t disclose some of the information, I just hope I can help some of the NSX owners.

As I told some of the members here, one of my aim is to see your son and daughter driving your NSX. Please look after your NSX and if you are thinking of becoming the owner, I hope we can help you in understanding this car through NSXCB.

Regards,
Kaz

NSXGB

17-11-2009, 08:39 AM

....makes me want to go out and buy another one...:)